Is a lot of shooting often a way to mask the lack of content?

[Earl Cazone]

I noticed that in Uncharted 2. While I enjoyed the game and it's visuals, the shooting was a bit out of hand. The game consisted of Shooting-Climbing-Shooting-Jumping with the occasional puzzle , which honestly were not that great and of course cutscenes.

I bought uncharted under premise of it being an adventure game, so maybe its my own fault, but if you take away the shooting, you would be left with maybe 3 hours of climbing and the one interesting part (in context of its standard copy/paste gameplay) in the game, the tibetan village.

Dont get me wrong, I enjoyed the shooting mechanics in UC2. But I wish there was more actual content, discovery or something.

Many games do have this problem. inFamous for example. Honestly, most games with shooting mechanics do have this problem.

Do you feel the same?

 

[elrechazado]

the things you do in a game are content.

 

[Granger Danger]

The shooting overkill (literally and figuratively) in U2 is sadly what makes me never want to replay the game ever again. By the end Nate has basically committed an epic massacre killing thousands of people, but the real crime is how boring those parts get.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

I don't feel the same because well, i love to know which genre a game's based on before buying it

 

[Grinchy]

There was way too much dribbling in the new NBA game. It was like dribble, pass, dribble, shoot, miss, rebound, dribble....

 

[jchap]

I feel the same way. Uncharted 2 is a grossly overrated game.

 

[schick85]

Personally felt UC2 should have been a point and click adventure game. The dialogue was too good to be in a TPS.

 

[Atruvius]

I didn't mind that UC2 was primarily only shooting people. There's many ways to tackle situations. Do I go guns blazin' or do I sneak. Do I flank these guys or take 'em head on.

 

[NEOPARADIGM]

I feel the same way. Uncharted 2 is a grossly overrated game.

+1

 

[infinityBCRT]

Totally agree. Uncharted could be so much more if it was less shooting and more exploration and puzzles IMO. But I guess people have too much ADD and are too dumb for a game like that.

 

[Bear]

Waves of enemies is probably the single most common padding technique. It's not limited to just shooting.

 

[Sennorin]

I agree, OP, it´s a problem of many, many games. It wouldn´t be so bad if combat was really great, but other than Monster Hunter, I don´t know which game´s combat I´d call great. It´s obvious why it´s done, though: Having a generic room full of enemies takes time. As you say, it fills out the game without requiring actual effort from the developer. The problem: Shooters are the number 1-genre in terms of popularity, so it seems the audience is content with what they get. Unfortunate for "us".

There was way too much dribbling in the new NBA game. It was like dribble, pass, dribble, shoot, miss, rebound, dribble....

Wow are you angry about some having a different opinion.

 

[hamchan]

Uncharted is a shooter. Shooting is the content.

 

[Raonak]

There was way too much dribbling in the new NBA game. It was like dribble, pass, dribble, shoot, miss, rebound, dribble....

this.

It is a 3rd person shooter. :/

 

[Derrick01]

I had the same problem with both Uncharteds and I didn't even like the shooting mechanics, so naturally playing through them is a bit of a chore. I enjoy the cutscenes and the graphics, that's pretty much it.

 

[Earl Cazone]

You guys do realize that uncharted was only an example, yes?

 

[gunbo13]

Try this franchise:

and

You have to piece-wise your video games. Nothing covers everything.

 

[Cptkrush]

hmmm... Dirt 3 seems to be missing quite a bit of content, maybe codemasters should patch in some shooting?

 

[The Technomancer]

hmmm... Dirt 3 seems to be missing quite a bit of content, maybe codemasters should patch in some shooting?

I think what the OP is getting at and what some people are missing isn't that shooting isn't a kind of content, but that there are some games that feel like they are padding things out with content that doesn't match their tone.

 

[Stallion Free]

hmmm... Dirt 3 seems to be missing quite a bit of content, maybe codemasters should patch in some shooting?

I would prefer shooting over the Gymkhana content they did bother to include lol.

I think what the OP is getting at and what some people are missing isn't that shooting isn't a kind of content, but that there are some games that feel like they are padding things out with content that doesn't match their tone.

In that case Uncharted 1 would be a better example because every encounter has 2/3 additional waves of enemies... for no real reason other than to drag out the fight. The bad dude like brought in a cargo ship filled to the brim with them I guess.

 

[Raonak]

In that case Uncharted 1 would be a better example because every encounter has 2/3 additional waves of enemies... for no real reason other than to drag out the fight. The bad dude like brought in a cargo ship filled to the brim with them I guess.

Agreed, Uncharted 1 definetly padded out, I remember areas with 2-3 waves of enemies.

I don't remember this much/at all in uncharted2, most times it was fight, traverse, fight, traverse. multiple waves were all but gone.


One could argue the platforming was just padding since you were just pressing X the whole time, no real skill or anything. :

 

[gunbo13]

I think what the OP is getting at and what some people are missing isn't that shooting isn't a kind of content, but that there are some games that feel like they are padding things out with content that doesn't match their tone.

Yep. But it is unrealistic to expect equal distribution on AAA titles. I can't think of many games that maintain a perfect balance of exploration and fighting elements. There is always a lean because it is damn to much work to handle both. It would arguably be like making 1.5 games.

 

[FINE-LINE]

The LTTP UC2 thread has a very familiar sentiment. Anycase, I agree with OP.

 

[bobbytkc]

That's like saying driving in a racing game is to hide a lack of content.

It is just the nature of the genre.

 

[Cptkrush]

I think what the OP is getting at and what some people are missing isn't that shooting isn't a kind of content, but that there are some games that feel like they are padding things out with content that doesn't match their tone.

I get what he means, but it's kind of silly. I've never found shooting in a game to be a chore, whether it works or not. Hell, I even enjoyed it in L.A. Noire, I'm sure a lot of people consider it padding in that game.

 

[The Technomancer]

Yep. But it is unrealistic to expect equal distribution on AAA titles. I can't think of many games that maintain a perfect balance of exploration and fighting elements. There is always a lean because it is damn to much work to handle both. It would arguably be like making 1.5 games.

Right, and so thats what the OP is saying. Using combat content to extend gametime since it takes more effort to create non-combat content. You say that its unrealistic to expect that of AAA titles, I say that then thats a flaw of the AAA model.

 

[JB1981]

The shooting overkill (literally and figuratively) in U2 is sadly what makes me never want to replay the game ever again. By the end Nate has basically committed an epic massacre killing thousands of people, but the real crime is how boring those parts get.

Rolls eyes. Uncharted is a shooter so that is why you do a lot of shooting. The end.

 

[gunbo13]

You say that its unrealistic to expect that of AAA titles, I say that then thats a flaw of the AAA model.

Which is why I find XBLA/PSN better overall then all the AAA titles combined. I agree with you.

 

[strata8]

That's like saying driving in a racing game is to hide a lack of content.

It is just the nature of the genre.

bobbytkc
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[Bliddo]

I felt that in Red Faction Armageddon. In the last two stages the sheer amount of enemies was just ridicolous.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

There was way too much dribbling in the new NBA game. It was like dribble, pass, dribble, shoot, miss, rebound, dribble....

I know what you mean. They should make NBA games more of an open sandbox. Instead of actually playing the game why not add more content like going to the concession stand or being able to walk around outside in the parking lot.

 

[Y2Kev]

No. But sometimes "defend this position" missions are. I hate those.

 

[Striek]

I'm very curious as to what non-shooting gameplay you think isn't disguising a lack of content. Every platformer has an...excess of platforming. Every RPG has a whoooooole lot of meaningless, repetitive quests. And shooters have...shooting.

In fact, UC2 has a ton of varied environments, platforming and scripted situations (where the shooting gameplay itself is mixed up and often mixed into the platforming), way more than the average shooter.

 

[The Technomancer]

Which is why I find XBLA/PSN better overall then all the AAA titles combined. I agree with you.

Oh goody

 

[Louis Cyphre]

I had the same problem with both Uncharteds and I didn't even like the shooting mechanics, so naturally playing through them is a bit of a chore. I enjoy the cutscenes and the graphics, that's pretty much it.

I really enjoy the series but i do have to agree that the shooting was actually not what i liked about the games. In fact i often felt like it became a chore of getting past waves of enemies when all i really wanted to do was explore more and enjoy the story and characters.

 

[tiff]

I think what the OP is getting at and what some people are missing isn't that shooting isn't a kind of content, but that there are some games that feel like they are padding things out with content that doesn't match their tone.

Yeah. In a certain sense Uncharted isn't lacking in content because shooting is the content, but I think the real point here is that it shouldn't be. Uncharted is clearly supposed to be a (poor) rip-off of Indiana Jones-like adventure films, but I don't remember Indy spending 80% of any movie mowing down Nazis with a machine gun. Uncharted is, though, partly because the average hardcore gamer loves braindead shooting garbage as much as the average anime fan loves moe, and partly because Naughty Dog isn't imaginative enough to make it anything more.

 

[Emily Chu]

This is why I like adventure games like The Longest Journey or Grim Fandango. UC2 looked fantastic but was boring and repetitive.
Hence the base problem for most games this gen.

 

[NBtoaster]

Shooting is content. Though Uncharted's shooting is a big part of the game, and you shouldn't be thinking "oh man another shooting segment " whenever it happens. It's not the same everytime, and stealth, melee and traversal play a big part of the combat. Calling it shooting sells it short.

 

[plc268]

I would prefer shooting over the Gymkhana content they did bother to include lol.

You know... I thought I'd hate the Gymkhana stuff in Dirt 3, but actually it's my favorite mode in Dirt 3. Least favorite mode (by far): Raid.

All it needs is more variety and locations, but I dunno, I found it fun.

 

[water_wendi]

Padding with shooting is easily the laziest way of adding time to a game. Well, besides cutting the walking/run speed.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

I really do dislike how in games like Uncharted you kill about 1000 people before the end of the game.

I mean, Drake is meant to be a likeable guy, but he's a mass killer by the end. It's just goon after goon in a lot of sections.

Uncharted and Uncharted 2 are two of my favourite games this gen, but I wish there was a solution to this. More exploration and puzzles, less shooting, and maybe more of a focus on hand-to-hand combat on the rare occasions that you do encounter an enemy. Make shooting someone a final and desperate resort that you do once, maybe twice, throughout the entire game.

That'd be really fucking cool.

 

[Shai-Tan]

i thought they handled the shooting well in that game in the way you can approach enemies with stealth, platform around, etc but I was disappointed with the lack of other elements in the game. there should be levels that give a sense of exploration and discovery, levels with good platforming that isn't tied to shooting, slower moments with the character development or some aspect of the plot is unfolding.. instead they decided to have like a 30 minute cut scene at the front of the game then jump around in time to random locations. the player wants to also be taken on an adventure not only thrown into various shooting scenarios

I think a major problem this gen with shooters is outside of core shooting everything else except maybe the cut scenes is half baked, little more than a distraction. attention should be given to alternate gameplay: it should be fun in itself to play segments that aren't part of the core gameplay loop. the few places like that in U2 either feel janky or worn down so much by play testing that there is no challenge and it doesn't feel like gameplay.

 

[Anasui Kishibe]

You guys do realize that uncharted was only an example, yes?

pick any game, I still can't see why you've been expecting a shooting game to deliver you more than it should have. Is a shooting game to be bashed because it has shooting elements?
Surely the serie could be much more varied, but action shooting game UC is

 

[BattleMonkey]

In a way yea. Remember old Rainbow six games where you might shoot two whole dudes the whole level? Yet that level took longer to play than most levels in games today where you murder 100 dudes?

 

[we.are.the.armada]

You guys do realize that uncharted was only an example, yes?

The argument that Uncharted 2 would be a roughly 3 hour game if it lacked the shooting/traversal portions makes sense, but the problem with your argument is that:

1. Shooting is the actual content
2. You said, "But I wish there was more actual content, discovery or something."

The point of any shooter is to be a shooter: weapon management, grenade trajectory, ammo management, cover systems, flanking, melee attacks, multiplayer modes, etc. This is the content of these games, so if you buy a shooter thinking that it is an adventure game you may be disappointed.

As for your Infamous example, I felt the same way - I got the game from the PSN hack download debacle, the game was nothing like I thought it would be and didn't care for it much. I see what you're saying man but it fits a broad scope of games and I don't understand why you chose Uncharted 2 over all of the many, better examples of games with ambiguous genres.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Padding with shooting is easily the laziest way of adding time to a game.

Nah, that's making you collect stuff to unlock levels. Now that's padding.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I really do dislike how in games like Uncharted you kill about 1000 people before the end of the game.

I mean, Drake is meant to be a likeable guy, but he's a mass killer by the end. It's just goon after goon in a lot of sections.

Uncharted and Uncharted 2 are two of my favourite games this gen, but I wish there was a solution to this. More exploration and puzzles, less shooting, and maybe more of a focus on hand-to-hand combat on the rare occasions that you do encounter an enemy. Make shooting someone a final and desperate resort that you do once, maybe twice, throughout the entire game.

That'd be really fucking cool.

There's only so much platforming and puzzle solving you can put in a game before the level design becomes overly contrived. At that point, it's a platformer, a la Prince of Persia. Now that's a game (Sands of Time) that would be 100% better with zero combat, and it's all

Spoiler

awful

swordplay.

Mirror's Edge is more the kind of game you guys are looking for. Uncharted is, at it's core, a third person shooter, not an adventure game.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

All work and content play makes Content a content content.

the things you do in a game are content.

No, thats activities.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

There's only so much platforming and puzzle solving you can put in a game before the level design becomes overly contrived. At that point, it's a platformer, a la Prince of Persia. Now that's a game (Sands of Time) that would be 100% better with zero combat, and it's all

Spoiler

awful

swordplay.

Mirror's Edge is more the kind of game you guys are looking for. Uncharted is, at it's core, a third person shooter, not an adventure game.

I don't know, I think ND are good enough game designers that they could have more exploration and puzzles without it seeming too contrived.

I do like that Uncharted is a shooter, but it's just a bit sad that you do spend so much time shooting people on a game so focused on a strong narrative that tries to build up the protagonist as an everyman. It's hard to see Drake as a nice guy when he has so much blood on his hands by the end of the game.

 

[pharmboy044]

Uncharted has some crazy lofty expectations from gamers.

Here is a hint, it's an action adventure game. You are meant to shoot things.