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Interview with David Cage: 'I'm not a frustrated filmmaker'

Figboy79

Aftershock LA
Oh, hey, another David Cage thread where the usual suspects creep out of the woodworks and shit all over him! Fun times!

You don't have to like him, but damn, don't some of you guys get tired of talking about how much you hate him?

This was actually a really interesting interview, and it's impressive that Sony is willing to give him the leeway to create the games he wants to create, with the budgets they no doubt require. I loved Indigo Prophecy and Heavy Rain, despite their flaws, because I felt they were great jumping off points for games of this nature (see: The Walking Dead; which shares a lot of similarities to the style of game Heavy Rain is, and builds upon it).

The success of Heavy Rain most definitely showed the industry that there is a market for different types of games and approaches besides cookie cutter shooter number 802.
 

Currygan

at last, for christ's sake
I don't like his pompous statements...at all. Expecially towards traditional games

Mr Cage here has to learn a LOT of things if he wants to succeed in what he claims his games will be

ps I played Heavy Rain and I was a frustrated videogame player
 

cj_iwakura

Member
Heavy Rain wasn't bad, but for a game that prides itself on choice, there's a damn lot of outcomes you have absolutely no control over.
 
Your insecurity is not Cage's problem.

If you'd seen my posts on the "games with few cutscenes/little dialogue" thread, you'd know I'm in the 'traditional/pure games aren't satisfactory anymore' group.

I value games with strong/cohesive narratives. You're right about that not being his problem though judging by people's reactions to Heavy Rain, Cage does have other problems.

And let's not shit up this thread with accusations of insecurity being thrown around.
 

Figboy79

Aftershock LA
I don't like his pompous statements...at all. Expecially towards traditional games

Mr Cage here has to learn a LOT of things if he wants to succeed in what he claims his games will be

ps I played Heavy Rain and I was a frustrated videogame player

Well, as someone who makes video games for a living, how, exactly, do you think he's going to learn these things?

A musician learns by continuing to be a musician. He/she writes, sings, or plays their instrument constantly.

An artist will draw or paint until they perfect their craft.

A film maker doesn't make one or two films, then somehow magically gets awesome by not doing.

David Cage is a game designer/director. He will not get better if he doesn't actually, oh, I don't know, design/direct games.

He's only done 3 projects, right? Indigo Prophecy/Farenheit, Heavy Rain, and now Beyond: Two Souls. All three of those games are pushing for a certain approach to games, and each one appears to be doing it just that much better. He and his team won't improve if they don't just get back in there and make more games.

I think it's a bit unfair to trash him for actually trying to IMPROVE his skills. His team can really only get better in their goals of making more immersive, emotional games, especially as gaming technology improves.
 
Does anybody have the link to his demo for Heavy Rain where he is "playing" and commenting on the character putting on her make up? Shits hilarious.
 

Currygan

at last, for christ's sake
Well, as someone who makes video games for a living, how, exactly, do you think he's going to learn these things?

A musician learns by continuing to be a musician. He/she writes, sings, or plays their instrument constantly.

An artist will draw or paint until they perfect their craft.

A film maker doesn't make one or two films, then somehow magically gets awesome by not doing.

David Cage is a game designer/director. He will not get better if he doesn't actually, oh, I don't know, design/direct games.

He's only done 3 projects, right? Indigo Prophecy/Farenheit, Heavy Rain, and now Beyond: Two Souls. All three of those games are pushing for a certain approach to games, and each one appears to be doing it just that much better. He and his team won't improve if they don't just get back in there and make more games.

I think it's a bit unfair to trash him for actually trying to IMPROVE his skills. His team can really only get better in their goals of making more immersive, emotional games, especially as gaming technology improves.

so I suppose internal alpha/beta testing doesn't give them any insight of how the finished product will be judged by the masses
 
:D :D :D I found it!

I'm not sure if it is Cage, but it's hilarious nonetheless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-MOJJ5dLdk

Do you know how many gamers have no sisters and have never once taken the thought of how women make themselves pretty for the men they want/like ? Or how they could use it as a form of manipulation?

It takes courage to put that in a video game, and I think it's great that it's there. I have 3 sisters, so its not as silly of a scene to me, as it might be for others. But it's letting you experience something by proxy you might never have taken thought about. That's god damn amazing and thought provoking to players.
 
Do you know how many gamers have no sisters and have never once taken the thought of how women make themselves pretty for the men they want/like ? Or how they could use it as a form of manipulation?

It takes courage to put that in a video game, and I think it's great that it's there. I have 3 sisters, so its not as silly of a scene to me, as it might be for others. But it's letting you experience something by proxy you might never have taken thought about. That's god damn amazing and thought provoking to players.

You see this AstroLad? This is how it's done.

Bravo Sir Igby! Bravo!
 

BadAss2961

Member
I've never played this game.

QTE for putting on makeup? This is a joke, right guys? Right?
Nope. The game intends to follow the lives of its characters, and thus includes lots of those subtle moments that are always assumed and/or overlooked. Then they make it interactive... Fuck it, why not?
 

Setsuna

Member
For people who say he's games aren't really games. Aren't he 's games just Adventure games (Kings Quest) but in 3D interactive open world form?

That is just people being mad. Because the game doesn't fit perfectly into there definition of what a game should be.
 
What's so offensive about HotCoffee?
Nothing, but David had to delay Fahrenheit some months because of it. He was instructed to remove every nipple from the character models and put Carla in a swimsuit while showering to get a mature rating. Otherwise Fahrenheit would have received the AO rating. This is mainly because of Hot Coffee, ESRB was afraid people could exploit the PC version.


He didn't do it in this interview, but in other interviews he basically called older games and arcade style games "lesser games" compared to his high-art masterpieces.
Find this quote please. Yes, he actually doesn't like traditional games that much, but this is not a problem at all.
He even said a couple of times he doesn't think his games are better or worse then traditional games, just different. He also said shooters should stay, since there is a market for that and it adds to the variety of gaming. He just can't stand the big mainstream focus on it.

He also doesn't demand that every future game should go in his direction. He said he loved Journey, although it has nothing in common with his games.

He just encourages developers to try different things on a AAA basis. That's why he also enjoyed Portal and Catherine.


so I suppose internal alpha/beta testing doesn't give them any insight of how the finished product will be judged by the masses
According to Quantic Dream, the playtests had very positive reactions. Maybe you don't know it, but the "masses" liked Heavy Rain.


Cause nobody cares.
Many males and females are disagreeing with you. Going by Playthroughs on YT, many males were afraid to poke her in the eye and applied the makeup very slowly and carefully, while female gamers just enjoyed themselves.
They cared.
 

meta4

Junior Member
so I suppose internal alpha/beta testing doesn't give them any insight of how the finished product will be judged by the masses

It did. Thats why it got great reviews and sold over two million copies. Too bad you did not like it but believe it or not some of us did.
 
My favorite part of Heavy Rain is when Madison, in search of a serial killer,
stumbles upon a different, entirely unrelated serial killer
who is never mentioned again.
 

Shai-Tan

Banned
Oh, hey, another David Cage thread where the usual suspects creep out of the woodworks and shit all over him! Fun times!

that's just how it is in a forum with thousands of voices. all you can do is say your opinion. sometimes it's better than engaging the people who come every time to dump on something. especially when the discussion has happened so many times before that it's not even the same people yet they are repeating the same talking points they read on previous threads rather than thinking of something original
 
David Cage said:
When I write, I consistently refus[e] to censor myself. Never, never, never. I prefer to clash against censorship committees, and to defend my scene, rather than thinking that certain things won't pass and not write them at all.

You brave, brave man, Mr. Cage.

I, for one, am taking inspiration from this. No longer will I sit at my typewriter or keyboard thinking, "jeez, should I censor this part of the story? 'Cause the censorship committee might not like it..."


Nobody gives a shit. Make the game you want to make, sure, but don't try and act like some heaven-sent martyr of this industry.

What kind of fucking writer is this guy?
 

GhaleonQ

Member
I think I can be fair to a developer whom I dislike or whose work I dislike. I really have a distaste for Jonathan Blow, but he sometimes presents ideas well in interviews and lectures.

Every David Cage interview is a bore. I don't know if he speaks in cliche and rehashes ideas because of language barriers in his mind or through any games press translation, but I feel like, say, Iwata's personality and ideas shine through in transcripts.

games are for adults
developers right now are pitifully immature
despite cribbing from movies constantly, I want to make games
trust is important between developer, publisher, and audience
maturity means sex, violence, and pulp-level ponderousness about big ideas
we were misunderstood but now we made money and duped reviewers, so suck it

There. I'll be his agent from now on.
 
I enjoyed Heavy Rain and look forward to Beyond. I wish the industry had a couple more directors like Mr. Cage. I hope next gen tackles more games with non-traditional and even taboo subject matter.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
I feel offended Heavy Rain is compared to point and click adventure games.

The latter has a tendency to be witty without trying too hard to be artsy, have far much more interesting dialog and branching lines... oh an they tend lack QTEs.

It's as ignorant as Asura's Wrath is being compared to Dragon's Lair series (latter is superior).
 
I didn't find this interview all that fun.

Just like the games he's directed.

I feel offended Heavy Rain is compared to point and click adventure games.

The latter has a tendency to be witty without trying too hard to be artsy, have far much more interesting dialog and branching lines... oh an they tend lack QTEs.

It's as ignorant as Asura's Wrath is being compared to Dragon's Lair series (latter is superior).
Agreed 100%.
 

AniHawk

Member
My favorite part of Heavy Rain is when Madison, in search of a serial killer,
stumbles upon a different, entirely unrelated serial killer
who is never mentioned again.

heavy rain is entertaining as hell. it's best when played with other people to make fun of it, because you can't take anything in that thing seriously.
 
If Beyond were a movie instead of a game how would it be received? I imagine it could sell a few tickets.
It would fail, because no one wants to watch a 7 hour movie.

I will never, never, censor my work. It is imperative I include this scene of a naked woman peeing.
Gender equity you know. Every male character can take a pee, so she should be able to do the same :D

And she wasn't even naked there lol
 
Writing aside, I like what his studio does and will continue supporting them. No one else makes games like theirs.

This is a legitimate point I think. But that comes with a cross that Cage and his team have to bear. If nobody else in this industry is attempting games like his, I'd think that he has a certain responsibility to do his job at telling a compelling story. And so far, he hasn't been able to do that to a competent degree. His narratives are interesting on paper, but when translated into a game, combined with the awful character dialog and overall presentation, they fall flat.

In a perfect world, Beyond would launch and shut all the naysayers up. But, sadly, given Cage's history, that likely isn't going to be the case.

I hate to sound so goddamned negative about the guy, but his track record isn't exactly glowing.
 
This is a legitimate point I think. But that comes with a cross that Cage and his team have to bear. If nobody else in this industry is attempting games like his, I'd think that he has a certain responsibility to do his job at telling a compelling story. And so far, he hasn't been able to do that to a competent degree. His narratives are interesting on paper, but when translated into a game, combined with the awful character dialog and overall presentation, they fall flat.

In a perfect world, Beyond would launch and shut all the naysayers up. But, sadly, given Cage's history, that likely isn't going to be the case.

In a perfect world yes, but it is doubtful. I think this is a case for me where it is easy to overlook the story shortcomings if only because of the places and situations it puts me in. If that makes any sense.

In short, WHY the bad guy is pointing the gun at my partner is not as compelling as the fact that he may or may not shoot them if I do not act fast/reasonable enough.

No other entertainment medium can put you in this kind of situation. That holds a lot of value, for me anyway.
 

Boss Doggie

all my loli wolf companions are so moe
Eh, I guess I'm one of those who would prefer the genre not to "take off" if they end up being crap. It's not like there are no alternatives.
 
I wish the industry had a couple more directors like Mr. Cage.

No one else makes games like theirs.

See, that's really the thing for me: sure, maybe Cage is just a hack underneath it all, but his stuff, without question, is forward-thinking and unique. He's trying to take gaming (well, his games) to a different level and I applaud him for it.

And it's like, even if you hated Heavy Rain, you have to admit it could have been fucking awesome with a better, deeper script, and maybe a handful of design improvements.

I find it a solid 8/10 as it is. I platinum'd it. Lots of really cool moments.
 

Danny-Boy

Member
Heavy Rain and Catherine are some of the best games I've played this gen. I wish we had more developers like David Cage and the Persona team. I'm sick of playing the same old crap.
 
Mr. Cage is on to something special even if it isn't fully refined. We get to complain about it not being polished when he has contemporaries to compare him with. As of right now he is out there all by himself. Heavy Rain wasn't perfect, yet it offered some truly unique experiences that can't be found in abundance elsewhere.
 
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