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Impeachment trial kicks off this week as Democrats seek to tie Trump to Capitol riots

Bitmap Frogs

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There still wasn't a systemic risk for democracy and the systems in place. There was the risk of an even worse tragedy compared to what happened. But the comparisons to 9/11, democracy in danger etc. Are overblown.

Right, so a violent mob equipped with zip ties, stun guns, etc storms the capitol with the goal to interrupt the process by which the peaceful transfer of power happens from the current president to the election winner, as the constitution mandates.

So this mob crashes in, with all the senators and representatives in the building. We have video proof that some of the mob members came equipped with zip ties, etc to restrain people.

No risk to the democracy? Let''s see what's at stake here:

The transfer of power from the sitting president to the election winner. That's not a systemic risk?
The entire senate. That's not a systemic risk?
The entire house. That's not a systemic risk?

If this was a blamtifa mob you'd be seething but because it was your team that did it, we have to sit here and read you say this was a nothingburger and nothing was at stake. This kind of rampant hypocrisy makes my blood boil and it's the reason why I stopped coming to this subforum, because I can't stand people who're willing to play dumb and call black white and white black just because they don't want to admit their side did an oopsie.

fucking hell.
 

belmarduk

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Yes, he called them peaceful protesters a bunch of times - surely it must be true. No one ever called riots "peaceful" before.


Clearly, you still haven’t read the article.
 

fart town usa

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There is a very big difference between protesting outside a building without using violence and violently entering the US Capitol.

We have had protestors inside the Capitol before, but it was never a violent take over as we saw on Jan 6th.
I don't know of anyone here who hasn't condemned the Capital Riot. I don't like any type of violence, especially when it's politically motivated. Some things to keep in mind, capital police opened the doors at certain entrances, lots of people stayed within the velvet ropes, for a country so heavily armed it's fascinating that few had weapons on them. Let's also not forget the anti-Trump agitators who were there, We know for certain that there was at least one in a MAGA hat and he's since been arrested. There were bombs planted outside various buildings, fascinating that the FBI can manage to track everyone down who was at the Capital but they can't bother to find out who planted the bombs.

The Capital Riot was dumb, violent, and not anything I support. At the same time though, it wasn't any type of credible threat at taking over the government. It's just pure nonsense. You had delusional boomers who actually believed in QAnon, social media influencers, and people who were just there and taking part in what they thought was a protected protest.

It might be one thing had we not seen for 4+ years of cities actively burning, college campus riots, calls for violence against political opponents, Steve Scalise being shot and almost dying, etc. It's the hypocrisy and pearl clutching that makes people like myself roll our eyes.

If you feel like your tribe is winning and that's all that matters to you, so be it, it's not my role to change your mind. But don't be surprised when people call out the fallacy in your narrative.
 
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Pumpkin Seeds

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There is a very big difference between protesting outside a building without using violence and violently entering the US Capitol.

We have had protestors inside the Capitol before, but it was never a violent take over as we saw on Jan 6th.

People really don't know their history.

https://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/...alists-open-fire-on-house-of-representatives/

 
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infinitys_7th

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Clearly, you still haven’t read the article.

It's dramatized like a war movie, talking about them acting like medics and making it sound like the police coming in to disperse rioters after DAYS of them running rampant is an act of fascism. It's really not.

And guess what? Those riots died down dramatically after that, just like how the rioters dispersed when the National Guard responded to the Capital riot.
 
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fart town usa

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People really don't know their history.

https://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/...alists-open-fire-on-house-of-representatives/

The Weather Underground stuff is wild. Students for a Democratic Society and Weather Underground are not mentioned whatsoever in public schools, at least when I went. It's fascinating stuff that more people need to be aware about. My favorite part is that they stole the files that the FBI had on them that showed the FBI was illegally surveilling members, which then rendered aspects of the FBI case illegal by default, lol. There was also an elected officials daughter who blew herself, another guy and their apartment when trying to make a time bomb. I think the father was in Congress or something.
 

Vestal

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People really don't know their history.

https://learning.blogs.nytimes.com/...alists-open-fire-on-house-of-representatives/

I know my history pretty damn well. Again its whataboutism.

None of those events were directly correlated to the very basis of our democracy which is elections. None of them were spurred at the time by the President of the United States and a person who holds so much sway within the entirety of his party.
 

Pumpkin Seeds

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The Weather Underground stuff is wild. Students for a Democratic Society and Weather Underground are not mentioned whatsoever in public schools, at least when I went. It's fascinating stuff that more people need to be aware about. My favorite part is that they stole the files that the FBI had on them that showed the FBI was illegally surveilling members, which then rendered aspects of the FBI case illegal by default, lol. There was also an elected officials daughter who blew herself, another guy and their apartment when trying to make a time bomb. I think the father was in Congress or something.

The fact one of their leaders went back into academia and began teaching his politics is one of the most blatant signs of how youth are indoctrinated against their own country.

And Chesa Boudin the DA of San Francisco who has been putting criminals back on the street and having that lead to deaths is.... the son of one of the Weather Underground leaders. His whole basis for setting people free is that it's unfair his parent is in prison for bombing federal buildings.

The public has near zero awareness of this history when it's not that long ago that it happened.
 

fart town usa

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I know my history pretty damn well. Again its whataboutism.

None of those events were directly correlated to the very basis of our democracy which is elections. None of them were spurred at the time by the President of the United States and a person who holds so much sway within the entirety of his party.
Your John Oliver buzzwords have no power here.
 
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fart town usa

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The fact one of their leaders went back into academia and began teaching his politics is one of the most blatant signs of how youth are indoctrinated against their own country.

And Chesa Boudin the DA of San Francisco who has been putting criminals back on the street and having that lead to deaths is.... the son of one of the Weather Underground leaders. His whole basis for setting people free is that it's unfair his parent is in prison for bombing federal buildings.

The public has near zero awareness of this history when it's not that long ago that it happened.
Daaaaaaamn, I had no idea that he is linked directly to WU. That makes a lot of sense when you look at the way he is approaching cases.
 

DeepEnigma

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Daaaaaaamn, I had no idea that he is linked directly to WU. That makes a lot of sense when you look at the way he is approaching cases.
And the Clinton's, which some believe Bush Sr were the beginnings of the current establishment takeover in the White House where the two parties played flip flop by playing stacking both sides of the ticket, only to lose their shit when the "outsider" Trump won (they didn't expect him to win with all of their tactics, so that explains the amplified butthurt and damaged pride/egos).
 
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Pumpkin Seeds

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I know my history pretty damn well. Again its whataboutism.

None of those events were directly correlated to the very basis of our democracy which is elections. None of them were spurred at the time by the President of the United States and a person who holds so much sway within the entirety of his party.

The so-called Weathermen were a radical faction of the Students for a Democratic Society (SDS); the Weathermen advocated violent means to transform American society. The philosophical foundations of the Weathermen were Marxist in nature; they believed that militant struggle was the key to striking out against the state to build a revolutionary consciousness among the young, particularly the white working class. Their primary tools to achieving these ends were arson and bombing.

The Weather Underground's whole purpose was to set out revolution against American democracy. They were trained by Cuba and Moscow. They wanted to upend the American system. They were literal traitors and acting as terrorist-based foreign agents.

You know jack shit about history, son.
 

Vestal

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Sep 26, 2007
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The Weather Underground's whole purpose was to set out revolution against American democracy. They were trained by Cuba and Moscow. They wanted to upend the American system. They were literal traitors and acting as terrorist-based foreign agents.

You know jack shit about history, son.
First off, learn a little fucking respect. Secondly tell me which one of those events had support from the President of the United States? Which one of those had the President feeding lies and bullshit to egg them on?

Context and actions matter. We have the idiots in Portland right now rioting simply for rioting sake. Anarchist, that's an affront on Democracy but we don't give them much thought because its isolated, remote and you don't have the POTUS egging them on and calling them Patriots.

From the FBI itself:
Originally called the Weatherman or the Weathermen, a name taken from a line in a Bob Dylan song, the Weather Underground was a small, violent offshoot of Students for a Democratic Society, or SDS, a group created in the turbulent '60s to promote social change.

Those groups worked in the shadows for the most part. Just like every major social movement, there will always be offshoots of IDIOTS and morons taking things to far. It always happens, and its on the leaders(HINT HINT) to distance themselves and throw those people to the woodshed when they try to justify their actions for the cause.
 

WiseguyMVP

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You guys arguing with these Trumpers, I salute you.

They've obviously been indoctrinated over the years by Trump, Fox, Limbaugh, Info Wars, etc...with utter BS.
But they'll tell you, No, it's you who've been been indoctrinated with hateful lies. They'll move the goal posts, come up with pretzel logic excuses, whataboutism, gaslighting, etc... to justify their dim views.

Divide & conquer worked.
 

Pumpkin Seeds

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Jul 13, 2018
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First off, learn a little fucking respect. Secondly tell me which one of those events had support from the President of the United States? Which one of those had the President feeding lies and bullshit to egg them on?

Context and actions matter. We have the idiots in Portland right now rioting simply for rioting sake. Anarchist, that's an affront on Democracy but we don't give them much thought because its isolated, remote and you don't have the POTUS egging them on and calling them Patriots.

From the FBI itself:


Those groups worked in the shadows for the most part. Just like every major social movement, there will always be offshoots of IDIOTS and morons taking things to far. It always happens, and its on the leaders(HINT HINT) to distance themselves and throw those people to the woodshed when they try to justify their actions for the cause.

I don't want to pick on you. AntiFa isn't rioting for riotings sake. The riots are designed to create a military state from which anarchy will emerge and then they(antifa) establish Communist communities and rules. This is from their handbook.

Modern AntiFa is a cousin group to something like SDS(which still exists in universities) and The Weathermen.

You really don't understand this history since it's not taught in schools. In fact, the opposite is taught. Apparently a Michigan school is teaching Angela Davis as a hero of Black Communism. Angela was involved with these radical groups, supplying the guns used in an armed jailbreak and murder of a US Judge. Several jurors were taken hostage during this event as well. She then went on to teach at universities classes on what is now known as Critical Race Theory and earn an award from the USSR. She received the "Lenin Peace Prize" in Moscow in 1979. Her activities were largely suspected to be encouraged or propped up by the USSR. She was still teaching at UC Santa Cruz within the past decade I believe.

The main reason you(personally) don't give these things much thought is because you are positioned by academic and media influences to not give them much thought. They do serve an overall design. They have lived longer than their Soviet origins, which is no mere accident.

I suggest you learn about these things. It will make the patterns going on right now far more clear and understandable.
 
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DeepEnigma

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Dec 3, 2013
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You guys arguing with these Trumpers, I salute you.

They've obviously been indoctrinated over the years by Trump, Fox, Limbaugh, Info Wars, etc...with utter BS.
But they'll tell you, No, it's you who've been been indoctrinated with hateful lies. They'll move the goal posts, come up with pretzel logic excuses, whataboutism, gaslighting, etc... to justify their dim views.

Divide & conquer worked.
Alanis Morissette Reaction GIF by MOODMAN
 

Vestal

Gold Member
Sep 26, 2007
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I don't want to pick on you. AntiFa isn't rioting for riotings sake. The riots are designed to create a military state from which anarchy will emerge and then they(antifa) establish Communist communities and rules. This is from their handbook.

Modern AntiFa is a cousin group to something like SDS(which still exists in universities) and The Weathermen.

You really don't understand this history since it's not taught in schools. In fact, the opposite is taught. Apparently a Michigan school is teaching Angela Davis as a hero of Black Communism. Angela was involved with these radical groups, supplying the guns used in an armed jailbreak and murder of a US Judge. Several jurors were taken hostage during this event as well. She then went on to teach at universities classes on what is now known as Critical Race Theory and earn an award from the USSR. She received the "Lenin Peace Prize" in Moscow in 1979. Her activities were largely suspected to be encouraged or propped up by the USSR. She was still teaching at UC Santa Cruz within the past decade I believe.

The main reason you(personally) don't give these things much thought is because you are positioned by academic and media influences to not give them much thought. They do serve an overall design. They have lived longer than their Soviet origins, which is no mere accident.

I suggest you learn about these things. It will make the patterns going on right now far more clear and understandable

I don't give it much thought because they are a surface nuisance. Just like the other fringe groups across the political spectrum. These are fringe movements that never gain any traction because people simply don't believe in them. Its nothing new, the problem is when these movements become more than just fringe ideology.
 
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OnionSnake

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It didn't, it was literally one poll watcher (of more than 50 in the room) in Pennsylvania.
Not surprised in the slightest. Feels like 9 times out of 10 when you look into a story these guys are referencing its either completely made up or completely misrepresented.

Video of trump encouraging violence over the years that was shown in the trial today:

 
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regawdless

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Right, so a violent mob equipped with zip ties, stun guns, etc storms the capitol with the goal to interrupt the process by which the peaceful transfer of power happens from the current president to the election winner, as the constitution mandates.

So this mob crashes in, with all the senators and representatives in the building. We have video proof that some of the mob members came equipped with zip ties, etc to restrain people.

No risk to the democracy? Let''s see what's at stake here:

The transfer of power from the sitting president to the election winner. That's not a systemic risk?
The entire senate. That's not a systemic risk?
The entire house. That's not a systemic risk?

If this was a blamtifa mob you'd be seething but because it was your team that did it, we have to sit here and read you say this was a nothingburger and nothing was at stake. This kind of rampant hypocrisy makes my blood boil and it's the reason why I stopped coming to this subforum, because I can't stand people who're willing to play dumb and call black white and white black just because they don't want to admit their side did an oopsie.

fucking hell.

Huh. Sure, my team. I'm not even from the US :pie_thinking: but of course. Because everyone who disagrees with you HAS to be on the bad side. I share rather conservative ideas, though, to be open and clear.
Keep your blood boiling, honey. Makes you feel alive, if that's what you seek. It's not black and white. It wasn't hundreds of trained killers, wanting to assassinate everyone. The situation was ugly, but not as dramatic as you're making it out to be.

I don't agree to the notion of one side doing an "oopsie". Why does it always have to be accredited to one side? It's a questionable notion to automatically make a connection to all Republicans and even mild conservatives. Only goal is to divide, spread hate and suspicion. No unity in sight.
Such an incident is the consequence of many factors, it's complex. The motivations of different groups and people inside the mob, the political and cultural climate etc. It doesn't happen only because of some dumb speeches by Trump. It's naive to believe that. All these riots have been years in the making. With many people of both political parties playing key roles.

Your simplistic view while riding the moral high horse is very virtuous, though.
 
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Do a little more research before posting next time bucko


What is there to research? All of these people said things that made them complicit in encouraging the dumbfuck blamtifa protests. You can deflect all you want but it won’t change reality, bucko.
 
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NickFire

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So, yeah, if that article is true they are already talking about trying to ban him by legislation if he is not convicted. Which I cannot believe a US Senator would discuss without laughing. We don't pass ex post facto laws, or laws to target singular individuals in this country, and Congress also cannot change the constitution by legislation. They should have just listened to me weeks ago and let him ride off into the sunset of irrelevance. But nope, they needed to keep him in the spotlight, and they are now paying lip service to strategies that would never pass constitutional muster. And he will claim its a win, and increase his chances of winning the nomination next time.
 

IFireflyl

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Do a little more research before posting next time bucko


Your Facebook funded fact-checking article is saying that the quotes were taken out of context, and that the person making the quotes encouraged "peaceful" protesting. But Trump did the same thing. Even in his pre-Capitol riot speech he said, "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." You can't argue that he was inciting riots because his remarks of "peacefully" protesting don't count, and then say that the quotes from the guy you responded to were fine because the people quoted made remarks of "peaceably" protesting which were taken out of context. It's literally the same thing for everyone involved. Either they are all responsible for inciting riots, or none of them are. It's hypocritical to say the rules only apply one way.
 
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OnionSnake

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Your Facebook funded fact-checking article is saying that the quotes were taken out of context, and that the person making the quotes encouraged "peaceful" protesting. But Trump did the same thing. Even in his pre-Capitol riot speech he said, "I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard." You can't argue that he was inciting riots because his remarks of "peacefully" protesting don't count, and then say that the quotes from the guy you responded to were fine because the people quoted made remarks of "peaceably" protesting which were taken out of context. It's literally the same thing for everyone involved. Either they are all responsible for inciting riots, or none of them are. It's hypocritical to say the rules only apply one way.
Context matters here man. The context of Trumps speech was after months of hyping everyone up to "stop the steal" and used a LOT of violent rhetoric. The examples given by that meme above were out of context and when put into actual context don't spell out the way the meme made it seem. The fact you're calling it "facebook funded fact checking" says it all though. Have fun man.
 
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KiNeMz

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IFireflyl

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Context matters here man. The context of Trumps speech was after months of hyping everyone up to "stop the steal" and used a LOT of violent rhetoric. The examples given by that meme above were out of context and when put into actual context don't spell out the way the meme made it seem. The fact you're calling it "facebook funded fact checking" says it all though. Have fun man.

So the context only matters to one side. You hypocrite.

P.S. Their own website has the following disclaimer:

Our fact check work is supported in part by a grant from Facebook.

Try harder with your "gotcha!" response.
 

OnionSnake

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So the context only matters to one side. You hypocrite.

P.S. Their own website has the following disclaimer:



Try harder with your "gotcha!" response.
No, the fact that you think it being funded “in part” by Facebook is a bad thing is the “gotcha”.
And no, context does not make trumps violent rhetoric any better lol
 
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MrMephistoX

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It’s clear the Trump should be barred from holding elected office again but the Dems have seriously fucked up their argument by focusing purely on 1/6 which wouldn’t have happened if not for his 2 month long campaign of utter bullshit leading up to the riots. It’s like impeachment 1 all over again: they had plenty of material to act on from the Mueller Report and used none of it in the impeachment itself. Instead they put all their efforts on one incident instead of establishing a pattern of abhorrent behavior. I’m indifferent at this point because I this is a bungled effort.
 

Bernd Lauert

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You guys arguing with these Trumpers, I salute you.

They've obviously been indoctrinated over the years by Trump, Fox, Limbaugh, Info Wars, etc...with utter BS.
But they'll tell you, No, it's you who've been been indoctrinated with hateful lies. They'll move the goal posts, come up with pretzel logic excuses, whataboutism, gaslighting, etc... to justify their dim views.

Divide & conquer worked.
Literally no u.
 

Monkeygourmet

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Has anyone in this trial identified or explored the reason why everyone on the entire planet knew something would occur from the events on that day apart from the FBI, Special Services and Security / Police?

Even Dumbasses on this forum knew that this was likely to be an inflammatory event - i’ve seen more security at a music concert.