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Insomniac Games Implementing New Dialogue Technology for Spider-Man 2

ChiefDada

Gold Member



https://twistedvoxel.com/marvels-spider-man-2-wolverine-new-dialogue-technology/

Insomniac Games and Marvel’s Spider-Man 2 and Wolverine may be featuring brand new dialogue technology, based on the latest information.

Speaking during a live stream session on Insomniac Games’ official Twitch channel, lead engine programmer Elan Ruskin revealed that the studio’s next game, likely Marvel’s Spider-Man 2 and possibly even Wolverine, will feature some “very cool” dialogue technology.


Cool sidebar - Elan Ruskin is the same guy from Insomniac who gave the GDC talk on the streaming system in Spiderman. He worked on revamping the streaming tech for Ratchet & Clank PS5 and provides additional info on PS5 SSD and I/O. This may be particularly informative for people complaining that PS5 hasn't shown SSD speed advantage yet. Timestampped.

 
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ChiefDada

Gold Member
That's the news...

Hey man, it's a drought out here. We take what we can get.

Colin Farrell Reaction GIF
 

MacReady13

Member
I’m hoping the focus is on gameplay and releasing a finished, polished product that controls beautifully and less worrying about dialogue techniques.
 

Hoppa

Member
I just heard some politicians playing Overwatch, that type of implementation of AI text-to-speech would be great!
 

Fredrik

Member
The timestamps don’t work at my end, I just start at the beginning and can’t fast forward for whatever reason. What are they saying?
 

mhirano

Member
I’m sure it will be deepfake realistic characters with AI generated voices reading ChatGPT-powered scripts in procedurally AI generated scenarios.
 

hemo memo

Gold Member
That's the news...

Gaming journalism at its finest.
Pretty much. This is embarrassing at this point. It is the most non-news ever.

Said game will implement (whatever) new technology. As for what this (whatever) new technology does is unknown for now. Seriously? I mean don’t they have an editorial team? How does this get approved for publication?
 

hemo memo

Gold Member
I’m hoping the focus is on gameplay and releasing a finished, polished product that controls beautifully and less worrying about dialogue techniques.
Just copy miles morales. I wouldn’t mind a more focused experience rather than boring copy paste stuff to do left and right.
 

Agent_4Seven

Tears of Nintendo
“very cool” dialogue technology
I wonder what this even mean? All dialogues were fine if not great in the first game and Miles.

I would've preferred much less stupid side quests for 5 year old kids and repetitive open world busywork - it hurts the game a lot as well as its combat system which at a 50-55% mark becomes stale, boring and tedious, cuz of how much enemies you've killed (probably hundreds). I hope they'll tone all this shit down and make it more like in Arkham games without hundreds upon hundreds of enemies you need to fight.

I've played through each Arkham game multiple times and not even once I stoped and thought to myself - "Man, how many more dudes I need to beat down? It's so booooooring! I want this to end!", well, Insomniac's Spider-Man did exact opposite while also having great combat system. That's a huge problem for me, Miles have the same problems.
 
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hyperbertha

Member
I wonder what this even mean? All dialogues were fine if not great in the first game and Miles.

I would've preferred much less stupid side quests for 5 year old kids and repetitive open world busywork - it hurts the game a lot as well as it's combat system which at a 50-55% mark becomes stale, boring and tedious, cuz of how much enemies you've killed (probably hundreds). I hope they'll tone all this shit down and make it more like in Arkham games without hundreds upon hundreds of enemies you need to fight.

I've played through each Arkham game multiple times and not even once I stoped and thought to myself - "Man, how many more dudes I need to beat down? It's so booooooring! I want this to end!", well, Insomniac's Spider-Man did exact opposite while also having great combat system. That's a huge problem for me, Miles have the same problems.
Yep my thoughts exactly. Despite almost copying Arkham games' combat one to one, Spiderman doesn't have anywhere near the staying power those games had. People say insomniac is an A tier studio, but really they are B tier. Not on the level of rocksteady.
 

mrmustard

Banned
I hope they improved the bossfights and sidequests first, because a new dialogue technology is not what i expect to be a priority in an action game.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Yep my thoughts exactly. Despite almost copying Arkham games' combat one to one, Spiderman doesn't have anywhere near the staying power those games had.
This is quite subjective and unsurprisingly reductive, many games have tried similar combat gameplay mechanics (which in this case ignores the kick ass signature spider-man traversal and it’s touches on combat too) and few have actually been on the success level Spider-man (and its spin-off MM and remasters) have achieved. Ingredients are one thing, variations and how you put them together is another and Insomniac IMHO succeeded there too.

People say insomniac is an A tier studio, but really they are B tier. Not on the level of rocksteady.
Suicide Squad jabs aside (years of development and cost vs result), Insomniac is not only very efficient as a studio but their games do certainly belong in the AAA space: their results certainly speak for themselves in terms of sales, but even technologically their achievements are plain to see (40 FPS and 60 FPS RT modes in Spider-man on PS5 bring a detailed and alive NYC representation at a very high graphical quality).
 

hyperbertha

Member
This is quite subjective and unsurprisingly reductive, many games have tried similar combat gameplay mechanics (which in this case ignores the kick ass signature spider-man traversal and it’s touches on combat too) and few have actually been on the success level Spider-man (and its spin-off MM and remasters) have achieved. Ingredients are one thing, variations and how you put them together is another and Insomniac IMHO succeeded there too.


Suicide Squad jabs aside (years of development and cost vs result), Insomniac is not only very efficient as a studio but their games do certainly belong in the AAA space: their results certainly speak for themselves in terms of sales, but even technologically their achievements are plain to see (40 FPS and 60 FPS RT modes in Spider-man on PS5 bring a detailed and alive NYC representation at a very high graphical quality).
You are extremely biased towards sony from your other posts iirc. Your opinion doesn't really count. And just because Spiderman does it better than other imitators, which it does, doesn't mean it's in the level of the original
 

mrmustard

Banned
Yep my thoughts exactly. Despite almost copying Arkham games' combat one to one, Spiderman doesn't have anywhere near the staying power those games had. People say insomniac is an A tier studio, but really they are B tier. Not on the level of rocksteady.
You forgot the enemy types. I wouldn't call them B tier, because they are a good, effective and talented studio that produces games in the expected AAA 80s range, but they are overrated. Yet people call them god tier and celebrate them as the second coming of christ, but i think any decent studio with a nice budget could have copied Batman.

Give me a (non Batman) 92+ Wolverine and i might change my opinion.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
You are extremely biased towards sony from your other posts iirc.
IIRC, so not bothering to even look at the profile posts.

Your opinion doesn't really count.
Thank you, I appreciate how open minded and unbiased you are, projecting much ;)?

And just because Spiderman does it better than other imitators, which it does, doesn't mean it's in the level of the original
You are not arguing it to well, it seems like a trite “oh yeah, so something shitty is selling a lot, people are dumb” which is a not unusual dismissive comment, unsurprisingly so.
 
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hyperbertha

Member
IIRC, so not bothering to even look at the profile posts.


Thank you, I appreciate how open minded and unbiased you are, projecting much ;)?


You are not arguing it to well, it seems like a trite “oh yeah, so something shitty is selling a lot, people are dumb” which is a not unusual dismissive comment, unsurprisingly so.
Your primary argument is it's selling a lot, so it's good. Fortnite sells a lot. Marvel movies sell a lot. Doesn't mean they are good. Spiderman compared to Arkham is weak. End of story.
 

hyperbertha

Member
You forgot the enemy types. I wouldn't call them B tier, because they are a good, effective and talented studio that produces games in the expected AAA 80s range, but they are overrated. Yet people call them god tier and celebrate them as the second coming of christ, but i think any decent studio with a nice budget could have copied Batman.

Give me a (non Batman) 92+ Wolverine and i might change my opinion.
They are only able to make games so rapidly because their games don't have nearly the care or polish that goes into games from ND/ RS. Their efficiency has always been bullshit imo. They have the sony budget, which carries them somewhat, and yea they are overrated, mostly because they are sony first party.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
You forgot the enemy types. I wouldn't call them B tier, because they are a good, effective and talented studio that produces games in the expected AAA 80s range, but they are overrated. Yet people call them god tier and celebrate them as the second coming of christ, but i think any decent studio with a nice budget could have copied Batman.

Give me a (non Batman) 92+ Wolverine and i might change my opinion.
In their history their 92+ MC games are rare, but I would argue the MC score under rates them, it could be probably a few points higher per game (including their PC and Xbox games) and that would put them in the 90’s range. Then again I understand it is subjective, but once you look at their scores you do see a lot of great scores and very few low scores dragging the average lower than it should be.

They are an extremely well run studio considering their release cadence and size (which helps lower the financial risk they take on each new project), they appear to be profitable and very nimble and adaptable (they are able to quickly learn how to proficiently tackle new game mechanics and have done very good entries in lots of different categories: open world games, platformers of different kinds, FPS’s, etc…).

For $300 Million or so they were a steal for Sony.
 
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Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
They are only able to make games so rapidly because their games don't have nearly the care or polish that goes into games from ND/ RS.
Ok clearly you have a bone to pick here… with them and/or Sony.
Their efficiency has always been bullshit imo.
So says you… money it costs them to run vs profits they generate, but sure their titles are unpolished, which they are not. Not sure how you look at their games and see lack of care either but 🤷‍♂️.

They have the sony budget, which carries them somewhat, and yea they are overrated, mostly because they are sony first party.
Sure, I guess for you Sunset Overdrive was the only moment we saw their good value shine eh ;)?
 

mdkirby

Member
I'd like to think its some sort of generative NPC conversations, so you don't have repeated dialogue over and over. BUT the really good ai voice stuff is literally brand new, so I doubt it would be something already integrated into a major game that is nearing the end of development. Rather its the sort of thing I'd expect to see in games 3-4 years from now. I guess it could be a more limited/restrictive early version of something like that tho.
 

Roberts

Member
Sure, I guess for you Sunset Overdrive was the only moment we saw their good value shine eh ;)?
It's funny, I never hide the fact that I prefer xbox games to ps stuff in general, but SO is the only game of theirs made in the last 15 years or so that I didn't finish. I should have loved it, but somehow it never clicked for me. And I have restarted it three times over the years.

Anyway, Insomniac, just like other top-tier PS studios have done a lot of good in advancing the technology in videogames but personally I think they make solid 7/10 stuff and not more. I have never played any of their games and said to myself:"Holy shit, I love this game" other than the first 10 minutes swinging around the city in Spider-Man.
 
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Agent_4Seven

Tears of Nintendo
This is quite subjective and unsurprisingly reductive, many games have tried similar combat gameplay mechanics (which in this case ignores the kick ass signature spider-man traversal and it’s touches on combat too) and few have actually been on the success level Spider-man (and its spin-off MM and remasters) have achieved. Ingredients are one thing, variations and how you put them together is another and Insomniac IMHO succeeded there too.
The problem is not the combat, it's the fact that everything Insomniac did in the game design-wise and outside of story - kills it completely the longer you play, cuz there's only so much thugs you can beat down before it becomes a routine, very boring and very tedious one at that. What also kills it is open world stuff which is as boring and unimaginative as it can get. What Insomniac achieved is only making the best Spider-Man story (Silver Lining DLC included) in video games and how it presented and put together, everything else is either average or even below average open world crap. As for the combat, it's mostly the same as in good Activision games (of which there aren't many), it's just reworked to the standard of Arkham games and upgraded in other aspects. But combat is only so good as everything else around it and that's the main problem, cuz it isn't, there's way too much stuff in the game around it involving you killing hundreds of thugs over and over and over and over and over again.

Rocksteady made combat encounters justified story-wise and didn't put enemies around the map for you to kill hundreds of times to prolong the playtime. There's no boring openworld activities for kids, you don't need to save dozens of civilians while doing the same exact crap you did hundreds of times before, you don't need to chase cars in the same exact manner and fight dozens of thugs hundreds of times, you don't need to complete checklists and tick boxes etc. Arkham Knight did some this, but even there it wasn't as bad as in Insomniac's Spider-Man cuz combat is way better, you can get rid of enemies more quickly and it's just a lot more satisfying and you've more options to deal woth enemies in stealth. Hell, even Raven's Wolverine game has way better combat (which is not even Arkham-like) and it never get's boring, tedious or stale, something which I'm sure Insomniac will never top in their upcoming game.
Yep my thoughts exactly. Despite almost copying Arkham games' combat one to one, Spiderman doesn't have anywhere near the staying power those games had. People say insomniac is an A tier studio, but really they are B tier. Not on the level of rocksteady.
I don't agree about Insomniac being B tier developer, they're just made some wrong design decisions during Spider-Man's development I've pointed out above. If they can tone this down for the sequel, it could be great 18-20 hour game with way less needless fat. But I don't think they will - a lot of people seem to like tedious stuff and monotony in open world games, cuz they can just listen to podcasts and kill time while ticking boxes and completing checklists.
 
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hyperbertha

Member
Ok clearly you have a bone to pick here… with them and/or Sony.

So says you… money it costs them to run vs profits they generate, but sure their titles are unpolished, which they are not. Not sure how you look at their games and see lack of care either but 🤷‍♂️.


Sure, I guess for you Sunset Overdrive was the only moment we saw their good value shine eh ;)?
I haven't even played sunset overdrive or owned an xbox console ever. Your low IQ trolling is getting tiresome.
 

StueyDuck

Member
My assumption based on the lack of information is less about dialog trees like some are assuming but rather some sort of RDR2/GTA6 system where the ai responds to you...

Otherwise this is just fluff nonsense talk and you just choose 3 options haha which is hardly new to video games
 
I really liked that they recorded lines twice for the Spider-Man games. One where Peter/Miles was relaxed and one where he was stressed. It made swinging through the city more realistic.

I wonder whether this is dialogue trees or something else.
 
Magic Cerny SSD strike again!

The developer had to re-organise and re-package the game data on disk so it's ready be thrown into RAM and be used immediately without the initialisation of the CPU.

I'm guessing the old process would have been the opposite, stream in the data from disk at a stupidly slow speed and then it began initialising to set up the world/characters.

Curious to see what kind of implications this would have on CPU performance, especially when it comes to streaming new data as the player traverses through the world.
 

Fafalada

Fafracer forever
I’m sure it will be deepfake realistic characters with AI generated voices reading ChatGPT-powered scripts in procedurally AI generated scenarios.
If it's GPT generated scenarios - is it really still 'procedural' or 'hand-crafted' (with 15-finger hands, obviously) ? ;P
 
Better automatic lip sync and emotion is my guess.
Yeah, I think this is a bit more of a realistic expectation compared to some of the more wild AI theories.

The NPC’s had pretty simple facial animations and lip sync in SM/Morales outside of the cutscenes, so it’s an obvious spot for improvement compared to most of the other dialogue in the games.
 
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