• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

Opinion Community Platform Is it acceptable that MS is releasing the Xbox Series S/X without a big AAA first party exclusive? Does it set a bad precedent for the industry? Poll!

Is it unacceptable to release a console without a big AAA first party exclusive? Wrong precedent?


  • Total voters
    636
May 8, 2020
3,835
9,297
640
I think the thread title does not need too much explanation for the informed gamer. However lets refresh on the thought process. For every console launch we've become accustomed to console manufacturers competing against each other very hard to release the best first party software at launch. They do this in an effort to differentiate from the competition to sell the box. Unfortunately, with the Xbox Series S/X from MS; this will be the first time we see a departure from said practice. If gamers reward the practice by purchasing the box without levying the proper criticism at the manufacturer (and/or hitting them were it hurts - the purse); I personally think this sets a wrong precedent that other industry players may try to emulate in their search for higher profit margins - in other words - to coast and do as little as possible for maximum return. Considering the fact that the console industry is an oligopoly of only 3 established players (Nintendo/Sony/MS); the options for gamers are few when they all lower standards in search for profit.

MS is finding itself releasing its next-gen family of consoles without a big AAA first party game due to poor studio management, and putting all its eggs into the Halo: Infinite basket. This is a stark contrast to the competition in Sony, that's is releasing the console with multiple AAA first party titles. But more revealing of different culture and values is Nintendo's management and approach when faced with similar circumstances after the failed console life-cycle of the Wii U. What I mean by that is that Nintendo delayed releasing the very popular Nintendo Switch only until it had Zelda: Breath of the Wild ready (a big AAA first party exclusive). Nintendo did this despite the Wii U affording them little time to get ready (while facing all sorts of investor pressure to completely change the company's business model - pivot to mobile, become third party etc). In other words, Nintendo respected and was fearful of their fans expectations, of industry expectations and as such only released when truly ready on both the hardware and software front. Microsoft however is releasing the console without a care for such expectations - and instead trying to shift the attention to other areas. This is of course smart marketing but not necessarily great for gamers as a whole. This is a stark contrast to Microsoft's own past with the Xbox 360 under Peter Moore, or Xbox One's launch under Matrick which saw AAA exclusives like Forza Motorsports, Killer Instinct etc.

Regardless of whether you're a PlayStation, Nintendo, or PC only fan (with no interest whatsoever in ever buying an Xbox console), this state of affairs should concern you for one big reason. These companies compete against each other and try to emulate each other in any area of success (as defined by them - profit). In other words, not only do they copy what a gamer could consider "best practices", BUT also the bad practices (as long as it fattens their bottomline). To a gamer; paywalling online MP access (Xbox Live and PS Plus) may look like a bad practice but to these companies it's just another profit play. Doing less for more, or simply doing less for the same is always in their radar - and in both instances, if rewarded by hardcore gamers with little pushback it will sadly only result in increased shareholder value for these companies for little to no gain to the consumer (gamer).

Do you fear that this will set a wrong precedent for the industry if rewarded across the board? Bad example to follow for industry players like Sony and Nintendo?
Do you care at all despite having no intention of buying an Xbox console?
If you're an Xbox fan do you think hardcore fans as yourself are doing enough to let Microsoft know this is unacceptable to you? Or do you simply don't care?
Is this a reason why you're switching (as a now former Xbox fan) to competing platforms this coming gen and thus that is your way of voting with your wallet (making your voice heard)?
Should Microsoft have done as Nintendo, and delayed launch until both the hardware and software (in this case) was ready?

Feel free to opine.
 
Last edited:

Pankratous

Member
Nov 12, 2013
7,326
274
650
It's a very poor showing on the games front from MS, but what do we expect? They've been poor on the games front for 19 years.

I'm likely going to buy one as my first ever Xbox because there's enough games there under BC/GamePass to catch up on, but if I was an up-to-date Xbox user I'd be disheartened.
 

Snakeyes313

Member
Apr 26, 2019
698
1,146
515
Leeds United Kingdom
I think it's fine. It would be nice if they had a 12TF RT demo at least, but software isn't MS problem.

Xbox has other issues right now imo, but it seems against neogaf rules to suggest them so...
Only if you're being a bitch about things like "The Hate" basically trying to stir the cauldron of vile piss that is fanboyism
 

TeKtheSanE

Member
Aug 25, 2018
428
657
490
A Place
My backlog is going to look great on my XSX, and then Cyberpunk will hold me over no problem until the AAA starts to drop. I will most likely get a PS5 after it's first refresh. (black console, different form factor please)
 

martino

Member
Apr 25, 2013
6,030
3,848
705
France
they never were in for the win because of the two next years to come on that aspect.
but you don't need to be first or play the game respecting ps fanbase rules to be fine and it will probably prove that too.
 
Last edited:

Ten_Fold

Member
Jan 18, 2017
2,399
2,119
480
Most people will be playing 2k21, COD, and cyberpunk, Xbox won’t really have anything till 2022 or late 21. Sony will have a solid next year from start to finish. I think Xbox need at least 1 standout, but it’s fine right now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Albion

gamerguywashere

Neophyte
Aug 3, 2020
385
424
280
portland, or
It's not a good look, really, but they expected Infinite to be that game. They tried to have something in place but it couldn't be done. It's been a shit year so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. It is what it is.

yeah, everyone gets a free covid pass with reasonable stuff like this


when the h/w plan is the problem, well...anyway, cool console, i like it a lot
 
Last edited:

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Jul 2, 2013
17,146
17,396
1,325
Oregon
It's not a good look, really, but they expected Infinite to be that game.

I like to imagine a world where Infinite looked great and blew everyone away. So it'd really be Halo: Infinite vs Spider-Man: Miles Morales and things would look very different.

In addition to this thread not existing.
 

Dr Bass

Gold Member
Jun 6, 2013
999
2,794
805
Yes, it is completely unacceptable because the Series X is not going to run any other current software at launch.

On top of that I am forced to buy one despite it running zero games.

I am so concerned about this direction that MS is taking, that I sit up at night wringing my sweaty hands together in constant angst. I mean, what about the consumer? Is it pro-consumer or anti-consumer?

So worried.

Much fear.

Wow.
 

Dogman

Member
Sep 25, 2020
168
617
265
I like to imagine a world where Infinite looked great and blew everyone away. So it'd really be Halo: Infinite vs Spider-Man: Miles Morales and things would look very different.

In addition to this thread not existing.
Too bad MS is so incompetent at making games that they managed to make Halo Infinite not only less exciting, but also non-existent next to a "DLC expansion" (which its not) and a ps3 game remake

And yet their fans are gonna eat it up with "but the Xbox One and 360 games! Bethesda acquisition! Sony charging for spiderman remaster!"

Gotta give it to MS. By acting and coming off as the good guy, they've managed to mask just how shitty their launch is actually gonna be
 
Last edited:

nikolino840

Member
Dec 30, 2018
3,962
4,451
610
36
Between Xbox 360 and Xbox one i have only played sea of thieves most
And i play almost every day

Never played an halo gears forza fable whatever
 

jshackles

Gentlemen, we can rebuild it. We have the capability to make the world's first enhanced store. Steam will be that store. Better than it was before.
Jul 2, 2013
17,146
17,396
1,325
Oregon
 

Full Recovery

Member
Jan 2, 2008
12,240
262
1,330
If Halo had launched with XsX as its showcase title Microsoft would be unstoppable right now. How they let 343 fall behind on development is beyond me. I’m glad they’re giving them more time to improve Halo, hopefully it will be the best Halo in the series.
 
May 8, 2020
3,835
9,297
640
The next gen version of Cyberpunk is not until next year though. I only found this out recently. So I'll be skipping the current gen version that is releasing this Xmas.

I may delay my purchase too if it has issues and requires patches.
 
Last edited:

DarkMage619

Member
Jun 19, 2004
2,395
3,458
1,590
This is not an issue. XSX has tons of new and old games to play including next gen only titles like Medium. The best titles on a platform are never the launch titles and in a few years we won't even remember what the system launched with. Enjoy the massive back compatibility catalog, the new cross gen titles and the XSX exclusives.
 

Warnen

Can he swing from a thread? Take a look overhead / Hey, there, there goes the Spider-Man
Sep 24, 2005
5,077
4,457
1,850
42
Sea lab
Kinda of a let down there isn't any next gen exclusive across the board this time (I guess Demon Souls Remake might count but played that years ago).

Even the new gamepass stuff has been on PC for a while.


Thankfully the potential game of the year comes out the following week. Also spider man MM prob gonna be a short good game even though its not exclusive.

I'll be spending my time on CoD Destiny and Cyberpunk for sure.
 
Last edited:
Jan 29, 2019
5,524
5,873
495
They can do whatever they want. In the meantime I feel like I have been right in pointing out MS has a serious content problem in their gaming platform, everything else is more or less irrelevant to the core of what we get games consoles for.

They should have put an emphasis on content from early last gen instead of putting so much efforts on services...now they're releasing a new console and they have nothing to show for it until at least one year in the future.🧐

For those telling us to be patient, Phil has been on the e3 stage every year since 2014 he told us to wait until e3... But never delivered, why should we believe that he will follow through this time around?
 

DrScissorsMD

Banned
Apr 3, 2020
484
952
405
... nah. It’s pretty obvious exclusives are a big thing for Sony and Nintendo just as it’s obvious exclusives are not the be all end all as Xbox still exists. There is no precedent to set other than to themselves; they’ve been clear with the direction they’re going and the service-oriented approach they’re taking. Also the argument doesn’t make a lot of sense when this was clearly an unplanned outcome for MS; in an ideal and COVID-free world, MS has a better looking Halo coming with launch and baring another global disaster I’m sure when ever the “next-next gen” happens they’ll have stuff for launch then too. There’s also a hell of a lot of big name 3rd party stuff to carry the load.

Sony being able to tout things like Demon Souls and Spider-Man as launch games are a boon for them, but the absence of an equivalent on Xbox isn’t really a huge deal in current circumstances.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SafeOrAlone
Dec 29, 2018
3,881
11,229
745
Do people (multiple) in here call Demon's Souls a remaster, because they want to downplay it or do they not know the difference between remasters and remakes ?
I was thinking the exact same thing.

This is a complete reworking of the game to fully take advantage of the PS5 toolset. The game is not coming to PS4 along with Ratchet & Clank.
Lots of ignorant posts in here.

New consoles are meant to show new experiences that can be had with the hardware. So far MS can only show increased load times, framerates and other performance improvements on older or existing games. There is nothing unique to Xbox that will be launching with the console to show off what Series X/S is capable of. That is a disappointment no matter how you slice it. Can't downplay it. Every console in the past has launched with exclusives and it gives a potential customer an incentive to invest in the hardware. So far Sony has (I think) 2 actual PS5 games launching? It's still a bit shit but better than not having any PS5 exclusives.

It's a bonus that Sony so far has shown these games actually running on PS5 hardware so potential customers know what they are getting. So far everything from Xbox (bar Dirt 5 i thinnk) has been shown running on PC.
 
Last edited:

Yoboman

Member
Sep 17, 2005
19,480
13,886
1,890
Real Question

Can you tell me what this game does better than Dark Souls/Bloodborne other than looking graphically great?
I dont know if you can argue anything is better than Dark Souls and BB, because those games built off the basis that was Demons Souls.

But while it was amazing, it was still low budget, didn't run great. There is a ton fo polish that can go into making it a better game
 

Nhranaghacon

Troll. Ignore my threads and posts. I won't be here long.
Sep 15, 2020
543
645
470
Personally, I think Microsoft needs to start working on a massive new game genre - something that every IP in their catalogue can utilize by tying them all together in an online component that connects all of their IP's in a massive online game. Something that caters to each game they have.

Imagine, you starting playing your fantasy game - and within this hub you can travel to an Avowed/Fable/Elderscrolls variant of that game and eventually step foot into the Avowed/Fable/Elderscrolls universe if you venture forward long enough, the scenery and quest's change to match the game within the gameiverse.

Same thing with horror themed games, a horror/zombie/demon infested area within this gameiverse (the same gameiverse that let you adventure forth with your fantasy rpg character) that lets you step into the arcade and throw's you and that character immediately into the state of decay universe or some wild arcade game at the arcade terminal you're standing at, back away and step into L4D or leave the arcade entirely and slay zombies inside that universe using your custom character, then travel to fantasy rpg land/FPS paradise and watch your custom characters attributes and game style change as you move from place to place.

That's the kind of exclusive I want to see from Microsoft in the future, a game that ties all their games together skillfully and allows people to adventure/come together in a sort of wild gaming metaverse/collaboration of all videogames. A gaming verse that ties all games together but has it's own style, looks beautiful, next gen and is fun/just as good as their most valuable IP's.
 

Warnen

Can he swing from a thread? Take a look overhead / Hey, there, there goes the Spider-Man
Sep 24, 2005
5,077
4,457
1,850
42
Sea lab
Do people (multiple) in here call Demon's Souls a remaster, because they want to downplay it or do they not know the difference between remasters and remakes ?

Prob to early to tell, is it the old game with new graphics? Did they update the game play to take advantages of the advances in the genre? New area layouts? New areas and items? No one knows yet and the game comes out soon.

Demon's Soul was the only Souls game I got into, mainly because I loved the bow. Later games took that out.
 
Last edited:

FeldMonster

Member
Nov 17, 2018
566
585
315
This is an incredibly short-sighted and antiquated point of view OP.

I refute your statements. This is the first generation with software based and full-library backwards compatibility with the previous generation at launch (both systems). Previous ones utilized hardware to my knowledge, such as PS2 -> PS3 and Gamecube --> Wii.

If you think about it, launch games (including launch window) are forced into their schedule first and the scope is altered up until the very last eligible moment to meet that aggressive schedule. With little in the way of similarity between the hardware of two successive generations, the launch games are either made for the previous generation first and then (non-optimally) adapted late in the process and/or they are built using non-final hardware, still changing dev kits. This is evident by the fact that the most technically impressive games do not appear until 2 or 3 years after launch (or even later).

Using one of your examples, Killer Instinct, which you say was a high quality launch game, I will explain. Killer Instinct is indeed high quality, but clearly its scope at launch (6 fighters) is far smaller than an ideal launch game. Later on, via Seasons 2 and 3, the game was expanded and advanced greatly. Microsoft wisely pivoted to an alternative business model, that of Free to Play. At the time, this was heavily criticized by the general gaming public, and yet, today this business model is considered to be a very normal and rather lucrative at that. If the game had been allowed to proceed at a normal schedule, it likely would have reached the Season 2 level of content before its release, though it would have missed the launch window.

Instead, Microsoft is taking the approach of letting games be made in a more natural schedule, and due to the high level of cross-compatibility, upon release, it will simply work for both generations without much fanfare. If anything, forcing games to meet the launch schedule is the process that should be considered unnatural and illogical. Games can be planned to be built from the ground up for the next generation once finalized next-gen devkits are made available. Given that game production is taking ever increasing amounts of time. This is actually the fastest way to make "true" next-gen games available, as the studio won't be finishing a game at this time. For example, imagine if Killzone ShadowFall was started 1 year later in production and released 1.5 - 2 years later, would it not have the polish that Horizon: Zero Dawn had?

That being said, you are welcome to your opinion. If you feel this strongly, don't buy it. Though assuming that a console will never have a library based on its launch games is a bit strange.
 
Last edited:
Dec 29, 2018
3,881
11,229
745
I think it’s bad management (craig infinite) but I don’t really care because there’s tons of games to play anyway.
You're right. Its not something to crucify Xbox about but it is wholly disappointing because all these years i have been looking forward to playing new games on new consoles. We all complained about framerates this gen, pop-in, flat textures etc. etc. and was hoping this new gen will somewhat alleviate these issues with the increased bump in CPU and GPU power along with fancy new features like ray tracing and 3D audio.

Now we can only really look forward to a handful of games that take advantage of both next gen machines. Cyberpunk next gen version launches next year. Fucking sucks. Been looking forward to playing this come end of the year. Now i have to wait on that next gen upgrade. Demons Souls is not my cup of tea. I don't have time to die over and over again to 'GET GUD'. Fuck that. I don't have time to sit with a game for days to finish a level.

But yeah i guess there are tons to play via BC on Xbox and PS5 (hopefully with good improvements in performance).

EDIT: Sorry mean to say PS5 and not PS4
 
Last edited:

Trimesh

Member
Jun 8, 2019
804
944
365
I honestly don't care - I've seen enough console launches to know that most of the time those "Big AAA first party exclusives" are pretty much shit and only sell well because of a lack of competition. The games that are really worth playing tend to start coming out at least a year after launch.

All part of the reason I'm going to wait this launch out.