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Is the Indie scene really as strong as we think, or just bloated with a small number of standouts?

Jigsaah

Gold Member
I'd argue it's stronger than it has ever been. Given the lack of AAA games coming out as of recent, seeing so many indies with quite a few I'm interested in and some even graphically ambiguous from AAA, I think Indies are in a really good spot right now. You'll always have the shovelware indies, but I think the overall quality and variety is booming right now.
 

Hatsuma

Member
Indie is basically independent developer, it isn't a genre. What has happened though is that for the sake of simplicity, they have all been lumped together.

The quality and budget can vary between high or low. But those games can range between larger budget and quality titles like Control, Kena, or Returnal to UntitledGoose, UnfinishedSwan, or Bloodstained. House Marque is independent, Insomniac was independent until Sony acquired them, Kojima productions is indie, Remedy is a indie, and the remake gods, Bluepoint.

Most associate indies with A games, but forget that publishers can have smaller portions of owned development teams make them as well. All the Indie moniker is a title that the studio isn't owned by a publisher. A lot of Sony's 2nd party games come from famed indie studios. Just as there are low quality AAA, there are low quality indies. The primary reason a majority of indie titles are often A is because that is mainly the cost that studio can afford or perhaps is the highest bar they are striving for.
 
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TheSHEEEP

Gold Member
It's a descriptor saying they got a small budget, staff, and most likely a copy/paste of some other 16-bit game.

Indie is a genre and kind of a bad one.
I understand that you don't know the first thing about video games. Or genres. Or arguments.
What I don't understand is what you are doing on a forum about all of these things.

Maybe you should take up knitting instead?
 
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Some of my favourite games are indie games, doesn't really matter if they're AAA or a one-person team. Outer Wilds was one of my favourite games last gen, but so was AC: Odyssey.
 
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Keihart

Member
I don't know OP, you first talk about production values and the go on to classify games by how known they are...i mean, pick a lane. Indie in general it's used to call low budget games, and there is a low of stuff people would call low budget with a lot of money into it anyway since some of them secure budget after the start up concept. The quality and fame of the product usually have nothing much to do with how much money there is into it unless it's something wrongly labeled like small games from big publishers.

I don't see how it helps making generalizations like indie games are full of shovelware or every triple A game it's derivative, both statements can be true for individual cases and generalizing has no real purpose besides shit talking something.
 

Bogey

Banned
I think most indie games are horrendous, and Pixel art can go fuck right back off to the 80s. So yea, not a big fan of most indie games.

Having said that - valheim and they are billions are some of the very, very few games in the last 10 or so years I really enjoyed.

So even if 99.99 percent of indie games are thoroughly unenjoyable to me, i absolutely love that scene for the 0.01 percent of gems that come out of it!

(and for the others that turn out bad, I think it's at least cool so many people try to make games, when if the end product kind of sucks)
 

Elysion

Banned
I remember when Indie games really started to become a thing at the start of the previous gen, and how people were saying that this would lead to a revival of the ‚AA‘ gaming market that existed on the PS2 and earlier gens. But from what I can tell, this hasn‘t really happened. For example, I thought we would’ve seen a deluge of 3D platformers and action-adventures from small, independent developers by now, but there have been very few of those kinds of games in the last decade. Most Indie stuff seems to be 2D, or mobile, or some online thing, and most of it shouldn‘t even be classified as ‚AA‘. Is it really that hard to make a decent 3D game, even if it only has PS2 level graphics? It seems the VR space is the only area where an ‚AA‘ market actually exists.
 

Indyblue

Member
I think it’s both. The “genre” is bloated af with tons and tons of pure crap games but there are also a lot of great games. If you just stay even mildly connected to the gaming community, you will hear about the good ones.
 

bender

What time is it?
IMO

it's a shit genre trying to sell me half-baked game ideas that I played decades ago and they were 100 times better than the tosh that is released nowadays. That, and its all the same side-scrolling, pixelart arts fartsy shite. Even the odd gem like Monster Train, isn't enough to make up for the rest of the bollox that's released. When I see, read or hear 'indie' I just switch off.

That said, if people enjoy indie games then I'm happy for them.

OT it's a bloated genre with not enough diverse ideas. Where are my point n click adventures, RTS games or RPGs like Phantasy Star?

And here I thought it was a bus accident that Cliff Burton.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
This forum use to be the "place to be" to discuss gaming. People of the industry was here. Nowadays we have this thread with with answer straight out of the edgiest gamefaqs forum.
Nah, the prejudice against “indies” was strong even when GAF was at its peak. 6th- and 7th-gen AAA games changed people’s expectations forever. I kinda understand how someone can’t stomach the look of Celeste when Uncharted came out more than a decade ago. And it’s true that there’s way too many pixel-art games that actually look lower-fi than actual NES games. Still, what matters most is gameplay and design, and there’s plenty “indie” games that can teach a thing or two about that to much bigger studios. Also, it’s not like AAAs are particularly original for the most part these days. I don’t know why people are still buying every Assassin’s Creed game - AC games’ samey nature was already a meme around the launch of Gen 8.

Anyway, grouping “indies” as a genre is as retarded as using “Nintendo“ as a genre. If you only see the pixelly ones (some of which are very good games), then the joke’s on you, because there’s so much more than that.
 
Of course there are much more Indies than AAAs on the market and so the number of crap games is also much higher. But there are many Indies that i prefer over worshipped AAA walking sims or yearly full price updates of generic shooters and sports games so that i can live with the fact that really good Indies are much harder to find than good AAAs.
This.

Nowadays, I see how I find way more games I like among indies, rather than AAA

Katana Zero, Hotline Miami, Golf Club, Punch Club, Hades, Enter The Gungeon...I could literally go on for hours naming masterpieces
And I gladly pay 5-30$ for a complete, fantastic indie rather than 60 or more for a packaged shitty, buggy incomplete beta test
 

Hatsuma

Member
This.

Nowadays, I see how I find way more games I like among indies, rather than AAA

Katana Zero, Hotline Miami, Golf Club, Punch Club, Hades, Enter The Gungeon...I could literally go on for hours naming masterpieces
And I gladly pay 5-30$ for a complete, fantastic indie rather than 60 or more for a packaged shitty, buggy incomplete beta test
Wait, wait. What is DmC 5? A, AA, or AAA? What about Resident Evil 7, 8? What about Evil Within or Doom? Not all AAA games are soulless Ubisoft or EA games.

A or AAs with Indies can be more plentiful because their assets don't require as much time quality or money. Indies don't typically go AAA because they typically cannot afford to. Mega Man 11 is an awesome game, but doesn't have a AAA budget and comes from a large pub.

Indies are just independent developers. Certain genres are associated with them because of economic friendly influence on game design, but indie itself isn't a genre
 
Is "indie" really a genre? I've played and enjoyed a lot of different games in many different genres that are "indie", but of course there is a ton of crap. Basically any non AA or AAA game is "indie".
 

ACESHIGH

Banned
Even if indie is not a genre, I get your point. Indies are a significant part of the industry. My main issue with them and the elephant in the room is that:

Retroarch>>>>>>>> 90% of indie games

For 2d games you just cant beat arcade games and the console games from the 90's. These games were made by folks (japanese for the most part) that had lots of experience with pixel art and game design. And I would gladly take 5th gen era 3d games over most of the indie games we are seeing today. Even if the games are inferior graphically. It doesn't matter. Indie devs are constrained by budget and talent/experience.

I wish we had less indie games but of better production values. Also why indie devs have such a hard on for Metroidvania and Roguelike games? Where are the car combat games, fixed camera survival horror, arcade racing games, fighting games and more.
 
Wait, wait. What is DmC 5? A, AA, or AAA? What about Resident Evil 7, 8? What about Evil Within or Doom? Not all AAA games are soulless Ubisoft or EA games.

A or AAs with Indies can be more plentiful because their assets don't require as much time quality or money. Indies don't typically go AAA because they typically cannot afford to. Mega Man 11 is an awesome game, but doesn't have a AAA budget and comes from a large pub.

Indies are just independent developers. Certain genres are associated with them because of economic friendly influence on game design, but indie itself isn't a genre
Those you listed all are games I loved, the point is: many games launch as a bugfest, some others not, largely dependent from the developer, and only for personal preferences, if I have to make a % for the games I like the most, lately I liked way more indies than regular games
 

Hatsuma

Member
Those you listed all are games I loved, the point is: many games launch as a bugfest, some others not, largely dependent from the developer, and only for personal preferences, if I have to make a % for the games I like the most, lately I liked way more indies than regular games
Oh no, that is fine. I read from your post that you were pegging indie as a genre and that all AAA games were bloated, low quality, or walking sims. I am pegging the bloated to mainly Ubi or EA. Honestly it feels like walking Sims more often come from Indies or smaller teams than AAA. Buggy triple AAA is definitely prevalent with EA, Ubi, and Bethesda. Idk how I forgot them.

I've pretty much said fuck nearly every big western developer
 
Like Bernd Lauert Bernd Lauert said there are literally 1000s of "indie" games released on everything especially Steam's Early Access, and I've already said in a previous thread 99% of indie games are utter garbage that shouldn't have seen the light of day! Most of them I'd compare to the bootleg games of old like Somari (Sonic 8bit bootleg for the Famicom using Mario's sprite hence the name).

"Indie" isn't something I'd use for games that were funded by fans via KS or IGG like Divinity Original Sin/Pillars of Eternity/Mighty No.9/Bloodstained/Shovel Knight/Yooka Laylee, these were games made by veterans who wanted to create throwbacks and games that were no longer funded by big studios/puplishers and had talent and experience.
 

Patrick S.

Banned
Obviously there are exceptions, but generally speaking I've been enjoying "indie" games more in the PS4/Xbone generation than the AAA stuff. I have a theory that what's happened is that as creating AAA games got more and more expensive the entities doing so became more and more corporate they just became more and more risk averse until everything sinks into a featureless grey goo of mediocrity - the people who are willing to take risks are typically successful for a time, then they make something that really bombs and once that happens they get sidelined or pushed out. The end result is that the entire industry becomes full of people that just make the same formulaic shit.

This is an exact parallel of what happened in the movie business - and the fact that a lot of the "interactive entertainment" companies have been infected by the same people that destroyed the movie business does not give me much faith for the future.

This is actually the main reason I am really not bothered about the limited availability of the PS5 and the XSX - the titles on the 8th generation were (IMO) mostly shit, and there is every indication that the 9th generation is just going to proceed further down the same path that made them shit.
Yeah. The "indie" games to me are a welcome return to a more awesome time in gaming where super creative games came out that became classics we fondly remember even thirty years later. In the heyday of the likes of the Amiga, many many games were made by a handful of people in their parent's basement, and they made the games they WANTED to make, and not games dictated by market research or risk analysis. A lot of that creative energy got destroyed as videogames started to lose their reputation of "shit for kids and nerds" and the big publishers snatched up the previously indie developers and stuck them into drawers were they had to make the same game game over and over again, or chase the latest bandwagon with their cashgrabs. Today, I'd much rather give my money to the devs of something like Valheim than give it to EA or Activision for the latest Call of Battlefield they shit out to sell loot boxes and €20 skin sets with.
 

Carna

Banned
In order to get the best out of indies, you need to search hard to find a gem, otherwise the large majority of indies is comparable to nintendo wii shovelware.
 

Ian Henry

Member
I think the indie scene is thriving but I do feel that some of it is filled with bs tbh. An underground scene would be greatly needed to have a sense of creativity and rawness.
 

theclaw135

Banned
The AAA problem goes beyond greed. DLC often disrupts a game's flow, tone, etc. If I'm badgered to pay cash money for some tacky or lewd costume, the writers better consider the possibility I'll wear it. Or how about side missions that ruin the level curve because the designers didn't account for them?
 

StreetsofBeige

Gold Member
One big difference in indie games is XBLIG on 360 had shitloads of games (supposedly 3000), and most were cruddy looking. BUT there were lots of good ones and they were all $1-5. I got tons of $1 ones I'd put up against any $10 XBL Arcade game.

But when they got rid of it and Xbox One's indie scene went back to $10-15 games and then tons of $20-30 indie games. All the great cheap ones disappeared. The closest thing to XBLIG was Creator's Club was the equivalent of XBLIG's worst games for $3.

Looks like we'll never get stuff like I made a game with zombies in it, Zombie Estate, and solid twin stick shooters for $1 ever again.
 
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theclaw135

Banned
As for indies specifically, pixel art is challenge enough to stand out from the pack. I wouldn't want more teams churning out eye bleeding 3D en masse.
 

Shai-Tan

Banned
Bought a lg cx for monitor, 80% of the time end up playing Indy games like Monster Sanctuary, Loop Hero, Monster Train, Synthetik, though some like Hades and Little Nightmares actually look good
 
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