Eteric Rice
Member
Eh, the Wii seems to be getting quite a few M rated titles, though most are ports. No More Heroes seems interesting, though.
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Insomniac Chief Creative Officer Brian Hastings speaks out on the PS3
- Thread starter Kittonwy
- Start date
DCharlie
And even i am moderately surprised
yes, we weren't complaining about needing a thicker skin back then because we've already earned ours over years and years of even the companies we like taking a dump on us (hi Sega, MS, Nintendo!)
That's the big difference - sony fans simply aren't used to being on the receiving end and they don't know how to react.
What is disturbing is the lengths some fans will go to adjust their thinking around what a company does, thinking that makes them a better fan (see: opinions on Rumble for instance).
A good fan will compain about this stuff, but for some reason that seems to be lost on ALL fanboys!
"MS says DVD fine!" - WOO GREAT 9 GIGS IS ENOUGH!!!
"Rumble is last gen anyways" - GREAT I SWITCH IT OFF ANYWAYS! I'M GLAD ITS GONE!
"Here is another handheld with issues - please buy the revised versions later" - I LOVE GETTING SHAFTED! THANKS!
MORE bitching for a better industry. Make these companies work for us, not the other way round.
Brian Hasting's blog reeks of desperate fanboyism.
He makes a lot of weak arguments, I'm sure if he thought about it more he could make a stronger case.
First off, he puts too much importance in LBP, and not enough in Home. LBP is a piece of software the MS, or Nintendo, could duplicate. He mentions 4 player online Co-Op and User level editing as something new for consoles...where in reality they've been around for a while. Heck, some current XBLA games feature 4player Co-Op. LBP looks exciting, but again, nothing is stopping other developers from doing something similar. I look to Nintendo and I can see them doing something even better.
Home, on the other hand, may be a very important piece of software that only MS could attempt to counter, and it's something tied into their OS and online service and requires a lot of effort. Even MS called it "ambitious". I feel that he could have said a lot more about this...and stressed this as a key exclusive.
As far as online play is concerned, I thought it was $50 a year...no intro fee as he claims. And so for 5 years, that would be $250. Let's take off $70 for a decent BluTooth Mic for the PS3, so that's a difference of $180 for 5 years.
He claims Sony is rapidly catching up...I don't think he's played on Live enough to understand how far ahead MS is at this point. I don't think there will ever be a day where I can chat with any of my friends if they are in another game. I don't think there will ever be a day where I can find out what level my friend is in, when he's playing the next Splinter Cell. I say these things with confidence, because Sony is going to have to re-do a lot of things all over again(or they may go ahead with a lot of their library not supporting these features). When I hop onto Live...people without mics are the exception. When I hopped onto Resistance, people with mics were the exception (though that is not the case anymore since the casual Resistance players have dropped out, and more of the hardcore fans have gotten themselves mics). I can play games like Halo 2, knowing that it is still supported, whereas I can't do that for games like MGS3. With Live I don't have to open ports on my router for every new game that comes out. The value of Live can be debated. It's not a very strong argument.
He mentions that XBL's matchmaking is inconsistent across games...when Sony themselves said that would be a good thing. Sony implied that giving control to each developer would result in more innovation. Hasting seems to be going against Sony's PR speak. He mentions Resistance being a success story in this regard...but isn't it ironic since Resistance online has been completely ripped off of Halo 2's setup? He doesn't give credit where credit is due...funny.
Hasting also claims that GoW looks better than Resistance because of the textures...but doesn't mention that it has motion blur and such. I think that the more space one has, the better and so BRay is a good format to have. But at what cost? There are advantages, and there are disadvantages. BluRay adds to the cost of the console, putting it out of the range of most people. It will get more and more important as years go by, but by then the 360 will hit a mass market price, and people will eat it up.
His point about BluRay beating HD-DVD doesn't have much to do with the console race, because MS didn't commit to one or the other. I won't be surprised if I saw a BluRay addon for the 360 in the future. Heck, it could still be cheaper than the PS3 with it.
HDMI is important and it's clear that MS realizes this. I suppose with their latest announcement there are only 9 reasons why the PS3 will "win".
Standard HDD is great for developers...but did it really help MS last gen? Will the fact that an HDD is standard, be a big blow to MS? Again, it's great for developers, but it's clear that MS has utilized the non-standard HDD to a great degree. Unlike the PS2, where a minority of owners had one, it's the other way around. Who knows, perhaps developers will start treating it as if it's a standard feature? (Personally, I think it was a mistake to have the 2 SKUs...I really don't think MS would have sold any less if there was only 1 Premium SKU, considering the early shortages.) My point here is that the argument is weakened by the fact that many, if not most, 360 owners have a HDD, and for the next few years it could be standard with every machine.
As far as the Wii goes...one could claim that Wii Sports was a fad...and pretty soon, a new one in the form of Mario Party will start, and then after that, some other enticing piece of software...etc. It could be that the Wii will hit a mass market price very soon, that even PS3 and 360 owners will buy it.
Of course the PS3 has the CPU advantage...and that's half the reason why the 360 has a price advantage. Sure, in 2 years games will look stellar, beyond what the 360 can achieve, but during those 2 years will be a lot of console sales and price drops. The Xbox's CPU advantage didn't help with a lot of 3rd party titles, btw.
The ones buying a PS2 right now won't be buying a next gen console anytime soon. And if they were, I think they'd go with the considerably cheaper ones, being the Wii or 360.
Something for everyone...somewhat true. The PS2 hit all demographics pretty well, and I think the PS3 will as well. Games like Singstar help expand the market, and Sony's past library looks pretty good. But you can't ignore the fact that the 360 looks to be the better games machine from a games standpoint. After 2007, I can envision Sony doing better and better...but right now, the 360 offers 5 times the AAA content, and that won't change this Fall.
These arguments are extremely weak and easy to dispute. I think arguments that are harder to dispute are ones that look at the long-term, overall picture. The PS3, in 3 years, will hit mass market prices, will by then have BluRay as the established HD disc format, will have all the titles Hasting has mentioned out for it, and it's 1st party games will look better than 360 1st party games.
But for the next 2 years...things look neck and neck with me.
Hasting also cries about the negative attention the PS3 is getting, but he doesn't realize that Sony is to blame. They have made many false promises and insinuations and the media doesn't forget this. It all started when they hinted that the PS3 may come out in Spring 2006...in order to sway gamers to hold off on the 2005 360 launch. Obviously, that date was far off from reality. They promise features in games that haven't come into fruition. They promise visuals that haven't yet come into fruition. They come out with an online service that doesn't even yet compare to the original Xbox's offerings. Sony has been, prior to the PS3 launch, extremely arrogant as well. The price didn't rub well off of a lot of Sony loyalists. There were a lot of reasons why Sony got a lot of flak.
A blog isn't going to change industry and media attitude...Sony's actions will. Home was a positive announcement, one that has apparently caught MS off guard. Original titles like LBP shows that Sony isn't relying on sequels to sell consoles. It's things like this that have to be done to garner the attention of gamers, and to gain their trust.
To be honest, I've become so distrustful of Sony that I don't believe that some of the advertised features of Home will hit our PS3s within the next year. I would love to be wrong, but I have a feeling that it will be a lot like their online play solution...where it would be built upon over time.
He makes a lot of weak arguments, I'm sure if he thought about it more he could make a stronger case.
First off, he puts too much importance in LBP, and not enough in Home. LBP is a piece of software the MS, or Nintendo, could duplicate. He mentions 4 player online Co-Op and User level editing as something new for consoles...where in reality they've been around for a while. Heck, some current XBLA games feature 4player Co-Op. LBP looks exciting, but again, nothing is stopping other developers from doing something similar. I look to Nintendo and I can see them doing something even better.
Home, on the other hand, may be a very important piece of software that only MS could attempt to counter, and it's something tied into their OS and online service and requires a lot of effort. Even MS called it "ambitious". I feel that he could have said a lot more about this...and stressed this as a key exclusive.
As far as online play is concerned, I thought it was $50 a year...no intro fee as he claims. And so for 5 years, that would be $250. Let's take off $70 for a decent BluTooth Mic for the PS3, so that's a difference of $180 for 5 years.
He claims Sony is rapidly catching up...I don't think he's played on Live enough to understand how far ahead MS is at this point. I don't think there will ever be a day where I can chat with any of my friends if they are in another game. I don't think there will ever be a day where I can find out what level my friend is in, when he's playing the next Splinter Cell. I say these things with confidence, because Sony is going to have to re-do a lot of things all over again(or they may go ahead with a lot of their library not supporting these features). When I hop onto Live...people without mics are the exception. When I hopped onto Resistance, people with mics were the exception (though that is not the case anymore since the casual Resistance players have dropped out, and more of the hardcore fans have gotten themselves mics). I can play games like Halo 2, knowing that it is still supported, whereas I can't do that for games like MGS3. With Live I don't have to open ports on my router for every new game that comes out. The value of Live can be debated. It's not a very strong argument.
He mentions that XBL's matchmaking is inconsistent across games...when Sony themselves said that would be a good thing. Sony implied that giving control to each developer would result in more innovation. Hasting seems to be going against Sony's PR speak. He mentions Resistance being a success story in this regard...but isn't it ironic since Resistance online has been completely ripped off of Halo 2's setup? He doesn't give credit where credit is due...funny.
Hasting also claims that GoW looks better than Resistance because of the textures...but doesn't mention that it has motion blur and such. I think that the more space one has, the better and so BRay is a good format to have. But at what cost? There are advantages, and there are disadvantages. BluRay adds to the cost of the console, putting it out of the range of most people. It will get more and more important as years go by, but by then the 360 will hit a mass market price, and people will eat it up.
His point about BluRay beating HD-DVD doesn't have much to do with the console race, because MS didn't commit to one or the other. I won't be surprised if I saw a BluRay addon for the 360 in the future. Heck, it could still be cheaper than the PS3 with it.
HDMI is important and it's clear that MS realizes this. I suppose with their latest announcement there are only 9 reasons why the PS3 will "win".
Standard HDD is great for developers...but did it really help MS last gen? Will the fact that an HDD is standard, be a big blow to MS? Again, it's great for developers, but it's clear that MS has utilized the non-standard HDD to a great degree. Unlike the PS2, where a minority of owners had one, it's the other way around. Who knows, perhaps developers will start treating it as if it's a standard feature? (Personally, I think it was a mistake to have the 2 SKUs...I really don't think MS would have sold any less if there was only 1 Premium SKU, considering the early shortages.) My point here is that the argument is weakened by the fact that many, if not most, 360 owners have a HDD, and for the next few years it could be standard with every machine.
As far as the Wii goes...one could claim that Wii Sports was a fad...and pretty soon, a new one in the form of Mario Party will start, and then after that, some other enticing piece of software...etc. It could be that the Wii will hit a mass market price very soon, that even PS3 and 360 owners will buy it.
Of course the PS3 has the CPU advantage...and that's half the reason why the 360 has a price advantage. Sure, in 2 years games will look stellar, beyond what the 360 can achieve, but during those 2 years will be a lot of console sales and price drops. The Xbox's CPU advantage didn't help with a lot of 3rd party titles, btw.
The ones buying a PS2 right now won't be buying a next gen console anytime soon. And if they were, I think they'd go with the considerably cheaper ones, being the Wii or 360.
Something for everyone...somewhat true. The PS2 hit all demographics pretty well, and I think the PS3 will as well. Games like Singstar help expand the market, and Sony's past library looks pretty good. But you can't ignore the fact that the 360 looks to be the better games machine from a games standpoint. After 2007, I can envision Sony doing better and better...but right now, the 360 offers 5 times the AAA content, and that won't change this Fall.
These arguments are extremely weak and easy to dispute. I think arguments that are harder to dispute are ones that look at the long-term, overall picture. The PS3, in 3 years, will hit mass market prices, will by then have BluRay as the established HD disc format, will have all the titles Hasting has mentioned out for it, and it's 1st party games will look better than 360 1st party games.
But for the next 2 years...things look neck and neck with me.
Hasting also cries about the negative attention the PS3 is getting, but he doesn't realize that Sony is to blame. They have made many false promises and insinuations and the media doesn't forget this. It all started when they hinted that the PS3 may come out in Spring 2006...in order to sway gamers to hold off on the 2005 360 launch. Obviously, that date was far off from reality. They promise features in games that haven't come into fruition. They promise visuals that haven't yet come into fruition. They come out with an online service that doesn't even yet compare to the original Xbox's offerings. Sony has been, prior to the PS3 launch, extremely arrogant as well. The price didn't rub well off of a lot of Sony loyalists. There were a lot of reasons why Sony got a lot of flak.
A blog isn't going to change industry and media attitude...Sony's actions will. Home was a positive announcement, one that has apparently caught MS off guard. Original titles like LBP shows that Sony isn't relying on sequels to sell consoles. It's things like this that have to be done to garner the attention of gamers, and to gain their trust.
To be honest, I've become so distrustful of Sony that I don't believe that some of the advertised features of Home will hit our PS3s within the next year. I would love to be wrong, but I have a feeling that it will be a lot like their online play solution...where it would be built upon over time.
nelsonroyale
Member
DCharlie said:yes, we weren't complaining about needing a thicker skin back then because we've already earned ours over years and years of even the companies we like taking a dump on us (hi Sega, MS, Nintendo!)
That's the big difference - sony fans simply aren't used to being on the receiving end and they don't know how to react.
What is disturbing is the lengths some fans will go to adjust their thinking around what a company does, thinking that makes them a better fan (see: opinions on Rumble for instance).
A good fan will compain about this stuff, but for some reason that seems to be lost on ALL fanboys!
"MS says DVD fine!" - WOO GREAT 9 GIGS IS ENOUGH!!!
"Rumble is last gen anyways" - GREAT I SWITCH IT OFF ANYWAYS! I'M GLAD ITS GONE!
"Here is another handheld with issues - please buy the revised versions later" - I LOVE GETTING SHAFTED! THANKS!
MORE bitching for a better industry. Make these companies work for us, not the other way round.
ughh, its all the same shit from each consoles fans...there is no one side over the other. The spin in favour of TH was legendary
One point, though is I really do not care that much about rumble and would prefer tilt
peace
Heh - interesting timing... looks like Microsoft agrees with Brian's 'desperate fanboy' Point no. 7
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148442
(not that I necessarily agree myself, but we're a very democratic lot around here)
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148442
(not that I necessarily agree myself, but we're a very democratic lot around here)
PS3 will be fine, as long as Sony tries to get the hardware price down. If PS3 is treated like PSP 2.0 in terms of price cuts, PS3 is ****ED. I don't care how many great games you have, 600 bucks is too much to spend for most people. I'm a pretty big hardcore gamer myself, and I wasn't going to throw down 600 bucks on a PS3. Everyone has their sticking point, and mine was 500 which I could accomplish by trading in my PS2 when EB had their special going on.
AltogetherAndrews
Member
Fight for Freeform said:
This really just goes to show that you don't understand what LBP is. Nintendo could not counter LBP, unless the company entirely revamped its online and user sharing strategy from the ground up. User created levels and co-op has been done on consoles before, but not like this.