• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

Impeachment trial kicks off this week as Democrats seek to tie Trump to Capitol riots

sw0mp_d0nk3y

Member
Jun 3, 2013
960
1,439
680
The impeachment trial starts this week. Although most people think Trump is guilty, almost nobody thinks he will be convicted by the Senate. Everyone knows the details, and the world has moved on, so this impeachment trial is pretty much a nothing burger. If anything, it will give Trump and his supporters one last thing that they can spin into a victory.

"Even Republican senators open to voting to convict Trump say they recognize the votes aren't there for a guilty verdict, which would require 17 Republican senators to join every Democrat to vote for conviction. Last month, 45 of the Senate's 50 Republicans voted in favor of a procedural motion to dismiss the trial on constitutional grounds."

"Trump was impeached because Democrats control the House. He will be acquitted because there are not enough Republican votes to convict him. It’s got nothing to do with any legal analysis."
 

HeresJohnny

Member
Mar 14, 2018
10,494
24,627
790
It's a waste of time and resources to impeach a president who is no longer in office. On top of that, they don't have the votes. And even further still, I don't think the public has much patience for more TDS nonsense when they elected these people to fix the economy and get shots in arms.

Now, what I do believe is that it will open doors to impeachment on others who have said and done similar things who are still in office, like Maxine Waters.
 
Last edited:

TheContact

Gold Member
Jan 22, 2016
6,471
6,140
860
It's a waste of time and resources to impeach a president who is no longer in office.

here's the problem i have with this.
it's setting a precedent that you can commit impeachable offenses in the last days of your office since you know you can't be held accountable once you're no longer in office
that cannot be acceptable. trump needs to be held accountable for his actions.
 

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
Jul 7, 2020
6,484
7,697
700
Democrats need to include a secret ballot in the trial rules. You do that, Trump is convicted and everyone knows it. Criminal and civil jury trials have juries vote in secret. Tell me why they shouldn't.
 

TheContact

Gold Member
Jan 22, 2016
6,471
6,140
860
Trump did nothing wrong.

whether he's right or wrong which can be argued both ways, there are republicans who aren't even considering this and are voting not to convict simply because they believe it's unconstitutional (it's not--the constitution doesn't mention this but there is precedent) and not even consider trump's actions.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Shodan09

Halo is Dead

Member
May 20, 2018
7,269
13,020
780
I think this is a waste of time but Trump has made his bed. Im not the believer in him orchestrating a coup but he did fan the flames of hysteria. No successful coup attempt would happen without military support. This was an angry mob that lost their cool and acted in desperation to a lie. If they convict him I won't feel sorry for him, all he had to do was admit defeat once he exhausted every legal route in the courts.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KOS MOS

belmarduk

Member
Nov 19, 2019
2,538
3,773
620
Good.
Trump won't be impeached but we will have Republicans on record as handwaving his incitement of insurrection. They'll wear it like a scarlet letter in future elections.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OnionSnake

OnionSnake

Banned
Dec 29, 2020
2,380
2,727
535
Good.
Trump won't be impeached but we will have Republicans on record as handwaving his incitement of insurrection. They'll wear it like a scarlet letter in future elections.
The Republican Party is going to have that orange stain for years. Going to take some serious soul searching to win back moderate America
 
  • Like
Reactions: belmarduk

UncleMeat

Member
Jan 21, 2016
1,066
788
480
Oklahoma City
The poll, conducted from Wednesday evening through Thursday morning, shows 63 percent of registered voters believe Trump is at least “somewhat” responsible “for the events that led to” the chaos at the Capitol. Roughly half of respondents, 49 percent, say Trump is “very” responsible.

Being somewhat responsible and being guilty of inciting the riot is not the same thing.
 

HoodWinked

Member
Jun 30, 2010
6,420
1,841
960
Earth
Democrats need to include a secret ballot in the trial rules. You do that, Trump is convicted and everyone knows it. Criminal and civil jury trials have juries vote in secret. Tell me why they shouldn't.
Unlikely they just want to get on with it. Anyone that is intellectually honest knows this is a complete waste of time. The hysterics involved with it are so blantantly political. If democrats knew the cancel mob wasn't able to see their votes they would vote with more integrity and not someone with a gun to thier head.
 

BouncyFrag

Member
Feb 10, 2014
9,563
8,845
855
Pretty sure there’s more important things for congress to tackle than this hollow political posturing that won’t even succeed.
They were more than happy to downplay covid when sham impeachment #1 took place. At least they aren’t impeaching him over something Biden had done and admitted to on camera.
 
  • Fire
Reactions: DeepEnigma

sackings

Member
Jul 22, 2020
695
1,873
395
Just consider this. A democraft Senator is "presiding" over the case (its supposed to be Roberts, Chief Justice of SCOTUS). So, the judge is also the jury. In what universe could this could be considered legitimate? Even if they got a conviction, it wouldnt hold up come 2024. Democrats know this. The real goal of this trial is to make Trump + Maga toxic in the eyes of the public. Expect AOC level theatrics and bullshittery
 

OrtizTwelve

Member
Aug 11, 2020
644
1,349
515
USA
Democrats should have delayed this until later and focus 100% on COVID relief.

All this does is give Trump more presence in the minds of the American people and make him to be a martyr.

The best thing the Democrats can do is just FORGET about Trump -- he's already been banished from all forms of social media anyways.
 
Jan 9, 2018
1,457
2,456
470
Such a boring waste of time. This is all they have, these supposed betters who can't do anything without the Trump bogeyman brought back to grandstand before. Give me a break. America is essentially dead like this... all we have is a confused old man who signs blindly onto the agenda of a million managerial-class middlewits.
 

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
Jul 7, 2020
6,484
7,697
700
Trump did nothing wrong.
whether he's right or wrong which can be argued both ways, there are republicans who aren't even considering this and are voting not to convict simply because they believe it's unconstitutional (it's not--the constitution doesn't mention this but there is precedent) and not even consider trump's actions.
They're just spineless and scared of the base and scared of Trump. He's be convicted handily in a secret ballot.
 

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
Jul 7, 2020
6,484
7,697
700
Just consider this. A democraft Senator is "presiding" over the case (its supposed to be Roberts, Chief Justice of SCOTUS). So, the judge is also the jury. In what universe could this could be considered legitimate? Even if they got a conviction, it wouldnt hold up come 2024. Democrats know this. The real goal of this trial is to make Trump + Maga toxic in the eyes of the public. Expect AOC level theatrics and bullshittery
Chief Justice only presides if the person is still a sitting president. President Pro Tempore presides all other impeachments. This has always been the case and is in the constitution.
 
Last edited:

belmarduk

Member
Nov 19, 2019
2,538
3,773
620
Its best to get this shit over with quickly. Its worth doing to get Republicans on the record as being ok with insurrection but this is not what Democrats were elected to do. Lets work on Coronavirus relief!
 
Oct 15, 2019
774
1,472
390
New York
They're just spineless and scared of the base and scared of Trump. He's be convicted handily in a secret ballot.
I actually agree on this point, but not for the same reason as you. A significant portion of the Senate Republicans HATE Trump, and only go along with him because their base supports him. If you arranged a secret ballot, I guarantee they would vote him out, even if they truly felt he had done nothing wrong.

It'd be like if Denocrats had the opportunity to ensure AOC never held office again. You hold a secret vote and she's gone in a heartbeat, just because they don't like her ideology encroaching on the status quo.

You and I have already had this discussion on secret votes and accountability though, so I'll leave it there.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OnionSnake
Feb 3, 2015
2,483
1,762
575
Good.
Trump won't be impeached but we will have Republicans on record as handwaving his incitement of insurrection. They'll wear it like a scarlet letter in future elections.
What we have learned from the conservative response to this: you can commit impeachable offenses, just as long as you do it just before you leave office.

Honestly the timeline of events against trumps tweets should be enough to impeach this fucker. His reaction to watching what was happening was so fucked.
 

BadBurger

Gold Member
Nov 6, 2019
2,526
4,125
545
here's the problem i have with this.
it's setting a precedent that you can commit impeachable offenses in the last days of your office since you know you can't be held accountable once you're no longer in office
that cannot be acceptable. trump needs to be held accountable for his actions.

Yep. Congress has to do their job. Trump incited a mob to go murder them. What are they supposed to do, just say "oh well he's no longer sitting president so let's give him a pass"?.
 

JORMBO

Darkness no more
Mar 5, 2009
12,568
21,590
1,900
I watched all episodes from season 1 last year. The plot for season 1 wasn’t that great and the ending was predictable right from the start. Lame cast of characters too. I will be skipping season 2. I heard the main character was already booted off the show so it’s just a few of the same boring side characters from season 1 arguing amongst each other again. I heard it even ends the same way as season 1. Not worth the 40+ hour commitment again.
 
Last edited:

haxan7

Volunteered as Tribute
May 9, 2016
8,192
19,005
885
h*ck
I watched all episodes from season 1 last year. The plot for season 1 wasn’t that great and the ending was predictable right from the start. Lame cast of characters too. I will be skipping season 2. I heard the main character was already booted off the show so it’s just a few of the same boring side characters from season 1 arguing amongst each other again. I heard it even ends the same way as season 1. Not worth the 40+ hour commitment again.
 
  • Fire
Reactions: Tesseract

Bernd Lauert

Member
Apr 15, 2018
2,858
8,560
640
Yep. Congress has to do their job. Trump incited a mob to go murder them. What are they supposed to do, just say "oh well he's no longer sitting president so let's give him a pass"?.

Sure Jan GIF
 

sw0mp_d0nk3y

Member
Jun 3, 2013
960
1,439
680
Again, Trump did literally nothing wrong. 1A is still a thing. Not a single real court would declare him guilty.
The Senate isn't a real court. They would convict him if there was a few more democrats and moderate republicans, but this senate definitely won't.
 

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
Jul 7, 2020
6,484
7,697
700
Again, Trump did literally nothing wrong. 1A is still a thing. Not a single real court would declare him guilty.
First amendment protections are strong but they have their limits. Shouting fire in a crowded building is not protected, not because you're not allowed to talk about fire, but because you know that it's a lie that will put people in harm's way and create a panic.

That's exactly what Trump did, he lied in order to create a panic and our people in harm's way. Now to turn that into a conviction in civil court you'd have to establish that Trump had a pretty good understanding of the reaction he would get, and was at least somewhat aware of how completely untrue the fraud claims were, and proving that in criminal court beyond a reasonable doubt is certainly challenging, but if you did he would be considered guilty.

And circumstantially it's clearly the case. Trump's first moves after the rioters breached the Capitol were to place calls to try to coordinate stalling the vote until the following night, suggesting this was part of a larger planned effort to disrupt the certification of the vote. Afterwards he both praised the rioters and said "this is what happens," showing he understands the relationship between what he's saying and what they did. There are also things like the DoD memo denying the national guard riot gear and Trump's refusal to deploy the national guard even after the breach.

And impeachment isn't criminal court. There's no beyond a reasonable doubt, no need for a unanimous jury. We can apply that common sense standard and convict. There's no way you can look at me with a straight face and say he "did nothing wrong." He knew what he was doing, obviously.
 
Last edited:

ManofOne

Plus Member
Nov 4, 2020
5,582
12,396
820
First amendment protections are strong but they have their limits. Shouting fire in a crowded building is not protected, not because you're not allowed to talk about fire, but because you know that it's a lie that will put people in harm's way and create a panic.

That's exactly what Trump did
. Now to turn that into a conviction in civil court you'd have to establish that Trump had a pretty good understanding of the reaction he would get, and was at least somewhat aware of how completely untrue the fraud claims were, and proving that in criminal court beyond a reasonable doubt is certainly challenging, but if you did he would be considered guilty.

This logic is dangerous. If this is the litmus test to get people in jail.

You do know that attempts at impeaching him now are unconstitutional as well.
 

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
Jul 7, 2020
6,484
7,697
700
This logic is dangerous. If this is the litmus test to get people in jail.
It always has been. The "shouting fire in a crowded theater" thing is literally a cliche universally understood as delineating the line between protected speech and a criminal act.

You do know that attempts at impeaching him now are unconstitutional as well.
Nonsense. 1) He was impeached while still in office. 2) There is nothing in the constitution that bars convicting a person after they leave office and 3) William Belknap was impeached after resigning, so there is precedent.
 
Last edited:

SF Kosmo

...please disperse...
Jul 7, 2020
6,484
7,697
700
The 49% that think Trump is "very responsible" just means that (at least) 49% is stupid and gullible and will believe whatever MSM narrative tells them to believe. Not exactly new news though.
Do you think the Capitol riot would have occurred if Trump had not lied about the election results and voter fraud? How could anyone claim Trump isn't responsible for that?

Criminal culpability is more complicated, I get it, but in the basic sense, it should be obvious to 100% of everyone that it never would have happened if he wasn't being a stupid asshole, and he probably knew there was at the very least a pretty great risk when he said those things.
 
Last edited:

prag16

Banned
Jul 12, 2012
12,186
4,386
860
Do you think the Capitol riot would have occurred if Trump had not lied about the election results and voter fraud? How could anyone claim Trump isn't responsible for that?

Criminal culpability is more complicated, I get it, but in the basic sense, it should be obvious to 100% of everyone that it never would have happened if he wasn't being a stupid asshole, and he probably knew there was at the very least a pretty great risk when he said those things.

george costanza seinfeld GIF


And kidding aside around 30-40% of the country probably still agrees with him. He did not deliberately deceive people to coax them into violent action. He didn't organize the 1/6 rally (he announced he'd show up and do a speech after the grassroots had already planned to show up en masse) and he instructed exactly no one to do anything violent. Criminal culpability isn't complicated. It's 100% clear that there is none. Sure, the idea of "impeachability" is indeed more complicated, but this sets a dangerous precedent. And is probably actually bad for the Dems in the end politically. People want to move on from Trump. They can't do it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: crazepharmacist

ManofOne

Plus Member
Nov 4, 2020
5,582
12,396
820
It always has been. The "shouting fire in a crowded theater" thing is literally a cliche universally understood as delineating the line between protected speech and a criminal act.

the problem with your argument is you’re aligning what he said with “shouting fire in a crowded theatre.” If that your testing methodology to have impeached then via that same methodology over half of congress should be removed from their positions.

It is a flawed to even think this and you’re smart enough to know better.