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[Fbh]

I can actually see the new Ps5 being $499.
Remember the Ps5 is now $550 everywhere outside the US, so $499 would make it "cheaper" in almost every market while also serving as a sneaky price increase the US.

If I had to guess Sony has probably seen in their metrics that a lot of people just want the option to buy physical media even if they mostly buy digital anyway. The new Ps5 will offer them a digital only console but with the ease of mind that if they want to go physical in the future the option will still be available to them

 

[Codeblew]

Seems like you’re struggling to understand that one model is not the other.

Where do these people come from

Maybe you are just bad at explaining your point.

 

[Shadowstar39]

Microsoft is producing XSX in sufficient quantities. They're just electing to sell them as bundles at the moment. Forcing sale with a title at $60 additional is a way to earn more on each sale without formally raising prices. It's the same strategy Sony used with bundling last year before they just made the price adjustment.

Sony is most likely going to consolidate to a single PS5 SKU which will save on overall production costs. If the rumors are true then every new PS5 will be digital soon.

What? IF my ps5 breaks and its out of warranty how would I play disk games and ps4 games. Fuck. They are nuts if this is true. Ps5 needs a disk drive.

 

[Blade2.0]

I will never go discless. I rent from my local library. I can usually find a new game 4 weeks after release and can keep it or 3 weeks at a time. Beat Elden Ring just by renting it until i finished.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Maybe you are just bad at explaining your point.

Yeah that’s what it is

 

[ShadowkillXNA]

Maybe they are doing a revision and a starfield Ltd edition console.

Limited edition console to match the limited sales of Starfield due to it being on gamepass and not on playstation.
Love it!

 

[nial]

I think we're going to see a price increase exactly as you've described it. I also think the disk drive add on will be $99. Basically a way for Sony to increase the price of the PS5 to 600 dollars without actively increasing the price.

So basically you think they will sell a smaller, but $100 more expensive PS5, three years after it originally launched?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

So basically you think they will sell a smaller, but $100 more expensive PS5, three years after it originally launched?

That’s correct.

Just as I wasn’t surprised that they raised prices globally except for North America.

Does smaller mean cheaper to you?

Now my theory is dependent on this sku replacing the standard edition PS5, but I don’t think they’re moving off of the 500 dollar price point and I’m not sure that Sony puts out a new major sku that only replaces the existing Digital Edition that they’re barely putting out there.

Unless they are going to put out a slim and slim digital edition which wouldn’t make a ton of sense either.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

That’s correct.

Just as I wasn’t surprised that they raised prices globally except for North America.

Does smaller mean cheaper to you?

Now my theory is dependent on this sku replacing the standard edition PS5, but I don’t think they’re moving off of the 500 dollar price point and I’m not sure that Sony puts out a new major sku that only replaces the existing Digital Edition that they’re barely putting out there.

Unless they are going to put out a slim and slim digital edition which wouldn’t make a ton of sense either.

When it comes to consoles, YES. Smaller, means cheaper. Three years ago, making a PS5 with a disc drive cost Sony around $450. Right now, going to a smaller node, even if the wafer cost is more expensive, the amount of chips they are getting from the same sized wafer means they still come out with cheaper chips. The price of RAM, nand flash...etc, are all lower now. the PSU (which gets smaller too because of the APU is putting less power), the entire cooling solution, the case...even the packaging and shipping.... All ends up costing less.

Everything I just listed above, will amount to more than over $100 in savings. This means that this new PS5 SKU will cost Sony under $350 to make. Did you get that? the only PS5 SKU that will be on the market starting this year, will cost less than $350 to make. You talk about this $500 like its some sort of internal target that they would stick on regardless of what kinda savings they have made elsewhere. But that is just not how consoles work.

And there is NO way they are going to end up in a situation, where the cost of this new PS5 and disc drive ends up closing more than the pair currently costs. To even suggest something like that is borderline delusional.

Try and understand this, the absolute best thing for Sony would be to have just ONE SKU on the market. There is not going to be a DESKU or a disc SKU. Just one SKU.One PS5. That PS5 would cost no more than $399, and technically is replacing the digital SKU. They will be already making a profit on selling that SKU or at worst, breaking even. It makes absolutely no sense for sony to make a cheaper SKU that you can buy a separate disc drive add-on for, and still be making the more expensive bulkier PS5 that comes with a disc drive. No sense whatsoever.

Somehow, you seem to think that Sony would just tack-on $150 to the BOM of the new SKU and sell for $500...because they can..and even charge another $100 for the disc drive making a PS5+disc drive $600 all in.

 

[Rendered Tangent]

I got a digital edition because it was all I could find a couple of months after release...and at the time it was very lucky to find one at all with the way scalpers had ruined the experience for so many.

I tend to buy most stuff digitally anyway, so it wasn't much of a hardship anyway.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

When it comes to consoles, YES. Smaller, means cheaper. Three years ago, making a PS5 with a disc drive cost Sony around $450. Right now, going to a smaller node, even if the wafer cost is more expensive, the amount of chips they are getting from the same sized wafer means they still come out with cheaper chips. The price of RAM, nand flash...etc, are all lower now. the PSU (which gets smaller too because of the APU is putting less power), the entire cooling solution, the case...even the packaging and shipping.... All ends up costing less.

Everything I just listed above, will amount to more than over $100 in savings. This means that this new PS5 SKU will cost Sony under $350 to make. Did you get that? the only PS5 SKU that will be on the market starting this year, will cost less than $350 to make. You talk about this $500 like its some sort of internal target that they would stick on regardless of what kinda savings they have made elsewhere. But that is just not how consoles work.

And there is NO way they are going to end up in a situation, where the cost of this new PS5 and disc drive ends up closing more than the pair currently costs. To even suggest something like that is borderline delusional.

Try and understand this, the absolute best thing for Sony would be to have just ONE SKU on the market. There is not going to be a DESKU or a disc SKU. Just one SKU.One PS5. That PS5 would cost no more than $399, and technically is replacing the digital SKU. They will be already making a profit on selling that SKU or at worst, breaking even. It makes absolutely no sense for sony to make a cheaper SKU that you can buy a separate disc drive add-on for, and still be making the more expensive bulkier PS5 that comes with a disc drive. No sense whatsoever.

Somehow, you seem to think that Sony would just tack-on $150 to the BOM of the new SKU and sell for $500...because they can..and even charge another $100 for the disc drive making a PS5+disc drive $600 all in.

The problem starts with your mistaken understanding of the cost of production. Sony INTENDED to make a profit on the PS5 standard early, but supply chain restraints changed that. As of now, we don't even know if they're making a profit on the standard edition. Reference their financial reports where they mention that they are still losing money on hardware.

But regardless of how much the PS5 actually costs them to make, doesn't solely determine the cost they're willing to sell it. You have no idea what their internal expectations are for operating income surrounding hardware.

What we do know is that they are expecting an 8% increase in operating income in FY23 compared to FY22 driven largely by the profitability of hardware, despite only having 5-6 months during the fiscal year to generate that increased income.

 

[Loomy]

Seems like you’re struggling to understand that one model is not the other.

Where do these people come from

Think about this though. You’re saying the digital edition with no disc drive is going to be discontinued, and in its place Sony will sell a version of the console with no disc drive?

 

[Die Namek Ability]

I think XSX could compete if Starfall is a banger they discontinue the XSS and launch an all digital XSX. Then reduce the cost.

XsX $400
XsX DE $300

If they were serious about competing this is what they would do.

 

[zomboden]

I think XSX could compete if Starfall is a banger they discontinue the XSS and launch an all digital XSX. Then reduce the cost.

XsX $400
XsX DE $300

If they were serious about competing this is what they would do.

And spit in the face of the probably ~10+ Million Series S owners currently? Yeah, I'm sure they will do that. Series S is here to stay. In 2027 games will be launching on Series S.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

The problem starts with your mistaken understanding of the cost of production. Sony INTENDED to make a profit on the PS5 standard early, but supply chain restraints changed that. As of now, we don't even know if they're making a profit on the standard edition. Reference their financial reports where they mention that they are still losing money on hardware.

And I am just confused now, unless that is your intention. With the boded part here. What do you mean we don't know if they are making a profit on the standard edition? When since Aug 2021 this has been common knowledge that Sony was making a profit on the standard $500 PS5.

And my mistaken understanding of the cost of production????? smh, ok, this is probably gonna be my last response to you lol.

But regardless of how much the PS5 actually costs them to make, doesn't solely determine the cost they're willing to sell it. You have no idea what their internal expectations are for operating income surrounding hardware.

And you do?

What we do know is that they are expecting an 8% increase in operating income in FY23 compared to FY22 driven largely by the profitability of hardware, despite only having 5-6 months during the fiscal year to generate that increased income.

Second time you are saying this. Why are you saying this? FY23 has already begun. Why are you somehow conveniently going off the assumption that everything they sell now in the first 2 quarters of this FY is somehow at a loss? Why are you so certain that they are not already making money right now?

But even more interesting... that 8% increase in OI that they are forecasting to be aided by increasing hardware profit and sales from peripheral devices.... it hasn't occurred to you that shipping 30%+ more consoles in FY23 would have a say in that right? 19M vs 25M. Or how many more controllers they will also sell, or how many more disc attachments they would sell? Or having a whole FY of sales for PSVR2.... like, you do realize that hardware is not just the console right?

Having said that, we should now just wait and see.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Think about this though. You’re saying the digital edition with no disc drive is going to be discontinued, and in its place Sony will sell a version of the console with no disc drive?

Think about this

Sony discontinued a model of the vita and get this replaced it with another model that was also a vita.

How is this a a difficult concept for you

 

[Die Namek Ability]

And spit in the face of the probably ~10+ Million Series S owners currently? Yeah, I'm sure they will do that. Series S is here to stay. In 2027 games will be launching on Series S.

MS created this situation. Im just proposeing a a way ahead.

 

[zomboden]

MS created this situation. Im just proposeing a a way ahead.

Until Microsoft changes policy all games have to ship on S and X. Games will look bad. They will be low resolution, low graphics, at ~30 fps but they will ship on S too.

To change their policy when there’s more S owners then X wouldn’t make sense. They could force S owners to play games on cloud, I guess.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

And I am just confused now, unless that is your intention. With the boded part here. What do you mean we don't know if they are making a profit on the standard edition? When since Aug 2021 this has been common knowledge that Sony was making a profit on the standard $500 PS5.

And my mistaken understanding of the cost of production????? smh, ok, this is probably gonna be my last response to you lol.

And you do?

Second time you are saying this. Why are you saying this? FY23 has already begun. Why are you somehow conveniently going off the assumption that everything they sell now in the first 2 quarters of this FY is somehow at a loss? Why are you so certain that they are not already making money right now?

But even more interesting... that 8% increase in OI that they are forecasting to be aided by increasing hardware profit and sales from peripheral devices.... it hasn't occurred to you that shipping 30%+ more consoles in FY23 would have a say in that right? 19M vs 25M. Or how many more controllers they will also sell, or how many more disc attachments they would sell? Or having a whole FY of sales for PSVR2.... like, you do realize that hardware is not just the console right?

Having said that, we should now just wait and see.

They literally put out financial reports stating that the hardware isn't profitable. It seems like you hear one thing and despite new information, you don't re-assess.

FY23 has already started and there is no reason to think that hardware has already gotten significantly cheaper than FY22 before the release of the new sku. Please actually read their financial statements rather than drubbing up the same statements over and over.

Here is the actual breakdown

OI: 20 bln yen (8%) increase / Adjusted OIBDA: 28 bln yen (8%) increase ·(+) Improvement in hardware profitability ·(+) Positive impact of foreign exchange rates reflecting the high ratio of U.S. dollar-denominated costs ·(+) Impact of increase in sales of peripheral devices ·(ー) Increase in costs*2 ·(ー) Impact of decrease in sales of first-party titles

If you think that they're expecting an 8 percent increase specifically because of PSVR2 which sales are almost certainly limited, you're going out of your way to ignore the top line reason for their 8 percent increase in operating income despite a decrease expected due to increased costs and decreased software sales (1st party titles during the fiscal year.

The offset means they're expecting MORE than an 8% increase in hardware profitability.

Agreed, we'll wait and see, but I think this paints a fairly clear picture that they're expecting significant increases in operating income due to hardware profitability.

And this was a specific call out for FY22 that you've ignored - ·(+) Decrease in losses from hardware, not profit for hardware, but a decrease in losses for hardware.

 

[TheThreadsThatBindUs]

The new PS5 Slim will have a removable disc drive. So that will be the reason the PS5 DE will be discontinued... not any notion that gamers don't need discs anymore.

Games are still being purchased on discs. Go familiarize yourself with the major publisher sales data to see this. It's not some hidden mystery.

Sony will not give up those consumers in developing nations who still want disc-based consoles and games.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

With how few Xbox Series X units are available for purchase

??? It's not some unicorn; Series X has been readily available in parts of Europe for months. Increasingly available in the UK and even parts of the US. It's not really a supply issue anymore, or at least not like it was in 2021.

 

[Mr.Phoenix]

FY23 has already started and there is no reason to think that hardware has already gotten significantly cheaper than FY22 before the release of the new sku. Please actually read their financial statements rather than drubbing up the same statements over and over.

Sigh... HARDWARE in NOT only PS5!!!!!!

If you think that they're expecting an 8 percent increase specifically because of PSVR2 which sales are almost certainly limited, you're going out of your way to ignore the top line reason for their 8 percent increase in operating income despite a decrease expected due to increased costs and decreased software sales (1st party titles during the fiscal year.

No, I think they are expecting an 8% increase due to

• 30% more PS5s shipped than FY22
• one whole FY of the limited PSVR2 sales.
• Increased sales of peripherals... eg. controllers, disc drive add-on...etc

And this was a specific call out for FY22 that you've ignored - ·(+) Decrease in losses from hardware, not profit for hardware, but a decrease in losses for hardware.

Yes, I ignored it, because I notice you have no idea what that actually means. Was actually doing you a favor. But fine...

That is the specific chart you are talking about right? Now let me teyou what it actually means

Do you see the part FY2022 OI? Its saying they made 28% less vs the year before that. They are also telling you the things that made them lose (the stuff that has a minus sign) and the things that made them gain (the stuff that has a plus sign). Why they lost was due to acquisitions, game development, and reduction in third-party sales. however, what actually did them some good they lost less in hardware sales compared to the previous year... and had good first-party sales.

And this is not just PS5. This is the entire PS division.

You still don't get it? Or should I also explain their projections for 2023?

 

[Crayon]

This is insane.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The new PS5 Slim will have a removable disc drive. So that will be the reason the PS5 DE will be discontinued... not any notion that gamers don't need discs anymore.

Games are still being purchased on discs. Go familiarize yourself with the major publisher sales data to see this. It's not some hidden mystery.

Sony will not give up those consumers in developing nations who still want disc-based consoles and games.

jesus christ...

Sigh... HARDWARE in NOT only PS5!!!!!!

No, I think they are expecting an 8% increase due to

• 30% more PS5s shipped than FY22
• one whole FY of the limited PSVR2 sales.
• Increased sales of peripherals... eg. controllers, disc drive add-on...etc

Yes, I ignored it, because I notice you have no idea what that actually means. Was actually doing you a favor. But fine...

That is the specific chart you are talking about right? Now let me teyou what it actually means

Do you see the part FY2022 OI? Its saying they made 28% less vs the year before that. They are also telling you the things that made them lose (the stuff that has a minus sign) and the things that made them gain (the stuff that has a plus sign). Why they lost was due to acquisitions, game development, and reduction in third-party sales. however, what actually did them some good they lost less in hardware sales compared to the previous year... and had good first-party sales.

And this is not just PS5. This is the entire PS division.

You still don't get it? Or should I also explain their projections for 2023?

Lol you still aren't getting it. If hardware was profitable, it wouldn't cite a decrease in hardware losses. It would cite that as a positive as they do in the forecast. It simply means that both FY22 and FY21 hardware cost them more than it earned them, which is the point I've been trying to make to you, who somehow thinks that they've been profitable on hardware since 2021.

There is no hardware that SIE sells that would move the needle other than PS5s.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

For additional context for anyone who else doesn't know how to read financial statements. Here is additional detail from FY21

 

[Duchess]

Does anyone know what the fuck is going on in this thread?

 

[PeteBull]

Non techsavy ppl trying to workout tech stuff, basically this

 

[reksveks]

I would have thought they (xbox) would gone down the more iterative release schedule but not 100% sure. I can see a third sku easily.

 

[Heisenberg007]

While Phil hinted that there will be more iterative releases of the Xbox hardware going forward, at this point ... who is even going to buy the next Xbox?

 

[zomboden]

While Phil hinted that there will be more iterative releases of the Xbox hardware going forward, at this point ... who is even going to buy the next Xbox?

I will always have the newest Xbox. As long as they make games and consoles I will be there. Xbox is my main system since I was a kid.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

While Phil hinted that there will be more iterative releases of the Xbox hardware going forward, at this point ... who is even going to buy the next Xbox?

I will always have the newest Xbox. As long as they make games and consoles I will be there. Xbox is my main system since I was a kid.

Their real focus is almost certainly on an Xbox Streaming Stick that they can sell for like 100 dollars and it comes with a controller. That's the future of Xbox. This is probably their last physical console.

 

[zomboden]

Their real focus is almost certainly on an Xbox Streaming Stick that they can sell for like 100 dollars and it comes with a controller. That's the future of Xbox. This is probably their last physical console.

In my experience the quality of xCloud is really bad. Worse than 720p native levels of bad. Nobody will buy their streaming stick and a decision like that would kill Xbox officially.

For them to do cloud only they would have to:

1. Get at least 4k60 and or 4k/120 streaming working and power it. (current series X blades wont cut it. need something custom)
2. Add the ability to play any game you buy on the cloud. Currently you can only play game pass games.
3. Expand servers so that theres more and more spread out. Somewhere like where I live has a great connection to Geforce Now but absolutely terrible connection to xCloud.
4. Give up completely on markets that might have strict data caps/poor internet. (Good part of USA included).

It’s not happening. They will keep making consoles.

Don’t get me wrong, cloud is the future. But not the near future. Like 20-25 years from now, maybe. Geforce Now is currently the most impressive but it has its own set of issues that keep it niche still.

 

[gaming_again]

Their real focus is almost certainly on an Xbox Streaming Stick that they can sell for like 100 dollars and it comes with a controller. That's the future of Xbox. This is probably their last physical console.

Only a handful of countries have the infrastructure to support this. And even then, sections of said countries wouldn't be able to support this.

 

[Belthazar]

the disk drive free PS5 standard that will certainly be a slim model. The difference is that won't be priced at $400 dollars, it'll be full-priced like the PS5 Standard.

That's very delusional, it'll just cost $400 with the disc drive being another $100.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

In my experience the quality of xCloud is really bad. Worse than 720p native levels of bad. Nobody will buy their streaming stick and a decision like that would kill Xbox officially.

For them to do cloud only they would have to:

1. Get at least 4k60 and or 4k/120 streaming working and power it. (current series X blades wont cut it. need something custom)
2. Add the ability to play any game you buy on the cloud. Currently you can only play game pass games.
3. Expand servers so that theres more and more spread out. Somewhere like where I live had a great connection to Geforce Now but absolutely terrible connection to xCloud.
4. Give up completely on markets that might have strict data caps/poor internet. (Good part of USA included).

It’s not happening. They will keep making consoles.

Don’t get me wrong, cloud is the future. But not the near future. Like 20-25 years from now, maybe. Geforce Now is currently the most impressive but it has its own set of issues that keep it niche still.

I'm not saying it'll happen tomorrow or that they'll stop selling Xboxes right now, but it's clear they're more interested in selling XSS than XSX and I don't think that will change. I think more and more they're going to get out of the AAA space except for a handful of titles.

But there won't be another generation of Xbox home consoles.

Once they get xCloud to 1080p, they'll probably launch their dongle. They'll then launch a separate tiered service for 4K.

They're going to shift away from B2P altogether.

But maybe they'll put out something like the nvidia shield with onboard storage for B2P in the interim, but they're all in on XSS for now.

 

[zomboden]

I'm not saying it'll happen tomorrow or that they'll stop selling Xboxes right now, but it's clear they're more interested in selling XSS than XSX and I don't think that will change. I think more and more they're going to get out of the AAA space except for a handful of titles.

But there won't be another generation of Xbox home consoles.

Once they get xCloud to 1080p, they'll probably launch their dongle. They'll then launch a separate tiered service for 4K.

They're going to shift away from B2P altogether.

But maybe they'll put out something like the nvidia shield with onboard storage for B2P in the interim, but they're all in on XSS for now.

Supporting Series S doesn't mean dropping support for AAA games. The Series X/S dev kit is one unit and you build for the X and then scale down to the S. Any game that can run on X/PS5 can run on S with compromises. The technology is similar.

Now, I don't know what Microsoft's move is if Sony releases PS5 Pro. Do they release a beefier Xbox model to go along with S and X? Or do they just not follow and keep S and X until PS6 gen around 2027? If anything I can see it like this

Example game releases in 2025
Runs at 30 fps at a low internal resolution upscaled to 1080, low/medium settings on Series S
Runs at 30 fps at a medium internal resolution, upscaled to 4k medium/high settings on Series X
Runs at 60 fps at a high internal resolution, upscaled to 4k, medium(mostly high) settings on Series XX

Look at Hogwarts Legacy PS4 port for example. They took time to optimize the game and on that lower powered cpu, weak in terms of modern power gpu. In the unlocked mode in light/no action scenes it can manage a full 60 fps...! It's definitely possible to squeeze power out of weaker systems like the Series S. An almost 10 year old console is able to play a new title at a sometimes full 60 fps experience and a mostly locked 30 fps in other cases. Series S will have no issues for years to come.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Supporting Series S doesn't mean dropping support for AAA games. The Series X/S dev kit is one unit and you build for the X and then scale down to the S. Any game that can run on X/PS5 can run on S with compromises. The technology is similar.

Now, I don't know what Microsoft's move is if Sony releases PS5 Pro. Do they release a beefier Xbox model to go along with S and X? Or do they just not follow and keep S and X until PS6 gen around 2027? If anything I can see it like this

Example game releases in 2025
Runs at 30 fps at a low internal resolution upscaled to 1080, low/medium settings on Series S
Runs at 30 fps at a medium internal resolution, upscaled to 4k medium/high settings on Series X
Runs at 60 fps at a high internal resolution, upscaled to 4k, medium(mostly high) settings on Series XX

Look at Hogwarts Legacy PS4 port for example. They took time to optimize the game and on that lower powered cpu, weak in terms of modern power gpu. In the unlocked mode in light/no action scenes it can manage a full 60 fps...! It's definitely possible to squeeze power out of weaker systems like the Series S. An almost 10 year old console is able to play a new title at a sometimes full 60 fps experience and a mostly locked 30 fps in other cases. Series S will have no issues for years to come.

The focus on Series S over Series X is about not pushing the budgets on games because you're largely just filling out the catalog for GamePass.

You're not spending 200 million dollars on a game that will have limited B2P sales and won't drastically change the landscape of your subscription service.

I don't think Microsoft releases a X pro and if they do it will be scarcely supported.

I really don't think we see another Xbox home console after this. I think Microsoft will pivot as Nintendo has pivoted. Lean into their assumed strengths around cloud and subscription and see where they can go from there. Their focus isn't on the console first. It's GamePass first.

They took the time to optimize Hogwarts because PS4 has a massive consumer base and people are only just now getting to buy PS5s easily.

There were games that didn't release for N64 because it didn't support disc storage or didnt release on Xbox 360 because it didn't have bluray. I think we're going to see teams balk at making games for XSS and decide not to make an xbox version because the userbase isn't because enough to warrant it, particularly with B2P cannibalization.

 

[zomboden]

The focus on Series S over Series X is about not pushing the budgets on games because you're largely just filling out the catalog for GamePass.

You're not spending 200 million dollars on a game that will have limited B2P sales and won't drastically change the landscape of your subscription service.

I don't think Microsoft releases a X pro and if they do it will be scarcely supported.

I really don't think we see another Xbox home console after this. I think Microsoft will pivot as Nintendo has pivoted. Lean into their assumed strengths around cloud and subscription and see where they can go from there. Their focus isn't on the console first. It's GamePass first.

They took the time to optimize Hogwarts because PS4 has a massive consumer base and people are only just now getting to buy PS5s easily.

There were games that didn't release for N64 because it didn't support disc storage or didnt release on Xbox 360 because it didn't have bluray. I think we're going to see teams balk at making games for XSS and decide not to make an xbox version because the userbase isn't because enough to warrant it, particularly with B2P cannibalization.

We'll see. I don't think things are nearly as bad for Xbox as you make them out to be. It's easy to get caught up in Xbox doom and gloom especially with the L's they have been taking this past year and a half, myself included have been doubting Xbox recently. But Series is still outpacing Xbox One and game's are still being ported to Xbox One despite I would assume sales on that platform abysmal now.

Even though PS4 had double and triple Xbox One's sales, it still got third party support. Series S is scalable and I don't think many developers will have issues making it work. And if they do have issues Microsoft might be able to help them in order to get the game shipped on Xbox. The only example I can think of is Baldurs gate 3 where the rumor was they couldn't get split screen to work on S or something and decided not to put the game on Xbox for now.

And I don't think many people are buying games on PS4 anymore. If you look at the sales charts most people that are out here buying brand new games are already in the new console ecosystems. God of War Ragnarok was 82% PS5 18% PS4. Hogwarts is an excellent port and a great example of squeezing every bit of power out of an old system.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

We'll see. I don't think things are nearly as bad for Xbox as you make them out to be. It's easy to get caught up in Xbox doom and gloom especially with the L's they have been taking this past year and a half, myself included have been doubting Xbox recently. But Series is still outpacing Xbox One and game's are still being ported to Xbox One despite I would assume sales on that platform abysmal now.

Even though PS4 had double and triple Xbox One sales, it still got third party support. Series S is scalable and I don't think many developers will have issues making it work. And if they do have issues Microsoft might be able to help them in order to get the game shipped on Xbox. The only example I can think of is Baldurs gate 3 where the rumor was they couldn't get split screen to work on S or something and decided not to put the game on Xbox for now.

And I don't think many people are buying games on PS4 anymore. If you look at the sales charts most people that are out here buying brand new games are already in the new console ecosystems. God of War Ragnarok was 82% PS5 18% PS4.

What you're not factoring in is how much GamePass has over the years conditioned Xbox gamers not to buy games. Game sells are diminishing.

At some point you have to ask yourself, is the time spent on a port on Xbox better spent on polish a PS5 version, on making sure the PC version plays better. Games are getting more and more expensive, so time and resources are key.

Microsoft didn't just find a basket full of Ls they've been building up towards this for the last 10 years.

Xbox One is being skipped multiple times on game ports.

PS4 game sales aren't great but they're worthwhile of a port. PS4 game sales are probably better than XSX/S software sales.

This isn't the end all be all, but do you see any XSX/S games here? Where is Redfall?

Amazon Best Sellers: Best Video Games

View the best video games in Amazon Best Sellers. Browse the 100 top video games to identify the most popular games. Get useful information on what other people are buying.

www.amazon.com

Hogwarts PS4 is 22 on the list.

Part of it is because you can't buy physical games on XSS and that is the primary console for Xbox right now. It's why you see the store cards for Xbox so high up on this list and physical software nowhere to be found.

I wish we got more detailed breakdowns of sales by console, but those days are behind us. What we do see is detailed information from the UK where it should favor Xbox a bit, but it just doesn't.

 

[zomboden]

What you're not factoring in is how much GamePass has over the years conditioned Xbox gamers not to buy games. Game sells are diminishing.

At some point you have to ask yourself, is the time spent on a port on Xbox better spent on polish a PS5 version, on making sure the PC version plays better. Games are getting more and more expensive, so time and resources are key.

Microsoft didn't just find a basket full of Ls they've been building up towards this for the last 10 years.

Xbox One is being skipped multiple times on game ports.

PS4 game sales aren't great but they're worthwhile of a port. PS4 game sales are probably better than XSX/S software sales.

This isn't the end all be all, but do you see any XSX/S games here? Where is Redfall?

Amazon Best Sellers: Best Video Games

View the best video games in Amazon Best Sellers. Browse the 100 top video games to identify the most popular games. Get useful information on what other people are buying.

www.amazon.com

Hogwarts PS4 is 22 on the list.

Part of it is because you can't buy physical games on XSS and that is the primary console for Xbox right now. It's why you see the store cards for Xbox so high up on this list and physical software nowhere to be found.

I wish we got more detailed breakdowns of sales by console, but those days are behind us. What we do see is detailed information from the UK where it should favor Xbox a bit, but it just doesn't.

You are completely right about it conditioning you. But honestly, isn't that Microsoft's plan? To buy up studios to fuel game pass?

I make above minimum wage, but I make less than $50,000 a year. And the idea of paying $70+tax for a new game that is like a 12 hour experience that I could potentially beat in one sitting makes me sick. Imagine if I had spent $70 on Redfall? I'm currently finishing up some achievements on the game. It was OK. Not a good game, But like that one article said "Good enough for game pass." If I spent over $15 or $20 on it I would have been physically ill.

Game Pass's value is part of the reason that $70 games look like a bad deal. New game comes out? Just play whats on game pass until it goes on sale for half off.

Game pass will shake up the video game industry for better or worse. Sony is selling a lot of consoles but how many people are gonna sit there and buy $70 games? We'll see. Especially with a potential economic recession coming. My guess is this is part of the reason why we are seeing Sony shift towards GAAS and F2P games. Similar to mobile market.

Huge PS5 population. Here is Horizon Online. Free. Now buy our micro transactions. Here is God of War, but you have to buy quests in the game for $2.99 each.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You are completely right about it conditioning you. But honestly, isn't that Microsoft's plan? To buy up studios to fuel game pass?

I make above minimum wage, but I make less than $50,000 a year. And the idea of paying $70+tax for a new game that is like a 12 hour experience that I could potentially beat in one sitting makes me sick. Imagine if I had spent $70 on Redfall? I'm currently finishing up some achievements on the game. It was OK. Not a good game, But like that one article said "Good enough for game pass." If I spent over $15 or $20 on it I would have been physically ill.

Game Pass's value is part of the reason that $70 games look like a bad deal. New game comes out? Just play whats on game pass until it goes on sale for half off.

Game pass will shake up the video game industry for better or worse. Sony is selling a lot of consoles but how many people are gonna sit there and buy $70 games? We'll see. Especially with a potential economic recession coming. My guess is this is part of the reason why we are seeing Sony shift towards GAAS and F2P games. Similar to mobile market.

Huge PS5 population. Here is Horizon Online. Free. Now buy our micro transactions. Here is God of War, but you have to buy quests in the game for $2.99 each.

They've hit a snag in their plans. If the largest studios they can purchase are at the levels of Bethesda, they won't get enough content into GamePass in time. They're in a race against time. This is why it's a big deal that they keep missing their growth goals. Fans will tell you, "Microsoft is just being overzealous with their goals" but the reality is these goals are based off of a vision to reach profitability and sustainability in GamePass and they're falling short. Xbox fans have CONVINCED themselves that Microsoft would never pull out of gaming, especially after spending billions on Bethesda forgetting that they bought Nokia for 7.2 billion in 2014 money and QUICKLY got out of mobile.

My advice to you, don't buy games at 70 dollars, wait for price drops and sales. Do what's right for you. The thing with GamePass is, it's not going to stay at 15 or 20 dollars, it's going to raise as much as Microsoft needs to cover the cost, especially if growth isn't there.

Microsoft is subsidizing GamePass for now, but they won't always. My advice here, enjoy it while you can. Same when it could be had for a dollar. That was Microsoft saying no mas. Price increases are next.

GamePass is on a road to failure unless Microsoft can get xCloud to work REALLY well. In recessions, people look to cancel subscription services.

Sony is shifting to GaaS not because of recessions, but because MTX are where the money is at. You get money year-round rather than mostly in the last 3 months of the year. Sony is trying to build their business out to be more efficient and effective, which will allow it to do vertical and horizontal mergers.

 

[alphachino]

PS5 DE: The Greatest Deal in Gaming

 

[Three]

Not a good game, But like that one article said "Good enough for game pass." If I spent over $15 or $20 on it I would have been physically ill.

This is around what some people spend on gamepass for the month though and because it's a rental service they continue paying month in month out to maintain access to previous games too, even in months where big games aren't releasing. There is no excuse really for having poor releases, especially when your releases are so scarce to begin with.

Game pass will shake up the video game industry for better or worse. Sony is selling a lot of consoles but how many people are gonna sit there and buy $70 games? We'll see. Especially with a potential economic recession coming. My guess is this is part of the reason why we are seeing Sony shift towards GAAS and F2P games. Similar to mobile market.

Honestly think about it, since the PS5 release Miles Morales, Demon's Souls, Returnal, Horizon Forbidden West, Death Stranding DC, the PS5 gen games, all made it to PS+ Extra/Premium and that's cheaper than gamepass. You should be asking for better gamepass games, not saying it's "good enough for gamepass".

Of course the gamepass/subscription model that you're advocating pushes towards GaaS and lower budget single player games. This is why the big tentpole releases have gone towards that and mtx for MS and likely will for Sony if they put all their eggs in the subscription basket instead of selling games. That's why there is pushback to these services and people who think that buying games shouldn't be replaced.

 

[zomboden]

They've hit a snag in their plans. If the largest studios they can purchase are at the levels of Bethesda, they won't get enough content into GamePass in time. They're in a race against time. This is why it's a big deal that they keep missing their growth goals. Fans will tell you, "Microsoft is just being overzealous with their goals" but the reality is these goals are based off of a vision to reach profitability and sustainability in GamePass and they're falling short. Xbox fans have CONVINCED themselves that Microsoft would never pull out of gaming, especially after spending billions on Bethesda forgetting that they bought Nokia for 7.2 billion in 2014 money and QUICKLY got out of mobile.

My advice to you, don't buy games at 70 dollars, wait for price drops and sales. Do what's right for you. The thing with GamePass is, it's not going to stay at 15 or 20 dollars, it's going to raise as much as Microsoft needs to cover the cost, especially if growth isn't there.

Microsoft is subsidizing GamePass for now, but they won't always. My advice here, enjoy it while you can. Same when it could be had for a dollar. That was Microsoft saying no mas. Price increases are next.

GamePass is on a road to failure unless Microsoft can get xCloud to work REALLY well. In recessions, people look to cancel subscription services.

Sony is shifting to GaaS not because of recessions, but because MTX are where the money is at. You get money year-round rather than mostly in the last 3 months of the year. Sony is trying to build their business out to be more efficient and effective, which will allow it to do vertical and horizontal mergers.

I'll take the "have faith and wait and see what happens" approach.

I don't think Microsoft is going to kill Xbox. It makes a ton of money for them. Phil said the game's pipeline is finally looking pretty good after Starfield in his XCast interview. I know people always post how Phil is optimistic and then the year sucks and it happens over and over. But like I said I have faith. Game pass lets me play day one games without FOMO and I will gladly give them my subscription money/Microsoft rewards points or whatever I use every month for that privilege.

They're not going to roll over and die. They didn't try to buy a $70 billion dollar publisher just to give up. It was a road block and I had knee jerk reactions too but I've come to my senses and they will reinvest the money and purchase other studios/smaller publishers. It was an accelerate for their grand scheme like Phil said, but not the be and and end all.

Unless I can guarantee at least $1 per hour of entertainment out of a game I won't pay $70. A game like Diablo 4 that I know I will play for 200+ hours is a guaranteed buy. Ultimate edition day one. $100 easy. A $70 AAA single player game that is like 10 hours long... No shot.