• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Inside Microsoft’s Plans For The Next Xbox

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
11,269
15,966
915
Of course. I should have been more specific. What I was trying to say was that the Xbox as a brand, and as a gaming platform, has become less valuable as a result of Microsoft choosing to Branch out to other platforms, including windows.

For example, there aren't any true exclusives to the Xbox console anymore. So that means that anyone who owns a gaming PC will not have to buy another Xbox console in the future to play those games.

Software is key for them. More people playing equals more revenue.

They are trying to branch out of the traditional model. For example, my buddy only has a ps4 and PC and got a couple months of game pass to play gears 4 and Sea of theives. Microsoft never would of gotten a dime out of him before.
 

Riven326

Banned
Mar 25, 2019
6,300
13,234
770
United States
Software is key for them. More people playing equals more revenue.

They are trying to branch out of the traditional model. For example, my buddy only has a ps4 and PC and got a couple months of game pass to play gears 4 and Sea of theives. Microsoft never would of gotten a dime out of him before.
But when they're offering gamepass for a dollar or two, how are they making more money than with the traditional model?
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
11,269
15,966
915
But when they're offering gamepass for a dollar or two, how are they making more money than with the traditional model?

Like I said it's money they wouldn't of gotten anyway because doesn't have an Xbox. And not everybody cancels. He kept it for 2 months so it was something like $11.

Mutipliy that times the people that do the same.
 

CJY

Banned
Jan 8, 2016
2,561
5,636
725
Didn't even bother reading the article, which just demonstrates how little I care about Xbox or whatever they are doing next. I only care about PS5 and how powerful the next Xbox will be relative to that. I couldn't care less about the power of the next Xbox in isolation. lol
 
Jan 29, 2019
6,722
7,463
520
Can we wait until we have very specific information? other than the filler text, there is nothing anyone who paid attention does not already know.
 

somerset

Member
Apr 15, 2019
439
613
420
Again, to save people time, MS is building the best traditional PC like console for 2D (not VR) gaming current AMD and TSMC tech will allow, for a highish watermark initial console price.

*No* MS ain't involved in any 'magic' nonsense tech this time- including crap about 'cloud computing'. Just the best possible 4K box, and a killer cheap 1080P box.

Old documents in the tech world, as any experineced expert could tell you, are *garbage*. What someone 'thought' in 2012 is utterly outdated trash in 2019.

What the Xbox Next will be will be exactly what AMD can build *today* for delivery at the end of the year. Which to technically informed people (ie., *not* any gaming 'journalist' or popular Youtuber) is defined by current trends in process tech, and component pricing and availability.

Xbox Next will be a 'gaming PC' that rivals the best true gaming PCs you can build today, with the best CPU and GPU solution. But it will features *vastly* better busses than any PC, with vastly better use of flash memory (the PC SSD and NVMe standards are insanely non-optimal).

But weird tricks that the owner cares about- fuggetaboutit. Xbox Next follows the same philosophy as the Xbox 1X (well-duh). Xbox 1080P is the affordable cost-reduced solution.

Steaming games is *idiotic* as a frontline business. Its real use is as part of games promotion and advertising- like Twitch. A possible way to allow someone to 'demo' a game before buying and installing it properly.

Google's Stadia challenges nothing and no-one. It is part of the alt-left Orwellian control of society that only works if/when the actually ownership of games is *banned* in the name of perfect game censorship- so only state approved games will stream on Stadia. But if/when this happens, traditional consoles are dead anyway- like when prohibition caused all 'legal' pubs to close down.
 

Geki-D

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
4,132
5,184
730
It's certainly not a winning formula for digital subscription services, where number of users is everything.
Why, praytell, would number of subs be more important to a company than money earned?

Sony are making 3 times more than MS on a service that apparently has over 9 times less users. How is more profit than the competition with only a fraction of the install base not a "winning formula"?

With MS making so little off of such a massive install base, I seriously question how exactly they're counting those subs. With only about 5 bucks between the monthly fee of each service, GP must have a massive amount of inactive users being counted in there (like 70%).

If Sony can get 141 million out of 700k subs and MS can only get 40 million out of 9.5 million subs, then I'd say Sony are clearly doing something right that MS aren't...

How anyone can come to another conclusion is mind boggling.
 
  • Like
Reactions: demigod

Hendrick's

Member
Jan 7, 2014
9,444
16,569
995
Why, praytell, would number of subs be more important to a company than money earned?

Sony are making 3 times more than MS on a service that apparently has over 9 times less users. How is more profit than the competition with only a fraction of the install base not a "winning formula"?

With MS making so little off of such a massive install base, I seriously question how exactly they're counting those subs. With only about 5 bucks between the monthly fee of each service, GP must have a massive amount of inactive users being counted in there (like 70%).

If Sony can get 141 million out of 700k subs and MS can only get 40 million out of 9.5 million subs, then I'd say Sony are clearly doing something right that MS aren't...

How anyone can come to another conclusion is mind boggling.
You are short sighted and don't understand the business model. I don't feel like explaining it, but if you are curious go study what Netflix has done.
 

Geki-D

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
4,132
5,184
730
You are short sighted and don't understand the business model. I don't feel like explaining it
Because you can't and you probably shouldn't make such claims if you can't back them up.

MS are in no way following in the footsteps of Netflix. Netflix was never making less than the competition with a bloated user count full of dead accounts. Netflix got to where they are because they have the highest attach rate and are making more money allowing them to fund/buy more exclusive shows which in turn attracts more users.

Meanwhile PS Now's attach rate seems to be the highest whilst GamePass is apparently god awful. PS Now has about 6 times more games than GP too. It would seem MS are the ones hardly competing.

But hey, at least they got that bloated user count from free/cheap trials people seem to cancel once they need to pay full price. That's impressive (so long as you don't mention the details and you can bet MS sure as hell aren't going to).
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
11,269
15,966
915
Because you can't and you probably shouldn't make such claims if you can't back them up.

MS are in no way following in the footsteps of Netflix. Netflix was never making less than the competition with a bloated user count full of dead accounts. Netflix got to where they are because they have the highest attach rate and are making more money allowing them to fund/buy more exclusive shows which in turn attracts more users.

Meanwhile PS Now's attach rate seems to be the highest whilst GamePass is apparently god awful. PS Now has about 6 times more games than GP too. It would seem MS are the ones hardly competing.

But hey, at least they got that bloated user count from free/cheap trials people seem to cancel once they need to pay full price. That's impressive (so long as you don't mention the details and you can bet MS sure as hell aren't going to).

You know Netflix has been burning through cash for years right?

Maybe try a different comparison
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hendrick's

Geki-D

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
4,132
5,184
730
You know Netflix has been burning through cash for years right?

Maybe try a different comparison
Because of what they spend, not because people aren't subbing which is GP's case. Their actual earnings are climbing ($4.52 billion in Q1 2019) but they're burning money on content, real estate and infrastructure along with other stuff. Their subs are also growing which, with the increased earnings, show that people are keeping their subs. Gamepass is like the polar opposite of this.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
11,269
15,966
915
Because of what they spend, not because people aren't subbing which is GP's case. Their actual earnings are climbing ($4.52 billion in Q1 2019) but they're burning money on content, real estate and infrastructure along with other stuff. Their subs are also growing which, with the increased earnings, show that people are keeping their subs. Gamepass is like the polar opposite of this.

Lol it's not but ok. Microsofts entire strategy right now for Xbox is building content....just like Netflix.
 
Last edited:

Alx

Member
Jan 22, 2007
19,281
1,831
1,520
Is this the Microsoft that had led nearly all of last generation before falling to Sony's late push?

It's much better to be in this situation than the other way around. You're in a strong position while in the lead (getting better support, having the stronger position for negotiation, cumulating income,....). It's not like a race where you only check the score at the finish line, it's more like "Tokyo Extreme Racer" : the longer you keep the lead, the more you earn.
 

Geki-D

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
4,132
5,184
730
Lol it's not but ok. Microsofts entire strategy right now for Xbox is building content....just like Netflix.
How is it not? Hold on, seeing as Hendrick's got blown the fuck out on this, you wanna actually try and explain how GP has "millions", seemingly 9.5 million subs yet they're making so little?

I get that they're aiming for more content but whilst I recognise your faith in their distant future, I'm dealing with the here & now. Right now they have "millions" of subs. Right now they're only making about 40 million to Sony's 140 million with 700k subs and a fiver in price difference between them. Care to explain how this is possible without concluding that their numbers are bloated with inactive accounts?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: demigod

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
11,269
15,966
915
How is it not? Hold on, seeing as Hendrick's got blown the fuck out on this, you wanna actually try and explain how GP has "millions", seemingly 9.5 million subs yet they're making so little?

I get that they're aiming for more content but whilst I recognise your faith in their distant future, I'm dealing with the here & now. Right now they have "millions" of subs. Right now they're only making about 40 million to Sony's 140 million with 700k subs and a fiver in price difference between them. Care to explain how this is possible without concluding that their numbers are bloated with inactive accounts?
First off don't assume I share the same opinion as your other exchange.

Second, you're coming to a conclusion based on information that you are speculating and trying to pass it off as fact. So stop with the notion and attit that you're right and maybe you'll have an actual exchange with someone and not sound like a tool.

Third, I never believed the 9.5 million number for a second. All I was saying is that they are definitely looking at the Netflix model and applying it to gamepass in many areas
 
Jan 21, 2019
4,131
4,945
460
Because you can't and you probably shouldn't make such claims if you can't back them up.

MS are in no way following in the footsteps of Netflix. Netflix was never making less than the competition with a bloated user count full of dead accounts. Netflix got to where they are because they have the highest attach rate and are making more money allowing them to fund/buy more exclusive shows which in turn attracts more users.

Meanwhile PS Now's attach rate seems to be the highest whilst GamePass is apparently god awful. PS Now has about 6 times more games than GP too. It would seem MS are the ones hardly competing.

But hey, at least they got that bloated user count from free/cheap trials people seem to cancel once they need to pay full price. That's impressive (so long as you don't mention the details and you can bet MS sure as hell aren't going to).
PlayStation Now has been around since 2014 and is a streaming option. Gamepass came out in 2017 and is the better option as you can download the games rather than stream. I don’t see how gamepass would surpass PlayStation Now when it hasn’t even been out for a full year. You also can’t have Gamepass with a dead Xbox account.

Either this year or next year xCloud is coming also. Microsoft will have 3 subscription services with many ways to play.
 
Last edited:

Geki-D

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
4,132
5,184
730
First off don't assume I share the same opinion as your other exchange.

Second, you're coming to a conclusion based on information that you are speculating and trying to pass it off as fact. So stop with the notion and attit that you're right and maybe you'll have an actual exchange with someone and not sound like a tool.

Third, I never believed the 9.5 million number for a second. All I was saying is that they are definitely looking at the Netflix model and applying it to gamepass in many areas
Whether the 9.5 million number is true or it's actually 2 million, MS has said "millions" and yet they're making less.

The only number that is speculation is the 9.5 million, yet it's pretty irrelevant. Sony has 700k subs, this is a fact, the Superdata revenue numbers is also a fact and MS having "millions" of subs is an apparently fact because MS said so. Finally MS make less on more subs, yet again this is a fact.

I've already addressed their Netflix inspirations; We'll see when they get there.

PlayStation Now has been around since 2014 and is a streaming option. Gamepass came out in 2017 and is the better option as you can download the games rather than stream. I don’t see how gamepass would surpass PlayStation Now when it hasn’t even been out for a full year. You also can’t have Gamepass with a dead Xbox account.
And yet according to MS they have because millions is higher than 700k. The revenue being compared is between a time period where both platforms were available. It's not total revenue, it's money made for that period when GP seemingly already had more subs.

As for the dead accounts, I mean accounts that have canned their GP after the trial. They may still be on Live, but they at some point signed up to GP and then stopped. MS however count them all.
 
Last edited:

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
11,269
15,966
915
Whether the 9.5 million number is true or it's actually 2 million, MS has said "millions" and yet they're making less.

The only number that is speculation is the 9.5 million, yet it's pretty irrelevant. Sony has 700k subs, this is a fact, the Superdata revenue numbers is also a fact and MS having "millions" of subs is an apparently fact because MS said so. Finally MS make less on more subs, yet again this is a fact.

I've already addressed their Netflix inspirations; We'll see when they get there.


And yet according to MS they have because millions is higher than 700k. The revenue being compared is between a time period where both platforms were available. It's not total revenue, it's money made for that period when GP seemingly already had more subs.

As for the dead accounts, I mean accounts that have canned their GP after the trial. They may still be on Live, but they at some point signed up to GP and then stopped. MS however count them all.

You keep saying a lot of things that are facts that aren't.

And you know PlayStation now is significantly more expensive right?
 

Geki-D

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
4,132
5,184
730
You keep saying a lot of things that are facts that aren't.

And you know PlayStation now is significantly more expensive right?
Such as?

Even at double the price, the difference can't be explained because GP's install base is meant to be upward of double that of PS Now.

I'm seeing way too much:

In this thread and very little:

In favor of GP.
 
Last edited:
Jan 21, 2019
4,131
4,945
460
I suppose. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't the number of actual subscribers to Gamepass lower than expected?
I have no clue. They need better games in order for it to be a huge success. I would expect next gen to fix that with their new studios.
 

Ten_Fold

Member
Jan 18, 2017
2,508
2,202
490
Ok Microsoft all you gotta do is get a good price, try to release before the ps5 and bring the games, bring back that early Xbox 360 feels I need lots of good or new IP. I’m not a fan boy for Sony or Nintendo or even Microsoft I just want good games, I love halo/gears but we need some more IP’s in the mix, hopefully those studios they brought will bring something cool.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Geki-D
Dec 1, 2018
1,520
1,240
530
I'm sorry to disappoint people on this leaks but I'm afraid next gen consoles have to be 20-30 teraflops in order to run next gen games at 4k60, what people don't understand n always get it wrong is when they use current games as benchmark for next gen consoles to hit 4k60, because ps5 or nextbox would simply run current games on 4k60 but question is would they be able to run ps5 games at 4k60
 

demigod

Member
Apr 17, 2007
8,707
7,964
1,605
Whether the 9.5 million number is true or it's actually 2 million, MS has said "millions" and yet they're making less.

The only number that is speculation is the 9.5 million, yet it's pretty irrelevant. Sony has 700k subs, this is a fact, the Superdata revenue numbers is also a fact and MS having "millions" of subs is an apparently fact because MS said so. Finally MS make less on more subs, yet again this is a fact.

I've already addressed their Netflix inspirations; We'll see when they get there.


And yet according to MS they have because millions is higher than 700k. The revenue being compared is between a time period where both platforms were available. It's not total revenue, it's money made for that period when GP seemingly already had more subs.

As for the dead accounts, I mean accounts that have canned their GP after the trial. They may still be on Live, but they at some point signed up to GP and then stopped. MS however count them all.

This is where all the Game Pass subs are from. You really can’t gauge how many people are subbed at full price when MS keeps throwing out $1 subs. This is not sustainable. Yeah they count dead accounts too, just like their xbox live MAUs.
 

leo-j

Member
Jun 27, 2018
729
947
380
I'm just pumped for nexgen already. Give be BC PS5 with all ps4 digital and physical games. And you can expect the majority of the ps4 base to upgrade. Especially if it's that rumored 13TF monster with over 20GB of fast ram and a SSD.

I see 0 reason for me to jumpship, especially since sony has a line up of franchises ready for nexgen:

HORIZON 2
GOD OF WAR 2
DAYS GONE 2
SPIDER MAN 2
GHOST OF T 2

etc..... LOL? they have nexgen set.
 

JLMC469

Banned
Feb 6, 2018
1,831
3,699
445
I'm just pumped for nexgen already. Give be BC PS5 with all ps4 digital and physical games. And you can expect the majority of the ps4 base to upgrade. Especially if it's that rumored 13TF monster with over 20GB of fast ram and a SSD.

I'm pretty sure this consoles will be almost identical in terms of specs (360 vs PS3 all over again).

Luckily I will buy both console (at some point) and avoid missing out on great games.
 

Mista

Banned
Nov 21, 2014
20,414
35,345
1,420
Meh, E3 is almost a month away so I'm not hyped about this
Going to wait for E3 instead because there where the big shit will happen
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
11,269
15,966
915
Such as?

Even at double the price, the difference can't be explained because GP's install base is meant to be upward of double that of PS Now.

I'm seeing way too much:

In this thread and very little:

In favor of GP.

Lol riiight. People call you out and you just throw ITS A FACT!

nobody here is even trying to say gamepass is better than now or vice versa. You seem to have an axe to grind. You have one fact. Now made more money. You win that argument that nobody but you seems to care about.

Your "dead accounts" is pure speculating. Not facts.

You said Microsoft are in no way chasing a Netflix style subscription. False. Not a fact.

So there's just a few.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pallas

ph33rknot

Banned
Jan 17, 2018
894
528
335
303
Whether the 9.5 million number is true or it's actually 2 million, MS has said "millions" and yet they're making less.

The only number that is speculation is the 9.5 million, yet it's pretty irrelevant. Sony has 700k subs, this is a fact, the Superdata revenue numbers is also a fact and MS having "millions" of subs is an apparently fact because MS said so. Finally MS make less on more subs, yet again this is a fact.

I've already addressed their Netflix inspirations; We'll see when they get there.


And yet according to MS they have because millions is higher than 700k. The revenue being compared is between a time period where both platforms were available. It's not total revenue, it's money made for that period when GP seemingly already had more subs.

As for the dead accounts, I mean accounts that have canned their GP after the trial. They may still be on Live, but they at some point signed up to GP and then stopped. MS however count them all.
don't Ms charge $1 for game pass that might be why psnow makes more
 

Geki-D

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
4,132
5,184
730
Your "dead accounts" is pure speculating. Not facts.

You said Microsoft are in no way chasing a Netflix style subscription. False. Not a fact.
lol Can you actually quote me saying either of these things are facts?
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
11,269
15,966
915
lol Can you actually quote me saying either of these things are facts?

On mobile so multi quote is out but I'll even go as far as to give you the post number and copy and paste.

Post #78.


"As for the dead accounts, I mean accounts that have canned their GP after the trial. They may still be on Live, but they at some point signed up to GP and then stopped. MS however count them all."

Post #70
"MS are in no way following in the footsteps of Netflix. Netflix was never making less than the competition with a bloated user count full of dead accounts."
 

Geki-D

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
4,132
5,184
730
Post #78.
"As for the dead accounts, I mean accounts that have canned their GP after the trial. They may still be on Live, but they at some point signed up to GP and then stopped. MS however count them all."
Except there I was explaining what I meant by "dead accounts" and I always made it clear that I was only speculating that MS have bloated their numbers with dead accounts:
With MS making so little off of such a massive install base, I seriously question how exactly they're counting those subs.
With only about 5 bucks between the monthly fee of each service, GP must have a massive amount of inactive users being counted in there (like 70%).
And I already asked you to put another theory on the table that's better than mine, because mine is just that, a theory:
you wanna actually try and explain how GP has "millions", seemingly 9.5 million subs yet they're making so little?
That said, I still maintain that the most plausible reason MS has so little returns off of so many subs is because they're inactive accounts. DISCLAIMER: THIS IS SPECULATION
Post #70
"MS are in no way following in the footsteps of Netflix. Netflix was never making less than the competition with a bloated user count full of dead accounts."
I literally say right there that they aren't following in their footsteps in that Netflix was never in the same position as Gamespass. I never denied that they were working on content like Netflix, I just said that seeing as none of that is here right now, I don't care:
I get that they're aiming for more content but whilst I recognise your faith in their distant future, I'm dealing with the here & now.

Nice try though. You get an F for reading comprehension but a A for effort.
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
11,269
15,966
915
Except there I was explaining what I meant by "dead accounts" and I always made it clear that I was only speculating that MS have bloated their numbers with dead accounts:

And I already asked you to put another theory on the table that's better than mine, because mine is just that, a theory:

That said, I still maintain that the most plausible reason MS has so little returns off of so many subs is because they're inactive accounts. DISCLAIMER: THIS IS SPECULATION

I literally say right there that they aren't following in their footsteps in that Netflix was never in the same position as Gamespass. I never denied that they were working on content like Netflix, I just said that seeing as none of that is here right now, I don't care:


Nice try though. You get an F for reading comprehension but a A for effort.

lol you are something else. Are you able to have a conversation without sounding like a jackass?

How can you say speculation and use words like MUST. MICROSFT MUST BE INFLATING NUMBERS. Thats not you speculating. You only make it clear now after somebody calls you out on your bullshit. Your writing is impossible to comprehend because you vomit nonsense.

If you want to have an actual conversation lets have one. Kindly leave you condescending jackass attitude somewhere else.
 

Geki-D

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
4,132
5,184
730
How can you say speculation and use words like MUST. MICROSFT MUST BE INFLATING NUMBERS. Thats not you speculating. You only make it clear now after somebody calls you out on your bullshit. Your writing is impossible to comprehend because you vomit nonsense.
English not your first language, huh:

Must:
2. Expressing an opinion about something that is logically very likely.

‘there must be something wrong’

‘you must be tired’

If you want to have an actual conversation lets have one. Kindly leave you condescending jackass attitude somewhere else.
Well, we can't all have amazing conversation starters like:
Lol it's not but ok.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Nikana

Go Go Neo Rangers!
Jan 26, 2016
11,269
15,966
915
English not your first language, huh:

Must:
2. Expressing an opinion about something that is logically very likely.
‘there must be something wrong’
‘you must be tired’


Well, we can't all have amazing conversation starters like:

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

lol you conveniently went with the second definition and not the first.

If a cop tells you, you must show your ID. You gonna say... Well i dont wanna. Yeah ok.

Again...you dont have to be so aggressive. Why not try to have a normal conversation?
 
Last edited:

cryptoadam

Banned
Feb 21, 2018
24,152
51,440
1,215
unless you are a die hard gamer, hold off on day 1.

We all know there will be pro versions, BF discounts, price drops etc...

At this point Day 1 is starting to feel like for suckers.
 

Geki-D

Banned
Dec 6, 2017
4,132
5,184
730
lol you conveniently went with the second definition and not the first.
Ok so wait. I actually highlighted the word must before you even mentioned it, so I guess I'm playing some pretty advanced 4D chess here, right. Also It just so happens must even has that second definition at all, well that sure is a lucky coinkydink ain't it. Phew, that sheer pot luck of must having that second meaning really saved my hide there.
Seriously dude...

If a cop tells you, you must show your ID. You gonna say... Well i dont wanna. Yeah ok.
Ok, English lesson.
Must has two ways of being used. In your example it's expressing necessity. However if the cop says "Surely you must have a driver's licence?" He is presuming that logically if I am behind the wheel of a car, I surely have a licence or I wouldn't be driving.

Again...you dont have to be so aggressive. Why not try to have a normal conversation?
I'd like to remind you how this started in the first place:

-You responded to me with this totally respectful comment:
Maybe try a different comparison
To which I fully explained what I meant:
Because of what they spend, not because people aren't subbing which is GP's case. Their actual earnings are climbing ($4.52 billion in Q1 2019) but they're burning money on content, real estate and infrastructure along with other stuff. Their subs are also growing which, with the increased earnings, show that people are keeping their subs. Gamepass is like the polar opposite of this.
Then you delivered this poignant rebuttal, full of respect:
Lol it's not but ok.
And for the rest, whilst I was actually laying out figures, you kept calling me a liar without ever actually saying how or why:
You keep saying a lot of things that are facts that aren't.
Second, you're coming to a conclusion based on information that you are speculating and trying to pass it off as fact.
Lol riiight. People call you out and you just throw ITS A FACT!
For 3 posts till I finally ask you:
lol Can you actually quote me saying either of these things are facts?
And once you did that and I corrected you, you threw this totally non-aggressive line:
lol you are something else. Are you able to have a conversation without sounding like a jackass?

You seriously want to frame this as me being aggressive when you've been passive-aggressive from the get-go and have called me a liar through most of this without explaining in what regard?

Yeah, at one point I got snarky after about half of that, no shit.
 
Last edited: