adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
If y'all want the Matrix Experience fidelity and effect-work, then yeah, expect 30 FPS games in the coming years.
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Is 30FPS still the future on consoles?
- Thread starter Hobbygaming
- Start date
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Same here brother
_Idea_of_Evil_
Member
I hope there will always be options for higher res or higher performance.
I prefer at least 60fps as standard moving forward, but 30fps is passable if games are good enough. I had a base ps4 for a decade and experienced Witcher 3 and Ghost of Tsushima on there at 30fps (sometimes lower) and still had thoroughly enjoyable experiences. Another example having first played Sekiro on an Xbox One X with extreme input lag - and it was still an incredible experience at 30fps.
I prefer at least 60fps as standard moving forward, but 30fps is passable if games are good enough. I had a base ps4 for a decade and experienced Witcher 3 and Ghost of Tsushima on there at 30fps (sometimes lower) and still had thoroughly enjoyable experiences. Another example having first played Sekiro on an Xbox One X with extreme input lag - and it was still an incredible experience at 30fps.
ShadyAcshuns
Member
This. And to all who say they'll never touch a 30fps game ever again, my condolences, as you will be missing out on some amazing games.
PeteBull
Member
So far best visuals i saw on consoles was matrix demo and indeed, that couldnt even hold 30fps, it actually has dips under 20fps when shit hits the fan, so if u want such fps thats probably the limit xD
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
I understand, it’s certainly really nice. But for me, the difference is not game changing. Now, 120 fps? Sign me up.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
That's what optimization is for, things can be scaled back to hit a more stable 30fps
BootsLoader
Banned
Always have been.
PeteBull
Member
What im saying is, games wont look better from matrix demo, very likely will look on pair/bit worse if we get stable 30fps, and matrix demo- altho ofc looking amazing, isnt worth it the loss of 60fps, at least when it comes to games that require fast reaction times.
But what about in Motion? 30FPS cant keep up with screen movement. That's why you get that horrible stutter and shimmery effect around object when you move the camera fast left and right. It ruins the image quality.
I don't care about better response times.
NightmareFarm
Member
No unless a game came out which pushed the 9th gen consoles to it's very limits(something like the matrix tech demo but as a full game) and becomes a huge commercial and critical success.
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
I'd take the 30fps in exchange for games that look closer to The Matrix demo
stickkidsam
Member
I don't care if it's 30FPS or 60FPS. Just let it be stable.
UltimaKilo
Gold Member
Someday, it will be moot. 60fps will be standard by next-gen and kids will complain about 120, 144, 240, 360, etc. It’s difficult for some to live in the now.
YeulEmeralda
Member
PC gamers have been playing console ports at 60fps for what, 15 years?
Hobbygaming
has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Someday when we hit the graphical ceiling
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
Not to be a dick but Sekiro never had bad input lag on xbox one x since it was averaging anywhere between 40-50 fps. It wasn't stable but it was more responsive than if it had been locked to 30 fps.
I played it on Xb1x a bunch. DF did an analysis too confirming that.
Feel Like I'm On 42
Member
I would accept 30 only for games pushing Matrix quality visuals.
Not sure how happy I'd ultimately be though because 60 feels so much better on an Oled, but I've already been playing games like Forbidden West, Ratchet and Miles Morales at 30fps.
As long as the 30 fps has enough responsiveness and isn't some abomination such as Witcher 3, Control Ultimate, Ghostwire Tokyo or Cyberpunk's fidelity mode.
Which brings up another point. This gen there're been more devs putting out these awful 30 fps modes that introduce terrible input lag and are in general nothing like the 30 fps modes we used to get on console. So that fact is muddling up this whole debate. If developers would stop being so incompetent and/or putting in a half assed effort because they "feel" like 30 fps isn't important so long as they've already included 60 fps, maybe the divide between the 30fps camp and the 60 fps camp wouldn't be as severe.
I've noticed on Gaf lately there seems to be a growing resentment between proponents of each mode. The 30 fps crowd feels like it's the 60 fps crowds "fault" for why games are not delivering next gen experiences. The 60 fps crowd cant understand how anyone can tolerate 30 fps. Once again though I feel this is on today's lazy developers not putting in the same effort to optimize each profile.
If consoles are basically mid level PC's (with the added benefit of being closed systems with well worn api's and accompanying tools), there should be no reason that we can't have both and have both be well optomized. As always we get shoddy optimization as devs take their usual shortcuts resulting in sub par performance. We have jack ass companies like MS who think it's ok to release Redfall at 30 fps despite the game looking the way it does.
I doubt we'll ever get the products we deserve on a consistent basis due to the nature of the industry. My point is even the Matrix could be given a 60 fps mode if they wanted to just like Redfall. CD Project Red could've made the Witcher 3's RT mode a stable 30 fps if they weren't so incompetent. The higher ups at these companies don't give a fuck about the actual games they release though.
Not sure how happy I'd ultimately be though because 60 feels so much better on an Oled, but I've already been playing games like Forbidden West, Ratchet and Miles Morales at 30fps.
As long as the 30 fps has enough responsiveness and isn't some abomination such as Witcher 3, Control Ultimate, Ghostwire Tokyo or Cyberpunk's fidelity mode.
Which brings up another point. This gen there're been more devs putting out these awful 30 fps modes that introduce terrible input lag and are in general nothing like the 30 fps modes we used to get on console. So that fact is muddling up this whole debate. If developers would stop being so incompetent and/or putting in a half assed effort because they "feel" like 30 fps isn't important so long as they've already included 60 fps, maybe the divide between the 30fps camp and the 60 fps camp wouldn't be as severe.
I've noticed on Gaf lately there seems to be a growing resentment between proponents of each mode. The 30 fps crowd feels like it's the 60 fps crowds "fault" for why games are not delivering next gen experiences. The 60 fps crowd cant understand how anyone can tolerate 30 fps. Once again though I feel this is on today's lazy developers not putting in the same effort to optimize each profile.
If consoles are basically mid level PC's (with the added benefit of being closed systems with well worn api's and accompanying tools), there should be no reason that we can't have both and have both be well optomized. As always we get shoddy optimization as devs take their usual shortcuts resulting in sub par performance. We have jack ass companies like MS who think it's ok to release Redfall at 30 fps despite the game looking the way it does.
I doubt we'll ever get the products we deserve on a consistent basis due to the nature of the industry. My point is even the Matrix could be given a 60 fps mode if they wanted to just like Redfall. CD Project Red could've made the Witcher 3's RT mode a stable 30 fps if they weren't so incompetent. The higher ups at these companies don't give a fuck about the actual games they release though.
Last time I thought it was necessary back in 2013 ,Bioshock infinite on 7th gen wasn't great, at that time, I thought this is 30 fps compares to pc 60 fps , it was clear how the 30 fps experience felt , a few years later ,on 9th gen consoles, the experience is totally different, like Max Payne 3 for example, a different 30 fps , a playable version to be specific, it was clearly a hardware issue , not the game itself.
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Zelda design isn't complex, nothing complex about it, heck, Marios' physics doesn't count, not in a million years, Nintendo is smart for keeping this going with broken physics titles while pleasing its consumers.
HazukiSensei
Banned
Well if you're getting 60 fps OP, then the dev is sacrificing some graphical or processing features for that....you guys....do understand that right?
30 fps is the farthest framerate a dev can push the graphical/processing boundaries to while still being playable. I.E. uncharted 2 on ps3. 60 is not the lowest standard for playability it means the console is running the features with so much ease that it has more to spare.
So the tech isnt getting pushed to the limit. So everytime you are getting 60 fps, the gane looks worse than it COULD look, remember that.
30 fps is the farthest framerate a dev can push the graphical/processing boundaries to while still being playable. I.E. uncharted 2 on ps3. 60 is not the lowest standard for playability it means the console is running the features with so much ease that it has more to spare.
So the tech isnt getting pushed to the limit. So everytime you are getting 60 fps, the gane looks worse than it COULD look, remember that.
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HazukiSensei
Banned
Exactly, there are some 15 year old gamers on here that dont grasp this concept.
Like...this thread is fucking casual tbh. Like what gamer dorsnt get that 60 fps means a cost?
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arkhamguy123
Member
Lol “I want my games to look like blockbuster movies but rendering each frame in 16ms like PC’s for 1/3rd the price! No pro consoles either. And the 60fps mode better have crystal clear image quality. Man games take so long to make these days I hate it. And where is the generational leap? This Gen is so disappointing. But 60fps or I won’t buy your game!!!”
So lame. Go build a pc people. I was laughing at all the people in the burning shores OT bitching about pop in knowing they’re going performance mode while I had 0 issues in fidelity. I like 60fps but I’ll trade it for visuals and exciting tech in a second. A fucking second. Like starfield, 1000 planets to explore? Cinematic assets used for gameplay? Yeah give me 30fps.
So lame. Go build a pc people. I was laughing at all the people in the burning shores OT bitching about pop in knowing they’re going performance mode while I had 0 issues in fidelity. I like 60fps but I’ll trade it for visuals and exciting tech in a second. A fucking second. Like starfield, 1000 planets to explore? Cinematic assets used for gameplay? Yeah give me 30fps.
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PeteBull
Member
Personally prefer stable 60 but i fully understand ur pov, and at least u understand consoles are closed mashines, we know whats the peak of graphics(at least roughly) from ps5/xsx/s thx to matrix demo, ofc if/when we get midgen upgrades those will be able to do much more, but cant expect wonders- aka matrix demo quality game in 60fps from our current consoles, many top tier devteams already mage games for them and u can tell none of those big budget AAA games is both 4k and 60, compromises gotta be made, be it in bells and whistles, or framerate or resolution or even in 2 or all 3 aspects together.
NightmareFarm
Member
Not worth it. I'll wait until 2027 for that.
why cant people get this 30 or 60fps is not some mandatory or godly law.. any machine any computer even a super computer can fail to run a game at 60fps... all this depends on what the game is doing... you cant have both... the more the graphics and simuation the lower the frame rates.... that said just use your tv interpolation if you hate 30 fps because 30fps is not going anywhere infact even your 4090's will be running sub 30fps games in 5 years
heres a EUROGAMER interview with black rock studios dev back then in the x360 ps3 era... they talk about frame rates and all.. https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-split-second-tech-interview?page=2
Digital FoundryBearing in mind that some of the most successful racing games - the Forzas, the Gran Turismos, the Burnouts - ship at 60 frames per second, what was the decision making process involved in going for 30?
David Jefferies
The only factor you need to take into account when choosing whether to run at 30FPS or 60FPS is which option will give the consumer the best possible experience. The answer to that question changes on a game-by-game basis.
Regardless of how optimised your engine is you can, by definition, render twice as much detail at 30FPS as at 60FPS. For Split/Second we felt that the consumer experience would be best enhanced by having more detailed environments, more physics, more VFX and explosions, more lighting and more impressive Power Plays.
If done properly, a 30FPS game that stretches the console to its limits is more time-consuming to create than a 60FPS game that stretches the console to its limits. This is because if you're going to draw twice as much on-screen then your artists need to generate more assets at a higher level of detail.
heres a EUROGAMER interview with black rock studios dev back then in the x360 ps3 era... they talk about frame rates and all.. https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-split-second-tech-interview?page=2
Digital FoundryBearing in mind that some of the most successful racing games - the Forzas, the Gran Turismos, the Burnouts - ship at 60 frames per second, what was the decision making process involved in going for 30?
David Jefferies
The only factor you need to take into account when choosing whether to run at 30FPS or 60FPS is which option will give the consumer the best possible experience. The answer to that question changes on a game-by-game basis.
Regardless of how optimised your engine is you can, by definition, render twice as much detail at 30FPS as at 60FPS. For Split/Second we felt that the consumer experience would be best enhanced by having more detailed environments, more physics, more VFX and explosions, more lighting and more impressive Power Plays.
If done properly, a 30FPS game that stretches the console to its limits is more time-consuming to create than a 60FPS game that stretches the console to its limits. This is because if you're going to draw twice as much on-screen then your artists need to generate more assets at a higher level of detail.
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darrylgorn
Member
A game like Itchio shouldn't be 30 fps.
This is why the PC modding community is so strong. You can even get 60 fps in the latest Cyberpunk 2077 Overdrive update with proper modding.
This is why the PC modding community is so strong. You can even get 60 fps in the latest Cyberpunk 2077 Overdrive update with proper modding.
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PeteBull
Member
Its really simple to me, u can argue on ps2 or even ps3 hell with that pathetic https://i.gifer.com/729h.gif cpu on ps4 too- 30fps games could somewhat be excusable but with dimnishing returns already so strong is it really worth it to abandon 60fps ?
We got games like new ratchet, demons souls, spiderman with its expack, forza horizon 5 and even gow ragnarok all supporting 60fps stable(so not target that spends majority in the 40s, but actual stable 60 no matter what).
Remember we arent playing screenshots and dont give in to marketing, often bullshots, smoothness and actual resolution in motion is what we see/feel, not stills or even youtube vids/trailers.
We got games like new ratchet, demons souls, spiderman with its expack, forza horizon 5 and even gow ragnarok all supporting 60fps stable(so not target that spends majority in the 40s, but actual stable 60 no matter what).
Remember we arent playing screenshots and dont give in to marketing, often bullshots, smoothness and actual resolution in motion is what we see/feel, not stills or even youtube vids/trailers.
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Edgelord79
Gold Member
Hard no to not having a 60 fps option on games that it makes sense. Especially games that require a lot of movement. The difference is jarring enough to me to be noticeable. I get a ton of motion sickness and find having smooth controls to be very helpful (I get that a lot of other people are not as sensitive).
Game graphics do not get me hot and bothered though as opposed to gameplay and fluidity of controls so mileage will differ among people.
Game graphics do not get me hot and bothered though as opposed to gameplay and fluidity of controls so mileage will differ among people.
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