Is There Any Fanservice In Western Games For Straight Men Anymore?

ArchaeEnkidu

Vincit qui se vincit
Jan 30, 2018
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Yes, this isn't condescending or antagonistic at ALL.
It isn't. It is an observation based on routine evidence shown by the user in question. They come from a known echo chamber and have refused to have a discussion (something you at least have the decency to attempt). The one who has been routinely condescending and confrontational has been you, mate.

Also what @Sqorin Hammerfarf said.
 
Dec 3, 2018
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Personally, I don't want sexiness to go away in video games. I just want it to have a narrative and a purpose in-lore which makes sense.
And I don't. Fight me.

I will never complain about the sex scenes in Bioware games or the Witcher, for example, because they fit the narrative.
There is a lot to complain about with the sex scenes in Bioware games.

If Lara Croft was in a game dressed like this, it would rub me the wrong way ...
Phrasing...

… because for the life of me, I cannot imagine someone exploring an ancient tomb dressed like that.
Ah, I see. The problem is that you lack imagination.

Narrative, that's all I'm asking for, to suspend my disbelief.
In what way do these games not have narrative? Senran Kagura, for example, has narrative reasons for everything being the way it is. Within its world, it makes sense that you beat the clothes off them because their costume is a psychic representation of their willpower. Similarly, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't Quiet breathe through her skin? There's a narrative reason right there, though you apparently don't accept it.
 
Nov 13, 2013
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The only people that care enough to complain about fan service are the ones that's looking for it the most. So if you're looking THAT bad go look at porn which is what it's meant for.

And for all the 'Oh, I need to look a something of beauty' well that's certainly possible. You can totally have a beautiful character model that's not scantily clad/dressed. One example in this thread mentioned something about Lara Croft, who is beautiful to me, but why on earth does she need to be 'fan serviced' out the *ss just to please people who want to get their rocks off?

You want to look at a model that's half dressed or with barely any clothes on, there's other venues for that. If the story doesn't call for it why should it be in the game? They have other markets for you 'fan service' individuals.
 
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The point of games are to play them and get immersed in the story, not to lust over graphical shapes and figures to get your rocks off or whatever it is. To me they are both one in the same. You want to complain about a game being bad cool, but to complain about NOT having fan service is dumb to me. Go watch some exciting stuff like PORN* if that's how you feel.
We've already been through this. "Larger than life" plays a huge factor in entertainment. If Captain America was played by an out of shape manlet as was Thor, nobody would go watch the movies, especially not women. Mark Ruffalo works as Hulk because of the strong contrast between the man and the beast. Downey Jr. also works because while he's very charismatic, his business is dealt through a super robot. If Iron Man, the machine, was 170cm tall, people would take him as comic relief.

When you're on tv playing a character, you represent an ideal of beauty people would want to self-insert as, they would love to be Captain America or Black Widow.
When you create mediocre looking men and women in videogames, theoretically you're doing it with this mindset: "oh he looks just like me, I feel like I'm him going through those adventures", but that's not how it works at all. The media kept pretending the new Lara is an icon. There's only one Lara and it's the one from the original saga. The new Lara is too bland and not over the top to leave a lasting impression.

Looks play a big role in making a character memorable: look at STARS in Resident Evil and their tacky gear. People loved it because it was corny and memorable like for a superhero, despite trying to be grounded in real life logic. The new Claire is dressed like any generic boring real life person, the old Claire outfit looked very "hick" in a way you'd actually want to cosplay as. It'll take effort to tell who's cosplaying as Claire at the next comic convention.

The only people that care enough to complain about fan service are the ones that's looking for it the most. So if you're looking THAT bad go look at porn which is what it's meant for.

And for all the 'Oh, I need to look a something of beauty' well that's certainly possible. You can totally have a beautiful character model that's not scantily clad/dressed. One example in this thread mentioned something about Lara Croft, who is beautiful to me, but why on earth does she need to be 'fan serviced' out the *ss just to please people who want to get their rocks off?

You want to look at a model that's half dressed or with barely any clothes on, there's other venues for that. If the story doesn't call for it why should it be in the game? They have other markets for you 'fan service' individuals.


Focus on 2002 and 2012. You could give me a naked version of the 2012 version and I'd still take the top one. Edit: more on the subject.
 
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It isn't. It is an observation based on routine evidence shown by the user in question. They come from a known echo chamber and have refused to have a discussion (something you at least have the decency to attempt). The one who has been routinely condescending and confrontational has been you, mate.

Also what @Sqorin Hammerfarf said.
It's called a discussion, which we are all having. If I'm offending anyone then that means somewhere a chord* was struck. I personally don't care for it, and I gave my opinion just as everyone else did*.
 
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Tell me that this particular scene (and almost all of the camera shots) isn't made for any other reason other than to titillate the male player. Say it to my face.


Am I being condescending for thinking scenes like these are made with a hormone-filled teenager in mind? Am I being confrontational for saying content like that is juvenile? First and foremost, I judged the content, which is my right to do so. If that made me sound as superior, I humbly apologize.

I don't think I ever said that someone is juvenile for watching it - if I did, correct me. I love Dragon Ball, which is a show aimed for kids. Should I consider you condescending if you say that 'Dragon Ball is for kids'? It's the truth! If non-kids watch it, more power to them, but that doesn't change the fact that the target demographic *are* 10-year olds. Kids.
Lesbians and straight women like Quiet too though.
 
Apr 18, 2018
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You want to look at a model that's half dressed or with barely any clothes on, there's other venues for that. If the story doesn't call for it why should it be in the game? They have other markets for you 'fan service' individuals.
Do you also believe minorities shouldn't be included in a game unless the story "calls for it"? Because that's the argument I've heard from some gamers, that the inclusion of token minorities and token sexual-expressions is unnecessary because the story doesn't "call for it".

There's no need to set up your own arbitrary moral standard for what should or shouldn't be a in a game. If the game has scantily-clad women, then it has scantily clad women. There's no objective standard that can be followed to determine when it is or isn't appropriate for them to be included because at that point you're defining what does (and doesn't) fall under artistic expression.
 
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And I don't. Fight me.


There is a lot to complain about with the sex scenes in Bioware games.


Phrasing...


Ah, I see. The problem is that you lack imagination.


In what way do these games not have narrative? Senran Kagura, for example, has narrative reasons for everything being the way it is. Within its world, it makes sense that you beat the clothes off them because their costume is a psychic representation of their willpower. Similarly, if I'm not mistaken, doesn't Quiet breathe through her skin? There's a narrative reason right there, though you apparently don't accept it.
Of course I don't accept it. In the same way that I don't accept that Cortana is naked so that she can 'distract her debaters and gain the upper hand'. And I said, 'narrative that makes sense'. Kojima's explanation is pitiful and I stand by my claim.

What the heck does imagination has to do with a woman exploring an unknown Amazonian temple wearing only a bikini? What kind of logic is that?

And no, we won't fight - sorry. :)
 
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Do you also believe minorities shouldn't be included in a game unless the story "calls for it"? Because that's the argument I've heard from some gamers, that the inclusion of token minorities and token sexual-expressions is unnecessary because the story doesn't "call for it".

There's no need to set up your own arbitrary moral standard for what should or shouldn't be a in a game. If the game has scantily-clad women, then it has scantily clad women. There's no objective standard that can be followed to determine when it is or isn't appropriate for them to be included because at that point you're defining what does (and doesn't) fall under artistic expression.
Agreed. While I said time and again, just because I don't like the way Kojima handled Quiet's design and scenes, doesn't mean that I don't want anyone else to enjoy it for what it is. Nor do I consider myself better for not liking Quiet's design. I simply don't like it.
 
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Do you also believe minorities shouldn't be included in a game unless the story "calls for it"? Because that's the argument I've heard from some gamers, that the inclusion of token minorities and token sexual-expressions is unnecessary because the story doesn't "call for it".

There's no need to set up your own arbitrary moral standard for what should or shouldn't be a in a game. If the game has scantily-clad women, then it has scantily clad women. There's no objective standard that can be followed to determine when it is or isn't appropriate for them to be included because at that point you're defining what does (and doesn't) fall under artistic expression.
Do you know the definition of fan service? If no, look it up. That's what I'm talking about.

Standards exist for a reason, the word means something. I'd also recommend you google that word too.

Fan Service adds no value to a game and in some cases doesn't subtract any value either. If it's going to be done it should be done tastefully or in other words the story should call for it. Having fan service in a game for the sake of EYE CANDY is dumb to me and I personally don't find any appeal to it.
 
Dec 3, 2013
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More power to them. And I'm pretty sure that there are also lesbians and straight women who don't like her. As also gay and straight men who don't like her. As also gay and straight men who do like her.

This doesn't prove or disprove anything.
And we've come full circle. The artist should be allowed to do what they want, if people don't like it, don't play it.
 
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And we've come full circle. The artist should be allowed to do what they want, if people don't like it, don't play it.
Agreed 100%. Kojima should be free to do whatever the heck he likes, and people should be free to like or dislike his work without being called SJWs, NPCs, T&A Addicts, Masturbators or whatever other derogatory term the opposing 'team' thinks of.
 
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Looks play a big role in making a character memorable: look at STARS in Resident Evil and their tacky gear. People loved it because it was corny and memorable like for a superhero, despite trying to be grounded in real life logic. The new Claire is dressed like any generic boring real life person, the old Claire outfit looked very "hick" in a way you'd actually want to cosplay as. It'll take effort to tell who's cosplaying as Claire at the next comic convention.





Focus on 2002 and 2012. You could give me a naked version of the 2012 version and I'd still take the top one. Edit: more on the subject.
Jill Valentine in the (fingers crossed) upcoming Resident Evil III remake (once RE2 has been a huge hit) will be a work of art & earn the title of waifu supreme. That's inevitable based upon the timeline of the game & the outfits which even with the funny rudimentary pixel count at the time were hot as f. She'll be even sexier if she lands on next gen. Puritans & regressives be warned, i.e. an RE3 Remake Jill will be the fanservice all male gamers deserve.
 
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Do you know the definition of fan service? If no, look it up. That's what I'm talking about.

Standards exist for a reason, the word means something. I'd also recommend you google that word too.

Fan Service adds no value to a game and in some cases doesn't subtract any value either. If it's going to be done it should be done tastefully or in other words the story should call for it. Having fan service in a game for the sake of EYE CANDY is dumb to me and I personally don't find any appeal to it.
Define "no value".

Define "done tastefully"

Define when a "story should call for it".

Define what characteristics determine when fan service is EYE CANDY and when it doesn't.

Please don't haughtily tell me to look up words and then spew a bunch of undefined garbage. It's juvenile and makes you look incapable of holding an adult discussion.

I look forward to your contribution to the thread with your esteemed definitions of the standards you are hanging over everyone else's heads.
 
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Jill Valentine in the (fingers crossed) upcoming Resident Evil III remake (once RE2 has been a huge hit) will be a work of art & earn the title of waifu supreme. That's inevitable based upon the timeline of the game & the outfits which even with the funny rudimentary pixel count at the time were hot as f. She'll be even sexier if she lands on next gen. Puritans & regressives be warned, i.e. an RE3 Remake Jill will be the fanservice all male gamers deserve.
I just hope they cast someone who will make her look awesome.
 
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Agreed 100%. Kojima should be free to do whatever the heck he likes, and people should be free to like or dislike his work without being called SJWs, NPCs, T&A Addicts, Masturbators or whatever other derogatory term the opposing 'team' thinks of.
I can't argue there, my line gets drawn when people want to control the artist's work.
 
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I can't argue there, my line gets drawn when people want to control the artist's work.
Here's a case that rubbed me the wrong way.

I think it was … Bloodstained, the spiritual successor of the old Castlevania games. The creator said that originally the protagonist was a guy but afterwards they decided to turn him into a girl. When they did that, they also decided they should change the backstory, because the male protagonist had a really tough time with torment, imprisonment and abuse, and they were afraid that if the girl heroine had the same past, some people would find it offensive. ANd they changed it.

Fucking. Galbrush. Syndrome. Fuck it. To Hell.
 
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Tell me that this particular scene (and almost all of the camera shots) isn't made for any other reason other than to titillate the male player. Say it to my face.
I will say it to your face then, it was (probably) put there to titillate the male player. How does that negate what I said? I don't deny that, and you are the one who has a problem with it, not me. Why you think is so horrible to titilate men is beyond me. Live and let live.

Am I being condescending for thinking scenes like these are made with a hormone-filled teenager in mind? Am I being confrontational for saying content like that is juvenile? First and foremost, I judged the content, which is my right to do so
You can judge the content all you want, but calling an adult a hormone-filled teenage boy and some of the other things you have said is being judgemental and condescending towards those who play these games, not like that was my point either, what I said was that is not the way to have an argument, you don't seem to want an argument, you seem to want to judge the poeple who play those games, not the content itself.

Even Geralt going to a brothel because he needs to see some ass. Excellent, no problems there - it fits. The story.
I notice that you focus a lot in story, narrative, lore and the fact that it needs to "make sense" for it to be "allowed". First, the same porn argument could apply, if you want story read a book. Second, what if I don't care about the story and just want gameplay, can I just have something nice too look at while I, you know, play the game; story and narrative and lore are not the only thing video games are for, case in point fighting games, I could care less what the characters are wearing as long as I can pull some sick combos on some salty fools, point is, what we want out of video games is subjective, that's no reason to be so judgemetal about how I decide to enjoy my entertainment products in the privacy of my own home without hurting anybody. Yes, that includes Quiet dancing in the rain.
 
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I will say it to your face then, it was (probably) put there to titillate the male player. How does that negate what I said? I don't deny that, and you are the one who has a problem with it, not me. Why you think is so horrible to titilate men is beyond me. Live and let live.



You can judge the content all you want, but calling an adult a hormone-filled teenage boy and some of the other things you have said is being judgemental and condescending towards those who play these games, not like that was my point either, what I said was that is not the way to have an argument, you don't seem to want an argument, you seem to want to judge the poeple who play those games, not the content itself.



I notice that you focus a lot in story, narrative, lore and the fact that it needs to "make sense" for it to be "allowed". First, the same porn argument could apply, if you want story read a book. Second, what if I don't care about the story and just want gameplay, can I just have something nice too look at while I, you know, play the game; story and narrative and lore are not the only thing video games are for, case in point fighting games, I could care less what the characters are wearing as long as I can pull some sick combos on some salty fools, point is, what we want out of video games is subjective, that's no reason to be so judgemetal about how I decide to enjoy my entertainment products in the privacy of my own home without hurting anybody. Yes, that includes Quiet dancing in the rain.
Why are you doing this? Why do you believe that I somehow judge how YOU wish to be entertained? Why do you seem to think that I believe that what I enjoy in gaming and pop culture in general should be the be-all end-all for everyone else?

What I keep explaining are the reasons I am personally put off by unnecessary (for my standards) sexiness. In gaming, movies, comics, animation. I do NOT wish everyone to have the same standards as me. I do NOT think that my standards are better than anyone else's. That's insane. It's like thinking that if I like cheesecake, everyone else is wrong for not liking it. I never said, implied or condoned such attitude. I said, time and again, that I do not wish Kojima to change his style. I'm merely explaining why I PERSONALLY do not like it.

Of course people have different reasons for seeing movies, play games, listen to music and anything else. I like to analyze movies and talk about plot all the time. Other people hear me and simply roll their eyes because for them the fun begins with the title and ends with the credits. Who is right? No one. Who is wrong? No one.

Voicing my disapproval of a particular trait in something =/= wanting to take it away from or change it for anyone else.
 
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Of course I don't accept it. In the same way that I don't accept that Cortana is naked so that she can 'distract her debaters and gain the upper hand'. And I said, 'narrative that makes sense'. Kojima's explanation is pitiful and I stand by my claim.
I haven't played MGSV, but I have played other MGS games, and if you are choosing "narrative that makes sense" in connection with Kojima, I have to wonder if you've ever played a Kojima game? Quiet's back story is perfectly in line with the weird stupid shit that Kojima comes up with. Expecting his narrative to make sense is like expecting man eating monsters to give up eating men.

As for Cortana, I haven't played anything past Halo 3, but I never had a problem with it because the human body is only disgusting if you make it disgusting. Narratively, since Cortana isn't making it disgusting, and nobody else around her is making it disgusting, so then why are you? It's like going to a nudist colony and going, "you sick fucks" - you're the one making it weird, not them.

What the heck does imagination has to do with a woman exploring an unknown Amazonian temple wearing only a bikini? What kind of logic is that?
You said you couldn't imagine a reason why. I can imagine about two dozen, ranging from "oh, sure, okay" to "well, that's a stretch" to "only 5 people would ever agree with that, and not the well adjusted 5 people".

But if you need a reason why she would wear a bikini, I assume you also need an explanation about why the space ships in Star Wars make sound in the vacuum of space, what kind of plumbing credentials Mario has, and the motivation for why 100 people are dropping on the Fortnite island to kill each other. The fact is, you are being selective about what you take issue with. It's not about the narrative. It never was. It's about a sense of propriety being violated, not realizing that video games are not real life, so what is proper in them is a much broader spectrum of okay.
 
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But if you need a reason why she would wear a bikini, I assume you also need an explanation about why the space ships in Star Wars make sound in the vacuum of space, what kind of plumbing credentials Mario has, and the motivation for why 100 people are dropping on the Fortnite island to kill each other. The fact is, you are being selective about what you take issue with. It's not about the narrative. It never was. It's about a sense of propriety being violated, not realizing that video games are not real life, so what is proper in them is a much broader spectrum of okay.
If Star Wars tells me that Jedis can jump 10 feet high, I accept it as lore. If there is a scene where a jedi jumps 20 ft without an explanation, I consider it a plot hole and it lessens my enjoyment.

If a Tomb Raider game would give me a convincing explanation as to why Lara would enter a tomb wearing a bikini, I'd take it. And no, her luggage was stolen ten minutes ago isn't a good explanation; it's an excuse to show her half-naked.

Yes, I'm a sucker for solid narrative. What can I do?
 
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If Star Wars tells me that Jedis can jump 10 feet high, I accept it as lore. If there is a scene where a jedi jumps 20 ft without an explanation, I consider it a plot hole and it lessens my enjoyment.
So then, space ships making sound in the vacuum of space is a plot hole that lessens your enjoyment too, right?

If a Tomb Raider game would give me a convincing explanation as to why Lara would enter a tomb wearing a bikini, I'd take it. And no, her luggage was stolen ten minutes ago isn't a good explanation; it's an excuse to show her half-naked.
Which Tomb Raider specifically had her going around in a bikini (where it wasn't an optional, out of game unlockable)? Tomb Raider 2 has her in a wetsuit when exploring the sunken ship, and at the beginning of TR Underworld, I think, she starts in a wetsuit, but that narratively makes sense because the place she was going was located underwater.
 
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Tell me that this particular scene (and almost all of the camera shots) isn't made for any other reason other than to titillate the male player. Say it to my face.


Am I being condescending for thinking scenes like these are made with a hormone-filled teenager in mind? Am I being confrontational for saying content like that is juvenile? First and foremost, I judged the content, which is my right to do so. If that made me sound as superior, I humbly apologize.

I don't think I ever said that someone is juvenile for watching it - if I did, correct me. I love Dragon Ball, which is a show aimed for kids. Should I consider you condescending if you say that 'Dragon Ball is for kids'? It's the truth! If non-kids watch it, more power to them, but that doesn't change the fact that the target demographic *are* 10-year olds. Kids.
First of all so fucking what? Especially the Quiet scene is also part of her psyche. She acts like a child during this scene she has some serious psychological problems? And you know what Quiet fits perfectly in the sexualized world Kojima has created. There is nothing odd about Quiet being in the game at all. IF you do not like her more power to you. I thought she was the best written Character in MGSV.

Also Dragonball and DBZ are full of pervert moments. Be it the manga or the Anime. The perception of sexualization in a country which sexualizes fucking everything. Should not be a matter of western taste. If you do not like it. Do not play/watch it. But do not tell Japanese people how they should behave and what art they should create. No one wants western Imperialism in Japan anymore.
 
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First of all so fucking what? Especially the Quiet scene is also part of her psyche. She acts like a child during this scene she has some serious psychological problems? And you know what Quiet fits perfectly in the sexualized world Kojima has created. There is nothing odd about Quiet being in the game at all. IF you do not like her more power to you. I thought she was the best written Character in MGSV.

Also Dragonball and DBZ are full of pervert moments. Be it the manga or the Anime. The perception of sexualization in a country which sexualizes fucking everything. Should not be a matter of western taste. If you do not like it. Do not play/watch it. But do not tell Japanese people how they should behave and what art they should create. No one wants western Imperialism in Japan anymore.
Am I … am I not speaking English? When I say that I do not want an artist / creator to change something just because I don't like it, does that somehow translates into 'I want them to change it'?

So then, space ships making sound in the vacuum of space is a plot hole that lessens your enjoyment too, right?


Which Tomb Raider specifically had her going around in a bikini (where it wasn't an optional, out of game unlockable)? Tomb Raider 2 has her in a wetsuit when exploring the sunken ship, and at the beginning of TR Underworld, I think, she starts in a wetsuit, but that narratively makes sense because the place she was going was located underwater.
I was making a hypothetical example. I know not whether a Tomb Raider game has her in a bikini.

As for ships making sound in Star Wars, it wasn't something I really thought about. There are a few articles claiming that sound exists in space, just not audible to us humans. Pretty sure that some die-hard scientists must have face-palmed at the situation you describe for being ridiculous and unrealistic. Didn't really bother me.
 
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Do you know the definition of fan service? If no, look it up. That's what I'm talking about.

Standards exist for a reason, the word means something. I'd also recommend you google that word too.

Fan Service adds no value to a game and in some cases doesn't subtract any value either. If it's going to be done it should be done tastefully or in other words the story should call for it. Having fan service in a game for the sake of EYE CANDY is dumb to me and I personally don't find any appeal to it.
Fan service isn't always about sex though. Like unlocking Ryu Hayabusa's original blue Ninja Gaiden outfit from his arcade/NES days in a DOA game, while may be "dumb eyecandy" to you, is really cool to long time Ninja Gaiden fans and will bring a smile to their face. Is unlocking an old school Lara Croft outfit in a modern Tomb Raider game really that bad????

Video games are a form of escapism. If I want a healthy dose of reality, I can head on down to Wal-Mart to see how everyday people look. In a video game though, unless the narrative in a game calls for a specific type of character, I want to play a character who is cool and visually appealing.

Yes, I find hardcore sexualized fanservice to be borderline creepy and not for me, but I also find hardcore SJW's to be borderline totalitarian puritans and a little creepy and puerile in their thought process as well.
 
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Why are you doing this? Why do you believe that I somehow judge how YOU wish to be entertained? Why do you seem to think that I believe that what I enjoy in gaming and pop culture in general should be the be-all end-all for everyone else?
I never said you can't have opinions or that I think you're trying to impose anything, my point simply was stop being so judgemental TOWARDS other people for the things they like, not everyone enjoying these games are hormone-bursting teenage boys, and I bet even them would prefer to watch porn anyway instead of being teased by mildly arousing polygons.

Nickolaidas said:
Yes, I'm a sucker for solid narrative. What can I do?
Read a book.
 
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I never said you can't have opinions or that I think you're trying to impose anything, my point simply was stop being so judgemental TOWARDS other people for the things they like, not everyone enjoying these games are hormone-bursting teenage boys, and I bet even them would prefer to watch porn anyway instead of being teased by mildly arousing polygons.
Which is exactly why I used the Dragon Ball example a few posts above. While a product does have a target demographic, that doesn't mean that people outside the demographic can't enjoy said product. But said people shouldn't think that someone else claiming the product is mostly intended for a target demographic, those outside the target demographic BECOME the target demographic.
 
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Which is exactly why I used the Dragon Ball example a few posts above. While a product does have a target demographic, that doesn't mean that people outside the demographic can't enjoy said product. But said people shouldn't think that someone else claiming the product is mostly intended for a target demographic, those outside the target demographic BECOME the target demographic.
That's why you are being judgemental and condescending? Because you are better than the intended demographic? gotcha. God forbid you're seen as part of the horny teenage demographic, no, you're better than all of us.
 
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That's why you are being judgemental and condescending? Because you are better than the intended demographic? gotcha. God forbid you're seen as part of the horny teenage demographic, no, you're better than all of us.
… what?! When did I - you know what? I'm not doing this. Believe what you want.

One last thing: You DO realize that the Dragonball example was used on myself, right?
 
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I support people enjoying fantasy characters however they like. I support game devs making games however they want to, and not including or excluding something because of social pressure. Games are for everyone, and everyone should be able to support (or not support) any niche they please. I think the real conversation to be had is treating real people with real respect.
 
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Fan service isn't always about sex though. Like unlocking Ryu Hayabusa's original blue Ninja Gaiden outfit from his arcade/NES days in a DOA game, while may be "dumb eyecandy" to you, is really cool to long time Ninja Gaiden fans and will bring a smile to their face. Is unlocking an old school Lara Croft outfit in a modern Tomb Raider game really that bad????
Fan Service can be non-sexual yes, but the context used in this thread or by OP (as I interpreted) is sexual 'Fan Service'. So that's the point I'm targeting and Fan Service is almost usually and mutually depicted as such. One poster broguht up race, like WHAT?! Lol, go look up the definiton first cause I'm not gonna go back and forth about that one buddy.

Video games are a form of escapism. If I want a healthy dose of reality, I can head on down to Wal-Mart to see how everyday people look. In a video game though, unless the narrative in a game calls for a specific type of character, I want to play a character who is cool and visually appealing.

Yes, I find hardcore sexualized fanservice to be borderline creepy and not for me, but I also find hardcore SJW's to be borderline totalitarian puritans and a little creepy and puerile in their thought process as well.
I can agree with the last bit of what you wrote because it sounds like you also agree with what I said about it being done tastefully or if the story calls for it. That's a good balance; not too far left or right which is what I was getting at. I definitely dislike the hardcore stuff and I stand firm on that one. Video games is certainly a way to escape life for sure, but you do that through immersion and story. That's the point of them; to tell a story. If the story calls for fan service via romance options okay cool, I'm okay with that. What I'm not okay with is a character half naked in the mountains like, 'where are your clothes? It's cold out here!' that's immersion breaking for me; doesn't make sense.

Like I said, I game for immersion and story, not for Fan Service in a sexualized way (to be EXTRA clear for the Fan Service SJWs)*. It never appealed to me and I don't get why people complain if it's NOT in games. IMHO, those that complain about it NOT being in games are the ones on the far end of the specturm. That's hella creepy to me.
 
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IMHO, those that complain about it NOT being in games are the ones on the far end of the specturm. That's hella creepy to me.
People are not complaining just for the hell of it, there's a reason and you know it, it's the exact same you quoted, there's fear of backlash and social pressure that almost forces media to be sanitized at the behest of the loud minority, especially when that social pressure is based on misrepresenation, cherry picking, irrational fear of men being sexual predators that fuel their urges on polygonal boobs and unwarranted judgement and condescencion (see a few posts above); there's a reason people are "creepy" about it, there wouldn't be any need to be "creepy" if it wasn't for the intolerant regressives crashing in trying to impose their morals in the first place.
 
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Why is there such focus in narrative to excuse naked bodies? I mean in comics you have iconic characters like Druuna and Vampirela. Guess what happened when Druuna was adapted as a video game years ago. They had to dress her.
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Bill O'Rights

Seldom posts. Always delivers.
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Can we avoid relating fan-service to porn please? Can we especially stop repeating it like a chant. If you're going to make comparisons, use fair ones. For instance, fan service in games is probably more akin to FHM, Esquire, 'lad-mags' etc. than xhamster and pornhub. 'Fanservice' is just part of a game with many reasons to play and enjoy, just like the photoshoots are window dressing for articles and editorials. Porn has only one purpose. I have no problem with either stance (for or against), but I do care that the arguments are being framed properly to avoid digressions.


If you're unable to equate the difference then you legitimately can't take part in an honest discussion and we'll have to remove you (at least temporarily).


Thanks all!
 
Can we avoid relating fan-service to porn please? Can we especially stop repeating it like a chant. If you're going to make comparisons, use fair ones. For instance, fan service in games is probably more akin to FHM, Esquire, 'lad-mags' etc. than xhamster and pornhub. 'Fanservice' is just part of a game with many reasons to play and enjoy, just like the photoshoots are window dressing for articles and editorials. Porn has only one purpose. I have no problem with either stance (for or against), but I do care that the arguments are being framed properly to avoid digressions.


If you're unable to equate the difference then you legitimately can't take part in an honest discussion and we'll have to remove you (at least temporarily).


Thanks all!
Good point, I was "tricked" into reading more than one FHM/Maxim article due to the scantily clad ladies. I wonder if I've ever done that for games?
 
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People are not complaining just for the hell of it, there's a reason and you know it, it's the exact same you quoted, there's fear of backlash and social pressure that almost forces media to be sanitized at the behest of the loud minority, especially when that social pressure is based on misrepresenation, cherry picking, irrational fear of men being sexual predators that fuel their urges on polygonal boobs and unwarranted judgement and condescencion (see a few posts above); there's a reason people are "creepy" about it, there wouldn't be any need to be "creepy" if it wasn't for the intolerant regressives crashing in trying to impose their morals in the first place.
So my question to you is, does NOT having it in games make the game bad in any way or shape or form?

I believe OP mentioned Spider-Man and how it's fan serviced to females because he's in briefs!!! Are you really serious? For one, it's an unlockable costume, two it takes some actual time to unlock... like it's not THAT deep or on the same level as female objectification where it's blatantly displayed. Lastly, with or without the costume is DOSE NOT AFFECT the game play or story what so ever. It literally adds NOTHING to the game nor does it take away from the game either.

Another example, in Tomb Raider (2013) there was ALMOST a graphic rape scene added in the game. Particularly there's a part in the game where Lara has to sneak around and if caught she is potentially raped. You see a man throwing Lara on the ground and pulling her panties off. Idk, if you would consider that fan service, but I kinda do. In any case, the scene was removed due to back lash and uproar for rape and sexualization of a character. Now, let's be honest Lara is a beautiful girl out in the wilderness and all alone, who would stop that? No one! So the story called for it, it makes that outcome totally believable. However, because the scene was ultimately removed didn't mean that game was any less good. And adding it in, wouldn't have made it any better. And yes, there were plenty of people saying keep the scene becuase it's apart of the narrative. No, I was not one of those people because I could care less for it so in a way I was happy they didn't add it. I wouldn't have wanted to look at it anyway.
 
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While it's been censored some the new Senran Kagura has shipped to me and should be enjoying my fan service game just like I have previous entries. I miss the days when video games weren't so mainstream and gamers actually enjoyed talking games with other gamers. Now people throw political lines and nonsense where it doesn't belong. The SK series is a decent little series with a fanbase that loves it, and offers pretty solid stories and writing. Katsurgari is my fav, because reasons :)
 
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Another example, in Tomb Raider (2013) there was ALMOST a graphic rape scene added in the game. Particularly there's a part in the game where Lara has to sneak around and if caught she is potentially raped. You see a man throwing Lara on the ground and pulling her panties off. Idk, if you would consider that fan service, but I kinda do. In any case, the scene was removed due to back lash and uproar for rape and sexualization of a character. Now, let's be honest Lara is a beautiful girl out in the wilderness and all alone, who would stop that? No one! So the story called for it, it makes that outcome totally believable. However, because the scene was ultimately removed didn't mean that game was any less good. And adding it in, wouldn't have made it any better. And yes, there were plenty of people saying keep the scene becuase it's apart of the narrative. No, I was not one of those people because I could care less for it so in a way I was happy they didn't add it. I wouldn't have wanted to look at it anyway.
That sucks. That scene would be nice to have in the game and make the player more incentivized to kill Lara's pursuers. I get what you're saying, but I don't appreciate the scene being censored for fear of backlash. There are many graphical deaths for Lara in those games - like the infamous wooden pole which impales her in the throat. Did people accuse the game of having 'torture porn'? Don't really remember. I think I read somewhere that people were claiming that the game expressed hatred towards men, because at some point Lara kills men again and again. *sigh*

Makes me wonder if people would get their panties in a bunch if the attempted rape/interrogation scene with G.I. Jane would be filmed and shown in theatres in this day and age.
 
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I believe OP mentioned Spider-Man and how it's fan serviced to females because he's in briefs!!! Are you really serious? For one, it's an unlockable costume, two it takes some actual time to unlock..
That example is to show the hypocrisy of western devs these days, they put an unlockable costume for spiderman in his underwear while at the same time they are scared to let Black Cat wear her iconic costume that shows cleavage, and the new TR devs are afraid to put Lara in her iconic shorts, they cant even include it as an unlockable from the 34 outfits.

there was ALMOST a graphic rape scene added in the game. Particularly there's a part in the game where Lara has to sneak around and if caught she is potentially raped. You see a man throwing Lara on the ground and pulling her panties off. Idk, if you would consider that fan service, but I kinda do.
You consider rape fan service?
 
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This is the weird area where progressives and conservatives somehow end up at the same spot, which makes me think you're unlikely to see the trend reversed.

While I lusted after B. Orchid back in the 90s, I really don't miss that Maxim phase of gaming. I prefer modern Orchid, and modern Lara, and find both plenty appealing.
 
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This is the weird area where progressives and conservatives somehow end up at the same spot, which makes me think you're unlikely to see the trend reversed.
That's weird. People who like to feel morally superior to others agree on feeling morally superior to others? Mind blown.

And we'll get it reversed. The pendulum is always in motion. I'm old enough to have seen it swing back and forth multiple times, and soon, we'll be back to punk rock and gratuitous nudity in no time. What's going to happen is someone is going to use something excessive (probably nudity or profanity) in a "fuck you" to government and/or society, which the government will try to stop but can't. This will be the catalyst for lots of other obscene fuck yous, until finally people just do the obscene part without the fuck yous. Then in a decade or two, people will be like, maybe we are too obscene, let's dial this back a bit, and in doing so, will empower sociopaths who get off on that power to continually push the envelope until, once again, it's time for some obscene fuck yous.

In gaming, DOOM, Mortal Kombat, and Grand Theft Auto 3 were obscene fuck yous. Manhunt, Carmageddon, Saint's Row 2, Postal, South Park, and so on. I think the censoring of Manhunt 2 may have been the beginning of the pendulum swinging the other direction. It went too far, was censored, and not enough people got upset about it - this opened the door for other people to come in and criticize the content of video games without others wondering why someone pulling a Jack Thompson didn't get the same "fuck off" that Jack Thompson did.

I feel like the social environment is ripe for a Grand Theft Auto/South Park-like game to come in and be satirical, obscene, and monstrous simultaneously. Because the environment is ripe for mocking, less people will be upset that it is being mocked, and the obscenity will work in service of knocking down the morally superior from their high horse. It'll happen, but it won't be from the three or four major publishers who have been taking it up the ass from progressives and thanking them for opportunity to serve.
 
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That example is to show the hypocrisy of western devs these days, they put an unlockable costume for spiderman in his underwear while at the same time they are scared to let Black Cat wear her iconic costume that shows cleavage, and the new TR devs are afraid to put Lara in her iconic shorts, they cant even include it as an unlockable from the 34 outfits.



You consider rape fan service?
Rape, No. The scene never went that far anyway to see anything of that caliber it was more so left up to your imagination—but we all knew what it was tho. The part that I consider fan service is Lara being thrown on the ground and fighting to keep her panties on. After that the game goes to a game over screen.

And my whole point was that it didn’t make Spider-Man any less of a game. It was still a great game. Men get fan serviced ALL the time, so because they said let’s dial it back it’s an issue?!?!? Does it REALLY matter? Play the game, enjoy the story... it’s not that deep.

So once again, I feel like people who look for that in video games and then complain it’s NOT in there are on the far end of the spectrum. It’s ridiculous.
 
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Lara being thrown on the ground and fighting to keep her panties on.
I've played through that scene, and I just rewatched it. Nothing like that happens. Are you referencing some earlier, unreleased version of the scene? I can't find out that the devs ever said anything like that being planned.

The pendulum is always in motion. I'm old enough to have seen it swing back and forth multiple times
Fair point but... I'm also old enough to remember when this was exclusively a conservative issue. That pendulum has some serious momentum right now. I just wouldn't hold my breath for the counterswing.
 
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