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Iran Quds Force head Qassem Soleimani killed in Baghdad strike

matt404au

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You're not wrong, but the question here is striking the right balance. You don't decapitate a child for instigating a fist fight, firstly because it's morally wrong (not a concern in this case, fuck this guy) but from a practical standpoint think about the repercussions: you get arrested and go to jail for the rest of your life. In the case of this targeted assassination, there are all sorts of unanswered questions with the appropriateness of the response because of what it could lead to. Blow up 150 Iranian randos as a response and maybe that makes them think twice about fucking with us again, but brazenly kill this sack of shit and you piss people off to the point of them retaliating with asymmetrical warfare where we really don't have a great option to win...whereas all Iran wants to do is cause us pain since their economy is in shambles already, it's run by religious fanatics with martyr complexes and they have nothing to lose.



Right, which is bad, and we don't want it to get worse. Whether or not it will is the open question to be seen.
I see your point but I disagree. This has been a long time coming and they’ve had several warnings yet they kept escalating. This is what Obama should’ve done instead of unfreezing their assets and letting them carry on with their small dog syndrome.
 

JORMBO

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*Trump withdraws troops abandoning allies* "Good this is exactly what should happen don't get involved in any of this shit in the middle east that Bush and Obama perpetuated"

*An American was killed and the US Emabassy was attacked. More attacks being planned.

*Trump assassinates highest ranking military commander of middle eastern country in retaliation for some vandalism, sends in troops* "Good this is exactly what should happen we need to show the middle east who's boss unlike Obama who didn't have any red lines"
I updated your timeline with the event you are missing in bold/underline to your quote above. Maybe things will make sense to you now.
 
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cryptoadam

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They're one of the oldest countries on earth. I would be interested in knowing how many wars have they actually started in their whole existence.

In fact, it was in more recent history they were actually invaded during both world wars. So maybe there is some truth that Persians aren't actually warmongers until something changed them?
Look what happened in 1979 that probably might tell you why Iran took a wrong turn along the way.

then Look up the Shiite Crescent.

Also look up 12th Madhi + Iran, here is a bit of a prepper

Iran is a fervently Shiite Islamic Republic with a 98 percent Muslim population and 89 percent of those Muslims identifying as Shiite according to the CIA World Factbook. Twelver Shiism is the largest branch of Shiite Islam, with about 85 percent of Shiite adhering to the belief in the 12th Imam. Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the father of the Islamic Revolution in Iran, was a Twelver. So is the current Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, and President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Now, what does this mean? They believe that a series of Imams was appointed to carry on the Prophet Muhammad's message and that these Imam rank above all other prophets except for Muhammad himself. The 12th, Muhammad al-Mahdi, is believed by these Shiites to have been born in present-day Iraq in 869 and never to have died, only gone into hiding. Twelvers—not other Shiites or Sunni Muslims—believe that al-Mahdi will return as a messiah with Jesus to bring peace to the world and establish Islam as the ruling faith across the globe.

The apocalyptic catch? The Mahdi is expected to appear when the world is wracked by utter chaos and war. Many Sunnis also believe that the Mahdi will come in such a judgment day scenario, but believe that he has not been born yet.


Iran is ruled by a group of relegious whakos that believe this stuff and would activly try and bring about this un dead Mahdi to establish Islam as the ruling faith across the globe.
 

Woo-Fu

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They're one of the oldest countries on earth. I would be interested in knowing how many wars have they actually started in their whole existence.

In fact, it was in more recent history they were actually invaded during both world wars. So maybe there is some truth that Persians aren't actually warmongers until something changed them?


And I understand why the U.S is in the middle east, but I disagree that it's not necessary for America to be there. Again, before the 1950s, America was doing fine without them. Yet why all of a sudden do boots have to be there?
You might be replying to the wrong person, I never said anything about Iran being warmongers. In fact they've spent the better part of the last 40 years avoiding war at all costs, using proxies instead of their own forces. That was Soleimani's job and he was damn good at it. They push and push to see what they can get away with, get slapped down and then go quiet for a bit before they start pushing again. I fully expect those proxies to continue business as usual. People who don't understand will blame that on Soleimani's removal, comfortably ignoring that they were going to do all of those things anyway, just even better with a mastermind helping them.

Lots of people were doing fine without being in the middle east before the 1950s. Then the world economy hit overdrive and GDP per capita quintupled. What drove that? Fossil fuels. What is the most important piece of territory when it comes to supplying the world economy with fossil fuels? The Strait of Hormuz. While America has almost free'd itself from a reliance upon middle eastern oil, large parts of the global economy our economy relies upon hasn't.
 
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Mahadev

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The difference is that when our congress finds out about it they throw a fit and have a bunch of hearings, lots of people get charged with felonies, most of which they avoid with expensive lawyers. CIA ends up with a massive black eye and is on everybody's shit list in Washington for an indefinite period of time.

In Iran on the other hand, it was part of his job and he probably got medals for it.

In either case, that was then, this is now. You probably wouldn't find the leadership of the CIA in another country encouraging proxy forces to storm an embassy, though, either then or now. I'm not sure wtf Iran's leadership was thinking but they drastically underestimated Trump's willingness to use decisive force.

I'm not sure what the peaceniks think you're supposed to do when somebody is repeatedly attacking you, give them a cupcake and cross your fingers?

Is... is this a joke? CIA has been caught numerous times committing crimes against humanity and nothing has happened to them. This fake sense of morality the US government has is nothing but a huge lie maintained by propaganda. CIA and its proxy organizations continue to subvert democracy, organize coup d'etats, spread lies and propaganda and nothing happens to them. Like someone else mentioned they're even involved with meddling in US elections and still, nothing.
 

bigedole

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This is exactly what I am talking about. I don't support further troop deployments to the area therefore you try and paint me as some kind of terrorist sympathizer that is upset that the general is dead despite me having said literally nothing of the sort.


"You don't like what Trump is doing? Oh then you must be *insert intellectually dishonest insult/argument here*." - Trump supporters


Everytime.
Instead of playing the victim for the millionth time, why don't you try answering the question that was asked? When a US embassy is attacked, what do you suggest is an appropriate response? Most people here that you're arguing against don't consider letting Americans die like Obama and Hillary did a good answer.

Don't generalize, don't pretend to be a victim of our awful bullying, just answer the question.
 

DragoonKain

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I’m not gonna read this whole thread, so I’ll just say that with any foreign military related actions it’s always a tough decision with no “right answers” and you try to find what is “less wrong.”

I don’t like war, I don’t want any of our military or citizens to die. That said, I don’t think we will go to war with Iran and I think talks about a WW3 are extremely unlikely.

Now people will argue that if we went to war with Iraq for bullshit reasons(WMDs) then we can go to war again for bullshit reasons. And that’s true, but don’t forget that the narrative being put out back then wasn’t just the WMDs... it was that Saddam harbored terrorists, and America was fresh off of 9/11 and everybody was pissed off in this country at the Muslim world so yeah there were people against the war back then too, but a lot of people were for it and the people for it were more for it because they felt Iraq and Saddam was partly responsible for 9/11 and the WMD stuff was almost an aside.

This time around I think there’d be significantly less public support than the war in Iraq considering the differences in circumstances. So I really don’t see a war happening, and certainly not a WW3.. what it takes to start a war the scale of a world war so many things have to happen we aren’t even 1/100th down the checklist of things that need to take place for a world war to happen.
 

Guynamedbilly

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Not knowing much about it yet, I'm torn on this response. Much simpler would have been to attack the people attacking our military.

But the generals would still be sitting back provoking further attacks. This will definitely make the people who matter think twice.

It instinctively feels bad.
 

JordanN

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Iran is ruled by a group of relegious whakos that believe this stuff and would activly try and bring about this un dead Mahdi to establish Islam as the ruling faith across the globe.
And the Kim Jong family also believe they are divine rulers of their nation.

I still see no reason to be afraid of these people since common sense still says an all at war will spell destruction for everyone. And most people still tend to value their own lives before submitting to some religious prophesy.

The ones who don't have already killed themselves (i.e Jim Jones, Heaven's Gate, ISIS suicide bombers, etc).
 
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Woo-Fu

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Is... is this a joke? CIA has been caught numerous times committing crimes against humanity and nothing has happened to them. This fake sense of morality the US government has is nothing but a huge lie maintained by propaganda. CIA and its proxy organizations continue to subvert democracy, organize coup d'etats, spread lies and propaganda and nothing happens to them. Like someone else mentioned they're even involved with meddling in US elections and still, nothing.

 
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JordanN

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Lots of people were doing fine without being in the middle east before the 1950s. Then the world economy hit overdrive and GDP per capita quintupled. What drove that? Fossil fuels. What is the most important piece of territory when it comes to supplying the world economy with fossil fuels? The Strait of Hormuz. While America has almost free'd itself from a reliance upon middle eastern oil, large parts of the global economy our economy relies upon hasn't.
Is there evidence that the world wouldn't be able to survive without middle eastern oil?

It reminds me of how during the U.S Civil War, the Confederates believed that Europe would have sided with them because at the time, they were one of the largest suppliers of cotton.

Except what happened was the Confederacy was totally abandoned and Europe just got their cotton from India instead.

Canada and Venezuela have huge amounts of oil as well as the U.S themselves. Prices may just get higher and the Middle East that would just go back to bombing each other to rubble.
 
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Instead of playing the victim for the millionth time, why don't you try answering the question that was asked? When a US embassy is attacked, what do you suggest is an appropriate response? Most people here that you're arguing against don't consider letting Americans die like Obama and Hillary did a good answer.

Don't generalize, don't pretend to be a victim of our awful bullying, just answer the question.
Literally anything but military force. definitely don't bomb their most important general. Heavy sanctions and other more diplomatic options exist for a reason. And no immediate troop deployment to the area.

Killing the general was reckless and stupid regardless of how terrible he was. But reckless and stupid is par for the course at this point for Trump's Administration.
 

infinitys_7th

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Literally anything but military force. definitely don't bomb their most important general. Heavy sanctions and other more diplomatic options exist for a reason. And no immediate troop deployment to the area.

Killing the general was reckless and stupid regardless of how terrible he was. But reckless and stupid is par for the course at this point for Trump's Administration.

So you want troops kept in Syria to aid in destabilizing one of the most stable, peaceful governments in the region in support of terrorists, but we should try peaceful measures NOT INCLUDING DEPLOYMENT when our country is attacked.

They do exist. And had been tried. Now he is bloody confetti.
 

cryptoadam

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And the Kim Jong family also believe they are divine rulers of their nation.

I still see no reason to be afraid of these people since common sense still says an all at war will spell destruction for everyone. And most people still tend to value their own lives before submitting to some religious prophesy.

The ones who don't have already killed themselves (i.e Jim Jones, Heaven's Gate, ISIS suicide bombers, etc).
You asked if something changed so I was trying to shed some light on this change.

And bringing in NK isn't really helping out, everyone pretty much realizes NK is a rogue and crazy regime.

Iran isn't chanting Death to Canada, but they do chant Death To America, so maybe American's might be onto something.
 

Woo-Fu

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Is there evidence that the world wouldn't be able to survive without middle eastern oil?
Reductio ad Absurdum much?

40% of the world's oil supply flows through the Strait of Hormuz. Would the world survive without it? Sure it would. Would the global economy as we know it? Nope. Would our current standard of living? Nope.

When you've managed to wean every industrialized nation off of oil we can stop being worried about Iran's ability and multiple threats to shut down the strait.

People don't really understand how reliant the US is upon the world economy. An easy way to illustrate this is to take a look at this chart. https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/statistics/highlights/top/top1812yr.html

That's 1.6 trillion dollars in exports and 2.5 trillion dollars in imports.
 
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So you want troops kept in Syria to aid in destabilizing one of the most stable, peaceful governments in the region in support of terrorists, but we should try peaceful measures NOT INCLUDING DEPLOYMENT when our country is attacked.
What does the mess in Syria have to do with this? They are two completely different situations.
 

JordanN

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You asked if something changed so I was trying to shed some light on this change.

And bringing in NK isn't really helping out, everyone pretty much realizes NK is a rogue and crazy regime.

Iran isn't chanting Death to Canada, but they do chant Death To America, so maybe American's might be onto something.
They'll never go through with it.

Just as how North Korea constantly baits Japan and the rest of Asia with threats and provocations, no one seriously expects to fight another war without it destroying everyone.

Even if we pretend that Iran seriously is this supervillain the media makes them out to be, how exactly are they going to damage the U.S? They'll never be able to move their entire army and land on U.S shores without being blown up in the water. They can only attack U.S bases in the Middle East in which case, the end result is still the same (complete annihilation).

And this also assumes their country doesn't suffer some kind of societal breakdown. When Hitler waged his war during WW2, he began to create more enemies in his own home country that ultimately wanted him dead (see the almost successful July plot). The same could happen to Iran where even the hardliners had enough and they just go ahead with a coup.
 
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infinitys_7th

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What does the mess in Syria have to do with this? They are two completely different situations.
Yes, one of them is an ongoing attempt to wreck country which has done nothing to the US and which was framed by NGOs and "rebels" as having used chemical weapons. The other is defending American soil.

You want the US to use military force and resources to play world police for nebulous ends, which is offensive action and actual warmongering, but not defend itself against acts of war.
 
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Yes, one of them is an ongoing attempt to wreck country which has done nothing to the US and which was framed by NGOs and "rebels" as having used chemical weapons. The other is defending American soil.

You want the US to use military force and resources to play world police for nebulous ends, which is offensive action and actual warmongering, but not defend itself against acts of war.
The only act of war that has happened here is the US killing the top general of a foreign nation.
 

DeepEnigma

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Democrats: "We should accept attacks on American soil! Any retaliation is warmongering! Just take it up the ass, US!"

Also Democrats: "OMG TRUMP LEFT ASSAD IN POWER HES WEAK ON CHEMICAL WEAPONS HE LOVES RUSSIA TRAITOR"
I remember all the salty cunts criticizing Trump for pulling out of Syria.

“Pull our troops out of the Middle East... buuuuut...”

:messenger_weary: :messenger_ok:
 

JordanN

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Reductio ad Absurdum much?

40% of the world's oil supply flows through the Strait of Hormuz. Would the world survive without it? Sure it would. Would the global economy as we know it? Nope. Would our current standard of living? Nope.

When you've managed to wean every industrialized nation off of oil we can stop being worried about Iran's ability and multiple threats to shut down the strait.
Supply vs demand.
Oil already exists everywhere. Why wouldn't the world just pay a higher price instead, or just develop new technology to offset losing the Middle East?

If we even get more electric cars out of this, then ditching the middle east would be a good thing.
 
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PanzerAzel

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So you actually believe that? That things on the grand scale of US foreign policy are being done without any thought or planning? Do you realize how dumb that sounds?

Not agreeing with policies or plans...fine...but you actually think everyone is "winging it?" That is just such a small-minded comment that I shouldn't even bother saying anything, but this is the kind of shit that Twittiots click Like on all day. Don't be one of those. Have some respect for yourself.
Perhaps winging it is too blunt a way to put it. But you’re going to have to cut me some slack for seeing some inconsistencies in this foreign policy, combined with an administration that’s had an unprecedented turnover rate due to a man who is incredibly impulsive and who, by his own admission, “acts from the gut”. Do I think this was an action that had no planning? Of course not. Do I think there’s any long term goal and strategy at play or in consideration of actions taken? I’m heavily skeptical.

This guy ain’t small peanuts. This is a significant target that potentially portends severe repercussions that far past extend, and risk elevation far past, Trump’s stated foreign policy goal of keeping to our own and staying out of foreign entanglements. Not to say that I disagree with this move, but I don’t believe such a drastic step was necessary in retaliation for the problem that it was meant to address, and it is a move that strikes me as non concordant with Trump’s foreign policy stance up to this point. Exemplified by as much in more than a few Trump supporters’ opinions, some in this very thread.

That has nothing to do with “self respect”.
 
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infinitys_7th

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The only act of war that has happened here is the US killing the top general of a foreign nation.
A general who organized an attack on US soil, which is an act of war. I'm pretty sure it is also a war crime because he attacked an embassy.

Strange how that fact is always missing from your narrative.
 
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Woo-Fu

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Supply vs demand.
Oil already exists everywhere. Why wouldn't the world just pay a higher price instead, or just develop new technology to offset losing the Middle East?

If we even get more electric cars out of this, then ditching the middle east would be a good thing.
Better yet, why not just wave a magic wand? Why isn't the world using your easy and simple solutions to these issues. Hmmm.
 
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cryptoadam

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They'll never go through with it.

Just as how North Korea constantly baits Japan and the rest of Asia with threats and provocations, no one seriously expects to fight another war without it destroying everyone.

Even if we pretend that Iran seriously is this supervillain the media makes them out to be, how exactly are they going to damage the U.S? They'll never be able to move their entire army and land on U.S shores without being blown up in the water. They can only attack U.S bases in the Middle East in which case, the end result is still the same (complete annihilation).

And this also assumes their country doesn't suffer some kind of societal breakdown. When Hitler waged his war during WW2, he began to create more enemies in his own home country that ultimately wanted him dead (see the almost successful July plot). The same could happen to Iran where even the hardliners had enough and they just go ahead with a coup.
Here read this there is no pretending:


As far as societal breakdown thats what is almost happening in Iran. You know they have had mulitple peoples uprising over the years? You can go back to 2009 and the green revolution, or recently where Iran allegedly killed 1500 protestors.
So ya the goal is kinda to hope that the crazy Mullahs are gotten rid of and sensible people can be put in charge of Iran and the country can become normal. Iranians don't like living under their relegious theocracy that is wasting money on adventures across the ME trying to set up their Shiite Crescent while the people starve, are locked out of the internet, killed, and suffer from droughts.

The problem isn't the people of Iran, its the crazy Mullahs that have a hate boner for the USA and Jews.
 

DeepEnigma

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The only act of war that has happened here is the US killing the top general of a foreign nation.
Yet it’s not an act of war for General Gibs to orchestrate an attack of a US Embassy and hundreds of American and Ally death’s over the years in places he doesn’t reside in?

You’re a fake ass punk bitch. Your morals are no better than the rest of us, cunt.
 
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Yet it’s not an act of war for General Gibs to orchestrate an attack of a US Embassy and hundreds of American and Ally death’s over the years in places he doesn’t reside in?

You’re a fake ass punk bitch. Your morals are no better than the rest of us, cunt.
Yeah throw schoolyard insults. That will definitely make me take your point seriously.
 

Woo-Fu

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There are already countries trying to make the transition away from fossil fuels, so it's not an unrealistic expectation.

It would hurt in the short term, but the long term benefits give the world more autonomy and a cleaner environment.
And both the long and short terms in your example are longer than what is required to deal with a state that is prosecuting a war against America via proxies. You're talking about what will be nice somewhere in the hazy future, not what will deal with issues today.
 

JordanN

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Here read this there is no pretending:


As far as societal breakdown thats what is almost happening in Iran. You know they have had mulitple peoples uprising over the years? You can go back to 2009 and the green revolution, or recently where Iran allegedly killed 1500 protestors.
So ya the goal is kinda to hope that the crazy Mullahs are gotten rid of and sensible people can be put in charge of Iran and the country can become normal. Iranians don't like living under their relegious theocracy that is wasting money on adventures across the ME trying to set up their Shiite Crescent while the people starve, are locked out of the internet, killed, and suffer from droughts.

The problem isn't the people of Iran, its the crazy Mullahs that have a hate boner for the USA and Jews.
Saddam was doing the same thing. It still wasn't worth it to overthrow him and wage a multi-trillion dollar war.
 

Aceofspades

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So I see a lot of misinformation here and I want to set things straight a bit.

FAQ WITH AN IRANIAN

WHO WAS KILLED?

Commander Qassem Soleimani was a warhero from the Iran-Iraq war who lead the Qods Force which is something close to SEAL/Delta/CIA mix. Extremely popular figure in Iran and outside revered by everyone even people who are against the government. He himself was not considered particularly religious and often butted heads with the mullahs.

WILL HIS KILLING CHANGE ANYTHING?
No. He was a symbolic figure within Iranian forces and the greater Shia community. The real masterminds are not revealed.

DID THE US DELIBERATELY KILL HIM?
Doubtful. Most likely the US wanted to take out PMU-leader unaware that Soleimani was there as well, in fact him being there is very suspicious as he doesn't travel using conventional methods like taking a plane ride to Baghdad airport. To save face they said he was the target, they are now scrambling to remove personnel from Iraq.

WILL IRAN RETALIATE?
No. Not directly. Iran will keep playing it's chess game and undermine the US at every turn as it's been doing for decades now. Making rash decisions is not Iran's M.O.
I stop at warhero ... now tell me, what was a high Iranian figure doing in IRAQ? He was feeding his militias that he planted in most arab countries for decades.

He said a warhero 🤣
 

TeamGhobad

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I stop at warhero ... now tell me, what was a high Iranian figure doing in IRAQ? He was feeding his militias that he planted in most arab countries for decades.

He said a warhero 🤣
yes a warhero during the Iran-Iraq war....you should have continued reading.
 
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cryptoadam

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Saddam was doing the same thing. It still wasn't worth it to overthrow him and wage a multi-trillion dollar war.
Well I am not advocating for a mult-trillion dollar war nor overthrowing the Mullahs. I want the Iranian people to overthrow the Mullahs, they deserve better.

And taking out a few HVTs is a way better option then sending some bombers over Iran and killing a few 1000 innocent people.
 

Aceofspades

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more like sunnis and kurds
Sunnis and Kurds are part of Arabic IRAQ. Now tell me what IRAN is doing to their 20m Sunni Ahwaz , you wouldn't say, anyways Solimani was the best barbeque that USA offered at the start of the new year. Lets see what IRAN will do....only barking as usual , they are good at it since 1979 when they turned into this backward country led by those religious fanatics. Sad because it was one great country led by a great king.
 
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TeamGhobad

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Sunnis and Kurds are part of Arabic IRAQ. Now tell me what IRAN is doing to their 20m Sunni Ahwaz , you wouldn't say, anyways Solimani was the best barbeque that USA offered at the start of the new year. Lets see what IRAN will do....only barking as usual , they are good at it since 1979 when they turned into this backward country led by those religious fanatics. Sad because it was one great country led by a great king.
there are not 20million arabs in iran. less than 600k and the majority in Ahwaz are not Arabs but Bakhtiaris and offshoot of Lors who are a nomadic people like the kurds. your disrespect online shows what a child you i doubt you will say this infront of me.
 

Aceofspades

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Well I am not advocating for a mult-trillion dollar war nor overthrowing the Mullahs. I want the Iranian people to overthrow the Mullahs, they deserve better.

And taking out a few HVTs is a way better option then sending some bombers over Iran and killing a few 1000 innocent people.
The Iranian people has been trying to overthrow this regime for years, in fact every year you see a revolution there that the west strangely turn a blind eye to it. Thousands are killed and prisoned every year.

Now Iran, a country that have one of the largest oil reserves in the world coupled with huge reserves of Natural gas and the world biggest exporter of Saffron, their people are living below poverty standards unlike Gulf states (UAE, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and others) despite these countries not having as much natural gifts (oil, gas, water...etc)

Iran has been run to the ground by the crazy Mullah and their belive of exporting disasters upon Arab countries.
 

Aceofspades

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there are not 20million arabs in iran. less than 600k and the majority in Ahwaz are not Arabs but Bakhtiaris and offshoot of Lors who are a nomadic people like the kurds. your disrespect online shows what a child you i doubt you will say this infront of me, if you live in sweden i will gladly give you my cellphone number so we can discuss this person to person. if not keep your whore mouth shut. and enjoy the blacks fucking all your women.
You say Sweden? You must be Iranian who fled Iran because of your "Warheroes" 🤣

Back to Next gen speculation thread, something more important and relevant than this barbequed nobody 🤣
 
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When was the last time you posted outside Politics board in the videogame forum neogaf.com?

Heck, when was the last time you posted a thread outside politics board?
Probably sometime before the lead up to the holidays when I had more time to play. What does that have to do with anything though?
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Probably sometime before the lead up to the holidays when I had more time to play. What does that have to do with anything though?
Maybe reevaluate why you're on the forum if you can't even remember the last time you discussed videogames on a videogame forum, that's all. I know that's asking a lot out of you when your modus operandi has been to spread FUD, but it's a new year. Make 2020 a turning point.