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[erpg]

It's illegal.

Yeah, but I don't feel bad about it, so it's okay.

Oh, all right then.

 

[Minsc]

That is what plenty of people have been "insinuating" from post number one, yes. I would have zero moral qualms about it.

Do you think you're entitled to the developer's support if you do that? Would you go on their forums and tell them that you've downloaded a pirated version but are having problems? And I don't care if you could find your answer through google or whatever, I'm just curious if you'd think it'd be reasonable for the developer to support your pirated version since you paid for their product.

If you think you're not entitled to their support on the pirated version, well, then are they really the same thing? Or maybe you would expect the developer to be flattered you liked their game so much that you didn't even open it and downloaded an illegal copy instead?

 

[xelios]

It's illegal.

Yeah, but I don't feel bad about it, so it's okay.

Oh, all right then.

Bet you're a hit at parties!

 

[jorma]

Are you just trying to troll? Why are you purposefully ignoring the argument why that has been stated multiple times by multiple people, including the one you quoted.

wat? the sole argument he presents is "it's illegal", and quite frankly it's not a very compelling one, not when the law clashes so hard with the morality of most people.

In fact, one should probably ask for a lot better justification of laws that does clash hard with the morality of people in general.

It's illegal.

Yeah, but I don't feel bad about it, so it's okay.

Oh, all right then.

This is how i live my life. This is how most of the people i know live their lives. Morality before legality every time. That's one of the dangers of having legislation that clashes with the morality of so many - they become unenforcable because people tend to not give a shit about them.

 

[erpg]

Bet you're a hit at parties!

Bet you're an ad hominem!

 

[Minsc]

wat? the sole argument he presents is "it's illegal", and quite frankly it's not a very compelling one, not when the law clashes so hard with the morality of most people.

In fact, one should probably ask for a lot better justification of laws that does clash hard with the morality of people in general.

If there is nothing morally wrong with it, answer my question about whether you'd expect the developer to support you on the pirated copy, leaving your retail version unopened and uninstalled.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Bet you're a hit at parties!

LOL. You resort to personal insults because he says it's illegal? WOW. Classy...

 

[xelios]

Bet you're an ad hominem!

We've already established it's illegal. There is not much else to say in response to your, "Illegal = wrong," posts. Re: Past sodomy laws in the US and present ones in other countries. Teehee.

LOL. You resort to personal insults because he says it's illegal? WOW. Classy...

Not because he says it's illegal, but because he automatically equates anything illegal with being morally objectionable for no other reason than because the law declares it so. Which, to me, warrants nothing more than a joke response.

 

[jorma]

If there is nothing morally wrong with it, answer my question about whether you'd expect the developer to support you on the pirated copy, leaving your retail version unopened and uninstalled.

I would not expect it.

First, i would not be so stupid as to admit i was using an illegally obtained copy of the game, regardless of how morally righteous i felt on the issue. Secondly, the first thing he would say is "well the problem is probably with the copy you downloaded, try with the original".

So what would be the point?

 

[commish]

wat? the sole argument he presents is "it's illegal", and quite frankly it's not a very compelling one, not when the law clashes so hard with the morality of most people.

In fact, one should probably ask for a lot better justification of laws that does clash hard with the morality of people in general.



This is how i live my life. This is how most of the people i know live their lives. Morality before legality every time. That's one of the dangers of having legislation that clashes with the morality of so many - they become unenforcable because people tend to not give a shit about them.

EVERY SINGLE LAW IN THE WORLD clashes with SOMEONE'S morality. Every single one. It can't be avoided. Unless you think everyone shares the same morals? Should everyone follow their own morality and just ignore the law? What's the point of laws then?

 

[kpeezy]

EVERY SINGLE LAW IN THE WORLD clashes with SOMEONE'S morality. Every single one. It can't be avoided. Unless you think everyone shares the same morals? Should everyone follow their own morality and just ignore the law? What's the point of laws then?

It's as if you can't read.

 

[Zoe]

That is what plenty of people have been "insinuating" from post number one, yes. I would have zero moral qualms about it.

But one of the problems that has come up is he never plans to use the one he bought. When most people go on using ROM's, it's because they actually played off the original cartridge at one point in their lives.

A true collector would have bought two copies, but it sounds like it's too late for that with the games that don't have DL equivalents.

 

[jorma]

EVERY SINGLE LAW IN THE WORLD clashes with SOMEONE'S morality. Every single one. It can't be avoided. Unless you think everyone shares the same morals? Should everyone follow their own morality and just ignore the law? What's the point of laws then?

No, the entire point of laws is to express a morality shared by most of the people living within the legislative body. When the legislation starts to clash with the morality of the people, bad things happen.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

We've already established it's illegal. There is not much else to say in response to your, "Illegal = wrong," posts. Re: Past sodomy laws in the US and present ones in other countries. Teehee.



Not because he says it's illegal, but because he automatically equates anything illegal with being morally objectionable for no other reason than because the law declares it so. Which, to me, warrants nothing more than a joke response.

LOL, you're a joke character.

No, the entire point of laws is to express a morality shared by most of the people living within the legislative body. When the legislation starts to clash with the morality of the people, bad things happen.

So what bad things have happened from this being illegal? Or are you admitting now that majority of people feel that this should be illegal?

It's as if you can't read.

It's as if you can't make an argument.

But one of the problems that has come up is he never plans to use the one he bought. When most people go on using ROM's, it's because they actually played off the original cartridge at one point in their lives.

A true collector would have bought two copies, but it sounds like it's too late for that with the games that don't have DL equivalents.

You most certainly can buy a second copy, it's just not as cheap as stealing.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

EVERY SINGLE LAW IN THE WORLD clashes with SOMEONE'S morality. Every single one. It can't be avoided. Unless you think everyone shares the same morals? Should everyone follow their own morality and just ignore the law? What's the point of laws then?

The laws exist to instill the notion into society that that there are consequences to certain actions that are deemed unfit for society. It just so happens that there is a fair amount of overlap between what's legal and what most people consider moral. However, that's it. Legality and morality are not synonymous. If the argument is "could I theoretically be thrown into jail if I get caught downloading these files," then you can answer "yes," and we move on.

However, the "just because you're moral code doesn't agree, it's still illegal!" crowd doesn't seem to understand that nobody cares about that debate for the most part outside of nitpicky clarification of the law. Yes, you're right. No, nobody cares. Especially when we're talking about older games, in particular when the person does own a physical copy of them. Sure, it's technically illegal, but nobody cares. If in the OP's case, he did download that copy of Planescape, what are the chances that the cops are going to bust down his door or that he'll get sued? Because I'm guessing it's about .00000000001%. As such, nobody cares that it's illegal. The threat of punishment -- i.e. the purpose of laws -- barely apply here.

So instead, how about we explain using critical thinking and inherent subjectivity why we think the action is morally right or wrong. There actually is some potential for interesting discourse here when the conversation doesn't get bogged down with cries of "it's illegal!" and (insert stupid car analogy).

 

[mclem]

Clarksons law: any debate on videogame piracy has run its course when people start using car analogies.

what do people think? appropriate name? needs the definition tweaking?

Clarkson's corollary: Clarkson's Law is the most ubiquitous law...






...






...






...





...in the WORLD.

 

[Minsc]

I would not expect it.

First, i would not be so stupid as to admit i was using an illegally obtained copy of the game, regardless of how morally righteous i felt on the issue. Secondly, the first thing he would say is "well the problem is probably with the copy you downloaded, try with the original".

So what would be the point?

Yes, it's an obvious answer, there's no developers that would want to talk to you if you were using a pirated copy, and why is that? Why does it matter, and why is it something you have to "admit?" I can't imagine it makes them very happy to konw, even if you bought the game and loved it so much you couldn't open it. I think what I was getting at is morally, this isn't so black and white, unless you don't care to think it through.

Morals should concern more than just you (most people would agree), or they're very poorly founded I think. For example, if you only were concerned about yourself, your morals would be, well, poor. You'd be greedy, and do everything you wanted with what people would say are no morals wouldn't you?

So then I wonder, who are the players involved in this equation, and what should you be looking at. Well, there's you, the publishers and the developers. So I wonder what their thoughts on the matter would be? I imagine the publishers would 100% of the time say no, but what about the developers? Would they care if you pirated their games even if you bought them? I think they might. Why should you care what they think? Why should you care what anyone thinks? Because I don't think "good" morals should be a one-way street, but maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.

I wonder if you were a game developer if your morals would sit differently on this issue. I guess that's why there are laws in some cases, to make sure everyone just doesn't do what they want. I don't know, but it is interesting seeing what people think about copyrights, even if I don't agree. It's just one of those subjects that there are many sides to, from life in jail for downloading a dozen mp3s to downloading 1,000s of things a year without even thinking twice.