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Is Robert Mueller’s Russian Troll Farm Indictment Falling Apart?

bucyou

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One of the Russian companies indicted by Robert Mueller has called the special counsel’s bluff and is challenging Mueller’s accusations in an attempt to force the release of not-yet-public information.

Issued on February 16, Mueller’s 37-page indictment named 13 people and three organizations as co-conspirators in a wide-ranging scheme “to interfere with the U.S. political system, including the 2016 presidential election,” by way of engaging in nefarious “information warfare” through social media.

One of those named companies is Concord Management and Consulting LLC. Page six of Mueller’s February indictment alleged that Concord Management has received “various Russian government contracts” but stopped short of detailing or otherwise explicitly mentioning those contracts.

The indictment also claims Concord Management was the “primary source of funding for [Russian] interference operations.” The document goes on to accuse the company of concealing their alleged troll-funding efforts by intentionally and erroneously labeling those funds “as payments related to software support and development.”

Now, it appears Concord Management is forcefully pushing back. Bloomberg News described the firm’s tactics as “hardball” due to the thorough and pointed nature of their questions. Politico even suggested that Concord Management’s aggressive lawyering could result in an “embarrassing dismissal.”

On Friday, Mueller’s team revealed that attorneys for the company had made numerous discovery requests. Those requests were aimed at nonpublic details about the government’s case and underlying investigation. Mueller’s prosecutors were apparently caught off-guard by those requests–it’s been widely assumed that no one named in the February indictment would even bother to respond to the accusations, much less fight back against them and force Mueller’s team to reveal what they know.

Concord Management’s attorneys of record are Eric Dubelier and Kate Seikaly. On April 11, Dubelier and Seikaly filed their initial notice of appearance in the case United States v. Internet Research Agency LLC et al. This appearance was immediately supplemented with over a dozen discovery requests and a pleading for answers to 51 factual claims made by Mueller stylized as a Bill of Particulars.

Mueller rubbished those requests in a Friday court filing. Government attorneys Jeannie Rhee, Rush Atkinson and Ryan Dickey wrote:

Until the Court has an opportunity to determine if Concord was properly served, it would be inadvisable to conduct an initial appearance and arraignment at which important rights will be communicated and a plea entertained. That is especially true in the context of this case, which involves a foreign corporate defendant, controlled by another, individual foreign defendant, that has already demanded production of sensitive intelligence gathering, national security, and foreign affairs information.​
Specifically, Mueller’s attorneys asked Trump-appointed Judge Dabney Friedrich to delay Concord Management’s formal arraignment scheduled for next week. Concord Management’s extensive April requests–and Mueller’s pleadings complaining about those requests–are contained in Mueller’s Friday filing

https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/is-robert-muellers-russian-troll-farm-indictment-falling-apart/
---

So why is Mueller trying to circumvent judicial process here?
 

infinitys_7th

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Strange how Mueller's team never leaked this document, but will leak things about Trump's private sex life.

 

dolabla

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This is too funny and bizarre. Doesn't Mueller want a conviction? The judge denied Mueller's request to have it pushed back too. It's either put up or shut up.
 

xStoyax

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Mueller indicts "muh 13 Russians" using open source Buzzfeed, NPR articles, etc
Names 3 companies and their owners based in Russia
Mueller team expects the cases will be uncontested bc WTF, they're in Russia!
SURPRISE!
2 lawyers from Pittsburgh representing one of the 3 companies shows up in DC and appears in court yesterday
Mueller team BTFO
Asks for delays
The excuse Mueller used was: "we sent letters to the Kremlin but we didn't think they got them"
Judge laughs at Mueller - looks over & says defendants are here
Sides with Russian company's lawyers
Mueller now has until this Wednesday, May 9, to put together a case
Good chance case is dropped/thrown out
 

infinitys_7th

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Oct 1, 2006
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Mueller indicts "muh 13 Russians" using open source Buzzfeed, NPR articles, etc
Names 3 companies and their owners based in Russia
Mueller team expects the cases will be uncontested bc WTF, they're in Russia!
SURPRISE!
2 lawyers from Pittsburgh representing one of the 3 companies shows up in DC and appears in court yesterday
Mueller team BTFO
Asks for delays
The excuse Mueller used was: "we sent letters to the Kremlin but we didn't think they got them"
Judge laughs at Mueller - looks over & says defendants are here
Sides with Russian company's lawyers
Mueller now has until this Wednesday, May 9, to put together a case
Good chance case is dropped/thrown out

I wonder if Mueller will illegally raid the Concord's lawyers' offices too?

He's got to do something to justify all those "working dinners" he's expensed on the taxpayers over the past year and a half.
 
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Xiaoki

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Sep 11, 2005
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I wonder if Mueller will illegally raid the Concord's lawyers' offices too?

He's got to do something to justify all those "working dinners" he's expensed on the taxpayers over the past year and a half.
Were these "working dinners" compensation for paying off a porn star Trump had an affair with?

Lets ask Giuliani.
 

infinitys_7th

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Were these "working dinners" compensation for paying off a porn star Trump had an affair with?

Lets ask Giuliani.

Trump used his own money to pay it off, not donated money.

Say what you will about the minor campaign finance paperwork violation, but he didn't steal from anyone.
 

Xiaoki

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Sep 11, 2005
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Trump used his own money to pay it off, not donated money.

Say what you will about the minor campaign finance paperwork violation, but he didn't steal from anyone.
Since when is breaking federal law and committing tax fraud a "minor paperwork violation"?
 

infinitys_7th

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Since when is breaking federal law and committing tax fraud a "minor paperwork violation"?

Plenty of campaigns "break federal law" with regards to campaign finances. It's common, and are generally punished with fines. The same goes with tax fraud - they'll face fines at most. Not filing a 1099 is not noteworthy, and certainly not a high crime or misdemeanor. It is literally a paperwork violation.

It would also mean that Stormy likely did not report the income, so she also committed tax fraud.

It all depends on if he paid off Stormy for political or personal reasons. Part of Mueller's leaks already show that Trump communicated he was concerned about the Steele dossier because of what Melania would think. That can be used as evidence that the personal money sent to Daniels as part of the settlement was for personal reasons.
 

infinitys_7th

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shouldn't we be glad that this is being investigated, just like hillary's emails were investigated, regardless of outcome?

Sure. The government is entitled to its roughly $40,000 in taxes from Daniels, assuming she did not pay it.
 

bucyou

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Oh my. When did this website become the_donald


You are free to step out of your echochamber and debate...

Its lazy to go directly to "oh look theres dissenting opinions here and i dont agree, must be the donald"
 

LegendOfKage

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Oh my. When did this website become the_donald

The difference is if you criticize Donald Trump on the_donald, you'll be promptly banned.

If you defend Donald Trump on certain other forums on the internet, you'll be promptly banned.

If you criticize or defend Donald Trump here, it will result in a discussion.
 

infinitys_7th

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The difference is if you criticize Donald Trump on the_donald, you'll be promptly banned.

If you defend Donald Trump on certain other forums on the internet, you'll be promptly banned.

If you criticize or defend Donald Trump here, it will result in a discussion.

Yep.

Imagine going on r/T_D and complaining about Trump's handling of Iran, putting people like Bolton in defense position (admittedly I want Bolton as UN Ambassador, but mostly for the troll factor in a toothless position), or other actual issues. You'd be banned immediately for "Concern Trolling".

A certain other site has banned all praise of Trump because "Trump's a fascist, and any support for a fascist is supporting fascism". I'm sure they have threads full of Madera love on there, but that's different, of course. Because reasons.
 

KINGMOKU

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shouldn't we be glad that this is being investigated, just like hillary's emails were investigated, regardless of outcome?
Any sitting or running politician should absolutely be investigated for misdeeds and criminal activity, and I don't think anyone who is thinking about the betterment of the country would think otherwise.

You on the other hand, with your "When did this website become..."rhetoric are clearly not interested in adult political discourse, and in making a pretty educated assumption, don't care.

Ill make another assumption(please correct me if I'm wrong)you didn't think the investigation into Clinton's e-mails were necessary and was a political witch hunt on the part of the GOP.

When you enter a thread and the first thing is an accusation, you have already destroyed any credibility you may have had as someone interested in honest political discourse.

Neogaf has become(please excuse the upcoming cheese)the shining light on the hill for honest discussion. We discuss, and have insightful conversations about both sides of the argument, without having to worry about a moderator guiding discussion into an over-moderated, liberal/rightwing hellscape.

No echo chamber, no dog-piling, no obvious bullshit. You want a conversation? Engage in one honestly. Be an adult.
 
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Whataborman

Unconfirmed Member
This is too funny and bizarre. Doesn't Mueller want a conviction? The judge denied Mueller's request to have it pushed back too. It's either put up or shut up.

He probably doesn't care about a conviction. He was given his marching orders from above (i.e. deep state, not Pres. Trump). At this point the whole investigation has gone FUBAR and he's looking to get out of it and move on.
 

LegendOfKage

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Yep.

Imagine going on r/T_D and complaining about Trump's handling of Iran, putting people like Bolton in defense position (admittedly I want Bolton as UN Ambassador, but mostly for the troll factor in a toothless position), or other actual issues. You'd be banned immediately for "Concern Trolling".

It's funny how the right has picked up on the polarizing and conversation destroying logic that the left created. the_donald even uses the same term. Like you said, "Concern trolling." It's at least somewhat ironic that the first place I heard that term was a few years ago on NeoGAF.

What if someone agrees with you for the most part, but disagrees about a certain aspect of your opinion, and would like to point that out or explain why they disagree with you? What if someone understands why you feel the way you do, but ultimately disagrees, and would like to respectfully explain why? What if someone hasn't fully made up their mind on a given topic, and would like to ask why you feel the way you do, and why people who disagree with you are wrong?

CONCERN TROLLING!!! BAN THEM!!!
 
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infinitys_7th

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It's funny how the right has picked up on the polarizing and conversation destroying logic that the left created. the_donald even uses the same term. Like you said, "Concern trolling." It's at least somewhat ironic that the first place I heard that term was a few years ago on NeoGAF.

What if someone agrees with you for the most part, but disagrees about a certain aspect of your opinion, and would like to point that out or explain why they disagree with you? What if someone understands why you feel the way you do, but ultimately disagrees, and would like to respectfully explain why? What if someone hasn't fully made up their mind on a given topic, and would like to ask why you feel the way you do, and why people who disagree with you are wrong?

CONCERN TROLLING!!! BAN THEM!!!

I almost guarantee in a year or so places like T_D will start banning people for "sea lioning" (i.e. inconveniently asking for evidence of claims) like Era has started.

I think the dynamics between these groups is fascinating - they absorb terms from each other and constantly seem to be approaching their polar opposite.

With regard to the extremes, the left grabbed "snowflake", the right grabbed "concern trolling", the left goes puritanical with regards to sex, the right embraces identitarianism.
 

Texas Pride

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This investigation has become an embarrassing shit show that was started under the guise of Russians and has devolved into shit about a porn star and maybe a few other minor things. The left put all their faith in Mueller and like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest it hasn't worked out near how they hoped or expected.
 

404Ender

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This investigation has become an embarrassing shit show that was started under the guise of Russians and has devolved into shit about a porn star and maybe a few other minor things. The left put all their faith in Mueller and like a one legged man in an ass kicking contest it hasn't worked out near how they hoped or expected.

lol

Oh yep just “a few other minor things” like lying to the FBI and conspiracy to defraud the US. And all of the indictments against Russian nationals. Nothing to see here!
 

infinitys_7th

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lol

Oh yep just “a few other minor things” like lying to the FBI and conspiracy to defraud the US. And all of the indictments against Russian nationals. Nothing to see here!

The latter of which Mueller is asking to delay presentation of of, like a high schooler begging his teacher to left him present his history project last.

Also, none of which was related to the Trump campaign.
 
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Whataborman

Unconfirmed Member
The latter of which Mueller is asking to delay presentation of of, like a high schooler begging his teacher to left him present his history project last.

Also, none of which was related to the Trump campaign.


The writing on the wall being that Mueller and his team issued indictments without sufficient (i.e. any) evidence to actually make a case at trial. Now they are scrambling around trying to produce evidence. My bet is that the majority of the people indicted are found not guilty.



It's sad to see how far this place has fallen.


I think this place has improved 100% in the last few months. At least now there can be discussion without fear of getting banned because you said something that goes against the political beliefs of the mods.
 

404Ender

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The latter of which Mueller is asking to delay presentation of of, like a high schooler begging his teacher to left him present his history project last.

Also, none of which was related to the Trump campaign.

So which is it? Is he only allowed to go after Trump people, or only chase Russia things?

Also: how exactly are Papadopoulos, Manafort, Flynn and Gates not related to Trump?
 
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infinitys_7th

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So which is it? Is he only allowed to go after Trump people, or only chase Russia things?

Also: how exactly are Papadopoulos, Manafort, Flynn and Gates not related to Trump?

Because, outside of lying, which in the case of Flynn and potentially others may not have been intentional:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...cal-indications-of-deception-in-michael-flynn

the charges are all for things unrelated to the campaign, such as Manafort's charges from near decade-old dealing with the Podesta Group and Ukraine (all mention of which has been dropped, strangely, after Tony Podesta resigned uncharged). As mentioned, a lot of the charges will probably amount to nothing, as they seem to be nothing more than a tool to look tough for media glamour shots of the investigation. It's a bad look for a prosecutor to go after a lie when nothing of significance was lied about, just like with what happened with Bill Clinton and even Martha Stewart. It looks like a waste of taxpayer funds, particularly when the feds tend to lie their asses off in those interviews themselves to try to eek out a squeak of a lie and use it like a cudgel to intimidate.
 
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rokkerkory

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The most amusing thing is that GOPers going after each other. Nunez now wants to hold Sessions in contempt.

This is getting all sorts of ridiculous. Lol
 

Texas Pride

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lol

Oh yep just “a few other minor things” like lying to the FBI and conspiracy to defraud the US. And all of the indictments against Russian nationals. Nothing to see here!


We were all told he colluded with Russia. This dumbass that people constantly mock as being aloof and senile supposedly colluded with a foreign government to rig the election. That's what we were told by the Democrats. Except to date none of that shit has proven true. And the scope of this circus has expanded beyond the original mandate. Now they're on to anything they can grasp at. Which is rather fucking amusing considering Hillary Clinton took hammers to phones and deleted evidence and that was cool apparently. So save me your self righteousness bullshit okay.
 

pramod

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This thing has been going on over a year so where is the proof Trump colluded with Russians?
 

Autoignition

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Apr 13, 2016
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1. I don't know or trust this source, and anyone with any sort of journalism background can see the bias written within it.
2. I don't know why the Washington Examiner is still allowed to be linked on these boards. You may as well be linking to Breitbart or InfoWars.
3. I don't know why I'm even posting in this thread when the notion that Mueller is being controlled by the Deep State was floated unironically.
4. Stop demanding to see the results of an investigation that has not yet concluded.
5. y'all need Jesus
 

404Ender

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Because, outside of lying, which in the case of Flynn and potentially others may not have been intentional:

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/...cal-indications-of-deception-in-michael-flynn

the charges are all for things unrelated to the campaign, such as Manafort's charges from near decade-old dealing with the Podesta Group and Ukraine (all mention of which has been dropped, strangely, after Tony Podesta resigned uncharged). As mentioned, a lot of the charges will probably amount to nothing, as they seem to be nothing more than a tool to look tough for media glamour shots of the investigation. It's a bad look for a prosecutor to go after a lie when nothing of significance was lied about, just like with what happened with Bill Clinton and even Martha Stewart. It looks like a waste of taxpayer funds, particularly when the feds tend to lie their asses off in those interviews themselves to try to eek out a squeak of a lie and use it like a cudgel to intimidate.

I doubt that guilty pleas to crimes “will probably amount to nothing” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but please by all means keep moving this goal
posts around.

We were all told he colluded with Russia. This dumbass that people constantly mock as being aloof and senile supposedly colluded with a foreign government to rig the election. That's what we were told by the Democrats.

I was never told any of that with any kind of certainty. Sounds like you’ve been following some questionable or sensational sources. The possibility has been raised, which is one of the reasons we have an investigation.

Except to date none of that shit has proven true.

I would be quite shocked if it were true, but you do realize the investigation is still ongoing, right? Why would we know the answer to those questions with certainty already?
 

xStoyax

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The problem, as judge Ellis said, is that most if not all of the work / "investigation" done on Manafort was work PREVIOUSLY DONE by the Eastern District of VA where it was shelved and basically decided not worth bringing a case. Only after the Special counsel was formed was it resurrected, just like they resurrected everyone and everything that they've indicted so far. None of it is "real" in the sense that none of it was "discovered" during their investigation into Trump and Russia. They exceeded the scope by using cases and evidence put together years before Trump ever even ran for office and were considered nothing burgers to prosecutors at the time.

Which brings up the bad faith issue. Even if the Judge declines to rule that Rosenstein broke the law by ordering Mueller to continue a counterintelligence investigation, he's asked the prosecution to demonstrate they've done this whole process in good faith. If they can't, that's grounds for dismissal with prejudice. Either way, Judge Ellis may very well say Mueller never had the authority to impanel a grand jury, which throws out not only the Manafort indictments, but the Gates indictments, the 13 Russian nationals indictments, the Papadoupolous plea bargain, the Dutch guy no one gives a fuck about plea bargain, and the Flynn plea bargain. All of that is suddenly fruit of the poisonous tree.
 

gohepcat

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Hillary Clinton took hammers to phones and deleted evidence and that was cool apparently. So save me your self righteousness bullshit okay.

If I read this one more fucking time I’m going to explode.

Do you know what they do with everyone’s phone at my work before they recycle it? They smash it with a hammer. Do you know that every single phone in every single federal building in the United States get smashed with a hammer at its EOL? You know it’s gonna happen of the president’s phone when the battery dies? It’s going to get smashed with a fucking hammer.

Do you know what they do to every single server hard drive in every single federal building in every single state? They zero the drive seven times and then they smash it with a hammer/Drill three holes in it/shred it.

It’s like the more fucked up things Trump does the more nervously people keep saying “but but but her emails!!!”
 
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way more

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Dumbass, you go where the investigation leads you. Amirox was probably stealing Hustler's Barely Legal series (as we all do) but they found more. Ken Starr got Clinton impeached for drilling his secretary in a case about a land dispute.

You wanna be president? Get prepared to eat shit.
 

pramod

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The judge told Mueller to go pound sand so looks like the proceedings against the Russian troll farms are going to start as scheduled on Wednesday.

Looks like it's put up or shut up time for Mueller. What will he do? Does he actually have the evidence to prove his case?
Now all the Trump supporters be like

 

ProfessorLobo

Banned
Nov 26, 2007
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1. I don't know or trust this source, and anyone with any sort of journalism background can see the bias written within it.
2. I don't know why the Washington Examiner is still allowed to be linked on these boards. You may as well be linking to Breitbart or InfoWars.
3. I don't know why I'm even posting in this thread when the notion that Mueller is being controlled by the Deep State was floated unironically.
4. Stop demanding to see the results of an investigation that has not yet concluded.
5. y'all need Jesus
Hey man, rather than just dismissing that Mueller is an inside agent of the deep state, why not debate it like adults? Looks like you have some growing up to do.
 
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Whataborman

Unconfirmed Member
The judge told Mueller to go pound sand so looks like the proceedings against the Russian troll farms are going to start as scheduled on Wednesday.

Looks like it's put up or shut up time for Mueller. What will he do? Does he actually have the evidence to prove his case?

Short answer: No.

I think you could make a good argument that no crime has even been committed.

Given that these "trolls" were doing the same thing that US citizens all over the political spectrum were doing on social media, I have a hard time thinking that what they did warrants prosecution. To put things in perspective, would it be a crime if I went on Facebook/Twitter to share my opinion of a Canadian political candidate, even if I'm not a Canadian citizen? How about if I created a fake Facebook/Twitter profile to do so? I think most reasonable people would answer no to both of those questions so why is this such a big deal? The number of Russian "trolls" posting information is miniscule compared to the number of US citizens posting similar information. Again, why is this a big deal?

I guess you could make an argument that they failed to register as foreign agents, which is technically illegal but certainly not worth the effort or cost to prosecute.

This whole thing strikes me as Mueller realizing that he has absolutely nothing related to Russian collusion so he pulls these indictments out of his ass, knowing that they likely won't stick. The thought process was probably that they would get some some good press and then could bury the indictments in the legal system for a few years until everyone forgot about the whole mess. The judge is forcing the issue and I think we'll see that there's not much "proof" to back up anything Mueller has done.
 

DasPenguin

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Yes. Nothing of substance has been found.

I don't think anyone would argue that there weren't troll farms in Russia and Macedonia, for example. My country's biggest newspaper actually visited one of those farms in December of 2016 (In Macedonia) and wrote a piece on it.

And I don't think "Well the American citizens do the same thing" argument works, when there are thousands working in these so-called factories and their only job is to cause unrest.
 
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Yeah we've known about these russian troll farms for ages. I can remember the new york times doing a piece on them in the past. They used to be considered a joke but they suddenly became a big problem when Trump won.
 

DasPenguin

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Yeah we've known about these russian troll farms for ages. I can remember the new york times doing a piece on them in the past. They used to be considered a joke but they suddenly became a big problem when Trump won.

Social media reach is bigger now than ever and unfortunately people seem to believe in anything they see online these days. Vaccinations, but her emails...etc.

Instead of regime changes and adding more money to military and defence, America should concentrate on fixing the school system in a way that in the worst high school people are taught and they learn the exact same things as in a private school. That should be the number one priority of the country. If you are really smart and have some bad luck at birth and end up in a bad neighborhood, you can end up at a low paying job even if you do your best because you can't afford to go to a good school. Meanwhile some trustfund baby gets to go to some great college because his father has money and he knows people. There's nothing democratic about that and it most certainly won't lead to having the best and the brightest leading the country.
 
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TrainedRage

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Feb 3, 2018
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If I read this one more fucking time I’m going to explode.

Do you know what they do with everyone’s phone at my work before they recycle it? They smash it with a hammer. Do you know that every single phone in every single federal building in the United States get smashed with a hammer at its EOL? You know it’s gonna happen of the president’s phone when the battery dies? It’s going to get smashed with a fucking hammer.

Do you know what they do to every single server hard drive in every single federal building in every single state? They zero the drive seven times and then they smash it with a hammer/Drill three holes in it/shred it.

It’s like the more fucked up things Trump does the more nervously people keep saying “but but but her emails!!!”
Yep nothing to see here folks. Even though the Clinton campaign was asked to provide those emails and phones BEFORE they were destroyed. But nah, everyone has a government private server running out of a small mom and pop shop. And yeah they are super secure!!! Don't question Hillary!!!
Everyone does this!!!
She dindu nothing!!!
 

DasPenguin

Member
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Yes. Nothing of substance has been found.
Yep nothing to see here folks. Even though the Clinton campaign was asked to provide those emails and phones BEFORE they were destroyed. But nah, everyone has a government private server running out of a small mom and pop shop. And yeah they are super secure!!! Don't question Hillary!!!
Everyone does this!!!
She dindu nothing!!!

And here he comes to prove my point.