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Impeachment trial kicks off this week as Democrats seek to tie Trump to Capitol riots

SF Kosmo

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Trump's defense was very Trumpian. Whining about the election work picking on him and gee aren't the Dems terrible.

I found it funny when one of them pointed out Brandenburg precedent only says the issue is if the speech was intended to incite illegal action and could reasonably expect it to, which COMPLETELY shatters the rest of the defense he was arguing about the language itself not being over the line.

By the definition Schoen gave, it's completely context dependent, the same exact thing could be incitement to one audience and not to another as long as the speaker knows the difference.
 

SF Kosmo

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Funny to see the trump lawyers using the same bunk arguments as users on this board. “Just metaphors! Democrats propped up a RUSSIAN HOAX! They used violent language!!!!”
This is pandering to an audience at home that they think very little of. They know they don't have to convince the people in the room who are political hostages already.
 

daveonezero

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I think his defense did exactly what they were supposed to do. I'd bet my yearly pre-tax income that he doesn't get a conviction.
He praised the people calling to hang mike pence...

real condemnation
So he just has to apologize? This isn't preschool.

If Trump is guilty then so are a lot of other people. There is some sort of legalize term for this I'm sure of it. You can't selectively convict an individual of doing a "crime" when there are other people doing the same thing and not incriminate them.
 
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So he just has to apologize? This isn't preschool.

If Trump is guilty then so are a lot of other people. There is some sort of legalize term for this I'm sure of it. You can't selectively convict an individual of doing a "crime" when there are other people doing the same thing and not incriminate them.
So call on your elected officials to impeach people you think have broken the law.
 
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daveonezero

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So call on your elected officials to impeach people you think have broken the law.
That is the thing I don't think any of these people broke the law.... I think they broke laws while in government but not for these stupid ass speeches.

I choose not to contact the state and avoid conversation with them as much as possible.
 
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ManofOne

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I’m not gonna link to it because frankly I don’t want you to give them clicks, but WaPo has an opinion piece out that says with Trump out, the greatest threat to our democracy is Tucker Carlson.

They should scrub their site of him and then put good stories maybe then they will see him in a different light.
 

OnionSnake

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Exactly, if this is not what he wanted why did he commemorate the day and why did he not call in the national guard?
 

Mass Shift

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Exactly, if this is not what he wanted why did he commemorate the day and why did he not call in the national guard?
That's a very strong point.

I don't know what Wise Guy University these guys got their law degrees but they'd be laughed out of any courtroom in the country for blaming the prosecution for the lack of depth of their own legal argument.

It's not the prosecution's responsibility to help you prepare your legal argument. If you're unprepared or ill equipped, that's YOUR fault.
 

Spokker

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Trump's defense team made their case well today. Republicans can definitely feel confident in voting no on conviction. It's pretty scary that he would be convicted if Democrats had a supermajority. They would be impeaching him for their own behavior. It would be a conviction based on political revenge.
 

SF Kosmo

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the mook lawyer flat out lied about GA rejection rates, is that a crime? Are laywers under oath to tell the truth?

Trump's defense team made their case well today.
They did not. It was mostly whataboutisms and victim narrartives and cancel culture, the last guy straight up lied about shit, it sounded more like a shitty conservative youtuber than real lawyers.

But it doesn't matter, the hostages will vote how they must.
 
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SF Kosmo

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Did anyone else hear Bruce Castor refer to Brad Reffensperger as Ben Roethlisberger at one point?
 
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Spokker

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the mook lawyer flat out lied about GA rejection rates, is that a crime? Are laywers under oath to tell the truth?


They did not. It was mostly whataboutisms and victim narrartives and cancel culture, the last guy straight up lied about shit, it sounded more like a shitty conservative youtuber than real lawyers
Whataboutism is correct here. The overall political climate, what is considered as within established norms, is relevant. To convict Trump would essentially allow Democrats to engage in fighting words and Republicans cannot. In a two party system it is essential to judge both parties by the same standards.
 
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SF Kosmo

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Whataboutism is correct here. The overall political climate, what is considered as within established norms, is relevant. To convict Trump would essentially allow Democrats to engage in fighting words and Republicans cannot. In a two party system it is essential to judge both parties by the same standards.
It's like defending yourself in a murder trial by pointing out other people have guns. It's a nonsense argument. Democrats did not incite insurrection because there was no insurrection.
 
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Spokker

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It's like defending yourself in a murder trial by pointing out other people have guns. It's a nonsense argument. Democrats did not incite insurrection because there was no insurrection.
This is not a criminal trial, otherwise I would agree with you. This is a political process and political debate.

There were riots throughout the summer with democrats and democrat pundits seemingly approving of them on one hand, and saying that Republicans stole elections on the other. Judged by the same standards, that's a recipe for incitement. When someone talks about unrest in the streets, that does not refer to peaceful protests.
 
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Spokker

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Absolute clown show lmao.

To the people following this, when is the vote? I wanna see Trump come back into the limelight.
I don't want him to be convicted, but I would like him to retire. I would rather see Rand Paul, Mike Pence, Tucker Carlson and others run in 2024. I doubt Tucker could win but he could be real entertaining in a debate.
 

Bernd Lauert

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I don't want him to be convicted, but I would like him to retire. I would rather see Rand Paul, Mike Pence, Tucker Carlson and others run in 2024. I doubt Tucker could win but he could be real entertaining in a debate.
Idk man. Rand Paul is a meme, Mike Pence is a milquetoast neocon, Tucker is sometimes based but I can't imagine him being a good politician.

I'd like to see Trump replaced by a younger, Trump-like candidate, but there is essentially no one out there. Maybe someone emerges as his true successor, we'll see.
 

SF Kosmo

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This is not a criminal trial, otherwise I would agree with you. This is a political process and political debate.

There were riots throughout the summer with democrats and democrat pundits seemingly approving of them on one hand, and saying that Republicans stole elections on the other. Judged by the same standards, that's a recipe for incitement. When someone talks about unrest in the streets, that does not refer to peaceful protests.
No one said Republicans stole elections, they said Russia influenced people to vote Republican, there's a rather large difference between those things. One is a massive lie that puts everyone charged with the security and integrity of our elections the crosshairs, and the other is a true thing that was simply being overstated by crybabies.

Democrats did not want to dismantle democracy because of Russian trolls on twitter and ads on Facebook, they're not even close to comparable.
 
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Spokker

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Idk man. Rand Paul is a meme, Mike Pence is a milquetoast neocon, Tucker is sometimes based but I can't imagine him being a good politician.

I'd like to see Trump replaced by a younger, Trump-like candidate, but there is essentially no one out there. Maybe someone emerges as his true successor, we'll see.
I would have mentioned Dan Crenshaw as well but I don't think he'll be ripe enough for 2024. Crenshaw is the guy I would run in 2028 if Biden gets a second term.
 
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“In an expletive-laced phone call with House Republican leader Kevin McCarthy while the Capitol was under attack, then-President Donald Trump said the rioters cared more about the election results than McCarthy did.

"Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are," Trump said, according to lawmakers who were briefed on the call afterward by McCarthy.

McCarthy insisted that the rioters were Trump's supporters and begged Trump to call them off.”


Story confirmed by GOP reps.

This is impeachable in itself. McCarthy begged Trump to tell them to stop and that was Trump’s response.

Then Mcarthy went and apologized to Trump the next week. Republican politicians will go down as the biggest cucks in history. The funny thing is that if they had spine people would respect them, but because they don’t they desperately need Trump.
 
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Oh shit.. This could get interesting.
They can do that?

Interesting. Anderson Cooper was just interviewing Harvard law professor about what would happen if they called on McCarthy as a witness. He said McCarthy could challenge it in court and it could delay everything.
 

Vestal

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They can do that?

Interesting. Anderson Cooper was just interviewing Harvard law professor about what would happen if they called on McCarthy as a witness. He said McCarthy could challenge it in court and it could delay everything.

In theory I think they could by majority. Thats just an educated guess. But honestly in a high stakes game like this, anything is possible.
Would it be under oath or some weak witness bullshit? Like in the same way the senators are jurors but are allowed to be asleep or not even in the chambers.
This would be high drama if it occurred and must see TV. If they pull that shit during that, it will tarnish them heavily. It would be indefensible to not sit there during this.
 
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The timeline of Trump’s response is getting even more fucked.

Trump called Tuberville just after 2, they talked for 10 minutes. Tuberville told Trump that Pence was removed at 2:15. Then 10 minutes later Trump tweeted the infamous tweet about Pence.

Trump’s legal team denied that Trump knew that Pence was in danger. Now we know for a fact that... was a lie.

Lies No GIF


Trump was ok with Pence being under threat because that was his intent.
 
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OnionSnake

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The timeline of Trump’s response is getting even more fucked.

Trump called Tuberville just after 2, they talked for 10 minutes. Tuberville told Trump that Pence was removed at 2:15. Then 10 minutes later Trump tweeted the infamous tweet about Pence.

Trump’s legal team denied that Trump knew that Pence was in danger. Now we know for a fact that... was a lie.

Lies No GIF
Imagine still defending Trump as being innocent during this shit...
 
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Imagine still defending Trump as being innocent during this shit...
The worst part is that republican senators could and other people in the administration could come out with more information but they would rather save bombshells for their memoirs. Like Bolton did.
 
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