Innocent 20 year old's life effectively destroyed by sex offender registry

[LuchaShaq]

14 is old enough to know false rape accusations can fuck someone's life up literally forever. People who falsely accuse someone of rape are as bad as rapists in my eyes. Using power to violate someone and fuck up their lives.

 

[Count Dookkake]

So I'd gather you equate the reputational harm associated with being falsely labeled as a rapist to be equal to the all the harm suffered by a rape victim? But how does that balance, since being a rape victim has its own social stigma?

Yes, to the first question.

Being pegged a "rapist" has its own social stigma, to the second.

Right, but that's your position, not mine.

Right, I don't expect everyone to be as ethical as I am. I just try to encourage thought.

 

[Aizu_Itsuko]

This guys should be removed from that registry, get some compensation for all the trouble and receive a public apology at the very least.

Also destroying someone else's life like this should be punishable by law.

 

[natethegreat409]

I was accused of raping my neighbor. I was like 12 years old. I didn't even know why I was being asked all these questions and having to go to meetings with human resources or something.

Apparently the mothers boyfriend raped him, and they all decided to blame me for it. Fucking trailer trash pieces of shit. Luckily nothing came out of it and they just left me alone after a few interviews.

 

[Balphon]

Yes, to the first question.

Being pegged a "rapist" has its own social stigma, to the second.

And you think that stigma alone equals every injury suffered by rape victims? Fair enough, if so.

Right, I don't expect everyone to be as ethical as I am. I just try to encourage thought.

Then you should encourage yourself to think beyond this case.

 

[KingDizzi]

He looks like a rapist to me. Just sayin.

“Eger didn’t rely rape me . . . in fact we did it befor. Eger was a friend of mine befor this even happend . . . but now it just seems that I lied about Eger. . . . I will never forgive myself.”

She's clearly mentally retarded and he took advantage, poor girl.

 

[Parallax]

He looks like a rapist to me. Just sayin.


She's clearly mentally retarded and he took advantage, poor girl.

huh, your troll-fu is weak

 

[Count Dookkake]

And you think that stigma alone equals every injury suffered by rape victims? Fair enough, if so.

1) Injury is not a prerequisite to rape. Stop fiddling with definitions to make your case.

2) Convicts and even those merely accused suffer all types of injury, some of which includes rape. If you want to shoehorn "injury" into your position, then it goes here as well.

 

[onken]

It makes me sick to my stomach but I'll echo what's been said already. The girl would never have come clean if she could expect a jail sentence or public shaming for doing so. Due to the nature of the crime, chances are there's no other way for the truth to come out other than a confession from the woman.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

Because there is more solid evidence for other crimes that are as heinous as rape. Murder, battery, assault with a deadly weapon and the like are kinda hard to fake.
But anyone who had rough sex can cry 'rape' afterwards, the 'evidence' is seemingly there. And once accused and confronted with 'evidence', it's hard to clear your name.
It's disgusting, really.

Biased nature aside, I think this post pretty much cuts to the heart of the matter. Proving nonconsent is a terribly difficult thing to do, particularly under the stringency of the modern criminal justice system which places every procedural advantage in the hands of the defendant and requires proof beyond a reasonable doubt of guilt. It's not difficult to prove such in the paradigmatic example of rape- struggle at gunpoint in a dark alley- but very difficult to do so when the crime is not as paradigmatic or when the victim isn't perfect.

Because the alleged victim's testimony is often the only evidence for a crime, the alternative to believing anyone who has rough sex and afterward cries rape is to believe no one who has rough sex and afterward cries rape. This denies justice to women that do have rough sex that are raped, and it essentially tells potential rapists that they can rape with impunity under certain circumstances. No hiding in an alley and forcing women at gunpoint, but if you're in a committed relationship, or if she consented to, say, oral sex but not intercourse? The justice system is essentially saying, you'll never get a rape charge to stick, so go for it! That's not even dealing with the fact that rape victims who are not perfect- who have sex promiscuously, in ways different from the mainstream, or whatever- are often disbelieved in the case of rape accusations.

So, for example, common law approaches to sexual assault often require proof of a struggle in order to prove nonconsent. Defining the offense in such a way makes it much easier to avoid false convictions, while at the same time placing responsibility on the victim to prevent her own victimization and possibly opening up the victim to greater violence in the course of her resistance. So, what should win?

I'd rather ten guilty men walk free than a single innocent be convicted, so I'm generally in favor of pro-defendant criminal justice legislation. However, I find it difficult to credit that there are symmetrical motivations in this case. The incentives to falsely accuse people of rape are so meager and the incentive for some people to perform sexual violence so great that I find it difficult to believe that there is an epidemic of false rape accusations, but science tells us that sexual violence is still a significant problem. In brief, such a change would lead to far more than 10 guilty people going to prison for every false accusation, and I think given the way the current law serves to underdeter rape in certain circumstances, such a change is justified.

 

[Balphon]

1) Injury is not a prerequisite to rape. Stop fiddling with definitions to make your case.

Eh? Without injury there is no crime. Though I suspect you're assuming the word injury implies physical harm/violence.

2) Convicts and even those merely accused suffer all types of injury, some of which includes rape. If you want to shoehorn "injury" into your position, then it goes here as well.

Fair enough. So the spectre of physical violence in prison is enough to balance the gravity of these offenses for you, then?

 

[Devolution]

You have to direct your frustration at the atmosphere, pressure, parents and culture that would put the girl in a situation where she felt the need to lie about consensual sex. In a culture where fathers still "own" their daughters and girls/women are slut shamed, this will be an occurrence. Although I do worry about how whenever a story crops up like this, it's suddenly happening everywhere, unavoidable and the reason some GAFfers don't get laid. Fuckin' please.

14 is old enough to know false rape accusations can fuck someone's life up literally forever. People who falsely accuse someone of rape are as bad as rapists in my eyes. Using power to violate someone and fuck up their lives.

Uh no, try again.

 

[Complex Shadow]

man what the fuck is this shit. girl needs to be put on trial.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Eh? Without injury there is no crime. Though I suspect you're assuming the word injury implies physical harm.

The way you slipped the word in to the argument, only on one side, lead me to infer that you were referring to the effects of physical violence. If this is not the case, then just omit the word. As it is, it comes across as editorializing. There are "injuries" on both sides.

Fair enough. So the spectre of physical violence in prison is enough to balance gravity of these offenses for you, then?

No, I did not say that. It is merely a part of it.

Also, not only referring to prison violence.

 

[CrankyJay]

14 is old enough to know false rape accusations can fuck someone's life up literally forever. People who falsely accuse someone of rape are as bad as rapists in my eyes. Using power to violate someone and fuck up their lives.

Erm...no it's not. Think this one through.

Do you think being falsely accused of murder is just as bad as murder?

 

[Balphon]

The way you slipped the word in to the argument, only on one side, lead me to infer that you were referring to the effects of physical violence. If this is not the case, then just omit the word. As it is, it comes across as editorializing. There are "injuries" on both sides.

Of course there are; the falsely accused is no less a victim than the raped. Where we diverge philosophically, I think, is in equating the gravity of the crime perpetrated on both to the point that an offender in either case would deserve the same or a substantially similar punishment. I simply don't see it; one is a crime primarily against reputation whereas the other is, even at its most basic level, a crime against personal safety. I just can't see how the two are comparable.

And even if we do get past this point, I think you're gravely underestimating the barriers facing real victims in reporting rape.

 

[GamerSoul]

Erm...no it's not. Think this one through.

Ehhh, I kinda see where he's coming from. Younger teens these days think they're all grown and mature and know everything even when they in fact don't. I doubt she was thinking about every consequence at that point including the guy not even being able to fill out an application without including the rape charge that he is accused of.

 

[Devolution]

Ehhh, I kinda see where he's coming from. Younger teens these days think they're all grown and mature and know everything even when they in fact don't. I doubt she was thinking about every consequence at that point including the guy not even being able to fill out an application without including the rape charge that he is accused of.

The logic still fails as rape is a violation of physical space as well. The comparison is not apt, and frankly insulting. What you have to get at is why she felt the need to lie, not the fact that she did lie. Deal with the stigma that would result in someone feeling the need to lie about rape in the first place. I understand this is a male centric board, but come on with some of these replies.

 

[Count Dookkake]

Of course there are; the falsely accused is no less a victim than the raped. Where we diverge philosophically, I think, is in equating the gravity of the crime perpetrated on both to the point that an offender in either case would deserve the same or a substantially similar punishment. I simply don't see it; one is a crime primarily against reputation whereas the other is, even at its most basic level, a crime against personal safety. I just can't see how the two are comparable.

And even if we do get past this point, I think you're gravely underestimating the barriers facing real victims in reporting rape.

IMO, being the recipient of misdirected vigilante justice is a bit more than a "crime against reputation."

 

[ReBurn]

The logic still fails as rape is a violation of physical space as well. The comparison is not apt, and frankly insulting. What you have to get at is why she felt the need to lie, not the fact that she did lie. Deal with the stigma that would result in someone feeling the need to lie about rape in the first place. I understand this is a male centric board, but come on with some of these replies.

I get what you're saying, but someone went to prison because of the lie. And is on the sex offender registry. Is he just and unfortunate side effect of a culture in which people feel they can't be honest?

 

[CrankyJay]

Ehhh, I kinda see where he's coming from. Younger teens these days think they're all grown and mature and know everything even when they in fact don't. I doubt she was thinking about every consequence at that point including the guy not even being able to fill out an application without including the rape charge that he is accused of.

I would argue with all of the potential psychological, emotional, and physical issues a rape victim can endure, that they are infinitely more at risk of having their life ruined than someone falsely accused of rape.

"Ruined" is such a relative term anyway.

 

[Balphon]

IMO, being the recipient of misdirected vigilante justice is a bit more than a "crime against reputation."

Come on, now. Not every falsely convicted person is going to be beaten by an angry mob. Going down the road of pitting the worst possible examples against each other isn't going to be particularly helpful in setting a broad standard.

 

[Devolution]

I get what you're saying, but someone went to prison because of the lie. And is on the sex offender registry. Is he just and unfortunate side effect of a culture in which people feel they can't be honest?

No, are real rape victims who can't come forward just a side effect of that too? None of these things happens in a void, and if you consider it a real problem, then why not think about how the culture that would lead a girl or woman to do such a thing in the first place. Just as certain attitudes, messages and insidious sexism drives a culture that keeps victims silent, it also makes some lie about consensual sex.

 

[squidyj]

You have to direct your frustration at the atmosphere, pressure, parents and culture that would put the girl in a situation where she felt the need to lie about consensual sex. In a culture where fathers still "own" their daughters and girls/women are slut shamed, this will be an occurrence. Although I do worry about how whenever a story crops up like this, it's suddenly happening everywhere, unavoidable and the reason some GAFfers don't get laid. Fuckin' please.




Uh no, try again.

Thank you for constantly and consistently reinterpreting every issue wherein a young man is victimized and/or disadvantaged into a situation where a young woman is the victim. At the same time you work to de-legitimize the suffering of this young man by making crude allusions as to the motives of GAF posters.

Excusing her for such societal issues may very well be reasonable but it's so heavily tied into narratives of crime for women that I can't see it happen without shaking my head. "Oh she was forced into it" "she was under the influence of a man" "she's sick, she's unstable, she needs help". When the situation and behaviour clearly contradict these narratives women do seem to suffer undue punishment in the court system but when they yield to that dominant discourse they tend to be treated lightly in comparison to male offenders.

You suggest a structure of society that people should be angry at that has 'fathers owning their daughters' yet offer this as an excusal of her actions thereby conspiring to rob her of responsibility for her actions and thus her agency, her ability to make her own decisions in the world just as a boy of her age might.

As to the issue at hand I echo the sentiment that it would be difficult, in a practical sense, to make it tough on false accusers without also creating a hostile environment for legitimate victims. Likewise, however, false accusals have a similar damaging effect on the willingness of victims to come forward. The fear that they simply will not be believed is a huge deterrent against victims coming forward.

 

[Count Dookkake]

The logic still fails as rape is a violation of physical space as well. The comparison is not apt, and frankly insulting. What you have to get at is why she felt the need to lie, not the fact that she did lie. Deal with the stigma that would result in someone feeling the need to lie about rape in the first place. I understand this is a male centric board, but come on with some of these replies.

Dude, you keep changing your avatar. This is very confusing.

But seriously, the stigma would be lessened if we could convince every victim to step forward and face the unpleasantness of an investigation into the matter. There are resources and people out there to help them, if they do not have a helpful family or peer group.

It is a good thing that more men, especially powerful or admirable ones, are comfortable talking about their experiences as victims. I hope that this normalizes (not sure if that is the exact right word) the experience of coming out as a victim.

 

[akira28]

What a shock, lots of the usual GAF misogyny in this thread already. What the girl did was obviously wrong, but she was only 14 and came clean fairly quickly so I'm not ready to condemn her.

Actually she deserves condemnation, regardless of her remorse or inexperience. She made serious allegations that aren't going away without some real difficult action. This isn't a matter of clearing up an innocent misunderstanding. This guy's citizenship is basically fucked.

Seriously...a false allegation of rape is one of the worst things you can do. Can you imagine the betrayal?

 

[h0pper]

girl should serve double the time he did in an adult penetentiary and be place on Virginia's Huge Cunt Registry for life.

that or skin her alive. girls who claim to be raped when it is consensual deserve nothing better. I personally know someone that this happened to and he spent a year in prison. ruined his life, fucked his future. I have no sympathy for these whores.

 

[Devolution]

Thank you for constantly and consistently reinterpreting every issue wherein a young man is victimized and/or disadvantaged into a situation where a young woman is the victim. At the same time you work to de-legitimize the suffering of this young man by making crude allusions as to the motives of GAF posters.

Excusing her for such societal issues may very well be reasonable but it's so heavily tied into narratives of crime for women that I can't see it happen without shaking my head. "Oh she was forced into it" "she was under the influence of a man" "she's sick, she's unstable, she needs help". When the situation and behaviour clearly contradict these narratives women do seem to suffer undue punishment in the court system but when they yield to that dominant discourse they tend to be treated lightly in comparison to male offenders.

You suggest a structure of society that people should be angry at that has 'fathers owning their daughters' yet offer this as an excusal of her actions thereby conspiring to rob her of responsibility for her actions and thus her agency, her ability to make her own decisions in the world just as a boy of her age might.

As to the issue at hand I echo the sentiment that it would be difficult, in a practical sense, to make it tough on false accusers without also creating a hostile environment for legitimate victims. Likewise, however, false accusals have a similar damaging effect on the willingness of victims to come forward. The fear that they simply will not be believed is a huge deterrent against victims coming forward.

One can talk about the greater societal issues at work without excusing people. Your whole post is unnecessary. Nowhere did I say she's blameless in any of this, just that it goes beyond "what a lying bitch." Look at the post above mine for instance. Great post.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Thats messed up. Even at 14 you shouldn't do that.

 

[Devolution]

Dude, you keep changing your avatar. This is very confusing.

But seriously, the stigma would be lessened if we could convince every victim to step forward and face the unpleasantness of an investigation into the matter. There are resources and people out there to help them, if they do not have a helpful family or peer group.

It is a good thing that more men, especially powerful or admirable ones, are comfortable talking about their experiences as victims. I hope that this normalizes (not sure if that is the exact right word) the experience of coming out as a victim.

You can try and convince them all you want but the way victims are currently treated is awful that's why they think they're better off keeping quiet. Doubly so if they're male. Look what happened to that 17 yr old who was a Sandusky victim.

 

[ReBurn]

No, are real rape victims who can't come forward just a side effect of that too? None of these things happens in a void, and if you consider it a real problem, then why not think about how the culture that would lead a girl or woman to do such a thing in the first place. Just as certain attitudes, messages and insidious sexism drives a culture that keeps victims silent, it also makes some lie about consensual sex.

There is no real rape victim in this case, so it doesn't matter how real rape victims fit into this context. The victim in this case is not the 14 year old girl. It is the young man who has had his life ruined because, for whatever reason, a girl felt that she needed to lie to protect herself. He was run over by a system that is easily exploited and was exploited.

I get that there's a macro issue going on where women are put into situations where they feel they need to lie. But it hardly makes it OK when one of those lies has devastating consequences for another person. Deflecting away from the real tragedy here to make a point that women are victimized to the point where they have to lie is sad.

 

[squidyj]

One can talk about the greater societal issues at work without excusing people. Your whole post is unnecessary. Nowhere did I say she's blameless in any of this, just that it goes beyond "what a lying bitch." Look at the post above mine for instance. Great post.

The one that calls for her to be skinned alive? I'm being facetious but I'm not really sure which post you're referring to.

 

[Mumei]

There is no real rape victim in this case, so it doesn't matter how real rape victims fit into this context. The victim in this case is not the 14 year old girl. It is the young man who has had his life ruined because, for whatever reason, a girl felt that she needed to lie to protect herself. He was run over by a system that is easily exploited and was exploited.

I get that there's a macro issue going on where women are put into situations where they feel they need to lie. But it hardly makes it OK when one of those lies has devastating consequences for another person. Deflecting away from the real tragedy here to make a point that women are victimized to the point where they have to lie is sad.

... She isn't saying that it makes it 'okay.' I don't know where some of you are getting that idea.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

No, are real rape victims who can't come forward just a side effect of that too? None of these things happens in a void, and if you consider it a real problem, then why not think about how the culture that would lead a girl or woman to do such a thing in the first place. Just as certain attitudes, messages and insidious sexism drives a culture that keeps victims silent, it also makes some lie about consensual sex.

I agree with this, but at the same time, that doesn't excuse the actions of those who DO lie. There are systemic reasons that just about any crime occurs, but we still believe that it's important to punish those who commit them.

I think what the Count is basically arguing is that we need to encourage a culture where victims of rape feel free to come forward without societal reprisal but also make sure that it's understood that lying about it cannot be tolerated, for it is equally (or at least almost) as harmful to the victim and is, as he pointed out, a sex crime.

It will be tricky, yes, but I don't think that it's "insulting" to equate rape with being falsely accused of rape, in the sense that both are deep-cutting violations of a person's rights and liberty. Rape is worse, I'll admit (though being known as a rapist in prison can make you a marked man, an open target for the sort of violence that might bridge the gap), but the comparison IS understandable.

Edit: You may not intend to excuse her actions, but I challenge you to go back, reread what you wrote, and tell me that it doesn't come off that way. I completely agree with you about the treating of systemic issues, but what you wrote comes off as almost the opposite of victim blaming: offender excusing. One could argue that there are likely social issues that lead men to commit rape, and people would be perfectly right to call the man an animal. Similarly, I don't think calling this girl a lying bitch is inappropriate. Treat the problem, but call it what it is.

 

[squidyj]

... She isn't saying that it makes it 'okay.' I don't know where some of you are getting that idea.

If I say "pie is the best" and you respond to me by saying "I like cake" you haven't actually said anything about pie but it is INFERRED that you prefer cake to pie in the context of the discussion.


So if I say. "this girl did a terrible thing" and you respond to me saying "society does terrible things" the inference to be drawn is.....

 

[Devolution]

Rape is worse, I'll admit (though being known as a rapist in prison can make you a marked man, an open target for the sort of violence that might bridge the gap), but the comparison IS understandable.

I can understand the being a marked man in prison comparison and that would be true. But otherwise, they're not the same.

 

[Mumei]

If I say "pie is the best" and you respond to me by saying "I like cake" you haven't actually said anything about pie but it is INFERRED that you prefer cake to pie in the context of the discussion.

Can you transfer that into the terms of this discussion for me? I'm afraid I don't know what the cake and the pie are supposed to represent.

 

[Balphon]

I agree with this, but at the same time, that doesn't excuse the actions of those who DO lie. There are systemic reasons that just about any crime occurs, but we still believe that it's important to punish those who commit them.

I think what the Count is basically arguing is that we need to encourage a culture where victims of rape feel free to come forward without societal reprisal but also make sure that it's understood that lying about it cannot be tolerated, for it is equally (or at least almost) as harmful to the victim and is, as he pointed out, a sex crime.

It will be tricky, yes, but I don't think that it's "insulting" to equate rape with being falsely accused of rape, in the sense that both are deep-cutting violations of a person's rights and liberty. Rape is worse, I'll admit (though being known as a rapist in prison can make you a marked man, an open target for the sort of violence that might bridge the gap), but the comparison IS understandable.

The problem with this argument is that it seems to assume that every false accusation of rape is going to lead to a conviction, placement on a sex offender registry, and overly harsh post-conviction relief standards precluding retrial and/or expungement/vacation of the conviction. Not every false report case is this case. Stop assuming they are.

 

[Count Dookkake]

You can try and convince them all you want but the way victims are currently treated is awful that's why they think they're better off keeping quiet. Doubly so if they're male. Look what happened to that 17 yr old who was a Sandusky victim.

I get what you are saying. However, the only way for anything to get better is for more victims to step forward. The ignorant may be shocked to realize that they come in all types and can't be so easily brushed aside, demeaned, obstructed or whatever as a class of people with which they have nothing in common.

In conclusion, let's look at one of the major differences between a murder victim and a rape victim. The latter can still talk. I encourage all victims to do that.

 

[squidyj]

I get what you are saying. However, the only way for anything to get better is for more victims to step forward. The ignorant may be shocked to realize that they come in all types and can't be so easily brushed aside, demeaned, obstructed or whatever as something with which they have nothing in common.

In conclusion, let's look at one of the major differences between a murder victim and a rape victim. The latter can still talk. I encourage all victims to do that.

I would definitely like to echo that sentiment.

 

[Snowman Prophet of Doom]

The problem with this argument is that it seems to assume that every false accusation of rape is going to lead to a conviction, placement on a sex offender registry, and overly harsh post-conviction relief standards precluding retrial and/or expungement/vacation of the conviction. Not every false report case is this case. Stop assuming they are.

This is true, but the fact is that they can. And even if it doesn't lead to those things, it's likely to at least create some social stigma for the person.

Devolution: I'm not saying that they're the same, just that they're both very, very bad. There's a huge difference in kind, but I think the difference in degree is smaller than you're admitting.

 

[GorillaJu]

He isn't innocent.

He's not guilty.

 

[Balphon]

This is true, but the fact is that they can. And even if it doesn't lead to those things, it's likely to at least create some social stigma for the person.

True, and that's why making a false report is and should be a crime.

I will, however, echo the sentiment that the ultimate goal is to create an environment where real crimes are reported and false accusations are prevented/adequately punished is the ultimate goal. The problem is simply how to effect the appropriate balance.

 

[akira28]

girl should serve double the time he did in an adult penetentiary and be place on Virginia's Huge Cunt Registry for life.

that or skin her alive. girls who claim to be raped when it is consensual deserve nothing better. I personally know someone that this happened to and he spent a year in prison. ruined his life, fucked his future. I have no sympathy for these whores.

your a nut.

 

[GamerSoul]

The logic still fails as rape is a violation of physical space as well. The comparison is not apt, and frankly insulting. What you have to get at is why she felt the need to lie, not the fact that she did lie. Deal with the stigma that would result in someone feeling the need to lie about rape in the first place. I understand this is a male centric board, but come on with some of these replies.

Don't get me wrong, they are two different things. I was commenting more on the fact a 14 year wouldn't have the mindset to think everything through. It's the cultural we live in for sure that caused her to lie coupled with her not wanting to get in trouble with her mom. It's still a pretty messed up thing to do a kid, especially if they were friends.

 

[Akainu]

Rape is not the only crime that people may be afraid to report. Why does it get special treatment?

Because of the spread of rape culture, being raped has somehow become worse then killing another person.

This just ruins my day. I hate when crap like this happens. And the worst part is nothing is going to be done to fix it.

 

[WrikaWrek]

Crazy situation.

 

[CrankyJay]

girl should serve double the time he did in an adult penetentiary and be place on Virginia's Huge Cunt Registry for life.

that or skin her alive. girls who claim to be raped when it is consensual deserve nothing better. I personally know someone that this happened to and he spent a year in prison. ruined his life, fucked his future. I have no sympathy for these whores.

I swear, your post would only be more comical if you suggested she gets raped to make up for the false accusation.

 

[Mungular]

thats just fucking horrible

 

[Krev]

Terrible situation.
The girl sounds like a naive idiot. Sad that she felt the need to lie rather than own up to consensual sex with the boy, sadder still that she betrayed her friend so strongly out of selfishness, tragic that his life has been fucked as a result of the whole mess.

girl should serve double the time he did in an adult penetentiary and be place on Virginia's Huge Cunt Registry for life.

that or skin her alive. girls who claim to be raped when it is consensual deserve nothing better. I personally know someone that this happened to and he spent a year in prison. ruined his life, fucked his future. I have no sympathy for these whores.

Ugh.