In the 90s babies (if male) were more suitable game heroes than a girl

[Alex_Mexico]

At least according to the executive who decided that they couldn't market Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble by saying it starred *gasp* a girl! Ew, cooties!!! No. This tv ad says DKC3 stars Kiddie Kong while it doesn't even mention Dixie. Hell, they even kind of wash out the subtitle of the game so you can read it completely.

The 30 sec tv ad here: https://youtu.be/i9PetPinkP4

And I can't believe I didn't catch this until now when I was watching The Geek Critique's review of DKC3 and he mentioned that. I was aghast because I actually was an 11 year old boy back in 1996 and I fucking got DKC3 when it came out not caring that it starred a woman and had a blast with it (albeit not a bigger blast than DKC2 but that's an entirely different matter.

I'm happy to see how the medium has evolved since then. Not as much as it should've been but there's no way they could've pulled this shit nowadays.

TGC's review: https://youtu.be/C1PO3hG7Q2M

 

[Hayama Akito]

Well, as far a s I remember EVERYONE hates Kiddy so much, at least.

 

[L Thammy]

Kiddie Kong is probably the worst thing to come out of the Donkey Kong franchise and I'm glad that he suffered a violent death.

Dixie's pretty cool though, and she's definitely the better character gameplay-wise in 2, so it's nice that she got her own game that Kiddie was not in you can't make me remember

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Kiddie Kong is probably the worst thing to come out of the Donkey Kong franchise and I'm glad that he suffered a violent death.

Donkey Konga would like to have a word with you but I'd agree that Kiddy was the worst thing that happened to the Donkey Kong Country subseries.

Which makes all of this even worse and ironic that they tried to market the game with a very hated character instead of the much more beloved, remembered and actual star of the game just because she was a girl. Its like selling Star Wars with Jar Jar Binks. I don't even think Kiddy ever appeared again even as a cameo.

Just in case it bears repeating: Dixie Kong fucking rocks!!

 

[ONLYUSEmeFEET]

Donkey Konga would like to have a word with you but I'd agree that Kiddy was the worst thing that happened to the Donkey Kong Country subseries.

Which makes all of this even worse and ironic that they tried to market the game with a very hated character instead of the much more beloved, remembered and actual star of the game just because she was a girl. Its like selling Star Wars with Jar Jar Binks. I don't even think Kiddy ever appeared again even as a cameo.

Just in case it bears repeating: Dixie Kong fucking rocks!!

Donkey Konga fucking rocks.

Sure, the songs in the US version could have been better, but it was one of the most fun Gamecube games I owned. I spent hours unlocking everything with friends and family. A Nintendo game with a unique, fun gimmick before Nintendo was known for that. Hell, I even emailed Nintendo about localizing the third game back in the day! Not every Donkey Kong game needs to be a platformer.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

Well, as far a s I remember EVERYONE hates Kiddy so much, at least.

Was he really that hated? Evidently Nintendo thought it was smarter to market the game mentioning him before Dixie, though.

 

[MulderYuffie]

Man DKC3 was the best of the trilogy I don't get the Kiddy hate but he ain't got shit on Dixie.

 

[Danis Saur]

That hilarious, I never knew that and this is one of my favorite games.

I mean, you know, it was a different time.

But now look at all the strong female leads we got on games today.

The Last of Us 2, Nier Automata, Tales of Berseria, Horizon Zero Dawn, Hellblade, Gravity Rush 2...

And thats just from the recent/upcoming PS4 exclusives.

 

[Jonnax]

Donkey Konga would like to have a word with you but I'd agree that Kiddy was the worst thing that happened to the Donkey Kong Country subseries.

Which makes all of this even worse and ironic that they tried to market the game with a very hated character instead of the much more beloved, remembered and actual star of the game just because she was a girl. Its like selling Star Wars with Jar Jar Binks. I don't even think Kiddy ever appeared again even as a cameo.

Just in case it bears repeating: Dixie Kong fucking rocks!!

Donkey Konga is an excellent game.
Much more creative that a platformer that's been done a 1000 times before ;P

 

[petran79]

Bubble Symphony got the balance right.

Bubblun, Bobblon, Kululun and Cororon, all get equal screen time. Puzzle Bobble had also amazing baby female characters. Taito does what Nintedont.

 

[show me your skeleton]

Was he really that hated? Evidently Nintendo thought it was smarter to market the game mentioning him before Dixie, though.

Nintendo can be wrong, y'know.

 

[Spukc]

Everyone wanted to play dixie kong 🐮

 

[1upsuper]

Donkey Konga would like to have a word with you but I'd agree that Kiddy was the worst thing that happened to the Donkey Kong Country subseries.

Which makes all of this even worse and ironic that they tried to market the game with a very hated character instead of the much more beloved, remembered and actual star of the game just because she was a girl. Its like selling Star Wars with Jar Jar Binks. I don't even think Kiddy ever appeared again even as a cameo.

Just in case it bears repeating: Dixie Kong fucking rocks!!

Donkey Konga is actually the best thing to happen to Donkey Kong, bro. Those are my favorite DK games by a country mile.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Well, as far a s I remember EVERYONE hates Kiddy so much, at least.

What, no. I like Kiddy Kong.

Haters gonna hate.

 

[SubScorpianZero]

You guys make it seem as if the marketing agencies didn't run surveys in the 90s.

Boys were the majority of gamers in the 90s.

As a kid growing up, I mainly always chose the guy as my character. That applied to DKC games as well, in DKC2 I only ever chose her by choice if I had to do a harder platforming level.

SF2, who were the main two characters? Ryu and Ken

Most games that gave you options, the main character usually ended up being a guy.

It's how things were, you are creating content for your audience.

In the 90s, the audience was mainly boys and young men. That's the reality.



having said all that, kiddy kong is the worst thing that happened to the DKC series. That, and replacing rambi with the stupid little elephant.

 

[AGoodODST]

I hope Kiddy Kong is in Retro's new DK game.

 

[Spukc]

You guys make it seem as if the marketing agencies didn't run surveys in the 90s.

Boys were the majority of gamers in the 90s.

As a kid growing up, I mainly always chose the guy as my character. That applied to DKC games as well, in DKC2 I only ever chose her by choice if I had to do a harder platforming level.

SF2, who were the main two characters? Ryu and Ken

Most games that gave you options, the main character usually ended up being a guy.

It's how things were, you are creating content for your audience.

In the 90s, the audience was mainly boys and young men. That's the reality.

Good point!

 

[Meffer]

God Kiddy was one fucking ugly baby. Check out his renders. With his weird shaped cheeks and wrinkled lips. Ugh just makes me want to be puke.

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

You guys make it seem as if the marketing agencies didn't run surveys in the 90s.

Boys were the majority of gamers in the 90s.

As a kid growing up, I mainly always chose the guy as my character. That applied to DKC games as well, in DKC2 I only ever chose her by choice if I had to do a harder platforming level.

SF2, who were the main two characters? Ryu and Ken

Most games that gave you options, the main character usually ended up being a guy.

It's how things were, you are creating content for your audience.

In the 90s, the audience was mainly boys and young men. That's the reality.



having said all that, kiddy kong is the worst thing that happened to the DKC series. That, and replacing rambi with the stupid little elephant.

Ever hear of a self-fulfulling prophecy?

 

[Cow Mengde]

I thought Dixie was always beloved, even back in DKC2. Everybody I knew wanted to play as Dixie rather than Diddy due to Dixie being able to float.

 

[Erevador]

You may well be right, but a more innocent explanation might be that Kiddy Kong was a NEW FEATURE since this was the first game in which he appeared. A lot of vintage video game advertising leaned hard on the NEW FEATURE tactic, rather than on the game experience as a whole.

Dixie Kong was obviously the superior character, but she wasn't new to the series. Her presence is presumably self-evident from the title, so it might have made sense to them to highlight the additional character as a feature.

 

[Cisce]

Donkey Konga would like to have a word with you but I'd agree that Kiddy was the worst thing that happened to the Donkey Kong Country subseries.

Donkey Konga 2's PAL release has All Star on it.

I think the franchise peaked at that point.

 

[SporeCrawler]

donkey konga is basically taiko no tatsujin with bongos so yeah its great. also donkey kong jungle beat came out of it

 

[SatoAilDarko]

Donkey Konga would like to have a word with you but I'd agree that Kiddy was the worst thing that happened to the Donkey Kong Country subseries.

Donkey Konga was great.

Honestly Barrel Blast is probably the answer. If only the Bongos were supported.

 

[spekkeh]

Dixie Kong was already introduced in 2. Three is the first time Kiddy Kong is there, that's why they announce him. Pretty much all the gameplay features Dixie Kong. Thread makes no sense.

 

[SubScorpianZero]

Ever hear of a self-fulfulling prophecy?

Let's go ahead and say Mattel chose to make 50% of their dolls in production ken, and the other 50% Barbie.

On average, who do you think a young girl will pick having no influence from her parents?


If I was a betting man, I would say the majority would choose the Barbie.




You think that's self-fulfilling as well?

 

[ShironRedshift]

You guys make it seem as if the marketing agencies didn't run surveys in the 90s.

Boys were the majority of gamers in the 90s.

As a kid growing up, I mainly always chose the guy as my character. That applied to DKC games as well, in DKC2 I only ever chose her by choice if I had to do a harder platforming level.

SF2, who were the main two characters? Ryu and Ken

Most games that gave you options, the main character usually ended up being a guy.

It's how things were, you are creating content for your audience.

In the 90s, the audience was mainly boys and young men. That's the reality.



having said all that, kiddy kong is the worst thing that happened to the DKC series. That, and replacing rambi with the stupid little elephant.

Which is the result of marketing departments choosing to market games toward boys. Before they did that, things were more split. But as soon as marketing departments chose to start marketing games toward boys, that's where that split you're talking about started to appear.

Polygon has a fantastic article about this that is very worth the read about how it was very conscious decisions on the part of marketing departments that lead to this and not anything "natural" or "innate" about boys or girls or anything like that. Like, it's seriously worth the read. It's long, but it's 100% worth if if you're at all interested in this subject:
http://www.polygon.com/features/2013/12/2/5143856/no-girls-allowed

 

[SubScorpianZero]

Which is the result of marketing departments choosing to market games toward boys. Before they did that, things were more split. But as soon as marketing departments chose to start marketing games toward boys, that's where that split you're talking about started to appear.

Polygon has a fantastic article about this that is very worth the read about how it was very conscious decisions on the part of marketing departments that lead to this and not anything "natural" or "innate" about boys or girls or anything like that. Like, it's seriously worth the read. It's long, but it's 100% worth if if you're at all interested in this subject:
http://www.polygon.com/features/2013/12/2/5143856/no-girls-allowed

I'll try and read it when I have the time, but if I recall correctly, didn't the change to a more boy/male focused advertisement campaign come about because of limited spacing on where video games were stocked on store shelves? After the huge crash in the 80s, stores didn't want to dedicate as much space for gaming. This supposedly helped shift the market towards a male dominated industry since Nintendo chose to market to the boys (a shift on where/how they were marketed).

But again, it leads to selling to your audience. In the 90s, that shifted towards marketing for a male dominated market

 

[capitalCORN]

Somehow, the pervasive patriarchy is a missed point for some of you.

 

[SubScorpianZero]

Somehow, the pervasive patriarchy is a missed point for some of you.

you have it all figured out.

 

[-Mutsukki-]

Donkey Konga would like to have a word with you but I'd agree that Kiddy was the worst thing that happened to the Donkey Kong Country subseries.

How can you hate a Taiko no Tatsujin remix but with just as fun controls...

Kiddy Kong fucking sucks and is one of the reasons I dislike DKC3

 

[ramparter]

I don't get this seriously. I grew up in the 90s I never saw a problem having a female protagonist but only now I realize there weren't many anyway.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

I hope Kiddy Kong is in Retro's new DK game.

Me too! I heard it's gonna be a Metroid X Donkey Kong crossover.

 

[daTRUballin]

This kind of thing still happens even today. It reminds me of an interview that I remember reading with former Lionhead devs shortly after the studio was closed down. Apparently one of the Fable games was supposed to have a black female on the front cover, but Microsoft's marketing department didn't allow it. I don't remember which Fable game it was though. I think it was Fable 3? It's been awhile though, so I don't know if I'm remembering the story correctly.

 

[Neff]

Dixie Kong was already introduced in 2. Three is the first time Kiddy Kong is there, that's why they announce him. Pretty much all the gameplay features Dixie Kong. Thread makes no sense.

Exactly this. He was a new character for the franchise, hence the spotlight.

Also there's this rather famous character called Lara Croft.

 

[Alex_Mexico]

You guys make it seem as if the marketing agencies didn't run surveys in the 90s.

Boys were the majority of gamers in the 90s.

As a kid growing up, I mainly always chose the guy as my character. That applied to DKC games as well, in DKC2 I only ever chose her by choice if I had to do a harder platforming level.

SF2, who were the main two characters? Ryu and Ken

Most games that gave you options, the main character usually ended up being a guy.

It's how things were, you are creating content for your audience.

In the 90s, the audience was mainly boys and young men. That's the reality.



having said all that, kiddy kong is the worst thing that happened to the DKC series. That, and replacing rambi with the stupid little elephant.

Did it never occurr to you that there weren't more girl gamers in the 90s because games didn't try to crater to them? It's the chicken and the egg dilemma. There was a time when videogames were more unisex (pre-NES days). It wasn't until Nintendo came along that games started skewing disproportionately towards boys.

 

[Dylan]

Probably lots of logical marketing reasons for this.

-DKC3 not a system seller, probably most SNES owners were already male

-Dixie isn't a new character so they would have already had data on wether she had market appeal

-In the 90s there was a weird baby fad happening (Rugrats etc)

-Entirely possible that market research showed a baby gorilla was more appealing to females than a female gorilla

-People were on a lot of cocaine back then

 

[Thud]

How did they market 2?

 

[GeoGonzo]

Huh.

I 103%'d that game but somehow I always assumed that Kiddy Kong was also a girl.

 

[Barrel Cannon]

Dixie kong was the goat though. That float. What kid would want to play as a baby after playing dkc2.

 

[FloweryMarston]

I mean, i understand what you are saying, but the game still has dixie's name on the cover, everyone assumed that she was the natural protagonista just like diddy was in the second game and dk on the first. While the commercial does one thing, the legacy of the game puts dixie front and center. And they are monkeys.

 

[Sakujou]

we didnt had this kind of feminist talk in the 90s.

if we would name a device "game BOY" these days, there would be a major shitstorm coming around.

so, i wouldnt try to talk shit about stuff from the 80s and 90s.

i loved dkc1-3, there is nothing wrong with dixie kong.

you know, the ghostbusters game for the atari only starred the 3 white ghostbusters, the black one wasnt important enough or "we cant market that" was the reason, why they simply flat out left him out.
when i saw that, i was floored and disappointed that racism even exists in videogames.

I mean, i understand what you are saying, but the game still has dixie's name on the cover, everyone assumed that she was the natural protagonista just like diddy was in the second game and dk on the first. While the commercial does one thing, the legacy of the game puts dixie front and center. And they are monkeys.

FUCKING THIS.

 

[PhilTheAussieGuy]

While the portrayal of women has hardly been a high point in this industry I really do feel that you are reaching here. The game title was named after Dixie, not Kiddie, which is the opposite of what you would expect if they thought kiddie was the big seller for the game.

The ad was most likely designed to sell us on thr new Kong as Dixie had already prooved her worth in DCK2.

 

[lazygecko]

The PC games industry was relatively insulated from the 80's crash and was comparatively even in gender demographics as well, until they started adopring a more homogenized, console market style marketing in the 90's. So gaming overall being for boys was certainly imposed on the market arbitrarily.

 

[Mawile]

The 30 sec tv ad here: https://youtu.be/i9PetPinkP4

WTF IS THIS?

 

[zeexlash]

Kiddy Kong doesn't deserve the hate, he has some cool moves like bouncing on water and complements Dixie well as a character.

They make a good team and it was bold of Rareware to use them instead of the more recognisable Donkey Kong or Diddy Kong .

Perhaps they wanted to centre the advertising around the newer character?

 

[Chuckie]

WTF IS THIS?

Yeah this seems to be the biggest issue of that commercial.


Also what is wrong with Kiddy Kong? I never played DKC3. He looks cute? Does he control like shit? Like that fucking Cranky?

 

[Principate]

Ever hear of a self-fulfulling prophecy?

There's actually a very good Polygon article on this (back when they actually made good long form articles). The industry didn't always cater exclusively to boys before the crash it was a lot more gender neutral after the crash a lot of companies started to do a lot more polling to focus on the demo-graphs that were still buying games. They were males and the current cycle spiralled out from there.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Let's go ahead and say Mattel chose to make 50% of their dolls in production ken, and the other 50% Barbie.

On average, who do you think a young girl will pick having no influence from her parents?

If I was a betting man, I would say the majority would choose the Barbie.

You think that's self-fulfilling as well?

The point did indeed fly over your head. It's not about "who would a young girl pick", it's "who would a kid of any gender pick". The second you're assuming a product is targeted at a gender and decide accordingly, you're indeed making it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Barbie and Masters of the Universe are perfect examples of gender-targeted products, but videogames never needed to be, and indeed only were for a specific section of gaming history where a deliberate push was made.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Yeah this seems to be the biggest issue of that commercial.


Also what is wrong with Kiddy Kong? I never played DKC3. He looks cute? Does he control like shit? Like that fucking Cranky?

A lot of people thought he was annoying.

Functionally he's pretty much identical to DK himself from the original Do game (the slow-but-heavy character to Dixie's mobile light character), so he was seen as an unnecessary replacement for a character who hadn't been present in the last two games that bore his name.