• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Independent Reports Validates the FBI Russia Investigation

dragonfart28

Banned
Jun 12, 2009
5,106
736
1,080
Should they have investigated Ukraine instead? 🤡

The report by Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitzconcluded that the FBI and the Justice Department launched their investigation into the 2016 campaign not for political reasons, but because of evidence the Russian government was using cutouts to reach out to the Trump campaign as part of its efforts to influence the election.
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: V4skunk

NickFire

Member
Mar 12, 2014
6,212
5,453
800
There is a huge difference between validates the investigation and opened it for legitimate reasons, no? Pretty sure someone was referred for possible criminal investigation for altering a document.
 
Last edited:
  • Love
Reactions: ZombieTech

TheContact

Member
Jan 22, 2016
3,065
907
555
There is a huge difference between validates the investigation and opened it for legitimate reasons, no? Pretty sure someone was referred for possible criminal investigation for altering a document.
I get this argument. It's like pulling someone over when they didn't do anything wrong but finding a ton of drugs in the car.
 

NickFire

Member
Mar 12, 2014
6,212
5,453
800
I get this argument. It's like pulling someone over when they didn't do anything wrong but finding a ton of drugs in the car.
Not really at all. More like pulling someone over who you suspect of drug trafficking because they ran a red, then finding no drugs. But honestly I was just pointing out the flawed premise of the thread title. Opening the investigation was validated, but it certainly does not say the investigation itself was without its flaws. Just read the news.
 

monegames

Member
Sep 26, 2014
2,673
2,503
615
"We put Carter Page, Trump campaign staffer, under surveillance but we didn't spy on Trump campaign." Surveillance is a synonym for spying. At least lie with some consistency.
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: ZombieTech

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
8,563
10,815
955
Ukraine stuff is seperate from Russia.

Ukrainians leaked the black ledger on Manafort. The person who leaked it.... the guy in charge of the anti-corruption bureau set up by Obama.

A court in Ukraine convicted him of this, but he was let off on a technicality based on statue of limitations and jurisdiction.

Chalupa was working with the Ukranian embassy and Isakoff to dig up dirt on Trump and Manafort and diseminate it through the media. Even before Manafort joined Trumps team Chalupa wrote she had a feeling there was a Russian connection.

Horrowitz says there was no political bias but there was lots of mistakes errors and outright deception on the FISA applications along with most of the steele dossier not being confirmed and this information not being given to the FISA courts. So the top guys shielded themselves by having their underlings make all the errors.

We still are at the same place that there were a ton of errors, some malicously on the FISA applications, and in the end all this spying on Trump and investigations lead to Mueller finding no American colluded with the Russian.
 

NickFire

Member
Mar 12, 2014
6,212
5,453
800
Good thing Horowitz isn't the one handling the criminal investigation. Apparently he wanted to redact portions that mentioned Steele, but Barr refused.

Time for them to put up or shut up IMO. I think this whole thing stinks something rotten, but I'm tired of hearing about pending reports from any side. Just tell us what you know or be done with it (not you, the politicians).
 
  • Like
Reactions: KorbinDallas
Dec 15, 2011
5,874
13,984
1,090
I think this dragonfart28 dragonfart28 parody account is great.
I mean, it's no Titania McGrath, but it's so convincing and seems to work well as a honeypot tactic for other people that, really, ought to know when they're being played.

Bravo!
 
  • LOL
Reactions: HeresJohnny

Hotspurr

Member
Jan 27, 2018
1,103
1,217
430
Ah, too bad this ended up being a giant nothing burger. Given how long it took I'm not surprised.
 

Sign

Member
Jun 4, 2012
421
521
590
This report was never the one that mattered. It is entirely possible to do everything above board after creating the reason for the investigation in the first place. And looking at the report it seems like there was a lot of things not above board. Durham/Barr has actual scope / is a criminal investigation. I don't know if they will find anything, but the questions being asked there are the ones that will determine whether this was just shady but techniquely not illegal vs coup.
 

KorbinDallas

Member
Oct 8, 2019
282
218
255
Time for them to put up or shut up IMO. I think this whole thing stinks something rotten, but I'm tired of hearing about pending reports from any side. Just tell us what you know or be done with it (not you, the politicians).
Leaning on Durham report to do anything either seems like another TICK TOCK nonsense. The IG report in early 2019 was supposed to put operatives in jail. It's done nothing. This IG report will do nothing. Durham will most likely do nothing.
 

Joe T.

Member
Oct 3, 2004
2,743
3,213
1,705
Montreal, Quebec
I hope that solves it was never a witchhunt that Trump and some on Gaf claim it to be.
It doesn't, though. That's taking the Comey approach and claiming this report vindicated the FBI when it did no such thing. There's a striking number of significant omissions/"inaccuracies" brought to us by the same man that delivered a scathing review of the Clinton email mess. The FBI's taken a beating these last few years.

There's been some interesting digging going on, too, a long Twitter thread that brings up the Eric Garner case:

 

autoduelist

Member
Aug 30, 2014
11,531
18,365
855






 

autoduelist

Member
Aug 30, 2014
11,531
18,365
855

“Based on the evidence collected to date, and while our investigation is ongoing, last month we advised the Inspector General that we do not agree with some of the report’s conclusions as to predication and how the FBI case was opened,” U.S. Attorney John Durham said in a statement.

Horowitz released his report Monday saying his investigators found no intentional misconduct or political bias surrounding efforts to launch that 2016 probe and to seek a highly controversial Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA) warrant to monitor former Trump campaign adviser Carter Page in the early months of the investigation. Still, it found that there were "significant concerns with how certain aspects of the investigation were conducted and supervised."

“I have the utmost respect for the mission of the Office of Inspector General and the comprehensive work that went into the report prepared by Mr. Horowitz and his staff,” Durham said. “However, our investigation is not limited to developing information from within component parts of the Justice Department. Our investigation has included developing information from other persons and entities, both in the U.S. and outside of the U.S.”
“In the rush to obtain and maintain FISA surveillance of Trump campaign associates, FBI officials misled the FISA court, omitted critical exculpatory facts from their filings, and suppressed or ignored information negating the reliability of their principal source,” Barr said.

He added, “The Inspector General found the explanations given for these actions unsatisfactory. While most of the misconduct identified by the Inspector General was committed in 2016 and 2017 by a small group of now-former FBI officials, the malfeasance and misfeasance detailed in the Inspector General’s report reflects a clear abuse of the FISA process.”
 

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
18,795
37,827
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com
Having read more of the IG report, the two standouts are as follows:

- Steele dossier was in fact used as material evidence to get the FISA. In other words Democrat oppositional research was indeed involved in the Russiagate investigation from the beginning as people have been claiming for years.

- Trump's campaign was in fact spied on. The report handwaves it as "surveillance" and the FBI doing their due diligence, but they did in fact insert themselves into Trump's campaign for the purpose of watching and gathering information.

I'm not holding my breath for Durham's report because even genuine bombshells like the two pieces mentioned above go unnoticed or dismissed. If we applied the current impeachment standard to the FBI (everything looked above board, but there appear to be conflicts of interest so they must have secret motives...) the media would be singing a different tune.

Even if they acted with "no political bias" as the report claims, this is an embarrassing mistake on the FBI's part and a clear breach of their own procedures (as the report states, 17 significant errors). Remember, you don't need the schemer to say it out loud or to spell it out in an email for it to be a scheme (to borrow the impeachment kangaroo-court's logic). And even when they do spell it out in text messages and in emails, that doesn't count because... look, over there, Russians!
 

dolabla

Member
Oct 9, 2013
4,300
6,015
775
Having read more of the IG report, the two standouts are as follows:

- Steele dossier was in fact used as material evidence to get the FISA. In other words Democrat oppositional research was indeed involved in the Russiagate investigation from the beginning as people have been claiming for years.

- Trump's campaign was in fact spied on. The report handwaves it as "surveillance" and the FBI doing their due diligence, but they did in fact insert themselves into Trump's campaign for the purpose of watching and gathering information.

I'm not holding my breath for Durham's report because even genuine bombshells like the two pieces mentioned above go unnoticed or dismissed. If we applied the current impeachment standard to the FBI (everything looked above board, but there appear to be conflicts of interest so they must have secret motives...) the media would be singing a different tune.

Even if they acted with "no political bias" as the report claims, this is an embarrassing mistake on the FBI's part and a clear breach of their own procedures (as the report states, 17 significant errors). Remember, you don't need the schemer to say it out loud or to spell it out in an email for it to be a scheme (to borrow the impeachment kangaroo-court's logic). And even when they do spell it out in text messages and in emails, that doesn't count because... look, over there, Russians!
No bias, but Peter Strzok was thrown off of Mueller's team for bias when the text messages were revealed 🤔
 

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
8,563
10,815
955
I can't imagine there is much to celebrate with 17 seriouse violations, some done maliciously. Did any of these people who made these errors get fired or suffer any consequences or are they still kicking around to make more "errors".

Kinda funny that the FBI can't make all these "errors" to spy on people and up turn their lives. I am sure posters would love it if the FBI made 17 errors on them and ended up investigating them, throwing their associates in jail and possibly ruining their lives. Its great the FBI can make all these errors as long as there was no "political bias".

The irony is that the same people who say Mueller report didn't exonerate Trump, look at the 10 items of obstruction listed by Mueller will ignore the findings in the report and focus on the "political bias" part only.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DunDunDunpachi

desertdroog

Member
Aug 12, 2008
3,550
3,612
1,055
If you applaud the FBI abuse of the FISA application by leaving out exculpatory evidence, then you are an enemy of the Republic and do not care for civil liberties.

You are a stooge of corruption and are supporting law enforcement officials ignoring their ethics. Carry water for these people and this behavior at your own peril, may you never face federal investigations by such a craven group, because you will be memory-holed and locked away with no recourse to right the wrong against you.
 
Last edited:

DunDunDunpachi

Patient MembeR
Apr 18, 2018
18,795
37,827
1,290
USA
dunpachi.com
I can't imagine there is much to celebrate with 17 seriouse violations, some done maliciously. Did any of these people who made these errors get fired or suffer any consequences or are they still kicking around to make more "errors".

Kinda funny that the FBI can't make all these "errors" to spy on people and up turn their lives. I am sure posters would love it if the FBI made 17 errors on them and ended up investigating them, throwing their associates in jail and possibly ruining their lives. Its great the FBI can make all these errors as long as there was no "political bias".

The irony is that the same people who say Mueller report didn't exonerate Trump, look at the 10 items of obstruction listed by Mueller will ignore the findings in the report and focus on the "political bias" part only.
Look, the report could not find any documentation or any first-hand witnesses of political bias being involved, so there was no political bias involved.

Meanwhile, have you heard the rumors about the presumptions from an ambassador about a phone call about corruption in Ukraine that was secretly intended to damage Biden and interfere in the 2020 elections?

Plenty of documentation and first-hand witnesses for Trump's political bias. What, you want evidence that Trump literally asked for a quid pro quo? Is that what the Republican zealots are running with? Heh heh, it should be clear and obvious that Trump abused his power. Stop asking questions.

If you applaud the FBI abuse of the FISA application by leaving out exculpatory evidence, then you are an enemy of the Republic and do not care for civil liberties.

You are a stooge of corruption and are supporting law enforcement officials ignoring their ethics. Carry water for these people and this behavior at your own peril, may you never face federal investigations by such a craven group, because you will be memory-holed and locked away with no recourse to right the wrong against you.
Sounds like a Trump defender to me 🤷‍♀️
 
  • Like
Reactions: cryptoadam

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Feb 9, 2009
37,919
4,840
1,640
Ivanka having a personal relationship with British spy Christopher Steele is something I wasn't expecting.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/ivanka-trump-british-spy-christopher-steele-kremlin-a9240541.html
The news that Christopher Steele knew Ivanka Trump personally, and had discussed working together on foreign business projects, seriously undercuts the claims of the US president and his supporters that the former MI6 officer was motivated by malice when compiling his explosive Russiagate dossier.

There have been rumours of past links between Steele and the Trump camp for months. Now extraordinary details have emerged in a report looking at what prompted investigations into the Kremlin’s interference in the US presidential election.

The report had been ordered by Attorney General William Barr with the express aim of proving probes into such interference were driven by politically partisan bias.

The 476-page document by the inspector general of the Justice Department, Michael Horowitz, dismissed the allegations of bias against the FBI, stating “no political bias or improper motivation influenced the decisions to open” the investigations.

It absolved Steele of “bad faith” in putting together his dossier but also held that there had been a “lack of judgment” on his part in putting forward some of his conclusions.
But the Horowitz report has also given Steele the opportunity to deny in his testimony that he was vindictive towards the Trump family from the start.
The idea was “ridiculous”, insisted the former MI6 officer, stressing that if anything, he was “favourably disposed towards the Trump family before he began his research”. He told Department of Justice officials that he had met “a Trump family member at Trump Tower and ‘been friendly’ with [the family member] for years” even giving that person “a family tartan”.
They were close enough to discuss, in an exchange of emails in 2008, meeting for dinner at a restaurant near Trump Tower in New York.
 
Last edited:
  • LOL
Reactions: crowbrow

dolabla

Member
Oct 9, 2013
4,300
6,015
775
Barr new interview.


"I think our nation was turned on its head for three years based on a completely bogus narrative that was largely fanned and hyped by a completely irresponsible press," Barr said. "I think there were gross abuses…and inexplicable behavior that is intolerable in the FBI."

"I think that leaves open the possibility that there was bad faith."
Barr argued that Horowitz didn't look very hard, and that the inspector general accepted the FBI's explanations at face value.

"All he said was, people gave me an explanation and I didn't find anything to contradict it…he hasn't decided the issue of improper motive," Barr said. "I think we have to wait until the full investigation is done."
Barr said he stood by his assertion that the Trump campaign was spied on, noting that the FBI used confidential informants who recorded conversations with Trump campaign officials.

"It was clearly spied upon," he said. "That's what electronic surveillance is … going through people's emails, wiring people up."

"From a civil liberties standpoint, the greatest danger to our free system is that the incumbent government use the apparatus of the state … both to spy on political opponents but also to use them in a way that could affect the outcome of an election," Barr said. He added that this was the first time in history that "counterintelligence techniques," were used against a presidential campaign.
But the biggest outrage, Barr said, is that the FBI's "case collapsed after the election and they never told the court and they kept on getting these renewals."
On Monday, Durham added his voice to Barr's criticism of the IG report, saying, "Last month, we advised the inspector general that we do not agree with some of the report’s conclusions as to predication and how the F.B.I. case was opened."

"It was necessary to avoid public confusion," he said. "It was sort of being reported by the press that the issue of predication was sort of done and over. I think it was important for people to understand that Durham's work was not being preempted and that Durham was doing something different."
 
  • Like
Reactions: tfur and Sign

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
Feb 9, 2009
37,919
4,840
1,640
Barr new interview.

I would have preferred someone completely neutral instead of Barr. His appointee has good credentials, but there could be some bias based on who had nominated him in 2017. I'm hoping he does his job properly, whether good or bad for either side. Barr has been going forward with revisionist history comments that don't come across as something a neutral civil servant should be saying.
 

dragonfart28

Banned
Jun 12, 2009
5,106
736
1,080
It's time to stop wasting tax dollars on this obsession with the FBI.

This report was completely unnecessary and we all knew this from the very beginning.

The administration is missing out on promoting its new free trade agreement.
 
Last edited:

autoduelist

Member
Aug 30, 2014
11,531
18,365
855
Probably the best breakdown i've found.


Ends up being pretty balanced since Shapiro was a never trumper who still dislikes Trump. A good chunk is about how utterly hollow the impeachment charges are, and how they are inventing crimes to meet behavior, and he also digs into the report. He points out why this ig report likely wouldn't have any smoking guns, and why Durham is more likely to find anything significant, if anything is to be found.
 

Joe T.

Member
Oct 3, 2004
2,743
3,213
1,705
Montreal, Quebec
Ivanka having a personal relationship with British spy Christopher Steele is something I wasn't expecting.
"They were close enough to discuss, in an exchange of emails in 2008, meeting for dinner at a restaurant near Trump Tower in New York."

If that's what passes for "extraordinary" and being "close"... :messenger_grimmacing_
 

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
8,563
10,815
955
"They were close enough to discuss, in an exchange of emails in 2008, meeting for dinner at a restaurant near Trump Tower in New York."

If that's what passes for "extraordinary" and being "close"... :messenger_grimmacing_
Probably just hoping to pull a Hunter Biden and get in on that Ivanka poon if Jared happen to pass away. Or does that only work when its your brother ?
 

autoduelist

Member
Aug 30, 2014
11,531
18,365
855
It's time to stop wasting tax dollars on this obsession with the FBI.

This report was completely unnecessary and we all knew this from the very beginning.

The administration is missing out on promoting its new free trade agreement.
The fbi just spent years on russia collusion. It's worth investigating how it started, as this IG report itself shows despite your biased thread title. And we now know russiagate was effectively unwarranted and a result of major breakdowns in procedure and other errors, which Horowitz claims were not politically based but others seem to.

He claims it wasn't politically motivated, yet, as even the quotes I've posted above show, they knew Steele was "desperate" that Trump didn't win, knew his dossier was essentially trash, knew it was paid for by the DNC, and yet still used it to do everything we've been saying happened for years. The only thing different is Horowitz claims it wasn't politically motivated, and Shapiro explains why he may have been forced to come to this conclusion.

Your entire thread is gaslighting. The report is damning of the FBI.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sign and cryptoadam

dragonfart28

Banned
Jun 12, 2009
5,106
736
1,080
It stands to reason that the longer Republicans waste tax dollars by unjustly badmouthing the FBI instead of working, the more they compromise their talking points about Democrats wasting tax dollars (even though the impeachment inquiry is completely justified).
 

cryptoadam

... and he cannot lie
Feb 21, 2018
8,563
10,815
955
It stands to reason that the longer Republicans waste tax dollars by unjustly badmouthing the FBI instead of working, the more they compromise their talking points about Democrats wasting tax dollars (even though the impeachment inquiry is completely justified).
How many years and dollars do they have until they catch up to the Mueller report?

When these investigations get to 3 years and 30 Million dollars we can talk.