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immersive code programs - Dev Bootcamp, Hack Reactor, App academy, General Assembly

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FINALFANTASYDOG

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http://www.hackreactor.com/blog/Are-Programming-Bootcamps-Worth-the-cost

For those who need to get up to speed on the topic. Immersive coding programs that you pay 10k+ for 3 months and come out with the skills they say would get you to do entry level programmer jobs, the time spent in classes is in a professional team style environment.

I've just lost my job and kinda unhappy with the amount of jobs and low pay that for my skill set. Looking for what to do, highly edging towards https://generalassemb.ly/ web development course.

Before I go plop down 12K, I know we have a large compsci community on here, I'm getting older and don't have another 2 - 4 years to waste before working again. efficiency beats out price(unless the price is just absurd) What does Neogaf think of these?
 
I'm no pro, so what do I know, but those seem like steep prices. You could probably work and take community college/local university courses for much cheaper if that's an option.
 
I can't speak for those programs linked in the OP, but I would often get calls from local companies with offers similar to these programs on a weekly basis. I did some research and it turns out that they often promise more than what they actually deliver. You're probably better off paying for university courses or just self teaching.
 
From what I read, unless you already have some programming skills, a HUGE interest in learning and dedicate a lot of time outside of the courses to continue learning, these wont really do anything for you. These dudes often over promise.

You can instead for example take CodeAcademy, Codeschool, etc. and then when you have some major questions you can either post to StackOverflow or try something like https://www.codementor.io/

Either way, it will come out a lot cheaper than those bootcamps.
 
Overpriced and overhyped. Learn in a Community College class and free online tutorials and then do by practice. Get into a baseline IT job and then stream over into programming.
 
Please don't use these. In the end you will have to pay with your time, so it's silly to also pay that much with your money and not be enrolled in a University or Community College.

Look OpenCourseWare. Many Uni's contribute, there is even a consortium behind that initiative and you can search for classes here. http://www.ocwconsortium.org/courses/

MIT Open Courses
Yale Open Courses
http://cs50.tv/2013/fall/

http://academicearth.org/
https://www.coursera.org/

For resources
https://github.com/vhf/free-programming-books/blob/master/free-programming-books.md
http://programming-motherfucker.com/
 
I'm not sure if my experience was the same as others, but I took a grand total of 2 courses dedicated to programming when I went through my CS curriculum. C++ 1 and 2. After that we would have to get a primer booklet on the language we would be using for that particular course (LISP, OCaml, Verilog as a sample of what I had to figure out how to use).

I recall a lot of my time writing proofs and a lot of my Junior/Senior courses being cross listed with EE.

From what I understand about those bootcamp courses, is that they will give you training in the technologies that are being used right now in various industries. Take that for what it's worth. It could help you land a job, but you might be better served taking evening programming courses at your local CC.
 
I only paid twice that price for an entire master's degree. 12k+ worth of real cash with no accredited degree in the end? Steer way, way clear of that.

Yes, you're going to need experience if you want to change careers like that. However -- especially if you don't have any industry experience -- most companies are probably going to want some kind of traditional degree as well. That requirement may vary depending on whether you can put together and demonstrate a kick ass portfolio of work, but you don't need an overpriced boot camp course to do that.

Start with the recommended free resources first. If you feel the need to pay actual money to learn, there's plenty of courses on sites like Udemy or Tutsplus, both of which have lots of classes for far less cost (I think that Tutsplus Premium is only $20 a month for access to any course they have.)
 
I had a negative experience with several of these type of bootcamp style schools. Of the ones listed Hack Reactor was the one I personally dealt with. They were very good at selling the idea that you'd get a job right out of the gate. But upon further investigating and talking with previous alumni I found some interesting things out.

They tend to sell their students to near by companies before you "graduate." That usually means they have preagreed on your income and Hack Reactor or other schools get a cut of your potential earnings. It's not like getting a head hunter bonus. They are straight up getting money for the work you do after you've left them. I don't know how long those agreements last, but it seems to coincide with performance and pay scales.

I'd be cautious of getting too wrapped up in the idea of one of these schools.
 
effingvic said:
From what I read, unless you already have some programming skills, a HUGE interest in learning and dedicate a lot of time outside of the courses to continue learning, these wont really do anything for you.
Click to expand...

This is likely true. I don't do coding but years ago I took a similar 9 month course in audio engineering which was around the same price. It was basically the maximum they could charge based on what you could get from financial aid. Going in I had a pretty firm grasp on the basics because I had spent years learning on my own so I ended up getting a lot out of the course and it did get me a job at a large recording studio. However, I was the exception and anyone in the class who didn't know the basics likely got almost nothing out of the course and you're not good enough after such a short time to actually get a job.

However I realize that the fields are not similar so it's not a perfect parallel but I was just reinforcing what effingvic had said.
 
I think it comes down to whether or not you would be able to stick to a education regiment of your own design that is self-driven vs. one of these bootcamps (which are instructor-driven). It's easy enough to say "just use online resources and teach yourself!" , unless you are the kind of person that is going to fuck around and not actually spend time teaching yourself anything. If you are that kind of person then go to the bootcamp and get a relevant skill drilled into your head.

You'll still need to follow that learning up with applied effort and your own projects to build a presentable/respectable github so that employers will take your application seriously and give you an interview. You're going to also need to learn how to interview for a programmer job as well. You'll have to fight hard just to get your foot in the door for an interview with no experience, but with a reasonable resume and portfoilio of your own work it's possible.

What you should not do is think that going to this bootcamp will put you in an easy position to get a job. You need to look at it as a purely educational option.
 
BeardyChan said:
I had a negative experience with several of these type of bootcamp style schools. Of the ones listed Hack Reactor was the one I personally dealt with. They were very good at selling the idea that you'd get a job right out of the gate. But upon further investigating and talking with previous alumni I found some interesting things out.

They tend to sell their students to near by companies before you "graduate." That usually means they have preagreed on your income and Hack Reactor or other schools get a cut of your potential earnings. It's not like getting a head hunter bonus. They are straight up getting money for the work you do after you've left them. I don't know how long those agreements last, but it seems to coincide with performance and pay scales.

I'd be cautious of getting too wrapped up in the idea of one of these schools.
Click to expand...

Yeah, the general assembly which I'm looking at the instructor said "honestly, the pay out the door isn't good, but it's getting your feet in the door and building off that job experience" The fact I'm not being told the wonders of a 6 figure salary make me feel like he's honest.

Hack Reactor ad's almost seem fraudy to me "$18k~ and 3 months of education, 110K salary" "We can do it because the university's don't really know how to teach what really needs to be learnt. but we do"
 
I work at a software consultant in SF where we promote and practice pair programming, and in the last year or so I've worked with a number of people (maybe 5 or so over the last year) who have come out of such programs both in SF and in Boston. Everyone I've worked with that came out of these programs was very knowledgable and seemed to get a lot out of the programs they took. A lot of the programs didn't charge upfront, but instead took a commission when you were placed in a job.

The one thing in common with all these people were that they liked writing good, quality code, and weren't necessarily in it for the money, but because they enjoyed the type of work. I think that's a pretty important value, and something I think a lot of these programs have been promoting.

That said, it seems like there's become a market for these programs, so I'd make sure to talk to people who've gone through them first, and don't just join any old one, as I'm sure some are scams.

Feel free to PM me questions.
 
don't do this. you'll get a better deal at a community college or by teaching yourself via online courses.
 
There's was a thread here a few months back on schools like this and I remember the consensus being that they were fishy and curved their advertised statistics in many of the same ways that profit schools do.

I've never tried it myself so I can't say for sure but my gut tells me that you can get further with a semester of community college and a modest GitHub page.
 
MrGummy said:
10k seems steep

Use websites like:
teamtreehouse.com
codecademy.com
codeschool.com
Click to expand...

Some people like a structured live environment with real teachers and deadlines imposed.
10k doesn't seem steep to me tbh. Understand that this is 8 hours a day (at least the ones I'm familiar with). When you look at how much students spend for a course that is 1 hour 3 days a week?

Edit:
Aurongel said:
There's was a thread here a few months back on schools like this and I remember the consensus being that they were fishy and curved their advertised statistics in many of the same ways that profit schools do.

I've never tried it myself so I can't say for sure but my gut tells me that you can get further with a semester of community college and a modest GitHub page.
Click to expand...

From the ones I've had knowledge of, these types of camps focus on what's being utilized in the business world right now so you can hit the ground running with the 'hot' technology and dev tools. Their entire purpose is to get you up to speed on the latest and greatest. CC's will teach you fundamentals and theory. Which they should imo.

I honestly think that these types of bootcamps aren't meant for newbies. They're meant for people who need to get up to speed.
 
RiccochetJ said:
I honestly think that these types of bootcamps aren't meant for newbies. They're meant for people who need to get up to speed.
Click to expand...

The course I'm looking at has 50 hours+ of pre-course work, including code academy. essentially you are expected to know the fundamentals of coding on day one.

I'm much much more motivated by being in a team intensive environment which are factors to consider into this.
 
If all you want to do is get up to speed..but this is not the proper way to go about it. You'll still miss a lot while hitting just the major sections and techniques. I know people in IT Pro/Administration field who do these to get certifications, but their performance levels in the actual job fails to compare to those who took their time to learn the stuff properly. Nothing beats experience ofcourse.

But if all you want is an opportunity to get an interview, then work on what you've learned, its probably worth it.
 
FINALFANTASYDOG said:
http://www.hackreactor.com/blog/Are-Programming-Bootcamps-Worth-the-cost

For those who need to get up to speed on the topic. Immersive coding programs that you pay 10k+ for 3 months and come out with the skills they say would get you to do entry level programmer jobs, the time spent in classes is in a professional team style environment.

I've just lost my job and kinda unhappy with the amount of jobs and low pay that for my skill set. Looking for what to do, highly edging towards https://generalassemb.ly/ web development course.

Before I go plop down 12K, I know we have a large compsci community on here, I'm getting older and don't have another 2 - 4 years to waste before working again. efficiency beats out price(unless the price is just absurd) What does Neogaf think of these?
Click to expand...

Damn, everyone is trying to do web dev.

Anyways, don't spend 12k as others have stated there are other ways. Local educational offerings are something to look into (i.e. community colleges etc)
 
params7 said:
you'll still miss a lot while hitting just the major sections and techniques

But if all you want is an opportunity to get an interview, then work on what you've learned, its probably worth it.
Click to expand...

Heh, strangely enough the instructor actually listed this out as a plus in the interview session:

to paraphrase:

"Other classes teach you things you don't need to do, we have the philosophy that you learn it when you need it, and don't go down rabbit holes filling your brain with things you don't need to solve your problem" Those things you can learn about later or when you need them.
 
Learn concurrent queue. You can thank me later.

School and online stuff is nice and all, bur it can't beat actual experience. Knowing the basics for an entry position is always good.
 
FINALFANTASYDOG said:
http://www.hackreactor.com/blog/Are-Programming-Bootcamps-Worth-the-cost

For those who need to get up to speed on the topic. Immersive coding programs that you pay 10k+ for 3 months and come out with the skills they say would get you to do entry level programmer jobs, the time spent in classes is in a professional team style environment.

I've just lost my job and kinda unhappy with the amount of jobs and low pay that for my skill set. Looking for what to do, highly edging towards https://generalassemb.ly/ web development course.

Before I go plop down 12K, I know we have a large compsci community on here, I'm getting older and don't have another 2 - 4 years to waste before working again. efficiency beats out price(unless the price is just absurd) What does Neogaf think of these?
Click to expand...

Age really shouldnt be a factor. I went back to school this past semester for a second bachelors in a STEM field scared I would be really older than everybody(I'm 24) and there really is no difference. In fact, there are plenty of people in their 30's or even 40's in my classes. 2-4 years might seem like a lot, but it is really nothing in the grand scheme of things.
 
RiccochetJ said:
Some people like a structured live environment with real teachers and deadlines imposed.
10k doesn't seem steep to me tbh. Understand that this is 8 hours a day (at least the ones I'm familiar with). When you look at how much students spend for a course that is 1 hour 3 days a week?
Click to expand...

Yeah, so use Coursera or go to a community college.
 
For everyone that's saying learn this stuff on your own, how do you actually go about getting interviews/jobs being self taught?

Most tech jobs I've looked at list a BA/BE in Computer Science as a prerequisite.
 
Raife said:
For everyone that's saying learn this stuff on your own, how do you actually go about getting interviews/jobs being self taught?

Most tech jobs I've looked at list a BA/BE in Computer Science as a prerequisite.
Click to expand...

Bumping from the dead, as I'm curious what is typical among CS types to prove their knowledge and ability pre-interview (particularly for those that didn't get a BA/BS in CS). How do they go about landing the interview when they are self-taught?
 
I work at a company that runs a developer bootcamp (.NET) here in Sydney. We basically looked at what was happening in the States and replicated that here. It's done pretty well and being so close to it I've seen how the students developed over the course. It definitely benefits you in ways a normal Uni course can't. Personally after seeing one for myself I'd recommend it.
 
Mii said:
Bumping from the dead, as I'm curious what is typical among CS types to prove their knowledge and ability pre-interview (particularly for those that didn't get a BA/BS in CS). How do they go about landing the interview when they are self-taught?
Click to expand...

A former employer interviewed a candidate from one of these boot camps. The main reason they did was because the dude was from one of these programs, they wanted to see if they provided cadidates with the chops to pass the interview.

He didn't get the job

My overall belief is that if you want to do this stuff, you can. You don't need school, it helps without a doubt, dat credential, but if you have the drive to learn on your own, the resources are out there. You do stuff, build knowledge, build confidence, perhaps build up pieces of work you can show, and you can find work. That's essentially what I did.
 
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