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Is Being Anti-War a Left Wing Position?

-Minsc-

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Nov 14, 2009
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Lots of interesting information in this thread, some people here have obviously put a lot of thought into this stuff. I'll just carry on soaking it in.
 

Miku Miku

Gold Member
Jan 13, 2018
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Good post. And its true it isnt really a strictly partisan issue.

However, there are some reasons it is perceived that way. Conservatives led the way in the war on terror, and the war in Iraq. There are adults alive today that dont even remember when the US was not at war so that is a giant influence. Its been that long.

Vietnam was also opposed most visibly by younger liberals. The right likes to also try and take ownership of military culture, gun culture, and gives off the impression they are pro war pretty frequently.

Democratic politicians often vote for the same wars anyway though. Actually anti-war elected officials are rare in either party. Obama also attempted an Iraq exit and ran on that. But then he also started shit elsewhere and Hillary is a warmonger as well. But so is Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Bolton.
 

AaronB

Member
May 5, 2013
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Sorry it took me so long to respond to this, as I have been on vacation and usually slow time at work is my GAF reading and shitposting time.

I have been a paleocon since I was 18. I worked for Buchanan for President and got my first subscription to Chronicles Magazine at that time. This was in the era after the first Gulf War, when that was not a popular position. I also read Sam Francis and believed what he said about the middle of the country, the working class, being open to an anti-interventionist message as long as it wasn't linked to a far left social agenda. I was so happy to watch Trump demolish the Zionist shills in the GOP primaries, he was like a crude, but popular and energetic version of Buchanan.

ConnorDuffy, that is the standard paleocon position. We should have the strongest military in the world, but need to use it only for defense.

Yoshi throwing in the word "pacifism" muddles things up. Paleocons are not pacificsts. Come break into my house and find out what a "pacifist" I am. I will shoot your fucking face off. Attack America, actual America not some puppet regime or illegitimate area we are occupying, and I will be in favor of removing your nation from the human race, permanently. But if you leave us alone, we should be friends and trading partners with everybody.

We have never had a "justifiable" war. But I will be honest, of course the wars of conquest of our continent, like against the Indians, or James K. Polk destroying Mexico and taking everything of any value from them. Those I would have supported. Maybe 1812, since the Brits were actually impressing American sailors, although that probably could have been handled diplomatically. But every other war, where we have sent our men to die on other continents, was bullshit.

Look at the great warmongers of history...FDR and Wilson, who purposely got us into the two most destructive wars in history, which we had no reason to be a part of. Liberals both. They believe in the state, and in using state power to impose progressive values, so you think that stops at our borders? Please. Was it Bismarck who said "war is the health of the state," or was that Napoleon. I can't remember. Anyway, he was right and that is why every actual leftist has a war monger inside him, because ultimately they believe that there are universal values that must be imposed.

The Cold War era, with militaristic "conservatives" and pacifistic "liberals" was an anomaly. Liberals were only pacifistic in the Cold War because they liked the particular enemy of that time. Look at the Roosevelt administration, fooled by every Stalinist "5 year plan" update and riddled with KGB agents. "Conservatives" were only cold warriors because the enemy happened to be Marxists. And they were overwhelmed by the lies of the Neoconservative cabal who used the Cold War as a front for a whole different agenda. Even Buchanan fell for it to an extent and was a big war monger in the Reagan and Nixon administrations.

Things are back into their regular channels now, with leftists yelling about Russia and middle America shooting down neoconservative plots to intervene in Syria. Justin Raimondo, a gay libertarian (RIP) tried to reach out to the anti-war left and even antifa types, and was rebuffed. Leftists hate to admit this, they think of themselves as rebels against some corporate/governmental/war machine. But they are actually the servants of it now, and they are paid in the constant drum beat of corporate sponsored social leftism, as long as they keep quiet about neoliberalism and internationalism their soma will be lots of corporate advertising with mixed-race couples, rainbow flags, and transsexuals.
"War is the health of the state" is the best-known quote by Randolph Bourne, author of the essay "The State". I really need to reread his stuff again, btw, it's in the public domain and he's a phenomenal writer. He was a progressive journalist in the WWI era, and was one of the few progressives to oppose the war (Jane Addams was the other really noteworthy one). Most of the rest were all too happy to use the war to impose their ideas at home and abroad.
 
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autoduelist

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Aug 30, 2014
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I'd argue the establishment has always been essentially pro-war since the latter half of last century or so. Activists were generally anti-war.

Due to the 80's and 90's, most activists found themselves either on the far left [pre insanity] or wholly independent.

911 stirred stuff up. Establishment went into overdrive.

Then Ron Paul brought anti-war back to the right because libertarianism is generally very anti-war.

Trump, who is anti-war and anti-establishment, caused TDS in the left who then went fully establishment [HRC is establishment personified] which is effectively pro-war. The old guard anti-war far left either ran screaming from the left [me] or joined the cult [some people i knew].

The fundemental thing to understand is that the military industrial complex is real. It is neither left nor right. It is the establishment, the deeply entrenched power elite. Bushes, Clintons, etc.


Above is a must watch, historic speech.


Start above at 4:17 if you're short on time. Trump talking about rhe resistance he faces when trying to get our troops home. This is not the only time he's spoke on it. There is an interview with Rand Paul where Rand confided that Trump wants to be remembered as the president who ended the endless wars. Compare that to how the media presents him.

That's the dirty secret the media don't want you to know. It's one of the reasons we're witnessing the full power of the establishment try to destroy Trump, discredit him, get people not to listen to him.
 
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HE1NZ

Member
Apr 9, 2019
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Pacifism is probably more of a left's position, because right wingers believe some wars are necessary wars and it allows strong individuals to make a difference. Leftist governments however when in power never followed this agenda. They are in fact the biggest war mongerers because for them the state is paramount and human life is just a statistic.
 
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