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Is Game Pass Genius or am I overthinking it?

TTOOLL

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We have to wait and see. They will eventually increase prices and create tiers as Netflix did. Netflix is still successful so...
 

FeiRR

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Jesus christ there's a lot of fragile personalities about.

You made a crap point. I told you why it's a crap point.

If you don't like it, make better arguments than "I don't like Gamepass because I value the ability to do what I want with my game".
Relax, you can make another advertising thread the other day and try again. Just remember that this forum is basically an echo chamber for your folk right now so maybe it's time to go wider, like other social media? Remember, you make a difference!
 
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Bankai

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You can pretty much underthink it. It’s fantastic for the consumer, no question about it. Microsoft can take the loss, no problem. Xbox will grow exponentially because of it and the service will eventually make money - when many more millions on people support it.
 

Karmic Raze

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A service costing about 10$/month where you can either download or stream games not tell me what's the difference.
Psnow has about 8 to 900 titles half of which are downloadable or streamable on ps4 the rest need to be streamed (works on PC too).
Gamepass has around 200 games that will be able to be streamed once xcloud is launched globally (and works on pc too).

Besides Ms first party on day one what is the difference ? Heavy marketing push ?

I forgot you could download the games. I thought it was streaming only, so you make a good point. I guess it is pretty much the same without the marketing push. Probably better.
 
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Kadayi

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I guess it depends on how much of a backlog you have. If it's huge like mine, there's no much point in paying for a subscription that increases it even more without having the time to play them.

Same. I've got a backlog like Satan, so I have no real interest in game pass versus buying titles, but I can definitely see the appeal for other players. I think the real secret sauce for MS is going to be the Xbox S tbh because the low price point, maybe coupled with a few months of a game pass thrown in as an incentive could well be their gateway drug to breaking into the PS5 Asian market. Not absurdly expensive, small form factor (a huge plus), and instant access to hundreds of games ...sure maybe not as powerful as its more pricy big brother or PS5, but when down the road MS do a refresh on the X, there's every possibility that they might convince existing S owners to make the jump, but if nothing else it's just about getting choice in front of players.
 
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Mmnow

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Relax, you can make another advertising thread the other day and try again. Just remember that this forum is basically an echo chamber for your folk right now so maybe it's time to go wider, like other social media? Remember, you make a difference!
"Hey, a Gamepass thread. You know What'd make everyone see how cool I am? If I go in there and shit on it, and then get really delicate because Im not sharp enough to come up with an actual criticism of the service."

It's getting boring.
 
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FeiRR

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"Hey, a Gamepass thread. You know What'd make everyone see how cool I am? If I go in there and shit on it, and then get really delicate because Im not sharp enough to come up with an actual criticism of the service."

It's getting boring.
I'm doing fine. How are you? Maybe another insult my way? ;)
 

FeiRR

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Yeah, no. You don't get to accuse someone else of shilling and then pretend like you're being unfairly attacked.
Don't forget to report me! Your coworker Billy will gladly ban me again. It's an efficient organisation.
 

Wizz-Art

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It's rental service.

It kinda is, but much better! You don't have to go return games at a specific time and don't have to bother with too late fees and stuff like that. Meanwhile you keep acces to all first party games as long as you are subscribed and get to play all new first party releases without any additional fees.
 

DiegoAndrad

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Honestly, at $10/month I prefer to just buy the games I actually want on sale. Specially considering how often they rotate third party games in and out of the service.

They will try to lure people into the service using the sheer amount of games available, mostly indies, but then trap then into playing longer games like RPGs and GaaS. The big question is if people will fall for it. Because if you're playing a single game for months, paying a subscription makes no sense.
 

Bo_Hazem

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It kinda is, but much better! You don't have to go return games at a specific time and don't have to bother with too late fees and stuff like that. Meanwhile you keep acces to all first party games as long as you are subscribed and get to play all new first party releases without any additional fees.

I would rather pay more for better quality games than what's offered there, but glad that some people like it.
 
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I think it is works when theye are not the market leader and everyone sees it as extra cash with exposure limited to the smallest user base.

At the same time, I believe more publishers will chase a fall guys approach or Genshin Impact style (we are at the tail end of Destinu rip offs). Those are the hits this year outside of Animal Crossing. Maybe gamepass might help soften some of that transition by covering costs while getting the launch user base you need to hit the headlines.
 

Wizz-Art

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Totally true, but you can't say AAA franchises aren't getting nerfed budgets to fit the gamepass model. Halo Infinite cough cough.

So yeah better games...

I can say they aren't, otherwise the same Halo Infinity you mentioned wouldn't get delayed as it certainly would've been cheaper to release it day one XSX/XSS releases. Also what about all the other games that aren't having a lower budget?
 
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sublimit

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I couldn't care less about it. I like to own my games and play them when i want to play them.I also like to replay the games that i love and really master them and not rush through them like a casual a mentality that services like Gamepass seem to push.
I'd rather play and master 10 great games a year that i will own forever rather than rushing through hundrends of games that say nothing to me and a few good ones that i will not have the time to focus on them because they have a timer and after a few months they will be removed from the service.
 
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You can make up theories all you like. But we have reached the point where only reality matters.

In a few months, we will find out if Gamepass is sustainable as a business model. Nothing any of us hypothesize would matter at that point.

Reality matters. Remember that only a few months ago, Halo Infinite was hailed as the great Xbox Hope that would launch with Series X. Until reality decided to assert itself. And Google Stadia was going to destroy all the old hands of the console industry, until it becomes the joke it was suppose to be from the beginning.

At some point, marketing ends, and what matters is results. Can you deliver what you promised? And it does not matter if you retroactively pretend that you never made any promises; that would not suddenly meant you delivered.

We are not trying to run a fantasy football team here; we are watching an actual industry making their next generational leap. And at some point all the lies had to come home to roost.
 
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Impotaku

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That image makes me laugh as if you look closer it's the same stack of 10 or so games copy pasted into towers.
 

mejin

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No genius move at all. The art of losing money is genius...fuck me lol

Genius move was ps4 and nowadays switch. And if anyone needs to ask why...damn.

It is not sustainable as a service without MS war chest and their hope is to be successful to really charge you later, in a possible future where traditional market is dead and they have some kind of monopoly.

Right now no one should care anyway. Choices are great.

People are buying the games and consoles outside Xbox ecosystem even when gamepass is a reality. Maybe that's why some people has the need to say every single day: "Have you heard about gamepass?" Stay preaching.
 
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Thirty7ven

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Here’s what I know, Disney went from no streaming to 100 million subscribers in a couple of months.

Good on MS for fronting the money though.
 
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Here’s what I know, Disney went from no streaming to 100 million subscribers in a couple of months.

Good on MS for fronting the money though.
If you think video streaming is the same as remote processing of game data, you are making a big mistake.
And if Microsoft think video streaming is the same as remote processing of game data, Gamepass is doomed.

Here is what i know; despite Disney's success with almost everything video, their gaming attempts had been massive failures. There is a reason for that.
"It would be just like Netflix" is the same old lie that Xbox uses. The application of false analogies. Like "having a much weaker Series S is fine, PC already does this!". One again, a lie that doesn't make sense if you know anything about the subject.

I am just preparing the schadenfreude. I love it when smoke and mirrors dissipate and people are forced to see reality. Only a few more months to go.
 

Three

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Currently game pass has around 15 million subs paying something around $10 a month. So Xbox is bringing in something like $150mil a month. In this next generation let's say they double the subs to 30mil. That's $300 million a month. It's all digital and all funds currently flow straight to them.
You must remember that this is like the whole industry. "Straight to them" is every publisher that has games on gamepass that gets money for their game. It's not that great especially if it kills sales.
 

DavidGzz

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Maybe that's why some people has the need to say every single day: "Have you heard about gamepass?" Stay preaching.

Did you check OP's post history or who are you talking about exactly? Pretty sure it's new people each time a thread is made. Stay concerned.
 
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chonga

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They never said it was running at a loss. They said it’s not a big money maker right now. There is a big difference.

They are reinvesting profits right now to get more games, until it can become self sustaining as the OP suggested.
I think it is unquestionably making a loss right now. And let's not forget just how many people converted their Gold into GP for up to 3 years for just $1. And you can still do that today if you haven't done so already.

Phil's talked about 'going long' with Game Pass. That's their only concern, how will this look in 10 years time. Frankly you would struggle to get a service like this off the ground without making a loss. If you look at any low cost subscription product out there that seeks profit through volume in the long run they all run at big losses in their infancy.

So you shouldn't be surprised or concerned that it is making a loss.

Realistically the first milestone will be to replace the revenue you already have. I really can't see current numbers doing that.

I think in 10 years time a 100m subscriber count is doable. And that revenue would be plenty enough to cover costs of churning out enough high quality titles that would be comparable to say Sony's output and leaving you some profit on the side. I also think the growth curve will slow down a lot in the next couple of years as they reach saturation point with their console owners and PC players and we'll have a bit of a lull until cloud gaming starts to gain traction in the later years.
 
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You must remember that this is like the whole industry. "Straight to them" is every publisher that has games on gamepass that gets money for their game. It's not that great especially if it kills sales.
Yep. Gamepass is the reverse of the game console buisness model.

With traditional consoles, the console holder get paid 30% free money of everything third party does.
With Gamepass, the console holder PAY THIRD PARTIES. So despite it seemed like a lot of money initially, Gamepass cost more to run and Xbox get less of a share. And it only gets worse each time Gamepass expands in third parties.

In the traditional model, the more third party games you have on your console, the more free money you get with minimal work. With Gamepass the more third party games you have in your streaming services, the more you had to pay them. The scaling sucks. Just as setting up game streaming servers scale badly outside of extremely populated areas. And the more people connect to a server, the more money it costs to run it, and the worse is the gaming experience for the user.

All that does not affect Netflix Video streaming. But it DOES affect game streaming. Xbox is betting the farm on them getting it working, because if they can't, their fate would be worse than Stadia's.
 

Warnen

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With Gamepass and xcloud I can see not owning any gaming only hardware ever again (save a controller) by end of this coming gen.

With the turn to digital this current gen, not a huge leap to think that streaming will be the standard not to far in the future.


Physcial media buffs, your time is coming to an end.
 
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Also why does the OP think 15 million people are paying $10 a month?

They are still literally giving game pass away for 'free' 1$ a month if you unsubscribe, let it run out and subscribe again. Then you got millions who converted 3 years of gold for 1$
Then you got all the other deals as well.

Gamepass will be lucky if it even has half of the 15 million subbing at 10$ a month.
 
Oct 16, 2017
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With Gamepass and xcloud I can see not owning any gaming only hardware ever again (save a controller) by end of this coming gen.

With the turn to digital this current gen, not a huge leap to think that streaming will be the standard not to far in the future.


Physcial media buffs, your time is coming to an end.
You don't get to decide something is already a massive success, and then pretend it is already reality. That was what Stadia did, and they paid the price.
Game streaming is both an inferior gaming experience for the user, and a more costly service for the provider. The only justification for the provider to do it is the dream of one day forcing a price increase when there was no alternative. But you forget one thing; that it requires the alternative to be shut down. And you haven't planned how to do that part.

Usually you do it by simply providing a superior service. But in this case streaming is not cheaper, it is not more powerful, and it is not more convenient. You can't plan for what to do with the success of Gamepass, before you actually GET that success first. you are better off buying lottery tickets.
 
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How does Gamepass differ from PlayStation Plus? Honest Question...

For what I can see, Gamepass is very similar except that you don't need to "buy" the games on the month they're free (if you've been on PlayStation Plus for a few years, you've probably accumulated a ton of games whereas if you jump in on Gamepass now you will have all the older games that were released previously), games can be taken off Gamepass (go in rotation) and MS always release their 1st party titles on the service. Anything else? Is there something I'm missing..?
 
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KungFucius

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150m then substrac off operating costs(servers, salaries, data, etc)

Then marketing budget

Then other costs.


And then they have to divide the rest for +100 games to pay devs/owners.


I could imagine that one launch AAA title costs them full months or more of profits.

Gamepass is kind of a scam/trick to get something you dont need, it sells the image that you need it.

Like "hey, one bag of candy is 2€, but why dont you subscripe and get 200 bags/year for 10€/month? You save hundreds?" Deals

On paper it looks that you get lot with little, but in reality most will pay hundreds in a gen and play only 1-5% of what they offer. And in the end you just needed the one bag

GP ultimate is 13€/month = 155€ year. That is fucking expensive as subscription service to many.

When looking at statistics, doesnt average gamer buy only like 4-6games/gen?

Less than 1/year.

So having hundreds for cheap goes waste if they dont play more than few games year or even month, then it is just cheaper to buy games from sales.

Could be cultural thing, but here nobody I know is willing to pay for more than 1 video service or similar.

Like netflix only, prime only etc. Multiple are seen as being stupid consumer. And it includes other services too, so people dont want to have multiple subs of any kind, unless they really like it or need it

And people with ps+ pay for one sub, no room for more.

If costs vs what you get would not matter then people would not get the cheap 9.90€/month 100/10mbps internet connection as it is fast enough, they would get the 29-39€ 1000mbps connection.


Im really sceptical that it fucks ups games by lower quality, but we will see in 3-4 years I guess


The attach rates are on the order of 10 per gen. But that is for games sold. Some buy used so those 10 +/- whatever change hands a few times. The service eliminates the need for used games. Those looking for a deal can hop in for a month or 2 and play games cheaply. I am going to sign up on PC after Cyberpunk and Ass Creed. I already got rid of PS5 preorder when I looked at all the stuff coming from MS, 3rd parties and Nintendo. There is no way in hell I can play through half of all the great games coming there to justify another physical platform. MS wins me this round for at least a few months here and there.

The age of one subscription service is ending. People are not all stupid and they want content on other services. Some will begin rotating services if they want content and want to save money. Those with money to burn will maintain multiple services. I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing annual agreements come down significantly in price due to competition. The TV/Movie space has Netflix, Prime, Apple, Disney, HBO, Peacock, Paramount(new launch with CBS), Hulu, Services with local TV, etc. There is no way I could watch all of that content. It makes more sense to sign up for a couple months, watch the content you are interested in and drop the service until the next seasons drop.

With gaming it is different because you just need to keep the user engaged until the next big game. Having Xbox exclusives drop every couple of months really makes a compelling argument not to cancel, but you could cancel for a few months, wait for your backlog to fill up and jump back in.
 
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Warnen

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You don't get to decide something is already a massive success, and then pretend it is already reality. That was what Stadia did, and they paid the price.
Game streaming is both an inferior gaming experience for the user, and a more costly service for the provider. The only justification for the provider to do it is the dream of one day forcing a price increase when there was no alternative. But you forget one thing; that it requires the alternative to be shut down. And you haven't planned how to do that part.

Usually you do it by simply providing a superior service. But in this case streaming is not cheaper, it is not more powerful, and it is not more convenient. You can't plan for what to do with the success of Gamepass, before you actually GET that success first. you are better off buying lottery tickets.

1st off I didn’t decide anything, I stated my opinion.

Your post echos ones at the launch of the PS4 and Xbox in reference to Digital games.


Physical media is all but obsolete at this point anyways. Streaming will just dig the grave deeper.
 
Oct 16, 2017
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1st off I didn’t decide anything, I stated my opinion.

Your post echos ones at the launch of the PS4 and Xbox in reference to Digital games.


Physical media is all but obsolete at this point anyways. Streaming will just dig the grave deeper.
Digital games is already a massive success. It is on PC for a long time. Game streaming, especially a rental service? Less so. And as i said, there is a good reason for that. Game streaming is not video streaming, and just because you want them to be equivalent doesn't make it so. Have a nice day, we won't have long to see where Gamepass is headed.
 

Aidah

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Personally I've never paid $10 every month for it, and I never plan to. At regular price, I would only sub for a month when a 1st party game I would've bought anyway comes out. However even that might not be worth it, as the only thing I would sub to Game Pass for is 1st party, and for some weird reason Microsoft games on Steam in my region are ridiculously cheap ($10 for Ori at release, $20 for Gears 5...etc).

I have particular taste and a number of devices/platforms, and I don't value quantity by itself. I also play the games I really want on release or close to it most of the time, so a big 3rd party game that shows up on Game Pass 6 months after release is either something I already played (RDR2, Monster Hunter, DMCV...etc) or something I already passed on and didn't want to put time into.

I also dislike the potential of negative influence on game design, as the business model could incentivize prioritizing length, quantity, "engagement", recurrent spending, GaaS...etc.

Anyway, I think the 19th post on this thread put it best.
 
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Warnen

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Digital games is already a massive success. It is on PC for a long time. Game streaming, especially a rental service? Less so. And as i said, there is a good reason for that. Game streaming is not video streaming, and just because you want them to be equivalent doesn't make it so. Have a nice day, we won't have long to see where Gamepass is headed.

The latency is the only thing holding back game streaming, when that obstacle is overcome the sky is the limit.

Giants in this field are working on it, some one will crack it.
 

Wizz-Art

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How does Gamepass differ from PlayStation Plus? Honest Question...

For what I can see, Gamepass is very similar except that you don't need to "buy" the games on the month they're free (if you've been on PlayStation Plus for a few years, you've probably accumulated a ton of games whereas if you jump in on Gamepass now you will have all the older games that were released previously), games can be taken off Gamepass (go in rotation) and MS always release their 1st party titles on the service. Anything else? Is there something I'm missing..?

An honest response then.

No, Game Pass is not like PS Plus,. Xbox Live Gold is like Playstation Plus but better because the Xbox OG and Xbox360 games you get each month are yours to keep forever the additional Xbox One games that like PS Plus will be available to you as long as you keep subscribed. You need XLG and PS+ for multiplayer.

Game Pass is diffirent and offers you 100+ games and all first party games on release day one. Games come and go each month, most games will stay on the service for 6 months on average. First Party games don't leave at all.

Game Pass Ultimate offers you all that plus Xbox Live Gold and Game Pass for PC and in November adds EA Acces to the service for no additional cost.
 
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MrS

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It’s great for us as customers but it will never be profitable. The numbers make no sense. First thing I’ll do when I get a Series X will be signing up for GP.
 
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Deleted member 775630

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It’s great for us as customers but it will never be profitable. The numbers make no sense. First thing I’ll do when I get a Series X will be signing up for GP.
Could you run those numbers by us? Because I think it actually makes sense
 

MrS

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Could you run those numbers by us? Because I think it actually makes sense
How long will it take to recoup the 7.5 billion purchase of Bethesda when their consoles sell at a loss, they won’t move 1st party software at full price because people will play for a small amount via gamepass, millions have gamed the system to get three years of game pass for a pittance, and they have to subsidise 3rd party games on the platform.
 
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Tickrate

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All you really need ask yourself is: Do I expect to play 2 games on gamepass each year that I would have otherwise bought at full price.

If the answer is yes, good, you got your money's worth out of gamepass by subscribing. Not to mention all the extra benefits.
 

FunkMiller

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How long will it take to recoup the 7.5 billion purchase of Bethesda when their consoles sell at a loss, they won’t move 1st party software at full price because people will play for a small amount via gamepass, millions have gamed the system to get three years of game pass for a pittance, and they have to subsidise 3rd party games on the platform.

I don't see how it's sustainable to put brand new games on it, if people can essentially pay a dollar for a month, play the whole game, and immediately stop subscribing. Say Starfield comes to GamePass day and date... where do they get back the hundred million dollars plus that it cost to produce it?

Having said that, 15 million subscribers brings in a lot of cash a month. But then what are the differentials between revenue and profit? I don't think anyone can say whether GamePass is sustainable or not, unless we get those figures. Greenberg pretty much admitted it wasn't profitable, but no idea of the margin.
 
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geordiemp

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The latency is the only thing holding back game streaming, when that obstacle is overcome the sky is the limit.

Giants in this field are working on it, some one will crack it.

Some one will travel faster than the speed of light and there will be time travel...

Nope we are goverend by the laws of physics, so unless the data centre is on the end of every players street then it will always be what it is.
 
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Deleted member 775630

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How long will it take to recoup the 7.5 billion purchase of Bethesda when their consoles sell at a loss, they won’t move 1st party software at full price because people will play for a small amount via gamepass, millions have gamed the system to get three years of game pass for a pittance, and they have to subsidise 3rd party games on the platform.
You don't know how much Game Pass is currently generating in revenue. It's somewhere between 15 million - 8.1 billion over 3 years time.

That's why I asked you the numbers. You think a lot of people were only paying 1$ but you don't really know. I know enough people that pay $15 each month.
 
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