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Is the world ready for $800-$900 consoles?
- Thread starter Celcius
- Start date
Elder Legend
Yoir Aee Member
At that point wouldn't that be kind of outdated? in 2 years we will be halfway through the life cycle of 5090s. Next line of GPUs is in 2024 and then again in 2026.
Hoddi
Member
Not in my view. My 2080 Ti is fast approaching 5 years of age and it's still more than fine at 1440p. I'm kinda starting to feel it at 4k but it's basically just Cyberpunk that's giving me issues.
The 4090 is three times faster than that.
avin
Member
I think you have to be quite specific. What level of performance are you thinking, what would an equivalently priced PC be? At some level, if it's close enough, I suspect most people would rather spend a little - or even a moderate amount - more money, and get a PC they can also use for other things.
avin
Bernardougf
Member
If you build an PS5 PRO for 800 dollars how much would a PC counterpart cost ? At least double if not more ... you would have the sane structure, the same CPU, with a little more memory (in the same speed) and an better GPU of the same kind (3060 to 3090 for example) ... so the arctethure is exactly the same but more powerful.... devs are completely capable of working in the same arctethure and scale things down .. specially first party and thats why we have perfomance and Fidelity modes ... the difference would be better FPS and better RT/assets wich they already do in todays consoles games... sorry cant see bad optimization being an key factor here .. not with the exactly same arctethure.. Im note an engineer or tech savvy so I can be completely wrong..
Bernardougf
Member
I know that people that play regular for years on PC think is pretty easy to build a pc and change your gaming style from consoles.. Cost isnt everything ... PC gaming is not and never will be plug and play as much as consoles are ... there are several different variables in pc gaming...and by the way.. a premium 900 console for exemple with a modern RT capable gpu would cost much more translated to pc counterparts .. old tech cheap gpus on 400 dollars consoles are cheap and easy to replicate... 900 dollars consoles with top of the line gpus (if existed).. not so much I would think
And to strengthen my point.. I have a good amount of money, and could if I really wanted build an 4090 gpu Pc at any time , as i could have build 2090 and 3090 pcs .. but pc gaming is not my thing, and I believe a lot of console players think the same , there is a market for us in the console space ...
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The_Mike
I cry about SonyGaf from my chair in Redmond, WA
With a price point like thy, then there's no reason for a console, and then a PC instead.
Consoles bring cheaper than a PC is one of the strongest points in getting a console.
Why even buy a console at that price when you can get a PC close to that price point, that is literally better at everything and can play pc, ps and Xbox games.
Consoles bring cheaper than a PC is one of the strongest points in getting a console.
Why even buy a console at that price when you can get a PC close to that price point, that is literally better at everything and can play pc, ps and Xbox games.
sendit
Member
You're in a gaming forum. Nothing is a need here. With that said. I'll gladly pay 1000+ for a console that can last several years and is not dated on day 1 of release.
DaGwaphics
Member
All you get is a 3060 ti though. You've got to think that a console that costs this much more than the base model is going to place most of that into the SoC, I think you could expect a better performing system in that case.
Whether or not there would be enough buyers for it is another question, but it should definitely still provide great value for a complete system. As the current systems already do.
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Mr.Phoenix
Member
Nvidia has got peope fooled into believing that new hardware has a business costing as much as they do.
Here's something to chew on.... the PS5 has an APU that's ~320mm2 in size. At 7nm, that puts it at around $110/chip. And thats around what they are paying AMD.
If it were built on a 5nm process,a chip that size would cost around $180.
A 4090, is ~600mm2 in size, so lets say the chip alone cost $360. That RAM and everything else, would cost like another $350. Nvidia is basically selling a GPU that cost them around $700 to make, for $1600.
And that's why people are here thinking that if a PS5pro went to 5nm, and kept the same die size... we would end up with a $900 console.
No, we won't.
Here's something to chew on.... the PS5 has an APU that's ~320mm2 in size. At 7nm, that puts it at around $110/chip. And thats around what they are paying AMD.
If it were built on a 5nm process,a chip that size would cost around $180.
A 4090, is ~600mm2 in size, so lets say the chip alone cost $360. That RAM and everything else, would cost like another $350. Nvidia is basically selling a GPU that cost them around $700 to make, for $1600.
And that's why people are here thinking that if a PS5pro went to 5nm, and kept the same die size... we would end up with a $900 console.
No, we won't.
FearlessBelgian
Member
Big no
grfunkulus
Member
Here was a $700 prebuilt that outperforms the current gen consoles. If you factor in the cost of online multiplayer on the consoles, and the higher price of buying console games in general, you're basically at price parity within a year or so of ownership. And you would've had a PC. Ya know, that does PC stuff. The ps5 digital is kind of the outlier in this equation, in much the same way the $400 Steamdeck was at launch. Both have such a built in advantage by being so heavily subsidized that they're hardly worth comparing though.
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hinch7
Member
Also people are missing another the practicality of having larger and more powerful consoles. And how big these consoles would be if Sony/MS went all on a $800-1000 console. Assuming they went all in a gargantiuan 300-400W APU's they would need a ridiculously large and expensive cooling systems and case to hold them.
Just look at the size of a 4090 and current consoles that only draw upto 210W. We'd have consoles the size of ITX PC's. These things will be too big to fit in a lot of peoples TV units and stands. Not to mention thermal issues that will likely happen in tight spaces where consoles are likely to be crammed in.
Just look at the size of a 4090 and current consoles that only draw upto 210W. We'd have consoles the size of ITX PC's. These things will be too big to fit in a lot of peoples TV units and stands. Not to mention thermal issues that will likely happen in tight spaces where consoles are likely to be crammed in.
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Elder Legend
Yoir Aee Member
How do you think I feel? I am stuck with a 1660 Ti lol. But I feel like at this point better to wait a 5090.
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grfunkulus
Member
The 4080s can be a LOT smaller than the 4090 (it's just the stupid Founder's Edition with it's massively overkill design that they kept to save money). It is one of the most efficient GPUs ever. A downclocked version of it (that loses very little performance) could certainly fit in a ps5 or Xbox One X sized case.
hinch7
Member
Thats the thing AMD hasn't gotten anywhere close to Nvidia's efficiency - at least with RDNA 3 on whats practically the same process node. And I would question whether it is feasable to cram in such a high power GPU with a CPU.
grfunkulus
Member
hinch7
Member
RDNA 2 was full process node ahead using 7nm TSMC and fell short of Ampere performance overall (more if we include the use of Tensor cores) and that was on Samsungs 8nm (equivalent of 10nm TSMC). So far every Ada GPU has completely demolished RDNA 3 on power efficiency. AMD have long way aways on catching up.
In any case fitting a huge APU in console isn't that practical, like at all. My PS5 already takes up so much space. I can't imagine anything bigger on my shelf lol.
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grfunkulus
Member
What? PCs exist and most playstation exclusives are going to eventually get ports to PC now. These architectures scale too. It's not like there are some crazy bespoke engines out there targeting some esoteric hardware. Those days are gone.
Pyral Phoenix
Member
I mean... Why don't I just build a PC then?
People bought condoles cuz they cost 30% of a good PC?
Where is the competitivness?
From where I'm from, people buy consoles cuz they are cheaper than PCs, low end ones.
So again, why?
People bought condoles cuz they cost 30% of a good PC?
Where is the competitivness?
From where I'm from, people buy consoles cuz they are cheaper than PCs, low end ones.
So again, why?
cartman414
Member
Get ready to work 5 jobs bitches.
FireFistAce
Member
Unfortunately, yes. People are ready to pay a lot more for what they used to pay pre-Covid. Look at car prices or electronic devices for example.
dcx4610
Member
It doesn't take much to condition society. If gas is $1 something a gallon, you raise it to $3 and people are thrilled to pay $2. You raise it $5, people are happy to pay $3.
I was considering building another PC. These are just parts to stick inside my current case mind you and the total price? 4 THOUSAND DOLLARS. I remember when $1000 was an incredible rig.
I fully expect $799 consoles next time and people will pay it because...that's just what the price is.
I was considering building another PC. These are just parts to stick inside my current case mind you and the total price? 4 THOUSAND DOLLARS. I remember when $1000 was an incredible rig.
I fully expect $799 consoles next time and people will pay it because...that's just what the price is.
Pimpbaa
Member
Yeah but last gen PS4 Pro had some buffer that helped with image upscaling/reconstruction and the XB1X had an extra 4 gigs of ram, neither which were used much outside of first party titles. Can’t imagine Sony or MS not putting in some fancy new tech in a theoretical current gen refresh.
grfunkulus
Member
You absolutely don't need anywhere close to $4,000 in components, EVEN IF you're starting with an MSRP 4090. A 'killer rig' today is totally overkill for 99% of what is available to play but if you want to go there...picked up an open box 13700k at Microcenter for $300 which is more than enough CPU if you're using the 4090 at its intended resolution--4K. Using my existing Trident Royal 3200mhz DDR 4 RAM, I picked up a open box MSI Z690 MPG Edge WiFi for $200 which works with DDR4 (yes, yes, I know, I should've futured proofed now that better RAM is coming down in price but the Mobos are still expensive and the returns don't justify the high price). I have a noctua tower cooler that cost around $80 but needed a new $10 mounting kit to fit the new socket of the 13700k. Lian Li Mesh 2 cool is the case but you said you already have one so nix that cost. I have an S tier Seasonic Gold 850W PSU that was only $125ish a few years back. PSUs have generally gone up though (probably due to the same BS that allows all of these suppliers to price gauge--higher end GPUs gonna roll down, or more accurately up, to PSU costs). If you really insist on having the 1000 watt version in Platinum, you're looking at around $300. You can easily get away with an 850 if you don't have a ton of extra drives or a 13900k and resist the urge to OC the bejesus outta everything (hardly necessary--in fact, an undervolt on the 13700k makes it a much more efficient 12900k). 4080 seems to undervolt better from my limited research but both don't need 100% power to run at almost 100% performance.
I'm no math wiz but even with a 4090, you're still almost $1k short of $4k. If you're willing to stop just short of cutting edge GPU, you can come in LESS THAN HALF you're proposed figure. Pick up an 6800xt/6900xt for a song ($500-600) or still remain somewhat responsible and get an attractively priced used 3090ti or a new rtx 4070ti, both of which should be better performance to price than the 4080/90.
On a side note, you're right. Just not to the degree you're hyperbolizing. Corporate greed is a thing. Just ask the chickens.
StereoVsn
Member
That's not coming till sometime in 2024. May get a Ti or Super variant this year at most.
Edit: To be fair, rumored PS5 Pro is also supposed to release in 2024.
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grfunkulus
Member
Seems insane to wait given the current prices on last gen GPUs...he can get something to tide you over in the meantime and then wait for Nvidia or AMD to hopefully wake the f' up and create an 80/800xt series card that has better price to performance than the halo card. Shit, sell your Ps5 now if you have one to subsidize the GPU and then get a pro when it comes out. Unless you have a large 4k high refresh rate monitor, a mid-high end last gen gpu is more than enough for high refresh 1440p gaming for several years now. Use the Pro on a nicer monitor. Most people don't have the PC display to service their hardware these days which is sad IMO
PendekarRajawali
Member
Yes, if Apple would release a PS4 level game console.
Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
Cuz my 900 dollar PC will do more than my 900 dollar console.
While still being able to play everything that console can play too.
Hell in theory I wont even need to build a whole new PC I can just use that 900 on a GPU and glide the consoles life cycle with DLSS.
I dont only use my PC for gaming.
CanUKlehead
Member
I already regret paying launch X and PS5 prices considering how little use they get so think that was the last time I pay for consoles anywhere near launch price.
But that has more to do with adult responsibilities clashing with gaming time and cost. If I had the time and money, whatever.
But that has more to do with adult responsibilities clashing with gaming time and cost. If I had the time and money, whatever.
Rhazkul
Member
The cheap entry cost of consoles is one of the major reasons why they are so attractive (the followup costs are often ignored, but pretty hefty if you do the math: peripherals, monthly fees for online gaming, store fronts not really sale friendly). For nearly 1k you can get a decent mid-tier PC, and i personally would always get the PC over a limited and heavily restricted console. It would be really stupid to drop that amount for console, which can't be upgraded, has paywalls for online gaming and is a closed system overall.
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Black_Stride
do not tempt fate do not contrain Wonder Woman's thighs do not do not
And assuming IPC doesnt massively increase, at the next graphical fidelity bump, you theoretically only need to buy a new GPU not an entire new system.
I know people still swimming through the generation with 8th 9th and 10th Gen CPUs.
You can make PC games secure but people tend to hate that too since it usually means more difficulty modding or DRM that people complain about. Creating a playground for everyone is difficult.
BlitzerRadic
Member
Plenty of people were paying up to $1000 for a regular PS5 not too long ago. So of course there is a market for people who would pay $900 for an enhanced console no problem. Not everyone is a broke ass like some people in this thread lol
Zuzu
Member
Yep, I’d be willing to purchase a high cost console. I don’t agree with numerous arguments against them in this thread. The argument that you might as well buy a PC fails imo. A $900 PC would likely be significantly weaker than a $900 console just as a $500 PC is generally significantly weaker than a $500 console (at initial release). Therefore, the bang-for-buck or value proposition of console gaming would still be an attractive feature for purchasing the premium console over a PC for those with the money. You would get more for your $900 in the premium console option than you would in a similarly priced PC. Additionally, the buyer still receives the benefits of console gaming such an integrated, streamlined and convenient gaming system which is quick and easy to purchase and tailored towards a lounge room experience.
The argument that console gaming exists to provide a low cost of entry to gaming also fails. Why should console gaming only provide a low cost of entry? Why can’t it provide both a low cost of entry option (i.e. in the base consoles) and a premium option? If there is a strong business case for selling a premium console then why not do it? As long as the business case is there, then opposing it on the basis that console gaming has always been aimed at the lower end of the market is just an argument from tradition. But tradition isn’t sacrosanct; tradition can be broken and should be if a premium console is what the market wants.
The argument that a premium console would split the market and that this is undesirable is fairly weak imo. Why does it matter if the market is split? The PC market is also split. Some people play on RTX 2060s and some people play on RTX 4090s. With regards to single player games, as long as the game is designed to scale well across the different systems then users will receive an experience commensurate with their system just as in PC gaming. If a game is optimised well to play on both the base console and the pro console then there shouldn’t be any problem. This occurred last generation with the PS4 and PS4 Pro and didn’t seem to have any detrimental effect on console gaming.
Perhaps a stronger argument can be made that a split console user base harms multiplayer gaming because those playing on a premium console could receive a competitive advantage due to the better performance of their system. This may be true, but for better or worse this has already been largely implemented with the widespread adoption of crossplay. Due to crossplay, the cat is already out of the bag, so a premium console is unlikely to add any more to the competitive disadvantage problem that already exists due to PC players, current gen console players and last gen console players all playing together already via crossplay. Furthermore, most multiplayer gamers are casual and not very skilled so the performance gains that they would gain or lose based on the hardware they’re playing on is unlikely to significantly effect their skillset or the experience they have playing multiplayer games.
The argument that console gaming exists to provide a low cost of entry to gaming also fails. Why should console gaming only provide a low cost of entry? Why can’t it provide both a low cost of entry option (i.e. in the base consoles) and a premium option? If there is a strong business case for selling a premium console then why not do it? As long as the business case is there, then opposing it on the basis that console gaming has always been aimed at the lower end of the market is just an argument from tradition. But tradition isn’t sacrosanct; tradition can be broken and should be if a premium console is what the market wants.
The argument that a premium console would split the market and that this is undesirable is fairly weak imo. Why does it matter if the market is split? The PC market is also split. Some people play on RTX 2060s and some people play on RTX 4090s. With regards to single player games, as long as the game is designed to scale well across the different systems then users will receive an experience commensurate with their system just as in PC gaming. If a game is optimised well to play on both the base console and the pro console then there shouldn’t be any problem. This occurred last generation with the PS4 and PS4 Pro and didn’t seem to have any detrimental effect on console gaming.
Perhaps a stronger argument can be made that a split console user base harms multiplayer gaming because those playing on a premium console could receive a competitive advantage due to the better performance of their system. This may be true, but for better or worse this has already been largely implemented with the widespread adoption of crossplay. Due to crossplay, the cat is already out of the bag, so a premium console is unlikely to add any more to the competitive disadvantage problem that already exists due to PC players, current gen console players and last gen console players all playing together already via crossplay. Furthermore, most multiplayer gamers are casual and not very skilled so the performance gains that they would gain or lose based on the hardware they’re playing on is unlikely to significantly effect their skillset or the experience they have playing multiplayer games.
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TheRedRiders
Member
Graphics card are going for over a thousand dollars, lower range are $750.
Mobile phones are $1000
But the idea of a console being $7-800 and everyone loses their mind.
Mobile phones are $1000
But the idea of a console being $7-800 and everyone loses their mind.
Kokoloko85
Member
Nah. Pro edition maybe. But not the main base console.
GreatnessRD
Member
Sure it shit it would sell out in minutes. I don't ever plan to buy another console ever again and I'd be the first one in line for this one, lmao!
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