Interesting finds showing PS4, XB1 and PS3 media plans

Continued from this thread.

The four proposals by the FCC DSTAC for a Cable TV Downloadable Security scheme are:

1) Virtual Head end which abstracts Cable features to APIs and streams with DTCP-IP and the second proposal in this scheme is a Vidipath app (Used with Cable TV Gateways, first DVRs and then direct from a cable modem with DLNA) PDF on Sony's passage has the center and lower path page 12 with a Cable TV downloadable security scheme using Vidipath.

For the PS3 a PDF on Passage was just released at the latest FCC DSTAC (Downloadable Security Technical Advisory Committee) meeting. Page 12 has a chart showing a PS3 being used as a Vidipath STB.

Top path is RVU which the PS3 already supports.
Direct Attach End to End (center path) which is all IPTV direct from a cable modem . The future but Cable can't currently support more than a small percentage of their customers going all IPTV.
Sony is definitely supporting Vidipath, page 12 bottom path (Traditional Cable TV with the DLNA CVP2 FCC mandate where a DVR with tuners converts a RF channel to IPTV streams )

2) HTML5 <video> EME MSE ( direct IPTV from a cable modem) from the browser or an APP. An APP may be required for special features not supported by the browser. The example given was gesture control but Gesture and Voice control are or will be part of some browsers.

[HTML5 app written by the Cable company using Sony's passage and network tuners to ?emulate a Vidipath Cable TV DVR?. The Sony job posting makes more sense with this proposal



http://www.cablelabs.com/downloadable-security-and-the-future-of-cablecards/ said:
The figure above shows how the W3C specifications for HTML5, Encrypted Media Extensions (EME), Media Source Extensions (MSE), and Web Crypto APIs provide a layer of abstraction from the underlying hardware, CA/DRM and OS platforms. The MVPDs and OVDs can write one HTML5 web app that runs across all platforms that support a compliant HTML5, EME, MSE, and Web Crypto implementation. As was noted in the Working Group 3 Report, not only do all of the commercial browsers support HTML5, EME, MSE, and Web Crypto APIs, but also all of the CA/DRM providers surveyed either plan to implement EME or already have EME implementations. Further, DLNA uses HTML5, EME, MSE, and Web Crypto APIs in its Remote User Interface (RUI) that are part of the DLNA VidiPath guidelines.

Key here with HTML5 EME MSE is that multiple DRMs could be used. Vidipath's difference is that one DRM, Playready, is used by all Vidipath platforms and that allows sharing media across all connected platforms in the home.

Second Sony Passage Paper to the FCC DSTAC is about using clear QAM tuners (USB, PC Card and Network tuners) with PCs, PS4, Phones and Tablets as the client using the DSS (Downloadable Security Scheme) (page 10 and 11). A picture of the PS3 labeled PS4 on page 11 is using a Hauppauge USB Tuner. Also on that page is a HD Homerun network tuner feeding a home WiFi router to portables.

The 2010 Leaked Xbox 720 powerpoint (XB1) has the HD Homerun listed third row down, third column from the left. These two tuners were chosen by the W3C's TV working group as standards and their control schemes will be used as the APIs for the Network and USB tuner control standards supported by W3C extensions to Javascript. HTML5 TV tuner Control will work for both Cable TV and Antenna TV.

Comcast just signed an agreement with Sony to use Passage. This plus last year's Sony Job posting for a Sony representative to help cable companies with Vidipath, Miracast and more mean it's likely soon.

After Jan 2015 Microsoft is not charging for the use of their Playready server. They would only do that if they think it would become a standard used by Cable TV. This also gives us that Microsoft knows this is coming in 2015. The current listed DTCP-IP DRM for Vidipath is WMDRM10 which is a subset of Playready versions lower than 3. Vidipath's Cable TV FCC mandate was delayed by a Tivo suit to June 2015 and it was always planned for Vidipath to be upgraded to support HEVC and OTT 4K media by 2016. WMDRM10 is not secure enough to support what content owners want for 1080P and higher resolutions like 4K; thus Playready ND and Playready ports 2.5-3 (see Playready ports below).

Vidipath was supposed to be implemented June 2014 with Playready for OTT VOD from the cloud and the subset WMDRM10 supporting 1080i and lower resolutions for in home streaming (DTCP-IP) which were the limits of Cable TV broadcast at that time. There are now two versions of Playready in home streaming 1) WMDRM10 now called WMDRM ND and 2) Playready ND. Playready can Digital bridge between the two and media can tell Playready whether it's Master quality requiring the highest DRM security to lowest (500K pixels) not requiring DRM.

It appears Playready ND and WMDRM10 ND used for DTCP-IP can coexist. This paper from Microsoft section 8 deals with DTCP WMDRM ND media being issued a Playready ND license. Section 13 sets the same "local" home networking restrictions for Playready ND that are set for WMDRM ND when used with DTCP-IP.

From Microsoft's Playready 3 site: Supporting In-Home Content Distribution with PlayReady for Network Devices page 14

"The game console, acting as a PlayReady ND transmitter, has obtained a license from the service and it sends media files to valid PlayReady ND receivers that are part of the same in-home network. It also uses PlayReady technologies to build and issue local licenses to authorized receiving devices. Note that this model can also be applied to both live streams, video-on-demand and DVR content."
This outlines a model similar to Vidipath except using Playready ND instead of WMDRM10 and confirms the XB1 and PS4 will be streaming 4K media in the home (from Cable TV and OTT) and supports both as 4K blu-ray players with digital bridge.

http://www.cepro.com/article/fox_home_entertainment_proposes_blu-ray_movie_servers_as_uhd_digital_bridge/ said:
By Julie Jacobson, October 21, 2013
Mike Dunn, president of 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment, thinks we need an easier way to manage high-def content. He is calling on Hollywood and consumer electronics manufacturers to work together to create a Blu-ray player with terabytes of space for storing and managing content, including 4K Ultra HD.

During his keynote presentation at the CEA Industry Forum in Los Angeles this week, Dunn spoke of an &#8220;entertainment hub&#8221; that ushers consumers into the digital world. It would store and make TV shows and movies available to any device.

&#8220;Consumers would have the ability to copy their physical discs and store and manage their entire digital library in one centralized location&#8212;managed in the living room,&#8221; he says, &#8220;where most content is viewed on the big screen.&#8221;

To that end, he says, 20th Century Fox recently is launching an &#8220;Innovation Lab&#8221; to foster &#8220;relationships with CE and tech companies to start early in the innovation cycle.&#8221;

Anyway, he says this &#8220;Digital Bridge is really the platform for the future&#8221; and that &#8220;we must build it together.&#8221;

And then, he adds, &#8220;Everyone can innovate around that for the next 10 years.&#8221;


In addition the PS4 and XB1 will be DVRs and media servers of 1080P and 4K blu-ray using Playready ND or side loaded media from the cloud to Playready receivers. 4K will be downscaled to 1080P for platforms that don't support 4K or Playready 3.

Sony Delays in implementing Vidipath:

The current PS4 DLNA player is a placeholder for the final DLNA player. It does not support DRM and was built as a game mode app. The reason for the PS4 DLNA delay is the wait for Playready 3, HEVC and 4K blu-ray standards to be released. The reason the PS3 hasn't received any visible update to features is nearly the same; a wait for Playready, HTML5 <Video> ME (C-ENC format), HEVC and other standards to evolve. All these are part of what's required for Vidipath.

Sony's Playstation APPs are built with webkit native libraries and webkit and are called WebMAF. It was originally Firefox/Mozilla using Gnome native libraries but a Geko engine. A version of WebMAF using webkit instead of Geko was developed in 2009 and this is what Sony uses since 2012 when they ported Webkit to the PS3 and Vita. Since HTML5 <video> ME hadn't yet been created, Sony created Trilithium in 2008 which is the video player (assumption is that it uses the same APIs as Gstreamer) and some pixel/window frame manipulation routines seen in the PS3 XMB. Combining C++, WebMAF/Webkit and Trilithium allows Sony to create IPTV Apps. Trilithium has to be retired in favor of HTML5 <video> ME (embedded Playready with C-ENC format) and maybe WebGL. ALL IPTV apps on the PS3 created in 2012 have not been updated since 2012. Spotify is a WebMAF app just released a few months ago to the PS3 and it's a WEBMAF app without Video...which seems to indicate that DRM and Video player are the holdouts for updating IPTV apps on the PS3.

Playready ports:

Playready Porting has several versions based on the underlying security scheme with the higher being more secure as seen in the chart below. All versions of Playready stream and negotiate keys in the same manner but Playready knows higher porting versions like "3" are more secure and content owners of 4K media may require 3. The XB1 and PS4 support TEE level (Playready 3) DRM required for 4K media including the HDMI chip's HDCP with the PS4 supporting all ARM recommendations allowing on-line transaction support.



The PS3 did/does not have embedded playready support; it's currently being ported to the PS3. The purple block on the left represents Playready support provided by the player; I.E. Netflix would have playready in the app software. The next block labeled 2.5 has embedded Playready with various levels of support/security which the PS3 should support. The next to last is probably Intel which has it's own version of a security processor. The one on the far right is ARM TEE level DRM which is supported by all AMD's APUs and I think all ARM phones and tablets since sometime after 2006. The XB1 and PS4 have ARM blocks managed by a ARM trustzone processor in the APU and Southbridge respectively using Xtensa stream processors for Codecs and more.

Supporting In-Home Content Distribution with PlayReady for Network Devices

Xbox 360 and PS3 are now DLNA 1.5
Vidipath STBs are DLNA 2.0 and Playready porting kit 2.5
PS3 is getting Playready porting kit 2.5 which just leaves HTML5 and DLNA firmware updates to be a Vidipath STB
DLNA® Announces 3.0 Certification Program and Updated Guidelines includes HEVC

It appears the XB1 and likely the PS4 will be DLNA 3.0 and Playready porting kit 3.0 Notice the 3.0 The porting kit is directly tied to the type of embedded hardware supporting DRM. It in turn reports to Playready and Playready ND the robust level of DRM security it can support, the higher the better with 3.0 required for 4K media and DLNA 3.0 having HEVC support for 4K media.

Timing:

Sony Vaio Computers with Window 8.1 will get firmware updates to support Windows 10 with Playready 3.0 October 2015 and Windows 8.0 computers will get firmware updates to support Windows 10 November 2015. These release dates must be tied to a Microsoft roadmap which should also apply to embedded platforms like the PS4 and XB1.

1080P version from a newly Remastered 4K blu-ray of Spartacus will arrive on October 6th in the US. 4K version likely in 2016

The Fifth Element and Léon The Professional will both be released with a 1080P image from a new 4K remaster and will feature a newly mixed Dolby Atmos soundtrack. They will be available on October 27th. 4K version likely in 2016
 
Cool thread. Nice to know why the delay for the PS4 DNLA player has been so long. Still disappointed that we have to wait for more standards to be finalized, but oh well.
 
I can confirm from your post, things are happening.

Various things.

Multiple things.

If im reading this correctly, good things.

Im pretty much a computer doctor
 
I understand pretty much none of that,thanks for making me feel stupid

Slides from Hotchips 18 "Who Owns the Living Room" below: These two slide shows from 2006 give an easy to follow overview for Vidipath. They are a must read!

Who Owns the Living Room? Bill Curtis - Hot Chips is all about the need for a common DRM = Playready for sharing commercial media. It also mentions that as media gets higher resolutions closer to master quality the need for more secure DRM increases.
Who Owns the Living Room? Glen Stone Director, Standards & Strategy Sony Electronics Inc. Chair: DLNA Technical Committee is all about open standards = DLNA for sharing media in the home.

Add the above two together and you have DLNA CVP2 = Vidipath For an Idea of what's coming for the PS3, XB1 and PS4 read the Vidipath Guidelines.


1) The FCC DSTAC will likely recommend Sony's passage and Microsoft Playready on TEE level (2.5 or above) hardware for a downloadable Cable TV DRM able to be used by PS4, XB1, Phones, Tablets and TVs with ARM trustzone and maybe a PS3. When will we know; Sept 2015, when can it be used; Jan 2016. No cable boxes needed and the XB1 and PS4 will be used as DVRs.
REPORT OF WORKING GROUP 4 TO DSTAC DRAFT July 7, 2015

2) Tuner support for both Cable and Antenna TV is coming (Game Consoles as DVRs)
3) PS3 and PS4 will be Vidipath clients. This has been delayed by TiVo suits and 4K DRM is now delaying it further. With #1 above likely coming on-line in 2016, VIdipath platforms connecting with Cable TV DVRs to offer any room any device media streaming will not be as much of a killer feature.
4) XB1, PS4 or PC could be a VCR serving to the home Vidipath clients. They will also be 4K blu-ray players and using the digital bridge serve HD (1080P) and UHD (4K) media


5) A new smart TV or Set Top Box (game console) for older TVs is needed to display features coming to Antenna TV and Cable; the ATSC 2.0 features are h.264 (allowing 1080P, S3D), NRT and XTV. A Vidipath TV or STB supports ATSC 2.0 coming to Antenna TV.
6) New media delivery schemes and home media sharing using a common DRM (Playready) are to be implemented soon. The PS4 and XB1 will be supporting HEVC, likely the PS3 also to reduce the internet bandwidth used.
7) Playready ND support for in home 4K streaming support for game consoles which implies Playready 3 (OTT, Sideloaded, Ultraviolet, 4K blu-ray digital bridge)

8) Vidipath platforms are designed to support XTV which requires a browser and Java which will be used for IoT and of course could support the blu-ray UI/OS if Legal MKV copies of blu-ray disks are made available either by network drives, Memory cards or streamed.
 

NewDust

Member
Jeff, your threads/posts always read like a conspiracy theory :) . Ofcourse we all can appreciate all your sources you provide to explain your findings, but I think I speak for a lot of us if you could somewhat speak in easier "consumer" terms. What is it that is going to happen? In what way will this benefit or hinder console owners? What are the benefits/hindrances of this happing to consoles in comparison to, for example, stand alone devices, tv's? Whst timeframes are we talking about? And which areas/countries.

I dare you to answer using only 5 sentences...

But am I correct it is about broader streaming capabilities (with more DRM) being implemented on consoles, to accomodate tv broadcasting? To be implemented somewhere next year and grow to a serious alternative for current cabled networks around the early 2020's?

EDIT: Though I have to say that your last paragraph is probably the most readable I've seen of you.
 
still waiting for that ps3 browser update lol

Sony's Playstation APPs are built with webkit native libraries and webkit and are called WebMAF. It was originally Firefox/Mozilla using Gnome native libraries but a Geko engine. A version of WebMAF using webkit instead of Geko was developed in 2009 and this is what Sony uses since 2012 when they ported Webkit to the PS3 and Vita.

Since HTML5 <video> ME hadn't yet been created (Edit: Sony was using a HTML4 browser without HTML5 <video> till 2012 and to this date 8/2015 it still has no HTML5 <video> support for the Webkit browser), Sony created Trilithium in 2008 which is the video player (assumption is that it uses the same APIs as Gstreamer) and some pixel/window frame manipulation routines seen in the PS3 XMB. Combining C++, WebMAF/Webkit and Trilithium allows Sony to create IPTV Apps.

Trilithium has to be retired in favor of HTML5 <video> EME, MSE (embedded Playready with C-ENC format).. ALL IPTV apps on the PS3 created in 2012 have not been updated since 2012. Spotify is a WebMAF app just released a few months ago to the PS3 and it's a WEBMAF app without Video...which seems to indicate that DRM and Video player are the holdouts for updating IPTV apps on the PS3.

Vidipath is a HTML5 app that uses the HTML5 <video> EME, MSE (DRM hooks) which are supported using the C-ENC format that Playready uses. In other words, Sony has been waiting for Playready and will update the PS3 browser after Playready is ported to the PS3.

Playready coming to the PS3 to support Vidipath means many OS updates are coming that Vidpath requires. Miracast is one of them, DLNA control by a Phone or tablet which the Xbox 360 already supports is another.

These TV use cases by the W3C are also coming:

Contents
1. "Use Case One &#8211; Tablet Joins Home Network"
2. "Use Case Two &#8211; TV Triggers 2nd Screen"
3. "Use Case Three &#8211; Tablet EPG"
4. "Use Case Four &#8211; Content Sharing"
5. "Use Case Five &#8211; Content Search"
6. "Use Case Six &#8211; Tuner Control thru Web Application"
7. "Use Case Seven &#8211; Channel Bounded Applications"
8. "Use Case Eight &#8211; Download and Go"
9. "Use Case Nine &#8211; Watch and Record"
10. "Use Case Ten &#8211; Sync Among Browser- and non-Browser Devices"
11. "Use Case Eleven &#8211; Parental Control in Content Access"
12. "Use Case Twelve &#8211; Multiscreen Advertisement"
 
from your last thread it made sense why the media capabilities were so barebone, heck even Sony's 4K tvs lack Netflix app.

hopefully we are gonna see a proper media player early next year for PS4
 
When I saw who the OP was, I knew knowledge was about to get dropped. Knowledge that I don't understand fully or even at all.

I appreciate how technical and complicated it is it though.
 
from your last thread it made sense why the media capabilities were so barebone, heck even Sony's 4K tvs lack Netflix app.

hopefully we are gonna see a proper media player early next year for PS4
I'd guess Playready 3?

Media player with DRM would be likely October-November as I THINK Sony and Microsoft want to release the XB1 and PS4 as 4K blu-ray players when others announce their 4K blu-ray players. Vidipath clients should all release at the same time this year also. Comcast Xfinity and Verizon are listing instructions in how to turn on Vidipath in their DVRs but mention there are no Smart TVs supporting this yet.

X1 Navigate the XFINITY for VidiPath On-Screen Guide

Note This feature is only available using XFINITY on the X1 Entertainment Operating System and is not yet compatible with any consumer-ready Smart TVs.

First Time Login and On-Screen Guide Navigation
After you've unlocked XFINITY for VidiPath (see X1 Unlock XFINITY for VidiPath for details) on your X1 set-top box, you'll need to log in on your Vidipath-compatible Smart TV using your XFINITY username or email address and password. Once you've logged in, select one of the following on-screen options:
 
What's the big deal? How does it affect average consumer, especially outside of U.S.?
Vidipath is a world wide standard. Spain for instance is waiting for 2016 when HEVC is one of the codec standards for Vidipath.

Vidipath is a HTML5 APP and HTML5 is a world wide standard. If you are using a tuner to receive Antenna TV or Cable TV then Vidipath "certified" platforms allow you to share the media over the home network. Sharing games and media over the home network is the thrust of Media plans from Microsoft and Sony. It includes 1080P and 4K blu-ray. Vidipath platforms are CERTIFIED DRM secure. At the present time it's only for media @ 1080i and lower resolutions.

Playready 3 and Playready ND are for media up to 4K.
 

Oppo

Member
Jeff has been on point for a lot of this stuff. thanks Jeff. it made the DLNA delay make a lot more sense in the lame radio silence that Sony put out.
 
Awesome another Rigby thread! Still reads like technobabble from an episode of star trek but very fascinating none the less.
 

sono

Member
Thank you Jeff for this, some of which I need to study more!

this confirms the XB1 and PS4 will be streaming 4K media in the home (from Cable TV and OTT) and supports both as 4K blu-ray players

4k blu-ray support is coming Jeff says
 
Who is jeff_rigby and how does everyone know him? Is he an inaccurate insider or something?
I'm not an insider but I've been posting on the obvious and not so obvious with varying accuracy at about 80% and greater than most professional authors. I always cite and sometimes I can be mislead by industry papers who are themselves inaccurate like with HBM (high bandwidth 3D stacked memory) being ready for the PS4 launch.

For example: The PS4 is going to be a 4K blu-ray player with firmware update.

1) All modern blu-ray drives can support 3 layer and the panasonic tweak to 33 GB/layer
2) The PS4, XB1 and AMD Kaveri have Xtensa accelerators that can support HEVC
3) 4K blu-ray requires a HDMI 2.0 port which has a faster clock than HDMI 1.4 and has to support HDCP 2.2 and be firmware updatable. The PS4 has a custom Panasonic HDMI chip and a picture of it shows the pins all exposed and traces not embedded inside the board. Everyone missed this fact and what it means. The video has to be HDCP encrypted before it leaves the PS4 Southbridge...same for the HDMI chip in the newer PS4. This allows for a simpler HDMI chip that just needs to pass through HDCP negotiations to Southbridge. The only reason for doing this is to support HDMI 2.0's HDCP 2.2. Obvious but Professional writers stated the original PS4 wouldn't support being a 4K blu-ray player.

 

ClearData

Member
I'm not an insider but I've been posting on the obvious and not so obvious with varying accuracy at about 80% and greater than most professional authors. I always cite and sometimes I can be mislead by industry papers who are themselves inaccurate like with HBM (high bandwidth 3D stacked memory) being ready for the PS4 launch.

For example: The PS4 is going to be a 4K blu-ray player with firmware update.

1) All modern blu-ray drives can support 3 layer and the panasonic tweak to 33 GB/layer
2) The PS4, XB1 and AMD Kaveri have Xtensa accelerators that can support HEVC
3) 4K blu-ray requires a HDMI 2.0 port which has a faster clock than HDMI 1.4 and has to support HDCP 2.2 and be firmware updatable. The PS4 has a custom Panasonic HDMI chip and a picture of it shows the pins all exposed and traces not embedded inside the board. Everyone missed this fact and what it means. The video has to be HDCP encrypted before it leaves the PS4 Southbridge...same for the HDMI chip in the newer PS4. This allows for a simpler HDMI chip that just needs to pass through HDCP negotiations to Southbridge. The only reason for doing this is to support HDMI 2.0's HDCP 2.2. Obvious but Professional writers stated the original PS4 wouldn't support being a 4K blu-ray player.


Wtf? Thisisn'tevenmyfinalform.gif
 

NinjaBoiX

Member
That's a whole lotta letters and numbers.

I assume the PS4's video player is being updated in some way.

Good news I guess.
 
All of them? That would be fantastic, because so far it was said that PS4 does not have a BD XL drive.
BD XL drive is able to read 4 layer recordable disks. The 4K Blu-ray standard is only one layer more than 1080P blu-ray and can read a disk faster than the PS3 blu-ray drives. I.E. modern blu-ray drive.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=256623 said:
I've been informed that PC's will not require new Blu-ray drives to playback 4k media/bluray. PC's will only need software that supports 4K (PowerDVD 14 already does this). So we have it then.....

From Sony: There is a patent from Sony describing how they might implement 4K blu-ray and the issue is that older drives can support it and that creates reliability issues with older drives. Their proposed fix is to invert the track info on newer disks so older drives can't support 4K or newer than the 2010 BD-R whitepaper but 4K drives can still support standard blu-ray. This patent was probably not implemented so all we can take from it is that blu-ray drives can support 4K blu-ray.
 

Tablo

Member
What's the deal with Xbox One HDMI then?
Is it 2.0/HDCP2.2 capable?

Or is it gimped and doesn't have full 2.0 bandwith, do the newer 1 TB models have different chips? I want to know!
 
Top Bottom