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Iran Quds Force head Qassem Soleimani killed in Baghdad strike

autoduelist

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So I've been giving this endless thought, listening to a lot of the usual commentators I check out, plus a lot of randoms.

The first thing I'd like to dismiss as a narrative are the 'trump cultist' type posts claiming trump posters are all in line with this. Patently false. Tons of mixed feelings, direct opposition, as well as support - feelings are all over the map. Some people don't like the strike, many people are okay with it given the target, most don't like the 'cultural' site comment, though some see it as just swagger [I haven't heard anyone with my take, but that's okay.] But the point is, it's obvious tensions are high.

I'm pretty even keeled. It takes a lot to rile me, I don't stress out. That includes this situation, and so i really gave a thought to why I'm not phased. At all. And I think it's because I simply don't see this resulting in anything remotely like WW3. Honestly, it doesn't feel like the build up to any war we have ever been in during my lifetime. The media usually cheerleads war, they don't lash out against it.

We heard endlessly why we needed to enter Iraq in the Gulf War. They trotted out the now debunked Nayirah testimony as propaganda [look it up, the media used a lying child to goad us into war]. And who can forget 911 being used to get us in everywhere? Or the WMD lies. The media has pushed war on us for decades... lie after lie after lie... but here? We see the exact opposite. All of a sudden the media is against war? Nah. Not buying it. Nope. The media has always been complicit in the war machine. Always. Bought and paid for [often literally owned by major corporation in the MIC]

Heck, Hillary Clinton said in 2008: "“I want the Iranians to know that if I’m president, we will attack Iran. In the next 10 years, during which they might foolishly consider launching an attack on Israel, we would be able to totally obliterate them."

This isn't the only time she rattled sabers against Iran and elsewhere. She is a straight up warmonger. So why was the media relatively silent about her, but are constantly up in arms with Trump? Why do I have the feeling if HRC was president, we'd already be in war [her war], but with the media's blessing? Why was John Kerry meeting with Iranians in 2018 without authorization/official role?

Rather than the standard buildup to war we've seen time and time again, where we're spoonfed propaganda, here the media is freaking out and practically defending terrorist leaders. This feels like drama, not war propaganda. This feels more like another round of 'omg Quadaffi is going to end the world!', 'omg North Korea!', zika!, mad cow disease!, bird flu!polar ice caps melting! Acid rain! Ozone layer! Ebola!... On and on and on.

And each time? Nothing. pure unadulterated fear mongering. Everybody knows the media fearmongers, yet so many get caught up in it each time anyway. Hell, we've already seen this with trump before with his election, with syria, with North Korea [this one gets trotter out on the regular], and now here. But if we were going to go to war, where is the propaganda this time? Why isn't the media pulling the same shit they always do?

And so i realized that is why I'm perfectly calm. This does not feel like a precipice. This does not feel like we're being dragged into war by being duped into complicity. Rather, this feels like more TDS. Just more temper tantrums because Trump isn't playing the warmonger game HRC was supposed to. Which is why I find myself tending to believe it is relatively likely this terrorist was actually planning a strike, as we've heard, and so ending him prior to said strike actually may have prevented a war.

And I realize that I say that after Trump just bombed an Iranian General. It should sound like escalation to me. If it were a Bush, Clinton, or Obama, I would figure we're in it for the long haul. But I'd also expect the media to play wingman. And they aren't here.

Anyway, it's late, and I'm tired, and repeating myself. So i'll end this here. And perhaps I'm wrong... but i do not think Trump is trying to lead us towards war, but away from it. Of course, Iran is a wild card, and could force our hand. But they could have done that regardless. Terrorists are terrorists. But the fact we don't have crying children or wmds is very promising to me.


Ps - here is Biden in 1996 talking about Iran:

 
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nani17

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That meme is actually really funny. Where it it from?
(I refuse to belive the crazy left has learnt how to make funny memes so I guess, it is from 4chan?)
Yeah because absolutely non of the left is funny because they're all the same....... Yanks 🙄
 
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sahlberg

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Yeah because absolutely non of the left is funny because they're all the same....... Yanks 🙄
Ehrr no. The sane left can often be very funny. See Jimmy Dore for example. He is fscking awesomely funny. The insane left however is never funny because they are preoccupied by never doing or saying anything that could be seen as offensive. A stance that by default is incompatible with humor.

But where was the meme from? It is really funny and I may want to check that place out in case they have other very pointed but very funny memes.
 
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nani17

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Ehrr no. The sane left can often be very funny. See Jimmy Dore for example. He is fscking awesomely funny. The crazy left however is never funny because they are preoccupied by never doing or saying anything that could be seen as offensive. A stance that by default is incompatible with humor.

But where was the meme from? It is really funny and I may want to check that place out in case they have other very pointed but very funny memes.


Found it on left leaning SJW Facebook 🙄😉
 
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autoduelist

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That meme is actually really funny. Where it it from?
(I refuse to belive the crazy left has learnt how to make funny memes so I guess, it is from 4chan?)
It is funny either way. Good work, thanks for making me laugh.
I saw it this morning on The Donald, i think. Or maybe the new .win
 

sahlberg

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Found it on left leaning SJW Facebook 🙄😉
And no one called them out for making abelist jokes?
I mean, either not being able to talk clearly so other people understand what you said?
Or abelist as in not being able to hear what the other person said?

That sounds VERY abelist and exclusionary to me. Better cancel some people.
(I am just making fun on that person, it is just a joke. Don't take it personally)

Fun meme regardless. Post more of them if you see more of them. God Speed.
 
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nani17

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And no one called them out for making abelist jokes?
I mean, either not being able to talk clearly so other people understand what you said?
Or abelist as in not being able to hear what the other person said?

That sounds VERY abelist and exclusionary to me. Better cancel some people.
(I am just making fun on that person, it is just a joke. Don't take it personally)

Fun meme regardless. Post more of them if you see more of them. God Speed.
Just trolling you it's Monday 😂
 

sahlberg

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Just trolling you it's Monday 😂
It was a good and funny troll.
Please troll me again. Seriously. It was funny. We need more of laughter and making harmless jokes and jabs and less of crazy ideological bs.

I am honest. The meme did make me smile. Thanks for that. We don;t have to take everything super seriously all the time. We can just look at memes and laugh and have fun. God Speed. And thanks.
 

llien

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President Trump has threatened severe sanctions against Iraq after its parliament called on US troops to leave the country.

"We have a very extraordinarily expensive air base that's there. It cost billions of dollars to build. We're not leaving unless they pay us back for it," he told reporters.
Not leaving the country, when asked to, is quite Russian style.
 

accel

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I will say this - it seems to me this might have been someone else's decision with Trump's role limited to OK'ing or not OK'ing it. He OK'd. Probably in part because this is a show of force and like a lot of us, Trump likes to show off. But I cannot escape the feeling that this is someone else's agenda and someone else's big picture. Maybe I am wrong. Maybe it is Trump's big picture. But maybe not and this is what worries me.

PS: The guy was worth killing, etc.
 
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Dev1lXYZ

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Your solution is to kill millions of civilians and then laugh about it?

Congrats, you're a piece of shite and a fucking moron to boot.
I was simply providing a long term solution that was the cheapest and had the least amount of American lives lost. If there is a vector out, that would be the one that would bring peace and stability to that region forever.
 

Cybrwzrd

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Your solution is to kill millions of civilians and then laugh about it?

Congrats, you're a piece of shite and a fucking moron to boot.
Civilians are the lifeblood of a war machine. Can't build munitions and feed solders without workers and farmers. Why do you think both the Axis and the Allies targeted civilians in WW2?

Not saying it is a "good" thing, but you can't win a war by acting like civilians are innocent. War isn't a "good" thing. But if the end goal is to win, then you shouldn't pull punches. That's what drags this shit out for decades.
 
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autoduelist

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Not leaving the country, when asked to, is quite Russian style.
Darn. That i don't like. Get our troops home.

Edit: actually, headline was slightly misleading:

"We have a very extraordinarily expensive air base that's there. It cost billions of dollars to build. We're not leaving unless they pay us back for it," he told reporters.

Ok, then, Iraq paying us a couple billion and us leaving would be fine by me, lol. Out!
 
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Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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Swedish nationalists are mourning Soleimani....interesting.

Your heart there is why the allies internment camps in WW2 and WW1 were justifiable actions.
 
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DeepEnigma

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Darn. That i don't like. Get our troops home.

Edit: actually, headline was slightly misleading:

"We have a very extraordinarily expensive air base that's there. It cost billions of dollars to build. We're not leaving unless they pay us back for it," he told reporters.

Ok, then, Iraq paying us a couple billion and us leaving would be fine by me, lol. Out!
Breaks it all down in the Twitter string:

 
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Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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so were the nazis in that case.
Not exactly the same thing in countries that they invaded. Also, the allies were not killing their interned wholesale.

It is one thing to intern people who may hold alligance to a foreign nation within your borders, and another to intern someone from a foreign nation that you invaded to prevent them from rebelling. That requires nuanced thought, but it is different.
 

TeamGhobad

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Not exactly the same thing in countries that they invaded. Also, the allies were not killing their interned wholesale.

It is one thing to intern people who may hold alligance to a foreign nation within your borders, and another to intern someone from a foreign nation that you invaded to prevent them from rebelling. That requires nuanced thought, but it is different.
here is a nuanced thought. the US killed the sole reason ISIS didn't take over Iraq.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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here is a nuanced thought. the US killed the sole reason ISIS didn't take over Iraq.
So? He also organized attacks against Americans. The enemy of your enemy is only your friend when fighting the same enemy. He would be alive today if he didn't keep poking the bear.
 

TeamGhobad

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So? He also organized attacks against Americans. The enemy of your enemy is only your friend when fighting the same enemy. He would be alive today if he didn't keep poking the bear.
there is no bear, you mean the monkey in this case or maybe the orangutan is more appropriate.
 

TeamGhobad

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They were or they weren’t tho
Shia militias work independently from Iran they do as they please. Iran doesn't control them this isn't a hive mind. and all reports say he was there to deescalate the situation. oh and btw during the war against the talban Soleimani was in the war room with American generals telling them out to defeat the taliban through the norther alliance. things soured when bush started making threats against iran after iran helped him get rid of the taliban.
 

Musky_Cheese

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Shia militias work independently from Iran they do as they please. Iran doesn't control them this isn't a hive mind. and all reports say he was there to deescalate the situation. oh and btw during the war against the talban Soleimani was in the war room with American generals telling them out to defeat the taliban through the norther alliance. things soured when bush started making threats against iran after iran helped him get rid of the taliban.
Ok so he was there but was there to try and stop the attack? Just say that.
 

Musky_Cheese

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i don't know, he was definitely not there to escalate things, he was often quoted as saying playing chicken with the americans is a bad tactic.
Just read a NY TIMES article that said he is accused of approving the embassy attack, planning an attack on a Iraqi military base that killed 1 American. Providing materials and bomb making training that resulted in loss of American service members.

Also says he was designated a terrorist long ago by US and Israel.

Hard to figure out what’s what
 

TeamGhobad

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Just read a NY TIMES article that said he is accused of approving the embassy attack, planning an attack on a Iraqi military base that killed 1 American. Providing materials and bomb making training that resulted in loss of American service members.

Also says he was designated a terrorist long ago by US and Israel.

Hard to figure out what’s what
NY Times is not reliable. in this case.
 

TeamGhobad

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USA Today says the same thing. Can you provide a reliable source?
there are non, everybody says what they want to say. cnn interviewed military officials who said the evidence was "razor thin" at best. iraqi PM says he was there to deliver a message to the saudis.
 
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autoduelist

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I thought the US killed people involved with the US Embassy attack?
Yes.

One of the other men killed by the strike:


Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis, the head of the Iranian-backed Popular Mobilization Forces, was also killed in the strikes on an Iraqi base near Baghdad's airport, an Iraqi official confirmed to CBS News.


The move by Washington came after supporters of the Kata’ib Hezbollah militia, founded by the 66-year-old Muhandis, laid siege to the US embassy in Baghdad.
And equally, if not more, important was his involvement in founding and leading the Kata’ib Hezbollah militia, part of the Hashed.

Listed by the US as a terrorist group, Kata’ib Hezbollah was regarded by Washington as a hardline pro-Iranian faction blamed for targeting US troops, with Muhandis himself accused of running “weapons smuggling networks and participat[ing] in bombings of western embassies and attempted assassinations in the region”.
Indeed it was an attack launched by Kata’ib Hezbollah killing a US contractor that triggered the sequence of events that led to US airstrikes on its bases in Iraq and Syria,
This guy was responsible for both the recent US contractor death as well as the embassy attack.
 
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llien

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Darn. That i don't like. Get our troops home.

Edit: actually, headline was slightly misleading:

"We have a very extraordinarily expensive air base that's there. It cost billions of dollars to build. We're not leaving unless they pay us back for it," he told reporters.

Ok, then, Iraq paying us a couple billion and us leaving would be fine by me, lol. Out!
Exactly when did Iraq, an occupied (messed up by a conservative US president with an obviously made up excuse) country back then, ask US to build a military base?
 

cucuchu

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Exactly when did Iraq, an occupied (messed up by a conservative US president with an obviously made up excuse) country back then, ask US to build a military base?
They never did, and we never built one. We built up their already established Air Bases to accommodate our needs.
 

autoduelist

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Exactly when did Iraq, an occupied (messed up by a conservative US president with an obviously made up excuse) country back then, ask US to build a military base?
Bush was not a conservative. He was a neocon, or at least, led by the nose by neocons, many of whom were part of the Project for the New American Century [notably Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, and Paul Wolfowitz, but many others as well]. Neocons were not 'conservatives', they were warmongers from the left that took up faux conservatism, took over the Republican party, and used 9/11 to give us endless wars.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_for_the_New_American_Century

As for whether Iraq asked us to build it, he is talking about the Al Asad base.


Ayn al Asad is an Iraqi Armed Forces and United States armed forces base located in Al Anbar Governorate (also called Anbar province) of western Iraq
Based on my research, this was originally built by the Iraqi's and we later invested billions into it. It is now a shared base.


Since the return of U.S. forces to Iraq in 2014, al Asad has been the site of American-led training efforts for the Iraqi security forces.
So, given it's a shared based and they seem willing to let us train their troops, I would say we had permission to renovate it. Whether they asked for it... well, at this point who knows? I'm sure some elements of the Iraqi government were for it, some against, but they certainly seem to benefit from it and be complicit in its operation. We can split hairs about the occupation, sure, but that doesn't mean it was built without permission.
 
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KINGMOKU

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Civilians are the lifeblood of a war machine. Can't build munitions and feed solders without workers and farmers. Why do you think both the Axis and the Allies targeted civilians in WW2?

Not saying it is a "good" thing, but you can't win a war by acting like civilians are innocent. War isn't a "good" thing. But if the end goal is to win, then you shouldn't pull punches. That's what drags this shit out for decades.
And here is the truth no one really wants to really talk about. If the United States wants to "win" a war, it will win that war, when nessecary measures are taken. You can truly nation build if you are willing to break the back of the nation. The U.S. didn't do it in Vietnam. They held back. The result was a drawn out quagmire we shouldn't have been involved in the first place.

If the U.S. wanted to fundamentally change the completion of the middle east, they could. No one really has the stomach for that these days.

You need to commit absolute atrocities to make that level of change though, and it starts with killing millions of civilians, and breaking their spirit to fight.

It is what it is.
 

NickFire

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This reactions to this story might be the best (and worst) example of TDS yet. On almost any left leaning website, comment section, message board, news show, etc., you are flooded with people who are (allegedly) not sympathizing with a terrorist, (allegedly) of the belief he deserved death, (allegedly) not rooting for harm to the US, and (allegedly) in support of repercussions for killing Americans and attacking American property. But at the exact same time, they are (not allegedly) all bent out of shape because he was taken out with a precision strike without any collateral casualties.

To the extent these people are remotely honest (and don't just hate the US), this is, honest to God, the same exact thing that temper tantrum prone toddlers do. They scream, cry, pout, and shit themselves in blind rages when they cannot have something. Then they get it, and BOOM, time to scream, cry, pout, and shit themselves because they wanted it before and not now, or they didn't want it from him, etc., etc., etc.

Honestly, the squad is the only group of honest brokers in this entire parody of normal life. At least their hatred is consistent, admitted, and unabashed.
 

Mihos

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Darn. That i don't like. Get our troops home.

Edit: actually, headline was slightly misleading:

"We have a very extraordinarily expensive air base that's there. It cost billions of dollars to build. We're not leaving unless they pay us back for it," he told reporters.

Ok, then, Iraq paying us a couple billion and us leaving would be fine by me, lol. Out!
Iraq voting out US troops would be wonderful. Trump can provide the requisite American bluster while he "accidentally" fulfills one of his major campaign promises. :messenger_tears_of_joy:

Might be happening... developing

 
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