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[Men_in_Boxes]

If "old style multiplayer" is defined as ~10 minute rounds with fast respawns. Matches end with players having ~16K, 11D.

Quake, Unreal Tournament, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Halo, Overwatch, Call of Duty...

Three giant PvP multiplayer games launched last month (CoD Vanguard, BF 2042, Halo Infinite). All 3 fall under "old style multiplayer" category, and all 3 have seemingly underperformed in terms of player retention. Earlier this year, Knockout City released to surprisingly good reviews, and turned into a ghost town about a week later.

Are these types of games done, at least in terms of investment from big publishers? Or do you think we're going to see just as many over the next few years?

 

[AlteredForms]

You're talking about arena shooters with memorable maps, weapons and item placements? That genre has been dead for some time now, what are you talking about?

 

[ShadowLag]

They'll come back if marketing brings them back.

 

[M1chl]

Is Halo dead? Seems like more alive than ever...

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

You're talking about arena shooters with memorable maps, weapons and item placements? That genre has been dead for some time now, what are you talking about?

I guess it depends on what you mean by "dead for some time now".

Overwatch and traditional style Call of Duty were still massive just a few years ago. They also seem to be churning out these types of games with large budgets. See: November 2021.

 

[Con-Z-epT]

The younger generation seems to have the need for some kind of progression in their games to hold their attention. It is not about good core gameplay alone anymore. I would love to see a comeback for these kind of games but i don't think it will happen. At Least not on a bigger scale.

 

[kyliethicc]

Is Rainbow Six Siege old style or new?

Is Rocket League old or new?

Is Helldivers old or new?

Cause I play all 3 all the time and I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[KellyNole]

I've had more fun with Halo Infinite than COD or Battlefield recently. The last real Battlefied I enjoyed was 4 and the last COD that kept me engaged was modern warfare 2. Halo has brought back my joy of multiplayer. It is an older style of multiplayer.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Is Rainbow Six Siege old style or new?

Is Rocket League old or new?

Is Helldivers old or new?

Cause I play all 3 all the time and I have no idea what you're talking about.

If we plot games on a spectrum I'd put Rainbow Six & Rocket League towards the older side. Helldivers not as much.

Con-Z-epT made a good point. It's about games that give players a more fleshed out sense of progression, rather than just rounds with ranked badges.

 

[VN1X]

Three giant PvP multiplayer games launched last month (CoD Vanguard, BF 2042, Halo Infinite). All 3 fall under "old style multiplayer" category, and all 3 have seemingly underperformed in terms of player retention.

All three struggled because all three were shit. Halo maybe less so but despite it launching in piece-meal fashion they still struggled to get the multiplayer side of things right what with its dodgy progression systems and lack of content.

 

[Fbh]

Dead? No, I think they can still foster a long lasting community.
For example I think Halo infinite will be active for years to come.

But I do think the days of them dominating the multiplayer charts are over, and have been for a while.

 

[AlteredForms]

I guess it depends on what you mean by "dead for some time now".

Overwatch and traditional style Call of Duty were still massive just a few years ago. They also seem to be churning out these types of games with large budgets. See: November 2021.

In the case of Overwatch and Call of Duty they've been organised into their own sub-categories. Overwatch being a "hero shooter" whereas COD being branded a console shooter. The days of Quake and Unreal Tournament PC gameplay has been dead for some time now. Blazing fast movement speeds, rocketjumping and other strategic techniques, weapon and item spawn locations, learning map layouts? That's been out of FPS gaming for some while now.

 

[scalman]

what multiplayer ? ...

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

The younger generation seems to have the need for some kind of progression in their games to hold their attention. It is not about good core gameplay alone anymore. I would love to see a comeback for these kind of games but i don't think it will happen. At Least not on a bigger scale.

Do you really view a sense of progression as negative or something kids need?

Back in the 70's and 80's a bunch of single player games failed to provide gamers with a real sense of progression. They were essentially score chasing games, similar to how people chased scores in Unreal Tournament or traditional Call of Duty multiplayer (KD, rankings).

Then developers started making games like Zelda or Final Fantasy and progression almost became mandatory in the single player space.

How come a wider sense of progression is a negative here? Unless I'm mischaracterizing your position...

 

[Con-Z-epT]

Do you really view a sense of progression as negative or something kids need?

Back in the 70's and 80's a bunch of single player games failed to provide gamers with a real sense of progression. They were essentially score chasing games, similar to how people chased scores in Unreal Tournament or traditional Call of Duty multiplayer (KD, rankings).

Then developers started making games like Zelda or Final Fantasy and progression almost became mandatory in the single player space.

How come a wider sense of progression is a negative here? Unless I'm mischaracterizing your position...

I personally don't need a deeper progression to enjoy a multiplayer game but it sure can extend the playtime or better said the longevity of a game for others. I wouldn't judge it with bad or good just something i think younger people expect nowadays.

 

[kyliethicc]

If we plot games on a spectrum I'd put Rainbow Six & Rocket League towards the older side. Helldivers not as much.

Con-Z-epT made a good point. It's about games that give players a more fleshed out sense of progression, rather than just rounds with ranked badges.

Makes no sense.

Call of Duty 4 is 15 years old and was the revolutionary multiplayer game that changed everything. It turned a basic PvP game into a persistent online RPG with leveling up your character for unlocks. Introduced leveling up each weapon, introduced the now standard idea of a loadout customization with perks to unlock, skins to unlock per weapon, and attachment unlocks for each weapon. Even leveling up per attachment per gun.

I've been playing multiplayer games with a sense of long term progression for 15 years.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Makes no sense.

Call of Duty 4 is 15 years old and was the revolutionary multiplayer game that changed everything. It turned a basic PvP game into a persistent online RPG with leveling up your character for unlocks. Introduced leveling up each weapon, introduced the now standard idea of a loadout customization with perks to unlock, skins to unlock per weapon, and attachment unlocks for each weapon. Even leveling up per attachment per gun.

I've been playing multiplayer games with a sense of long term progression for 15 years.

You don't see how progression differs between traditional style CoD and a game like Rust? Personally, cosmetic progression is so far removed from gameplay progression that I'd classify them in completely different groups.

You shut off your CoD, and go play on your friends account, the experience is basically identical. You shut off your Rust, Ark, Minecraft etc...to go play on your friends account and the experience will almost certainly radically differ.

 

[Excess]

"Dead" as in there's an ever growing space of game types, each with its own market share?

Just because arena shooters no longer hold the largest market share does not mean they declined in comparison to the rise of a battle royale game.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Do you man in popularity? There are older style games made especially from indie developers. I think there will be a niche for it always.

 

[recursive]

I personally don't need a deeper progression to enjoy a multiplayer game but it sure can extend the playtime or better said the longevity of a game for others. I wouldn't judge it with bad or good just something i think younger people expect nowadays.

CoD has had progression systems for almost 15 years. I think adults expect it too. Those 15 year Olds back then are 30 now.

You just have different tastes.

 

[kyliethicc]

You don't see how progression differs between traditional style CoD and a game like Rust? Personally, cosmetic progression is so far removed from gameplay progression that I'd classify them in completely different groups.

You shut off your CoD, and go play on your friends account, the experience is basically identical. You shut off your Rust, Ark, Minecraft etc...to go play on your friends account and the experience will almost certainly radically differ.

The argument that all old multiplayer games lack gameplay progression is silly. CoD4 started it all and is 15 years old. It took a lot of time to unlock all the perks and weapons, which impacted gameplay experience significantly.

And I've never played Rust. Looked boring.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

Do you man in popularity? There are older style games made especially from indie developers. I think there will be a niche for it always.

Yeah, I think I mean in terms of AAA focus.

The new Twisted Metal, I expect, will be "old style multiplayer", but I don't think it'll have a massive budget.

Naughty Dogs Factions II, I fully expect to be a new school multiplayer as it sounds like it's going to be a pretty expensive game.

 

[akaFullmetal]

I think there is just a point of over saturation of online games. People have to spend a lot of time or money to get to these competitive levels and leaves you not enough time to get to every game out there. Which then leads to some games just never getting the attention it should have. If people stepped away from fortnite or whatever there could be more players for everyone.

 

[Men_in_Boxes]

CoD has had progression systems for almost 15 years. I think adults expect it too. Those 15 year Olds back then are 30 now.

You just have different tastes.

Progression is too blunt a word.

Perhaps "cosmetic progression" vs "gameplay progression" would be more helpful here.

 

[Dream-Knife]

Did Halo drop?

 

[ReBurn]

Do you really view a sense of progression as negative or something kids need?

Back in the 70's and 80's a bunch of single player games failed to provide gamers with a real sense of progression. They were essentially score chasing games, similar to how people chased scores in Unreal Tournament or traditional Call of Duty multiplayer (KD, rankings).

Then developers started making games like Zelda or Final Fantasy and progression almost became mandatory in the single player space.

How come a wider sense of progression is a negative here? Unless I'm mischaracterizing your position...

In the 70's and early 80's people didn't care about progression like they do today. Skill came into play with the ability to play longer as the game became more difficult to play and having your initials next to the high score. People loved it. Single player progression in games like Zelda makes sense, especially in games where there's a narrative and leveling up is required to drive the narrative forward. The old arcade games didn't tell stories so there was no reason for progression systems.

Multiplayer progression just feels so dumb in most cases. Back then we definitely didn't have people whining because they think they deserve a higher skill level and more powerful gear simply because they have been playing the game longer than other people. When you put your quarters down to play the winner you were either good enough to win or you weren't. If you lost you went back and practiced more. Progression based on grinding out xp is the worst kind of progression there is and it seems like that's what people want most these days. There was so much whining when Halo Infinite released because there wasn't enough xp awarded per match and they didn't gain enough levels the first day. It was so gross.

 

[Werewolfgrandma]

Counter strike says hello

 

[Bernkastel]

This game really rubbed someone the wrong way.

 

[TheMay30thMan]

Halo’s doing great right now. What are you talking about?

 

[Elder Legend]

Halo’s doing great right now. What are you talking about?

I think his on his monthly prescription of "delusional tablets at 1000 miligrams per month"

 

[HermitSperg691]

Where have you been OP? It's been long gone.

Might as well let out what I hate about modern shooters here.

Unless it's a class based FPS your K/D should be the only thing that matters. No kill assists either. Kill assists are put there to make people feel better about not getting a kill. If your score is based solely on the amount of kills you get it's the best display of skill there is in an FPS.

Also I rather go back to where there were faction specific weapons. Ex. Russians have AK's and Americans have M4's. It was more immersive and fun.

Another example Battlefield 2142:

Pan-Asian coalition

European Union

Do you really view a sense of progression as negative or something kids need?

Back in the 70's and 80's a bunch of single player games failed to provide gamers with a real sense of progression. They were essentially score chasing games, similar to how people chased scores in Unreal Tournament or traditional Call of Duty multiplayer (KD, rankings).

Then developers started making games like Zelda or Final Fantasy and progression almost became mandatory in the single player space.

How come a wider sense of progression is a negative here? Unless I'm mischaracterizing your position...

I don't need ranks, unlocks, and retarded skins to have fun. I can't believe people need that shit to have fun in an FPS. First place on the scoreboard, achievements, and overall stats are the only things that should matter.

 

[Elder Legend]

Where have you been OP? It's been long gone.

Might as well let out what I hate about modern shooters here.

Unless it's a class based FPS your K/D should be the only thing that matters. No kill assists either. Kill assists are put there just to make people feel better for not getting a kill. If your score is based solely on the amount of kills you get it's the best display of skill there is in an FPS.

Also I rather go back to where there were faction specific weapons. Ex. Russians have AK's and Americans have M4's. It was more immersive and fun.

Another example Battlefield 2142:

Pan-Asian coalition

European Union:

I don't need rankings, unlocks, and retarded skins to have fun. I can't believe people need that shit to have fun in an FPS. First place on the scoreboard, achievements, and overall stats are the only thing that should matter.

Perhaps you should retire gaming.

Multiplayer games are so much more fulfilling now thanks to progressions systems and cosmetics.

Imagine playing Fortnite or Halo Infinite with 0 rewards for your time. No, thanks. You are absolutely delusional. Oh well, less silly people to play thankfully. Don't worry, we won't miss you.

 

[HermitSperg691]

Perhaps you should retire gaming.

Multiplayer games are so much more fulfilling now thanks to progressions systems and cosmetics.

Imagine playing Fortnite or Halo Infinite with 0 rewards for your time. No, thanks. You are absolutely delusional. Oh well, less silly people to play thankfully. Don't worry, we won't miss you.

The reward is first place on the scoreboard and that's all you need.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Imagine playing Fortnite or Halo Infinite with 0 rewards for your time.

Sounds like a hell of a lot more fun to me. Imagine playing at your own pace for your own enjoyment instead of seeking fake rewards.

 

[Batiman]

Nah. Halo bringing it back

 

[Batiman]

Multiplayer games are so much more fulfilling now thanks to progressions systems and cosmetics.

Imagine playing Fortnite or Halo Infinite with 0 rewards for your time. No, thanks. You are absolutely delusional. Oh well, less silly people to play thankfully. Don't worry, we won't miss you.

rewards? You play video games for rewards? The reward for playing games is fun. Always has been and shouldn’t change

 

[Elder Legend]

rewards? You play video games for rewards? The reward for playing games is fun. Always has been and shouldn’t change

Yes the rewards are fun for me dingus. Sure, playing the game is fun but it's even more fun when you get rewarded.

If you fail to see that then you must really live a boring life. Either that or you have lower standards than others. Good luck having a game in today's day with 0 rewards or anything for your time. It will bomb and fail miserably.

 

[DangerDiabolik]

Halo Infinite currently has 134k viewers on Twitch and is still regularly in the top 3 most played things on Steam at peak US hours.

So basically... what on Earth are you talking about?

 

[Batiman]

Yes the rewards are fun for me dingus. Sure, playing the game is fun but it's even more fun when you get rewarded.

If you fail to see that then you must really live a boring life. Either that or you have lower standards than others. Good luck having a game in today's day with 0 rewards or anything for your time. It will bomb and fail miserably.

Rewards in a video game mean Jack shit to me. I just play to win and have fun doing so. What does it do for you?

living a happy life btw. If getting a digital trophy makes your life exciting I feel bad for you

 

[Black_Stride]

Wait Halo is dead?
What does that say about every game that falls behind it on the most played list?

US - Number 2

Uk - Number 2

Australia - Number 2

Japan - Number 1

 

[Elder Legend]

Rewards in a video game mean Jack shit to me. I just play to win and have fun doing so. What does it do for you?

living a happy life btw. If getting a digital trophy makes your life exciting I feel bad for you

Yeah I enjoy getting achievements.

People like different things and if it makes them happy then why shit on others?

Digital trophy? What about eSports people who make a living is that a bad life too? Whatever dude. We can agree to disagree.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Halo’s doing great right now. What are you talking about?

the numbers on steam are dropping in large numbers.

 

[ZywyPL]

Seeing how much people craved for a Slayer-only playlist in Halo Infinite, and that TDM is the most popular mode in CoD, I'd say no, far from it. But still, the games are watered down when it comes to overall speed compated to the good old days - sure the matches are 10min. tops, but then you're forced fo stare at the scoreboard for a minute or two for whatever the reason, then you stay another minute or two in the pre-match lobby, then the next map loads, then you have those unskippable cinematic interludes, then there's the 10s counter and then you can finally actually play the next game... And IMO anything more than a 3s respawn is a mistake.

 

[Guilty_AI]

People like different things and if it makes them happy then why shit on others?

...

If you fail to see that then you must really live a boring life. Either that or you have lower standards than others.

Yes mate, why shit on others?

 

[bitbydeath]

Died with Warhawk.
RIP

 

[ACESHIGH]

ADHD kids, teens, and overworked adults need bars moving up to feel they are progressing. Its not enough to naturally improve in a game and enjoy playing a well designed shooter. Nowadays, its all about spending 20 mins watching a BR game to end while you listen to music or doing dance moves on the lobby of an online game while you go live on Twitch.

BTW I feel really old because to me "old style multiplayer" is: pass the controller to your friend or play local MP.

 

[Black_Stride]

the numbers on steam are dropping in large numbers.

~90,000 peak players daily isnt exactly small numbers you know that right?
And thats not counting people who play from the Microsoft store....or on Series consoles.....or on Xbox One consoles.
Its far from dead is a top 10 most played game on Xbox platform.

US - Number 2

Uk - Number 2

Australia - Number 2

Japan - Number 1

 

[Kssio_Aug]

I mean... Even if these classic style MP games are not as populated as some battle royale for example, I believe they're still, generally, way more populated than MP games used to be in the 10-20 years ago. Games nowadays are quite a trend and there's just way more people buying and playing now.

 

[Batiman]

Yeah I enjoy getting achievements.

People like different things and if it makes them happy then why shit on others?

Digital trophy? What about eSports people who make a living is that a bad life too? Whatever dude. We can agree to disagree.

Nah the esports players play to win which is the reward. I doubt most care about progression/unlock/cosmetics. They play for the game itself. Not digital achievements. Real competitive achievements by focusing on the game. Not what skin their gonna unlock.

Why shit on others? You called people silly and delusional that didn’t agree with you.

 

[Griffon]

Halo is doing great.

If the game is good it will do good. BF and CoD are simply bad games.