InXile's Torment successor gets a name

Jun 7, 2004
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I think that sets a dangerous precedent. If companies are unwilling to make games unless their paid for in advance, but still happy to pocket the profits of said game after the fact, that puts a huge burden on consumers that wasn't there before. It ceases to be a "democratization" at that point.
Publishers will never be "unwilling to make games unless they are paid in advance" because their business is releasing games to make money from it. If they put up Kickstarters for everything, and half of them fail, and they decide to just sit on their hands and not make anything, they will go out of business. So there's really no concern there. There is no "dangerous precedent".
 
Mar 12, 2009
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Here's a real world example of what you're talking about: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/production-ig/masaaki-yuasas-kick-heart?ref=live

Kick-Heart is a 10 minute short anime film which was Kickstarted by Production IG. Production IG is one of the bigger animation studios in Japan, who produce hits like Ghost in the Shell, Patlabor, and so on. They have no problems getting funding for big commercial projects, and some of those are pretty profitable. But when it comes to funding a short film by a critically acclaimed but totally niche/arthouse director, it can be incredibly difficult to get commercial funding. So they turned to Kickstarter and got 200k out of it.

Clearly this shows that enough people's answer to that is in fact "yes".
Oh yeah, I know there are people out there who don't think/care about this sort of thing.

The scariest example is the Pathfinder MMO. They got publisher funding based on their first KS, and then went BACK to KS for another million "to make the game faster," which doesn't even make sense, since you're paying for man-hours either way. They just hustled their fans out of $1 million they absolutely did not need.

But that shit's wrong. They're taking advantage of people.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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Pro-tip: Worry about yourself, and let other people spend their money how they please. Trying to police what other people do with their money for their hobbies and personal interest makes you sound fucking annoying, and honestly a concern troll.
 
Mar 12, 2009
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I'm not telling anyone how to spend their money, just defending why I won't.

But yeah, I'll take your advice and back off, as this clearly isn't going anywhere at this point.

Also, long time no see duckroll. I remember you from #shmups and TNL.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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Oh yeah, I know there are people out there who don't think/care about this sort of thing.

The scariest example is the Pathfinder MMO. They got publisher funding based on their first KS, and then went BACK to KS for another million "to make the game faster," which doesn't even make sense, since you're paying for man-hours either way. They just hustled their fans out of $1 million they absolutely did not need.

But that shit's wrong. They're taking advantage of people.
Wait, so it's necessary to safeguard the people from their own money? Hello. KS approves all projects. Leave it to marketplace management and the individual to use their own judgment. With the internet on the case, interested people are given more than enough opportunities to hear the consensus and the concerns of the community. As with your very example, there was plenty of talk about it on GAF and more-connected sites offering up editorials and blog posts. People who pledge are very likely as informed as you or I.
 
Jun 7, 2004
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I'm not telling anyone how to spend their money, just defending why I won't.

But yeah, I'll take your advice and back off.

Also, long time no see duckroll. I remember you from #shmups and TNL.
I totally respect how other people spend their money too. It's entirely understandable why not everyone will want to fund a given Kickstarter. It could be a lack of faith in the pitch, or a feeling that the project doesn't need their support, or even that the project isn't deserving of crowdsourcing. That's all fine. In fact, people who don't want to help Kickstart a game can still benefit from buying the game after it is actually complete, if they deem that it turned out to be a good product. Win-win.

It's just rather... odd when you're aggressively arguing the point in a thread which was originally about a game getting a title and a composer being confirmed, so much so that you're the top poster in the thread on a topic completely unrelated to the original thread. I hope you understand why that makes it frustrating for people who are replying to you. It's fine that you wouldn't want to fund it, but beyond that... there isn't much point in arguing about it, in a thread like this in particular.

Man, #shmups and TNL. Those were the days. It really feels like a lifetime ago, especially in terms of discussion topics from then to now. RIP Dreamcast. :(
 
Jul 26, 2011
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Tides of Torment would be a little better, and just Tides would be pretty great. It's that fantasy noun, tacked onto the end like a exclamation point covered in pimples and a frayed Dragon Ball Z t-shirt.
Torment: Tides
of Numenera

really, just get rid of the fantasy name
 
Jun 7, 2004
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Torment: Tides
of Numenera

really, just get rid of the Fantasy name
Pretty sure that because they've essentially licensed someone else's property, they agreed to give it proper title reference. Especially with it being a new universe, the Numenara name probably has to be part of the product title the same as any prepackaged campaign setting for Dungeons & Dragons.
 
Jul 26, 2011
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Pretty sure that because they've essentially licensed someone else's property, they agreed to give it proper title reference. Especially with it being a new universe, the Numenara name probably has to be part of the product title the same as any prepackaged campaign setting for Dungeons & Dragons.
ah, alright then - I wasn't aware that Numenara is a complete new setting, just saw the Kickstarter. Science fantasy could be interesting and the artwork on their homepage is really nice.
 
Oct 27, 2011
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Kevin Saunders explains a bit about "Tides":

Well, as you have seen by now, we’ve gone with Torment: Tides of Numenera. =) You may wonder what the significance of "Tides" is. (These are not a core Numenera concept, though they are compatible with the setting in multiple ways.) The Tides are key levers (but not the only ones) in the choices and consequences system we’re designing. They could be loosely compared to D&D's alignments or Ultima IV's principles and virtues. But unlike alignments, they are not in direct opposition to each other and unlike the virtues, you won’t necessarily want to achieve them all. Nor can you, really... you’ll have to decide what’s most important to you.

The Tides are more nuanced and complex, with the “best” choice for any situation being a personal decision for you (or how you want to play) rather than a decision that we as designers judge. Now, NPCs in the game will certainly judge you based upon their own beliefs and agendas, but we will strive for the game itself to be impartial. We want to provide satisfying reactivity and allow you to explore your own answers, for you to play as you wish and have the game’s story unfold accordingly. We’ll talk more about the Tides down the road and there are aspects of the system for which we’ll be seeking backer input.
http://www.formspring.me/ksaun/q/422168444062946670
 
Dec 10, 2012
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germany
Website is up: https://torment.inxile-entertainment.com/

They're asking for feedback on pledge rewards.

Say no to backer-only in-game stuff.

Also this:
I'm getting really confused following all these kickstarter campaigns at the same time, (as excited as I am for every single one) so can someone please tell me, a person who is not 100% up to date with torment's current status, why crowdfunding again? I thought they made a lot of money via kickstarter already?
is it just to add some bonus features?
 
Jun 7, 2004
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. . . why crowdfunding again? I thought they made a lot of money via kickstarter already?
Well, WL2 isn't due for, at least, another six to nine months or even more. They've said it themselves that all of the KS funds from its pledge drive are going into the game's production, but that isn't enough because it's also significantly funded by Brian Fargo and Co., as well. No, KS doesn't make you lots of money as it's supposed to help pay for (or kickstart) development, but in the case of Wasteland 2, and likely the new Torment, it's not even enough to cover production completely. Honestly, I don't see where people are assuming that a few million dollars is enough to pay for the development of an entire large scale, complex, high quality RPG with an acceptable level of production values. InXile is super small, aiming to remain independent as possible, and is clearly making each project its own thing to live and die by its own set of backers who will ensure that the game has a core audience serious enough to begin full production with confidence.
 
Dec 10, 2012
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germany
Well, WL2 isn't due for, at least, another six to nine months or even more. They've said it themselves that all of the KS funds from its pledge drive are going into the game's production, but that isn't enough because it's also significantly funded by Brian Fargo and Co., as well. No, KS doesn't make you lots of money as it's supposed to help pay for (or kickstart) development, but in the case of Wasteland 2, and likely the new Torment, it's not even enough to cover production completely. Honestly, I don't see where people are assuming that a few million dollars is enough to pay for the development of an entire large scale, complex, high quality RPG with an acceptable level of production values. InXile is super small, aiming to remain independent as possible, and is clearly making each project its own thing to live and die by its own set of backers who will ensure that the game has a core audience serious enough to begin full production with confidence.
of course KS can not cover all the costs but they could have just extended the campaign to raise more money, like dreamfall chapters e.g.
I mean I have no problem with it I just wondered. so thanks for clearing things up a bit =)
 
Aug 7, 2012
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I for one will pledge to this KS because Wasteland looks amazing and I totally missed that by a mile and never knew about it, but I can also see how some people and some of you can be like "WTF?" when you pledged to one game and they are trying to get another. It does kind of looks shady in some aspects
 
Dec 10, 2012
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germany
I for one will pledge to this KS because Wasteland looks amazing and I totally missed that by a mile and never knew about it, but I can also see how some people and some of you can be like "WTF?" when you pledged to one game and they are trying to get another. It does kind of looks shady in some aspects
there aren't any updates for the pledge rewards yet or are there?

does anyone else dig the numenera concept art? *-* I'm in love. hopefully the game will be able to transport the setting's atmosphere
 
Jun 15, 2007
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I am digging it, has it been confirmed that they are sticking to the top down style of play or something new altogether?
It'll be top down, yeah. We'll use the Wasteland 2 engine again, though art style/camera wise details will still be straightened out. Ideal would of course be doing 2D painterly style, but that kind of depends on funding. Will do our best to get the right look, regardless.
 
Oct 1, 2006
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peter.metaclassofnil.com
It'll be top down, yeah. We'll use the Wasteland 2 engine again, though art style/camera wise details will still be straightened out. Ideal would of course be doing 2D painterly style, but that kind of depends on funding. Will do our best to get the right look, regardless.
Ok, I need some information now.

1) Are you the Brother None from NMA?
2) When and how did "they" in regard to inXile turn into "we" in your posts?

Sorry for the semi-OT/personal questions, but I'm incredibly intrigued.

Oh, and since you confirmed the perspective, can you also confirm whether the game will be TB or RtwP?
 
Jun 15, 2007
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1) Are you the Brother None from NMA?
Yup.

2) When and how did "they" in regard to inXile turn into "we" in your posts?
I've been engaged with inXile in an officious way for some time now, kinda working as a community manager type, but my workload kept increasing and Brian saw some potential here, so it made sense to bring me on board to work for them. Since a short while ago, I'm a line producer for inXile, doing production, Kickstarter and community interaction stuff for both WL2 and Torment.

Oh, and since you confirmed the perspective, can you also confirm whether the game will be TB or RtwP?
We're agnostic to that, as Kevin likes to put it. There's several possible combat designs the core team is building out, with a very solid precisely defined set of requirements as to the goals they have to fulfill, when it comes to expressing character customization, choices, unique mechanics (that we'll cover later) and allow for well-crafted encounters (we're opting for quality over quantity with combat). We're not planning to settle on one any time soon, instead we're building out the possibilities, and plan to engage the backers on this topic after funding. Because Torment has a nicely long pre-production phase, we can take our time to settle on such questions.
 
Mar 27, 2008
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goo.gl
I'm not telling anyone how to spend their money, just defending why I won't.

But yeah, I'll take your advice and back off, as this clearly isn't going anywhere at this point.

Also, long time no see duckroll. I remember you from #shmups and TNL.
Thank god, you were becoming unbearable.

To think we'd actually discuss the possibilities of this game; I hadn't heard about this project. But yet again I was roped into a deafening debate over Kickstarter.
 
Feb 17, 2009
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I feel like this is too soon. Wasteland 2 and Project Eternity already hit some of the highest goals in gaming Kickstarter history, I backed both enthusiastically and would just like to see some hunkering down to churn out the final products. If the results are as transcendent as we're all hoping then bring on further Kickstarters, I just don't see why there's a need to rush into yet another campaign. I'm also a bit concerned about Avellone dividing his attention too much between three different projects all running at the same time.
 
Dec 10, 2012
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germany
I feel like this is too soon. Wasteland 2 and Project Eternity already hit some of the highest goals in gaming Kickstarter history, I backed both enthusiastically and would just like to see some hunkering down to churn out the final products. If the results are as transcendent as we're all hoping then bring on further Kickstarters, I just don't see why there's a need to rush into yet another campaign. I'm also a bit concerned about Avellone dividing his attention too much between three different projects all running at the same time.
I don't see why not tbh. of course they will all be hunkering down to deliver something good, I think the risk that they end up with a rushed and halfdone product would be way higher if they followed the standard work process of having some huge publisher up their asses but how things seem to be right now, it just feels like different highly motivated groups of people are doing their best to realize each individual project. at least that's my impression.
they could have waited with this but the popularity and acceptance of crowdfunding feel like at a peak right now so maybe it was just the right moment
 
Feb 17, 2009
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I don't see why not tbh. of course they will all be hunkering down to deliver something good, I think the risk that they end up with a rushed and halfdone product would be way higher if they followed the standard work process of having some huge publisher up their asses but how things seem to be right now, it just feels like different highly motivated groups of people are doing their best to realize each individual project. at least that's my impression.
they could have waited with this but the popularity and acceptance of crowdfunding feel like at a peak right now so maybe it was just the right moment
To phrase this another way, it looks like Project Eternity is on its way to becoming literally everything I want in a modern fantasy setting RPG. In that light, I'm not sure I see a need for a Torment successor. I would just like Avellone to devote all his attention to making Project Eternity a landmark title and not get sidetracked with yet another project. If he's tackling three games at the same time plus whatever else he has to deal with at Obsidian, I can't help but feel that one or more titles is going to suffer. That's my main reason for wanting them to hold off on this until Wasteland 2 or Project Eternity ships.
 
Oct 27, 2011
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Uh, MCA is really only involved with P:E at the moment (beyond overseeing all Obsidian projects, since he's the creative officer). His work on WL2 finished a while ago and all he's got left of it is the novella. He's not going to be involved with TTN.
 
Dec 10, 2012
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germany
To phrase this another way, it looks like Project Eternity is on its way to becoming literally everything I want in a modern fantasy setting RPG. In that light, I'm not sure I see a need for a Torment successor. I would just like Avellone to devote all his attention to making Project Eternity a landmark title and not get sidetracked with yet another project. If he's tackling three games at the same time plus whatever else he has to deal with at Obsidian, I can't help but feel that one or more titles is going to suffer. That's my main reason for wanting them to hold off on this until Wasteland 2 or Project Eternity ships.
well that's your personal preference, there are many people who are actually really excited about torment. plus I'm not sure but I think the release dates won't be that close, the projects all seem to be in different stages of developement right now if I'm not completely mistaken so that's that.
also I don't know to what extend avellone is needed in all campaigns, what role does he exactly play in the developement of torment? edit: ok, thanks lancehead
 
Oct 1, 2006
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peter.metaclassofnil.com
Great, that gives me a good feeling regarding the project.

We're agnostic to that, as Kevin likes to put it. There's several possible combat designs the core team is building out, with a very solid precisely defined set of requirements as to the goals they have to fulfill, when it comes to expressing character customization, choices, unique mechanics (that we'll cover later) and allow for well-crafted encounters (we're opting for quality over quantity with combat). We're not planning to settle on one any time soon, instead we're building out the possibilities, and plan to engage the backers on this topic after funding. Because Torment has a nicely long pre-production phase, we can take our time to settle on such questions.
So what you're saying is, I better start saving now if I want RtwP. Got it.

Jokes aside, I generally prefer RtwP to TB in RPGs (unlike strategy games). And particularly with the comparatively huge amount of turn based top-down RPGs coming up over the next few years, and the fact that PST was RtwP, I'd hope for Torment to continue that play style.