RedC
Member
Strawman argument.
I never argued that gaming isn't just consoles.
I stated the fact that "Mighty America" is by far the biggest CONSOLE market in a thread about CONSOLE sales.
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In the US, Switch is 1.1M behind PS2 ltd, PS5 +7% vs PS4 Aligned, and Xbox Series "holding close" with Xbox 360 and has passed OG Xbox
- Thread starter LakeOf9
- Start date
I never argued that gaming isn't just consoles.
I stated the fact that "Mighty America" is by far the biggest CONSOLE market in a thread about CONSOLE sales.
It's likely behind both 360 and One based on estimates but he's used "holding close" instead of providing a negative figure.
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
Right that's why we have hugely popular devices like the switch.
jm89
Member
CitizenKratos
Member
I’d be more curious to see [aligned] LTD PS5 vs NSW.
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Woopah
Member
Its likely to be Nintendo's 1st best selling console ever.
Lack of Wii U ports won't be an issue now that they are concentrated on a single ecosystem.
Development times will indeed increase, but they are making investments/partnerships to offset that.
PS2 did really well in Europe and developing markets. Outside the main markets, Nintendo's distribution network is pretty week (though they are working to improve it).
Why is he delusional?
Switch is classed as a home console by Circana (I imagine due to the hardware and software pricing).
Deputy Moonman
Member
The US is the biggest Xbox market. The rest of the world, outside of a few countries, has large biases against Microsoft and Xbox.
freefornow
Member
Kinect gave a bump, but first 4 years felt more than moderate.
Source: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2013...-poised-to-pass-wii-in-us-sales-by-years-end/
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
It's the same story in the world outside US as well.
No it's not
Woopah
Member
Outside the US the Switch isn't as close to the PS2, PS5 is behind PS4 and Xbox Series is doing significantly worse.
Loomy
Thinks Microaggressions are Real
Switch catching up to PS2, PS5 holding on and more or less keeping up with PS4, Xbox struggling.
What's the difference?
Tiago Rodrigues
Gold Member
You do know ps5 is selling above the ps4 in the USA, the only country that it didn’t suffer a price increase, right?
There’s still most exclusive titles to be released, all studios are currently working on ps5 games, there’s the PRO, there’s the GTA VI effect, theres the eventual price decrease, etc. PS5 most eventful years will be its second half. PS4 also took a while to have decent content. The ps5 is taking longer because of longer development cycles.
Also sony never even once mentioned that the ps5 isn’t surpassing the ps4 in sales.
I think the primary differences that I would characterize are these:
- In the US, the Series is keeping pace with Xbox 360; everywhere else in the world it has fallen FAR behind every other Xbox
- In the US, PS5 is outpacing PS4; everywhere else in the world it has fallen behind by ~1.5-2 million
- In the US, the Switch has not yet outsold the PS2 but is only a million or so behind. Globally, this is not the case (it has outsold PS2 in Japan and certain continental EU markets, but globally cumulatively, it is still a year's worth of sales behind the PS2)
fart town usa
Member
Funny thing is that Xenoblade Chronicles X will probably be on the next Switch.
demigod
Member
It’s not keeping pace in the US. If you check the history, it’s selling about 70k less per month than the 360.
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Hero_Select
Member
S0ULZB0URNE
Member
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
Zelda will push the Switch passed the PS2 in the US.
nial
Member
Kinda problematic since it also includes NSW Lite sales, which is objectively not a home console. This is a problem the Vita would have had in sales discourse if it was actually successful (with the Vita TV, which is objectively not a handheld console).
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Luminoth-4545
Member
The PS5 being +7% over PS4 means roughly 20.7m for PS5 and Switch being 1.1m behind PS2 means 45.24m, not too far off with estimations below but the numbers need adjusting slightly.
Estimations for 2024
1995 to 2022 is official NPD data, 2023 and 2024 are estimations from IB. * 2024 numbers are as of June.
Current Platforms
Legacy Platforms
Estimations for 2024
| Month | PS5 | XBS | NSW |
|---|---|---|---|
| January | 425,000 | 210,000 | 250,000 |
| February | 410,000 | 195,000 | 220,000 |
| March | 525,000 | 205,000 | 235,000 |
| April | 250,000 | 105,000 | 140,000 |
| May | 230,000 | 110,000 | 130,000 |
| June | 340,000 | 165,000 | 185,000 |
| Total | 2,180,000 | 990,000 | 1,160,000 |
| Lifetime | 20,860,000 | 14,540,000 | 45,340,000 |
1995 to 2022 is official NPD data, 2023 and 2024 are estimations from IB. * 2024 numbers are as of June.
Current Platforms
| Year | PS5 | PS5 Total | XBS | XBS Total | NSW | NSW Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2024* | 2,180,000 | 20,860,000 | 990,000 | 14,540,000 | 1,160,000 | 45,340,000 |
| 2023 | 6,780,000 | 18,680,000 | 3,850,000 | 13,550,000 | 4,770,000 | 44,180,000 |
| 2022 | 5,660,000 | 11,900,000 | 4,480,000 | 9,700,000 | 5,830,000 | 39,410,000 |
| 2021 | 4,280,000 | 6,240,000 | 3,730,000 | 5,220,000 | 7,610,000 | 33,580,000 |
| 2020 | 1,960,000 | 1,960,000 | 1,490,000 | 1,490,000 | 8,980,000 | 25,970,000 |
| 2019 | - | - | 6,480,000 | 16,990,000 | ||
| 2018 | - | - | 5,640,000 | 10,510,000 | ||
| 2017 | - | - | 4,870,000 | 4,870,000 |
Legacy Platforms
| Year | PS4 - 34,760,000 | XBO - 29,000,000 | Wii U - 5,510,000 | 3DS - 23,390,000 | PSV - 2,440,000 |
| 2022 | 50,000 | - | - | - | - |
| 2021 | 600,000 | 10,000 | - | - | - |
| 2020 | 2,000,000 | 1,460,000 | - | 200,000 | - |
| 2019 | 3,830,000 | 3,040,000 | - | 560,000 | - |
| 2018 | 5,290,000 | 4,360,000 | - | 1,470,000 | - |
| 2017 | 5,420,000 | 4,280,000 | - | 2,180,000 | - |
| 2016 | 5,100,000 | 4,730,000 | 510,000 | 2,490,000 | 60,000 |
| 2015 | 5,720,000 | 4,930,000 | 1,340,0000 | 2,400,000 | 280,000 |
| 2014 | 4,680,000 | 4,370,000 | 1,560,000 | 2,570,000 | 320,000 |
| 2013 | 2,000,000 | 1,820,000 | 1,210,000 | 3,810,000 | 500,000 |
| 2012 | - | - | 890,000 | 3,630,000 | 1,280,000 |
| 2011 | - | - | - | 4,080,000 | - |
| Year | PS3 - 26,870,000 | X360 - 43,220,000 | Wii - 41,780,000 | DS - 53,530,000 | PSP - 19,990,000 |
| 2017 | 10,000 | 20,000 | - | - | - |
| 2016 | 190,000 | 250,000 | - | - | - |
| 2015 | 360,000 | 570,000 | 40,000 | - | - |
| 2014 | 750,000 | 1,330,000 | 240,000 | 10,000 | 20,000 |
| 2013 | 2,180,000 | 3,070,000 | 810,000 | 520,000 | 130,000 |
| 2012 | 3,410,000 | 5,300,000 | 1,960,000 | 1,980,000 | 240,000 |
| 2011 | 4,520,000 | 7,280,000 | 4,530,000 | 3,840,000 | 1,120,000 |
| 2010 | 4,330,000 | 6,760,000 | 7,070,000 | 8,580,000 | 1,660,000 |
| 2009 | 4,330,000 | 4,770,000 | 9,590,000 | 11,190,000 | 2,490,000 |
| 2008 | 3,540,000 | 4,740,000 | 10,170,000 | 9,950,000 | 3,820,000 |
| 2007 | 2,560,000 | 4,620,000 | 6,290,000 | 8,430,000 | 3,830,000 |
| 2006 | 690,000 | 3,900,000 | 1,080,000 | 5,320,000 | 3,050,000 |
| 2005 | - | 610,000 | - | 2,580,000 | 3,630,000 |
| 2004 | - | - | - | 1,230,000 | - |
| Year | PS2 - 46,340,000 | Xbox - 14,500,000 | GCN - 11,810,000 | DC - 4,010,000 | GBA - 35,700,000 |
| 2012 | 50,000 | - | - | - | - |
| 2011 | 290,000 | - | - | - | - |
| 2010 | 750,000 | - | - | - | - |
| 2009 | 1,800,000 | - | - | - | - |
| 2008 | 2,500,000 | - | - | - | 420,000 |
| 2007 | 3,940,000 | - | 10,000 | - | 1,120,000 |
| 2006 | 4,840,000 | 400,000 | 1,120,000 | - | 3,240,000 |
| 2005 | 5,510,000 | 2,420,000 | 1,560,000 | - | 4,370,000 |
| 2004 | 4,680,000 | 4,010,000 | 2,290,0000 | - | 7,080,000 |
| 2003 | 6,310,000 | 3,100,000 | 3,270,000 | - | 7,780,000 |
| 2002 | 8,390,000 | 3,170,000 | 2,260,000 | 1,250,000 | 6,940,000 |
| 2001 | 6,180,000 | 1,400,000 | 1,210,000 | 1,280,000 | 4,750,000 |
| 2000 | 1,100,000 | - | - | 1,480,000 | - |
| 1999 | - | - | - | - | - |
| Year | PS1 - 30,180,000 | N64 - 17,990,000 | Saturn - 1,360,000 | GBC - 17,270,000 |
| 2005 | 40,000 | - | - | - |
| 2004 | 710,000 | - | - | - |
| 2003 | 1,150,000 | 10,000 | - | - |
| 2002 | 2,200,000 | 150,000 | - | 60,000 |
| 2001 | 2,240,000 | 1,160,000 | - | 2,950,000 |
| 2000 | 3,230,000 | 2,530,000 | - | 6,820,000 |
| 1999 | 5,850,000 | 3,540,000 | - | 6,450,000 |
| 1998 | 7,110,000 | 4,140,000 | 50,000 | 990,000 |
| 1997 | 5,050,000 | 4,490,000 | 240,000 | - |
| 1996 | 1,990,000 | 1,970,000 | 780,000 | - |
| 1995 | 600,000 | - | 290,000 | - |
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Luminoth-4545
Member
So after year 4 the XBS was roughly 0.22 million behind the X360 so maybe 0.75 million behind now midway through year 5, less than a million would be considered "holding close" but X360 still had it's best years ahead of it and XBS sales are declining every year.
| Year 1 | Year 2 | Year 3 | Year 4 | Year 5 | Year 6 | Year 7 | Year 8 | |
| 2005 - X360 | 0.61 | 3.90 | 4.62 | 4.74 | 4.77 | 6.76 | 7.28 | 5.30 |
| 2020 - XBS | 1.49 | 3.73 | 4.48 | 3.85 |
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Mozza
Member
I thought the PS5 was going to outslell the PS4 at least, there were people on here saying they Sony would have dold as many as they could have made, and you could not get a PS5 through regular channels of over a year or so, perhaps two. So we are thinking Sony did kind of make enough, and it was the sacalpers creating a shortage, that when Sony managed to get production levels up, the demand simply dried up a little.
Sony definitely wasn't making enough as the covid lock downs spiked demand, they probably could have sold 20 million consoles in 2021 instead of the 13 million they did
But it was never going to sell the 40 million a year some were insisting here
Woopah
Member
I see the logic, but don't think it matters too much since they are all counted as consoles anyway.
If we go back to earlier NPDs for instance, home consoles and portable consoles were all counted in the same ranking (for both hardware and software). They weren't seperate rankings.
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Additionally, the key thing is the Switch has sold hardware and software at home console prices, unlike past handhelds which were budget options to home console gaming. So at this point, from a statistical and tracking point of view, the distinction is moot.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
I mean he's largely already told us everything that he is allowed to tell us.
Microsoft doesn't publish these numbers for a reason.
Saying it is on pace with the 360 is literally saying nothing. The 360 got off to a relatively slow start and there is some evidence to suggest that its overall performance in North America was heavily assisted by the RROD forcing many consumers to buy a new Xbox 360 later into the generation.
The X1 on the other hand got off to a fast start and quickly faded, but there is no comparison to the X1 here. The XBS is almost certainly on a worse trajectory than the X1 after it fell off. It's performing significantly worse in Europe and Asia.
CF25 might give it a slight bump with people jumping from X1, but it's not going to be sustained, if anything it might hurt sales later in the year when they likely were going to happen anyways.
PS5 is in for a weak summer, but it'll be worse for XBS.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
The primary reason why consoles and handhelds aren't often combined is because there is general consensus that the comparison is not apples to apples.
The Switch Lite costs 200 dollars compared to the PS5 that costs 500 or the digital that costs 400/450. Technology is making comparisons more difficult, but that price point is about as different as it has always been between handhelds and consoles.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
That and it sold most of it's numbers & dominated the competition in the same generation before it's successor released.
It didn't achieve it 4 years after the competition has moved on.
Woopah
Member
The 360 did indeed get a big boost in its later life, but that was more to do with Kinect than RROD.
That's why Circana now does a revenue ranking and a unit ranking.
But if you go back to prior NPD reports they would put all platforms in the same ranking, even though the price points for DS, 360, Wii, PSP and PS3 were very different.
The top selling platform for each month could be a handheld console or a home console. They didn't have seperate hardware and software rankings for the different types.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
Sony cuts PlayStation 2 prices to $129 - Apr. 20, 2006
money.cnn.com
101mill in 2006
How is that less then half
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Okay, fair, I remembered it crossing 100 million in March 2007Sony cuts PlayStation 2 prices to $129 - Apr. 20, 2006
money.cnn.com
101mill in 2006
How is that less then half
Still, it got a significant portion of its sales after the generation ended, its longevity is what made it so unassailable for this long. It makes total sense the only other system that would be able to beat it would be similarly long lived.
Woopah
Member
By the end of May, Xbox Series was 13% behind Xbox One and slightly behind Xbox 360 launch aligned.
ShadowkillXNA
Member
There's no bias.
The xbox simply isnt an attractive enough product for people in those markets.
And that's a direct result of Microsoft's handling of the xbox brand.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Then why did Europe not see a boost? My theory is because European countries had significantly stronger consumer protections and people were able to get their 360s replaced. There is no evidence of high selling kinect games apart from Kinect adventures which was bundled with the 360.
That's because they track video game systems collectively. That doesn't mean handhelds are consoles.
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
And it's not getting better.
Woopah
Member
If you have Europe numbers/stats I'd love to see them!
In the US at least we saw Kinect contribute significantly to 360's success when it launched. Holiday 2010 had very high sales and in December 2010 360 achieved by far it's highest monthly sales (half of which were the Kinect model).
Then in Feb 2011 we saw 360 achieve it's highest ever non-holiday monthly sales, two thirds of which were the Kinect model.
I would expect RROD to effect 360 sales over the long term, not cause a sudden incresse in sales in its 6th and 7th years (of course Kinect was not the only factor, but it was an important one).
That's what I'm saying. Handheld consoles and home consoles are all tracked together as dedicated video game systems.
I do expect that % to increase.
Thick Thighs Save Lives
NeoGAF's Physical Games Advocate Extraordinaire
Luminoth-4545
We got official LTD numbers from NPD/Circana via Mat Piscatella for PS2, PS3, Wii and 360:- PS2: 46.5M
- X360: 42.7M
- Wii: 41.7M
- PS3: 26.7M
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
- PS2: 46.5M
- X360: 42.7M
- Wii: 41.7M
- PS3: 26.7M
Woopah
these numbers kind of tell the whole story here. There is no way that the 360 nearly outsold the PS2 (best selling console in history) in addition to the competition it got from the PS3 and even the Wii.
The "growth" we would have had to see that generation, certainly didn't carry over to the next generation, nor are those numbers represented elsewhere.
Microsoft gave a 3 year warranty from time of purchase in 2007 and the numbers started to spike up in 2010 and 2011 when people had to do out of warranty replacements.
Again, not a single Kinect game in the top selling lists outside of the bundled games, so Kinect was not this feature that drove the sales.
SkylineRKR
Member
There are a few caveats here.
Despite beating Sony and Nintendo to the market Xbox 360 only sold kind of decent for its first 3 FY. It outsold the PS3, which sold bad. And it outsold the original Xbox. It had a good narrative. So yeah, I understand why MS would say Series outperforms 360, because 360 is their most succesful system to date. But in reality it sales weren't spectacular at first (even X1 outsold it).
The PS5 ofcourse suffered from the pandemia. Even though the demand was high, there was the problem with microchips too. The industry was crippled for a while.
The PS5 actually had a price raise, instead of going down in price. We are about 4 years in, and its more expensive than it was in 2020. Price drops seem to be a thing of the past. These systems basically generate their LTD numbers based on their actual launch RRP. Which is kind of impressive perhaps.
Despite beating Sony and Nintendo to the market Xbox 360 only sold kind of decent for its first 3 FY. It outsold the PS3, which sold bad. And it outsold the original Xbox. It had a good narrative. So yeah, I understand why MS would say Series outperforms 360, because 360 is their most succesful system to date. But in reality it sales weren't spectacular at first (even X1 outsold it).
The PS5 ofcourse suffered from the pandemia. Even though the demand was high, there was the problem with microchips too. The industry was crippled for a while.
The PS5 actually had a price raise, instead of going down in price. We are about 4 years in, and its more expensive than it was in 2020. Price drops seem to be a thing of the past. These systems basically generate their LTD numbers based on their actual launch RRP. Which is kind of impressive perhaps.
If you can mention rrod having an impact on sales then I would mention that the PS2's DRE's problems were just as bad. And I don't even think Sony ever acknowledged it even though it was a common problem.
There is no way that the 360 nearly outsold the PS2 (best selling console in history) in addition to the competition it got from the PS3 and even the Wii.
The "growth" we would have had to see that generation, certainly didn't carry over to the next generation, nor are those numbers represented elsewhere.
Microsoft gave a 3 year warranty from time of purchase in 2007 and the numbers started to spike up in 2010 and 2011 when people had to do out of warranty replacements.
Again, not a single Kinect game in the top selling lists outside of the bundled games, so Kinect was not this feature that drove the sales.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
I never knew the PS3 performed so badly in the US. At least the rest of the world knew it was a great console.
Luminoth-4545
Member
- PS2: 46.5M
- X360: 42.7M
- Wii: 41.7M
- PS3: 26.7M
So NPD/Circana made minor adjustments to the lifetime totals (biggest being X360 from 43.2m to 42.7m) then but there are no new numbers for the individual years so we are stuck with the yearly numbers.
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Luminoth-4545
Member
PS3 actually had a slightly higher U.S to Global ratio
PS3 - 26.7 /87.4 = 30.55%
PS4 - 34.8 /117.2 = 29.69%
Woopah
Member
If people were just replacing broken 360s, they would go for the standard model wouldn't they?
There is no way that the 360 nearly outsold the PS2 (best selling console in history) in addition to the competition it got from the PS3 and even the Wii.
The "growth" we would have had to see that generation, certainly didn't carry over to the next generation, nor are those numbers represented elsewhere.
Microsoft gave a 3 year warranty from time of purchase in 2007 and the numbers started to spike up in 2010 and 2011 when people had to do out of warranty replacements.
Again, not a single Kinect game in the top selling lists outside of the bundled games, so Kinect was not this feature that drove the sales.
The 360s bought in 2006 came out of warranty in 2009, but there was no big increase in yearly sales.
Instead we see very high sales following the Kinect launch in holiday 2010, with a large amount of those sales being the more expensive Kinect bundle. Clearly showing a strong demand for Kinect.
Software wise, both Kinect Sports and Dance Central sold over 1 million copies in the US in their first two months.
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Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
You're assuming that these consoles all broke immediately after the 3rd year or were all purchased at the very beginning of 2006. We know that's not true.
A million copies of Kinect sports and dance central do not explain the boost in hardware sales for Xbox relative to the PS2 which only had competition from the GameCube, OG Xbox, and Dreamcast.
That just doesn't add up. Both those games were 24th or worse on the Xbox 360 best selling chart. Games like Batman still sold better on PS3 than 360.