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Opinion Is Coronavirus creating a future of ungodly high taxes? Are future generations completely screwed?

JordanN

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So I read this article today that estimates just how much Canada is spending during this crisis, and the estimates put it at $184 billion.

Parliamentary Budget Officer Yves Giroux says the federal deficit could reach $184.2-billion this year based on the measures announced to date in response to COVID-19.

A deficit of that size for the fiscal year that started April 1 would represent a deficit of 8.5 per cent of GDP.

The figures are contained in a new report released Thursday by Parliament’s spending watchdog. The report cautions that this is an illustrative scenario and is not a forecast of the most likely outcome.
Which might not sound like a lot, now, but keep in mind, Canada's government, only brings in about $313 Billion a year in revenue.




So yeah, that's already more than half of our total revenue being eaten right now.

But this now begs the question, is the aftermath going to be more scary than what any current prediction holds for the future?

For example, thanks to the Russia/Saudi Arabia pissing match, Canadian oil is being completely eviscerated right now. Which is actually terrible because our GDP depends on it.

Over the last few weeks, the higher breakeven costs for oil and the lack of sufficient takeaway capacity has come back to haunt Canada’s oil patch. Two months ago, the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers (CAPP) was expecting upstream capital investment in Canada’s oil sands to grow this year from 2019 for the first increase in capital expenditures in five years due to “a more competitive economic environment,” thanks to new policies of the Alberta government.

It took just two months of a ‘black swan’ global event not only to wipe out any competitive environment but to send Canada’s oil industry fighting for its life, again, just five years after the previous oil price crash from which the industry had just recovered.

Due to the price war and the demand plunge in the pandemic, the price of Western Canadian Select (WCS), the benchmark price of oil from Canada’s oil sands delivered at Hardisty, Alberta, is US$5 or less these days, pushing all producers out of the profitability range and raising the question: Will Canada’s oil sands industry make it through this price slump?

The current disastrous state of the market for Canada’s oil raises another, existential question: as calls for climate action grow, how many investors still believe that higher-cost crude—such as Canada’s heavy oil—can compete economically with the low-cost barrels from Saudi Arabia?




But what I think is more terrifying is that as the government continues to spend more and more money, it's going to come back in the form of higher taxes, which keep in mind, by Canadian standards, it's already alot.

If you're lucky enough to actually live next to a city and be paid the average salary, expect the government to take 1/4 of your pay, while the rest of the money will be eaten up by an ever increasing rent costs.

But what's going to happen when the taxes for the middle class continue to rise? More homelessness?



And for any Americans reading this, that "$60,000" average salary is absolutely worthless. It's the equivalent to making $40,000 while living in New York City or Los Angeles, yet with all the high costs attached to it.

 
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The Pleasure

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Ban immigration. That's your solution right? But seriously that debt is nothing compared to what the US is doling out to corporations.
 
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JordanN

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Ban immigration. That's your solution right? But seriously that debt is nothing compared to what the US is doling out to corporations.
H Hecaton117 was right.

People don't even read my threads. They just come in to make weird one-liners.

I already explained why Canadian debt is different from the U.S. Nor did I even say a single word about immigration.
 
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The Pleasure

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H Hecaton117 was right.

People don't even read my threads. They just come in to make weird one-liners.

I already explained why Canadian debt is different from the U.S. Nor did I even say a single word about immigration.
When more than 33% of your posts mention it, people kind of tune out. It's very akin to the and they hated him even if he may be telling the truth.
 

JordanN

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Worried about massive inflation too.

That video game you want might be $75 in a couple weeks.
Inflation + supply & demand.

I was talking to an owner of a Chinese restauraunt the other day, and she explained to me that they're being forced to raise prices because the cost of bringing rice over here is going up as well.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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We need more inflation.

Future generations in the USA are going to be rolling in the dough because the largest generation -- Boomers -- are retiring and capital investment is gonna become worth more (as Boomers withdraw for pleasure instead of investing for future pleasure). Those who can afford to invest will get a bigger payoff for less investment. The only people who are screwed are those who fritter away the boom and stay in debt.
 

JordanN

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We need more inflation.

Future generations in the USA are going to be rolling in the dough because the largest generation -- Boomers -- are retiring and capital investment is gonna become worth more (as Boomers withdraw for pleasure instead of investing for future pleasure). Those who can afford to invest will get a bigger payoff for less investment. The only people who are screwed are those who fritter away the boom and stay in debt.
Since Boomers are the main targets of the virus right now, I'm actually curious if they are even spending money?

For example, we know cruise ships all over the world are forced to close down. Same with Golf courses or Bingo parlors.

That money is just sitting there until they die.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Since Boomers are the main targets of the virus right now, I'm actually curious if they are even spending money?

For example, we know cruise ships all over the world are forced to close down.
Well their savings could be completely wiped out, that's another possibility.

But if we are entering an era of renewed populism + buying local + fear of international travel + retirement surge, they're gonna spend it in a way that benefits their neighbors instead of the Thai prostitute on their 26th vacation since retiring.
 

JordanN

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Well their savings could be completely wiped out, that's another possibility.

But if we are entering an era of renewed populism + buying local + fear of international travel + retirement surge, they're gonna spend it in a way that benefits their neighbors instead of the Thai prostitute on their 26th vacation since retiring.
I hope.

But then again, I also see tons of Boomers who are fine waiting 1 hour in line at Walmart, everyday. Big retail benefits, but small businesses are going to suffer.
 

Rat Rage

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For the wealthiest and most powerful countries depts don't exist. It doesn't matter how much dept they produce - it's all "fantasy money" and "fantasy dept". However, it works. Many people believe in it and this "fantasy dept" will actually restore the economy, and by restore in mean people will gain their trust back and start working like normal.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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I hope.

But then again, I also see tons of Boomers who are fine waiting 1 hour in line at Walmart, everyday. Big retail benefits, but small businesses are going to suffer.
Supply and demand applies there too. People with disposable income tend to demand higher quality, too, and the cookie-cutter retail model of bare-bones customer service and Made In China quality simply won't be up to snuff. The retail chains won't have a prayer of competing if the boutique grocery chain with friendlier, better-paid employees can provide the self-absorbed retirees with a better experience at only a slightly-higher price. The death of clothing stores and all-purpose department stores (Sears, JC Penny's, Macy's, etc) was the canary in the coalmine. Wal Mart didn't survived by out-competing with better quality, it just out-priced other dying chains and ate up their customer base as the whole market shrinks in unison. Costco employees make a ton of money (relatively) and brag about it. What happens when the social-justice generations (Gen Xers, Millenials) start getting wealthier? They're gonna keep doing what they're already doing: spending their money on costlier brands that make them feel moral and socially responsible.
 
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cryptoadam

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Feb 21, 2018
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Get into the PPE and ventilator business if you can. Governments will be spending billions to try and assure their public that they will be "ready" for the next round.
 

JordanN

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Get into the PPE and ventilator business if you can. Governments will be spending billions to try and assure their public that they will be "ready" for the next round.
I live next door to a cemetery and I ironically made a joke today that business is booming.

Although maybe it's not a joke. I definitely see new graves being dug up daily. :messenger_fearful:
 
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epicnemesis

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The best solution is to have China cover every country’s stimulus packages. They are directly responsible for what the world is going through. If they acted responsibly from the get go instead of spending a month and a half in cover up mode this whole thing would be a non issue.
 

Cato

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It will be a lot more than that puny 184B before this is over.
I don't think high taxes can pay for it.

What can do is massive inflation over a decade or two. Let the inflation eat away and erase all this debt
while at the same time inflation will eat away and erase all savings, all pension funds and the middle class.
 
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Taxexemption

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Look to Japan, it's our most likely future. You have slow growth, increased job competition, and salaryman culture to look forward to with constant inflation. As I understand it, the trend is slow growth once a nation exceeds 100% of debt to GDP. I'm sure our institutions will do everything they can to make the numbers look good, but expect it to become harder and harder to get by and get entry level jobs.
 
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HarryKS

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To be fair, this reckoning has been coming for a long time.

The real estate market and money laundering go hand-in-hand here. The government is complicit.
You'd be surprised by how much they depend on municipal taxes.
 

HarryKS

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Triple post: He better freeze rentals. Because we're gonna get into a world of hurt. Beyond taxes, the credit buildup has been insane. The amount of deferrals going through is on a different level altogether.
 

Super Mario

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Supply and demand applies there too. People with disposable income tend to demand higher quality, too, and the cookie-cutter retail model of bare-bones customer service and Made In China quality simply won't be up to snuff. The retail chains won't have a prayer of competing if the boutique grocery chain with friendlier, better-paid employees can provide the self-absorbed retirees with a better experience at only a slightly-higher price. The death of clothing stores and all-purpose department stores (Sears, JC Penny's, Macy's, etc) was the canary in the coalmine. Wal Mart didn't survived by out-competing with better quality, it just out-priced other dying chains and ate up their customer base as the whole market shrinks in unison. Costco employees make a ton of money (relatively) and brag about it. What happens when the social-justice generations (Gen Xers, Millenials) start getting wealthier? They're gonna keep doing what they're already doing: spending their money on costlier brands that make them feel moral and socially responsible.
While there is some level of truth to what you said for many Americans, it is laughable that the boutique chains would win vs your Walmarts of the world. Not everyone is an upscale soccer mom who values the same things. There's plenty of financially sound people who choose Walmart due to its convenience and price. Many Walmart location's quality of service reflects their community too. Honestly, the service is no better at any other grocer vs my local Walmart. Maybe at Trader Joe's the cashier will make better conversation. That is never going to change the purchasing habits of the masses.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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While there is some level of truth to what you said for many Americans, it is laughable that the boutique chains would win vs your Walmarts of the world. Not everyone is an upscale soccer mom who values the same things. There's plenty of financially sound people who choose Walmart due to its convenience and price. Many Walmart location's quality of service reflects their community too. Honestly, the service is no better at any other grocer vs my local Walmart. Maybe at Trader Joe's the cashier will make better conversation. That is never going to change the purchasing habits of the masses.
I'm not saying the boutique shops will win, only that Wal Mart's current model will have to change and will have to incorporate some of the "upscale" (whatever form that might take) offerings.
 

Torrent of Pork

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While there is some level of truth to what you said for many Americans, it is laughable that the boutique chains would win vs your Walmarts of the world. Not everyone is an upscale soccer mom who values the same things. There's plenty of financially sound people who choose Walmart due to its convenience and price. Many Walmart location's quality of service reflects their community too. Honestly, the service is no better at any other grocer vs my local Walmart. Maybe at Trader Joe's the cashier will make better conversation. That is never going to change the purchasing habits of the masses.
As a former employee, and current stockholder of Publix Inc., dems fightin words.
 

ipukespiders

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What happens if/when we remain in lockdown after the CERB has run it's course? Does the government extend it for another 4 months putting the country more in debt, or just cut everyone off and if you're "lucky" you move to EI?
The second half of this year is gonna be bonkers.
 

JordanN

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What happens if/when we remain in lockdown after the CERB has run it's course? Does the government extend it for another 4 months putting the country more in debt, or just cut everyone off and if you're "lucky" you move to EI?
The second half of this year is gonna be bonkers.
Trudeau said we can't expect things to return to normal until the vaccine is release, which is 1 year away.

And Quebec just told people to cancel ALL Summer events....

There's going to be a lot of debt, and a lot of businesses struggling to survive. So expect even more unemployment.
 
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DeepEnigma

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This news come out of America but New York City is closing their schools for the remaining months.

That's not good.

They close in May anyhow, which is next month. It's not going to be cleaned up by then, but I still feel there will be those that want to extend this as long as they can. Slow burn.
 

Teletraan1

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I think kids getting back to school for this year is the least of our problems. My sisters kids are still doing schoolwork. They have them set up on some google classroom thing. They get assignments. I say focus on getting them back in the fall. Focus on getting other workers back. Start with businesses that don't have public foot traffic. They need grocery stores to get back to normal. Prior to this nonsense I could go to a store, never interact with anyone or feel they were invading my space and be done the entire affair in a few minutes. Now I have to stand in a line far closer to others than I ever was in the past in shit weather for hours to accomplish the exact same thing. It is idiotic.
 

Leyasu

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I have been saying this since mid-March. Next year, or when a medicine is found that renders this no more than a cold or the flu or when a vaccine is found and the globe can be fully reopened. We are looking at taxation levels that have not been seen in decades. Or for a lot of people, never been seen in their/our lifetimes.

There is no way around it, the trillions that will need to be spent to keep things on life support until this is eradicated will have to come from somewhere and have to be paid back. If COVID-19 doesn't get you, the misery that is going to follow will...

The race to find a vaccine is two-fold, protect and to mitigate the damage to the global economy. There is probably more money being spent on a vaccine today, then that has been spent cancer research in the last 20 - 30 years. If this much money was being invested in cancer research, it would be eradicated this year too
 
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HarryKS

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I have been saying this since mid-March. Next year, or when a medicine is found that renders this no more than a cold or the flu or when a vaccine is found and the globe can be fully reopened. We are looking at taxation levels that have not been seen in decades. Or for a lot of people, never been seen in their/our lifetimes.

There is no way around it, the trillions that will need to be spent to keep things on life support until this is eradicated will have to come from somewhere and have to be paid back. If COVID-19 doesn't get you, the misery that is going to follow will...

The race to find a vaccine is two-fold, protect and to mitigate the damage to the global economy. There is probably more money being spent on a vaccine today, then that has been spent cancer research in the last 20 - 30 years. If this much money was being invested in cancer research, it would be eradicated this year too
No. There's only so much money can do. We don't have this level of technology yet. And we won't, for a long time.
 
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Leyasu

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No. There's only so much money can do. We don't have this level of technology yet. And we won't, for a long time.
?? For what do we need advance technology? Beating cancer or creating a vaccine for COVID-19?
 

HarryKS

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?? For what do we need advance technology? Beating cancer or creating a vaccine for COVID-19?
Both. Cancer to a higher degree. COVID-19 vaccination research has been piggybacking on SARS research which has been ongoing for 17 years. It's 80% similar. Money won't really change much at this point.
 

Leyasu

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Both. Cancer to a higher degree. COVID-19 vaccination research has been piggybacking on SARS research which has been ongoing for 17 years. It's 80% similar. Money won't really change much at this point.
Money will enable more and more people to work on it. Yeah, I saw too that they were using some of the SARS research.
 

Woo-Fu

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As long as economic growth outpaces interest rates the deficit really isn't a problem. When growth doesn't outpace interest rates then there is a much bigger problem of some sort than the deficit---like now.

You're never going to get taxed in America specifically to pay down the deficit. I don't know about Canada. It would be practically impossible to pass unless overnight nobody wanted to get re-elected. What you might see is some sort of tax for is increased pandemic readiness., although even that would be hard to pass. After all, it wasn't a lack of money that prevented the last three administrations from increasing the number of ventilators on hand, it was simply not giving a shit.

Once America lights the fires again we'll be back to steady growth, quarter after quarter and interest rates will stay low. Don't spend any time worrying about deficit. Worry that our economy only has two throttle settings, 0 and 100%. America's economy simply doesn't work at anything other than 100%.
 
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HarryKS

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As long as economic growth outpaces interest rates the deficit really isn't a problem. When growth doesn't outpace interest rates then there is a much bigger problem of some sort than the deficit---like now.

You're never going to get taxed in America specifically to pay down the deficit. I don't know about Canada. It would be practically impossible to pass unless overnight nobody wanted to get re-elected. What you might see is some sort of tax for is increased pandemic readiness., although even that would be hard to pass. After all, it wasn't a lack of money that prevented the last three administrations from increasing the number of ventilators on hand, it was simply not giving a shit.

Once America lights the fires again we'll be back to steady growth, quarter after quarter and interest rates will stay low. Don't spend any time worrying about deficit. Worry that our economy only has two throttle settings, 0 and 100%. America's economy simply doesn't work at anything other than 100%.
Optimistic, but flawed. Growth in terms of what? Y.O.Y? That is definitely out of the window. You will see 15% unemployment by month end. You will see lagging consumption by Q3. assuming this thing even calms down. You will see, probably a drop in wages. You will see a collapse in REITs. You will see the DOW test the bottoms again. You will see another swathe of foreclosures and people defaulting on debts.

Bringing it back to Canada, taxes will not be an issue. They're the last thing we need to worry about.

The real estate bubble and the petrodollar are. And we are in a world of hurt. Canadian oil trades well below Brent and WTI. At this current level, it's running red, very, very red. The current WTI, WCS, Brent and other benchmarks are well above their reasonable price considering the demand hitting decades-long lows. There's far too much oil for the current demand. And the reserves are almost maxed out.
 

longdi

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The word is stagflation.

If avocado gen aint fucked yet, they are totally going to get it up their asses now.
 

longdi

Ni hao ma, fellow kids?
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All the shares buyback and FIRE movement, dollar cost averaging for retirement. It is a conspiracy wrapped as good investment advice from internet authors. Just another capitalist ponzi scheme. :(

How the greedy ruling elite failed us, by putting profit before pandemic preparedness
  • The global ruling elite, who ignored expert warnings of a pandemic, are even now proposing stimulus measures to prop up markets, rather than truly help people
  • Expect any attempts to align supply chains to health care or welfare imperatives to meet fierce resistance from vested financial interests, further holding back economic recovery
As the Covid-19 pandemic unfolds, hundreds of thousands may well die, possibly even millions, if the hot weather cannot slow the disease in the southern hemisphere. Governments and people may pin their hopes on effective medicine and/or a vaccine coming come soon, but neither is likely. This catastrophe may well last well into next year and change the world as we know it.
While the virus is a natural phenomenon, the ensuing tragedy should have been preventable. Infectious disease experts have been predicting a pandemic like this as a certainty. Yet, the global ruling elites ignored it.
Instead, they gather at Davosevery year to talk about power, money and technology – mostly about its potential for making money. They have not focused on the No 1 responsibility of any ruling class – the safety of the people. If health care systems had been prepared for a pandemic like this, there would be 100 times fewer casualties.
Instead of protecting people, they spent trillions of dollars bailing themselves out after creating the 2008 global financial crisisthrough their greed. Then, they built huge financial bubbles to make themselves richer than ever. If there is justice, these elites should go to jail for their criminal negligence.
The current chorus from these same influential people is about how to keep stimulating the economy with trillions of dollars. Their real purpose is to prop up financial markets, not to help people. When the stimulus cost is tallied, it is likely to surpass US$10 trillion, twice as much as proposed now.

While financial assistance for the unemployed is necessary, help for big businesses is hard to justify. The US government has budgeted US$500 billionto help businesses. For years, many of these businesses have used their profits and borrowed more to buy back stocks. Helping them is a grave injustice. Such policies only make the world less stable.
The trillions of dollars in aid will not return the world to where it was; this is not like restarting a disrupted film. The global economy could fall by over 20 per cent in the second quarter, the biggest drop ever during peacetime. Any recovery during the second half of the year, or beyond, is likely to be anaemic for four reasons.
First, life cannot go back to normal so soon. Social distancing may slow down Covid-19, but will not eliminate it. If people return to their old ways, the virus is likely to come back. Social distancing, even loosened, has a significant impact on the services industry.

The tourism sector, for example, will remain shuttered for the foreseeable future. It employs one in 10 people in the non-agricultural sector. This factor alone will keep the global economy below the 2019 level for at least two years.
Second, this crisis has exposed the fragility and unaccounted extra costs of maintaining a global supply chain. Electronics and car industries have been severely interrupted. Just-in-time inventory management and the concentration of parts production has left the global economy extremely vulnerable to a black swan event such as Covid-19.
The cost is more than just to the gross domestic product. When the production of health care equipment and medicines is interrupted, lives are lost, unnecessarily.

Political forces are likely to ensure global companies rearrange their supply chains to reflect national interests, not just profit maximisation. This process of deglobalisation will slow the economy and generate considerable inflationary pressure.
Third, the Covid-19 crisis has burst financial bubbles built up since 2008. The US stock market, for example, is normalising, which could wipe out US$15 trillion in wealth. As the slowing global economy increases credit risks, the overleveraged shadow banking system may catch fire.
American companies have been borrowing for years to buy back stocks. Some of their bonds are likely to default. This kind of debt crisis will be a significant drag on the global economy.

Lastly, the crisis is forcing governments to reallocate resources to health care systems and other forms of welfare protection. The US spends nearly one-fifth of its GDP on health care but is failing to cope with a pandemic like this because resource allocation has been driven by profit, not the safety of the masses. As vested financial interests resist the reallocation of resources, the economy is likely to be dragged down.
Hong Kong’s property market is a small but extremely egregious example of screwing people over for the benefit of the rich. With people asked to stay at home, the city’s small and subdivided flats with their congested conditions– making it so much easier for a virus to spread – are literally killing people.
People become depressed when confined in small spaces for too long. Hong Kong’s property market is at best a screw-the-poor and rob-the-middle-class plot to benefit the rich and powerful, often in the guise of an everybody-can-get-rich casino. This crisis has exposed it as a bloodsucking conspiracy against the people. Is a revolution avoidable?
In this grim tragedy, the good news is about the scientific race for new equipment, medicine and a vaccine to fight the virus. Human ingenuity tends to become turbocharged under extreme pressure. The discoveries during the second world war have powered the tech economy ever since. The discoveries made during this Covid-19 war may unleash a wave of bioscience advances to benefit mankind for ages to come
 
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Cunth

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May 22, 2018
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All the shares buyback and FIRE movement, dollar cost averaging for retirement. It is a conspiracy wrapped as good investment advice from internet authors. Just another capitalist ponzi scheme. :(

How the greedy ruling elite failed us, by putting profit before pandemic preparedness
  • The global ruling elite, who ignored expert warnings of a pandemic, are even now proposing stimulus measures to prop up markets, rather than truly help people
  • Expect any attempts to align supply chains to health care or welfare imperatives to meet fierce resistance from vested financial interests, further holding back economic recovery
As the Covid-19 pandemic unfolds, hundreds of thousands may well die, possibly even millions, if the hot weather cannot slow the disease in the southern hemisphere. Governments and people may pin their hopes on effective medicine and/or a vaccine coming come soon, but neither is likely. This catastrophe may well last well into next year and change the world as we know it.
While the virus is a natural phenomenon, the ensuing tragedy should have been preventable. Infectious disease experts have been predicting a pandemic like this as a certainty. Yet, the global ruling elites ignored it.
Instead, they gather at Davosevery year to talk about power, money and technology – mostly about its potential for making money. They have not focused on the No 1 responsibility of any ruling class – the safety of the people. If health care systems had been prepared for a pandemic like this, there would be 100 times fewer casualties.
Instead of protecting people, they spent trillions of dollars bailing themselves out after creating the 2008 global financial crisisthrough their greed. Then, they built huge financial bubbles to make themselves richer than ever. If there is justice, these elites should go to jail for their criminal negligence.
The current chorus from these same influential people is about how to keep stimulating the economy with trillions of dollars. Their real purpose is to prop up financial markets, not to help people. When the stimulus cost is tallied, it is likely to surpass US$10 trillion, twice as much as proposed now.

While financial assistance for the unemployed is necessary, help for big businesses is hard to justify. The US government has budgeted US$500 billionto help businesses. For years, many of these businesses have used their profits and borrowed more to buy back stocks. Helping them is a grave injustice. Such policies only make the world less stable.
The trillions of dollars in aid will not return the world to where it was; this is not like restarting a disrupted film. The global economy could fall by over 20 per cent in the second quarter, the biggest drop ever during peacetime. Any recovery during the second half of the year, or beyond, is likely to be anaemic for four reasons.
First, life cannot go back to normal so soon. Social distancing may slow down Covid-19, but will not eliminate it. If people return to their old ways, the virus is likely to come back. Social distancing, even loosened, has a significant impact on the services industry.

The tourism sector, for example, will remain shuttered for the foreseeable future. It employs one in 10 people in the non-agricultural sector. This factor alone will keep the global economy below the 2019 level for at least two years.
Second, this crisis has exposed the fragility and unaccounted extra costs of maintaining a global supply chain. Electronics and car industries have been severely interrupted. Just-in-time inventory management and the concentration of parts production has left the global economy extremely vulnerable to a black swan event such as Covid-19.
The cost is more than just to the gross domestic product. When the production of health care equipment and medicines is interrupted, lives are lost, unnecessarily.

Political forces are likely to ensure global companies rearrange their supply chains to reflect national interests, not just profit maximisation. This process of deglobalisation will slow the economy and generate considerable inflationary pressure.
Third, the Covid-19 crisis has burst financial bubbles built up since 2008. The US stock market, for example, is normalising, which could wipe out US$15 trillion in wealth. As the slowing global economy increases credit risks, the overleveraged shadow banking system may catch fire.
American companies have been borrowing for years to buy back stocks. Some of their bonds are likely to default. This kind of debt crisis will be a significant drag on the global economy.

Lastly, the crisis is forcing governments to reallocate resources to health care systems and other forms of welfare protection. The US spends nearly one-fifth of its GDP on health care but is failing to cope with a pandemic like this because resource allocation has been driven by profit, not the safety of the masses. As vested financial interests resist the reallocation of resources, the economy is likely to be dragged down.
Hong Kong’s property market is a small but extremely egregious example of screwing people over for the benefit of the rich. With people asked to stay at home, the city’s small and subdivided flats with their congested conditions– making it so much easier for a virus to spread – are literally killing people.
People become depressed when confined in small spaces for too long. Hong Kong’s property market is at best a screw-the-poor and rob-the-middle-class plot to benefit the rich and powerful, often in the guise of an everybody-can-get-rich casino. This crisis has exposed it as a bloodsucking conspiracy against the people. Is a revolution avoidable?
In this grim tragedy, the good news is about the scientific race for new equipment, medicine and a vaccine to fight the virus. Human ingenuity tends to become turbocharged under extreme pressure. The discoveries during the second world war have powered the tech economy ever since. The discoveries made during this Covid-19 war may unleash a wave of bioscience advances to benefit mankind for ages to come
what a weird wall of text. why are all the links the same Chinese website. is this the weibo copypasta of the day
 

womfalcs3

Member
May 11, 2007
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Worried about massive inflation too.

That video game you want might be $75 in a couple weeks.
That's why Trump shouldn't have piled onto the debt (with his tax cuts) during times of good economic activity and the fed interest rate low.

Now that we have a downturn, we expectedly added to the debt at a fast pace and lowered our interest rate to 0.

High inflation is inevitable. And wages won't keep up.


Should've taken a page from Clinton's playbook. Bill gave Bush a federal budget in surplus. Then Bush had his disastrous tax cuts and wars, and destroyed that budgetary standing.
 
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Woo-Fu

incest on the subway
Jan 2, 2007
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Optimistic, but flawed. Growth in terms of what? Y.O.Y? That is definitely out of the window. You will see 15% unemployment by month end. You will see lagging consumption by Q3. assuming this thing even calms down. You will see, probably a drop in wages. You will see a collapse in REITs. You will see the DOW test the bottoms again. You will see another swathe of foreclosures and people defaulting on debts.

Bringing it back to Canada, taxes will not be an issue. They're the last thing we need to worry about.

The real estate bubble and the petrodollar are. And we are in a world of hurt. Canadian oil trades well below Brent and WTI. At this current level, it's running red, very, very red. The current WTI, WCS, Brent and other benchmarks are well above their reasonable price considering the demand hitting decades-long lows. There's far too much oil for the current demand. And the reserves are almost maxed out.
You're not actually disagreeing with me. You're listing all the issues that are going to slow us getting back to the growth we're used to, all the issues that will be more important than the deficit, which was my point.

The simple fact of the matter is that our economy doesn't work without that growth and without it we have a lot bigger issues to deal with than the deficit. If we have 30% unemployment is anybody going to be crying about the deficit? Nope. If the stock market doesn't recover---which I consider highly unlikely considering it already makes fitful starts whenever there is even a microscopic ray of sunshine---are we going to be sweating the deficit? Nope. And my other point goes untouched, America isn't going to tax people specifically to deal with the deficit. Anything even remotely akin to an austerity measure is political suicide.

And while you call it optimistic, I call it pragmatic. There simply is no other alternative that doesn't end with America as the largest chinese-manufactured trailer park on the planet.
 
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HarryKS

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Jan 24, 2010
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You're not actually disagreeing with me. You're listing all the issues that are going to slow us getting back to the growth we're used to, all the issues that will be more important than the deficit, which was my point.

The simple fact of the matter is that our economy doesn't work without that growth and without it we have a lot bigger issues to deal with than the deficit. If we have 30% unemployment is anybody going to be crying about the deficit? Nope. If the stock market doesn't recover---which I consider highly unlikely considering it already makes fitful starts whenever there is even a microscopic ray of sunshine---are we going to be sweating the deficit? Nope. And my other point goes untouched, America isn't going to tax people specifically to deal with the deficit. Anything even remotely akin to an austerity measure is political suicide.

And while you call it optimistic, I call it pragmatic. There simply is no other alternative that doesn't end with America as the largest chinese-manufactured trailer park on the planet.
I don't disagree. But optimistic in the short term, not long term. I should have included that. Short term will be catastrophic.

Also, was bringing in a more Canadian perspective.p
 

JordanN

Member
Apr 21, 2012
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Brampton, Ontario
The city of Vancouver is now risking bankruptcy.



In a press release issued on Sunday afternoon, Mayor Kennedy Stewart said his earlier claim that the city would lose up to $189 million in revenue and fee shortfalls in 2020 could be $325 million short of the mark. The city has already laid off 1,500 workers.

“If 25 per cent of homeowners do end up defaulting on their property taxes, we could shed up to an additional $325 million in revenues,” Stewart said. “Losing more than half-a-billion dollars in operating funds in 2020 would devastate the city’s financial position, forcing us to liquify assets and exhaust every reserve fund we have — just to avoid insolvency.”

Property taxes make up the bulk of the city’s revenues at $874 million in 2019.

It’s illegal for Vancouver and other local governments to run deficits, so the only way we can stay afloat is with the help of the federal and provincial governments. Otherwise, local governments will be forced to take drastic measures that will hurt residents and businesses, and significantly slow any post-pandemic economic recovery.”

According to the city’s financial records, the city’s overall financial position improved by $300.8 million in 2019 with accumulated surplus totalling $7.9 billion. The city is carrying $1 billion in debt and last year received an extra $40 million in property tax, as payments from developers plunged. City expenses climbed over $300 million a year between 2015 and 2019.

The city has $1.28 billion in reserves, including $146 million set aside for catastrophic events.

Considering Vancouver is Canada's version of "Hollywood", I would treat this as an emergency.
 
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JordanN

Member
Apr 21, 2012
20,790
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Brampton, Ontario
5.4 Million Canadians are now on Emergency Aid

The federal government says nearly 5.4 million Canadians are now receiving emergency aid to replace incomes lost due to COVID-19.

The figures Monday morning show 5.38 million applications have been processed since March 15, a figure that includes people who were previously on employment insurance before being moved over to the Canada Emergency Response Benefit.


During the first week it was available, there were just under 3.5 million claims for the $2,000-a-month benefit, including nearly 172,000 over the past two days.

In all, the government has received 5.97 million claims for financial help since the crisis began about one month ago.

More help is to arrive next week in the form of a new loan program to help eligible small businesses cover costs.
If 5.4 million people are on CERB , that means $10 Billion Dollars is already being spent on a single month.

Canada's entire population by the way is 37 million people.
 
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