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[plaZeHD]

I personally don't like that sort of thing. It's always so tonally inconsistent and ends up being detracting, one of the reasons i can't get into story heavy Japanese games and anime

 

[Danjin44]

I personally don't like that sort of thing. It's always so tonally inconsistent and ends up being detracting, one of the reasons i can't get into story heavy Japanese games and anime

I can understand not being in to it but how is that "tonally inconsistent" exactly? Games like Bayonetta, the entire art direction and design is over the top which matches the story and character design, I don't see how is that "tonally inconsistent"?

 

[plaZeHD]

I can understand not being in to it but how is that "tonally inconsistent" exactly? Games like Bayonetta, the entire art direction and design is over the top which matches the story and character design, I don't see how is that "tonally inconsistent"?

That's fine with me, i guess saying always was hyperbole. I'm talking in games like MGS where the story wants to be taken somewhat seriously yet it has titty shots and panty shots.

 

[JordanN]

That's fine with me, i guess saying always was hyperbole. I'm talking in games like MGS where the story wants to be taken somewhat seriously yet it has titty shots and panty shots.

The game where a man can run around in a cardboard box on the battlefield? Or fights cyborg ninjas? That serious story?

 

[Danjin44]

That's fine with me, i guess saying always was hyperbole. I'm talking in games like MGS where the story wants to be taken somewhat seriously yet it has titty shots and panty shots.

I don't know, MGS it has giant mechs with cyborg ninjas and bosses over top design and personality and gameplay you throw porn mags to distract enemies.

 

[Threeshotgamer]

The game where a man can run around in a cardboard box on the battlefield? Or fights cyborg ninjas? That serious story?

 

[plaZeHD]

The game where a man can run around in a cardboard box on the battlefield? That serious story?

I don't know, MGS it has giant mechs with cyborg ninjas and bosses over top design and personality and gameplay you throw porn mags to distract enemies.

Call me boring but I don't like the campiness neither for the same reason. On one hand these games want to tell this super serious melodramatic story where characters talk endlessly in philosophical jargon and on other hand it's this silly light hearted fun with fart jokes. Swapping between these extremes is very jarring to me. If it were up to me i would tone down the melodrama cause that's when MGS is at it's weakest.

 

[Dacon]

Lots of words to just say that "Beautiful women don't exist"

Let's not forget all of the models and athletes. There's plenty of women out there that are more beautiful than say, someone like Bayonetta.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Yes

 

[Danjin44]

Call me boring but I don't like the campiness neither for the same reason. On one hand these games want to tell this super serious melodramatic story where characters talk endlessly in philosophical jargon and on other hand it's this silly light hearted fun with fart jokes. Swapping between these extremes is very jarring to me. If it were up to me i would tone down the melodrama cause that's when MGS is at it's weakest.

Well then avoid Yakuza games.

 

[autoduelist]

Way to back up your argument there, chief.

Sure, I can back it up. You are virtue signaling on a forum, shaming people for their race and [supposed] privilege. Better yet, you're also assuming people's race and privilege. You're doing this in a method trying to shut people up. You're trying to instill the idea that some people should have no voice because of immutable characteristics they possess such as being white and male.

And while it's a shame your ilk are blind to it, this makes you the racist one. This makes you the sexist one. You and Orwellian useful idiots like you literally try to redefine words like racism to make it impossible to be racist or sexist against white males. How convenient. You tear at individual rights, either too evil or too moronic to realize just how misguided you are. Your path leads to tyranny, but you don't care, til it eats you too.

You've allowed your mind to be infected by an insidious mind virus where you'll happily say 2+2=5, as long as you think it's progressive, you'll be racist and sexist while claiming to fend for the disenfranchised, but really you're just trying to establish yourself one rung higher on some virtue hierarchy.

Like i said, your post is morally and ethically bankrupt, you spread ideas like a plague. That you'd denounce a voice due to the characteristics of the speaker is only one symptom of your double think.

 

[joe_zazen]

Along with all the other meddling, virtually all big western media goes through sensitivity vetting today—people paid to identify problematic things that could generate blowback and excise them. Big Novels,, movies, games, all of it goes through that now.

It is a cynical money driven thing, not a ‘lets sacrifice profits for a better world’ thing.

And as far as games growing up are concerned, I call bullshit. All big games are driven by remorseless violence and murder. They are as ‘grown up’ as Marvel movies.

 

[Dr. Claus]

Lots of words to just say that "Beautiful women don't exist"

C'mon man. Beautiful people don't exist. We are all secretly morbidly obese freaks or skeletons. No inbetween. /s

 

[DeepEnigma]

Nailed it!

Deserve everything that's coming to them? Not our fault your a flamer who's parents probably packed them inside the dashboard of a Ford Festiva to get here.

Get in bruh!

 

[JordanN]

Isn't always funny how ugly is linked to "realism", yet at the same time we're always told people not wanting to conform to in real life "beauty standards"?

If trying to capture beautiful people in games is wrong, then I expect every Cosmetics Parlor or Beauty Salon should have gone out of business already.

 

[joe_zazen]

And isnt it nice that there are multiple viewpoints that can get expressed and no bannings.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

And isnt it nice that there are multiple viewpoints that can get expressed and no bannings.

I admit that sometimes, I feel my misanthropy slip a little and I start to feel a tinge of faith in humanity again. And in those dark moments, I go over to ResetEra and read the "Why Women Complain About Sexualized Character Designs" thread and I am reborn, my bitter sarcasm meter fully recharged.

 

[ToadMan]

So wanting to see scantily clad ladies is “fan service” now?

That seems.... like the wrong use of that word.

But besides that I can’t see what the OP is complaining about. Are pixelated bits of flesh titilating? If they are, that’s why they’re frowned upon in games these days, if they’re not, then they may as well not be there anyway.

There are plenty of special interest “female fan service” (fap service?) websites, images and videos all over the internet - it’s more available than ever in human history. Is it really necessary to have this concern for video games?

Just seems like a misplaced siege mentality about the eroding of “rights” rather than a genuine issue in video games.

Also, it’s not appropriate to conflate the lack of flesh on display with censorship. The developers themselves are voluntarily choosing the art style - it’s not being forced on them by a government body.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

I personally don't like that sort of thing. It's always so tonally inconsistent and ends up being detracting, one of the reasons i can't get into story heavy Japanese games and anime

You sound like the life of a party.

I will never understand people who hate beautiful things. Life is short, enjoy the carnal pleasures of beautiful women or men, whatever floats your boat. That is the secret to a happy life.

 

[El_Belmondo]

Sure, I can back it up. You are virtue signaling on a forum, shaming people for their race and [supposed] privilege. Better yet, you're also assuming people's race and privilege. You're doing this in a method trying to shut people up. You're trying to instill the idea that some people should have no voice because of immutable characteristics they possess such as being white and male.

And while it's a shame your ilk are blind to it, this makes you the racist one. This makes you the sexist one. You and Orwellian useful idiots like you literally try to redefine words like racism to make it impossible to be racist or sexist against white males. How convenient. You tear at individual rights, either too evil or too moronic to realize just how misguided you are. Your path leads to tyranny, but you don't care, til it eats you too.

You've allowed your mind to be infected by an insidious mind virus where you'll happily say 2+2=5, as long as you think it's progressive, you'll be racist and sexist while claiming to fend for the disenfranchised, but really you're just trying to establish yourself one rung higher on some virtue hierarchy.

Like i said, your post is morally and ethically bankrupt, you spread ideas like a plague. That you'd denounce a voice due to the characteristics of the speaker is only one symptom of your double think.

This post can be serious.

This is resetera level logic, man. They used this exact rethoric for banning me once.

 

[LegendOfKage]

This post can be serious.

This is resetera level logic, man. They used this exact rethoric for banning me once.

The good news is no one here is going to ban you because people accuse you of virtue signaling.

I often think of virtue signaling as a sister fallacy to objectification. Both usually make negative character assumptions about something that couldn't actually be known.

 

[autoduelist]

This post can be serious.

This is resetera level logic, man. They used this exact rethoric for banning me once.

Huh? My post is clearly anti identity politics and pro free speech and individual. Reset era is none of that.

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

I often think of virtue signaling as a sister fallacy to objectification. Both usually make negative character assumptions about something that couldn't actually be known.

I prefer the more benign "posturing". Like a peacock showing its feathers. We may not know the internal motivations for it, but there's little doubt that they are showing off.

 

[autoduelist]

The good news is no one here is going to ban you because people accuse you of virtue signaling.

I often think of virtue signaling as a sister fallacy to objectification. Both usually make negative character assumptions about something that couldn't actually be known.

The author of the post I was objecting to essentially told white males to shut up. They were engaging in identity politics and clearly signing being virtuous by doing so. If they did so unknowingly then that's all the more reason they need to be called out on it.

 

[bilderberg]

Isn't always funny how ugly is linked to "realism", yet at the same time we're always told people not wanting to conform to in real life "beauty standards"?

If trying to capture beautiful people in games is wrong, then I expect every Cosmetics Parlor or Beauty Salon should have gone out of business already.

And we're very selective about what level of "beautiful" is okay. Perfect skin, big eyes, flowing hair, full lips, high cheekbones, etc are all acceptable. But big boobs? Hell no, that's just not realistic.

 

[kevin_trinh]

Lots of words to just say that "Beautiful women don't exist"

This thread should have more post like this, we don't need text, we want pictures

 

[LegendOfKage]

The author of the post I was objecting to essentially told white males to shut up. They were engaging in identity politics and clearly signing being virtuous by doing so. If they did so unknowingly then that's all the more reason they need to be called out on it.

I don't think they mentioned race, that was you. Although it was mentioned earlier in the thread, so it's not as if you were the first to mention it either. Either way, I think it's a bad idea to fight someone's feelings of moral superiority with your own feelings of moral superiority.

You tear at individual rights, either too evil or too moronic to realize just how misguided you are. Your path leads to tyranny, but you don't care, til it eats you too.

Like i said, your post is morally and ethically bankrupt, you spread ideas like a plague.

These quotes in particular have a quality of "you're a bad person for not thinking like I do" which is kind of the thing I was arguing against earlier when people look down on others who enjoy sexy female characters. I'm sure I ultimately agree with you FAR more than I do the person who swings in to shitpost "oh, won't someone think of the poor straight males" or whatever, but I still disagree with the conclusions you immediately reached and the aggressive shaming and moral superiority aspects of your post. I think that's what was suggested seemed like it could be coming from another website.

 

[autoduelist]

I don't think they mentioned race, that was iyou.

The post I was responding to said
"Ah yes, the poor straight male, the real victim in this world"

Not race, you're right. Just gender and orientation. Same stupid logic that people use to shut up other people based on identity. I thought they had they normal trifecta which includes race, but you are right they left out race. Still awful identity politics.

 

[El_Belmondo]

The good news is no one here is going to ban you because people accuse you of virtue signaling.

I often think of virtue signaling as a sister fallacy to objectification. Both usually make negative character assumptions about something that couldn't actually be known.

Huh? My post is clearly anti identity politics and pro free speech and individual. Reset era is none of that.

*Sigh* let's leave it at that, but you guys are surely capable of more forms of debate than "no, u" and "omg virtue signaling"

 

[autoduelist]

*Sigh* let's leave it at that, but you guys are surely capable of more forms of debate than "no, u" and "omg virtue signaling"

Are you serious? That post was barely about virtue signaling. It was about the problems of modern identity politics. Virtual signaling was a minor footnote, barely important to the points I was making. Maybe you should try rereading it.

 

[Senhua]

Hmm, see a trend.

Only one of this not like the others

Even mods can do better

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

Fanservice for straight guys, in Western games? Its super rare. Most female characters these days tend to look somewhere between plain and ugly.
Battle Chasers and Paladins has some nice looking girls though. Witcher 3 did as well - but I guess everyone knows about that by now.

 

[LegendOfKage]

*Sigh* let's leave it at that, but you guys are surely capable of more forms of debate than "no, u" and "omg virtue signaling"

You do realize that I was agreeing with you, and being critical of the judgement found in autoduelist's post, right? The "no, u" in question was them, even if I ultimately feel more the way they do about this topic. See post 377. I'm saying the conclusions they're jumping to are not unlike when people with opposing views do the same thing.

And for the debate I'm capable of, see this post, which best describes my true feelings on the subject.

 

[petran79]

Japanese games are inspired by over the top Western male and female fashion models for their characters in video games, while Western games look for the most safe and generic design. Shame!

 

[Dacon]

Even mods can do better

So there IS hope for Claires face in Remake 2.

 

[InterMusketeer]

So wanting to see scantily clad ladies is “fan service” now?

That seems.... like the wrong use of that word.

Nahh, it's appropriate use of the word. Like the obligatory pool/beach episode and/or onsen episode in anime. Short scenes, alternate costumes to show off some of the female characters. That's fan service.

Are pixelated bits of flesh titilating? If they are, that’s why they’re frowned upon in games these days

Titilating things can't exist in games anymore? That's the first time I've heard that, and I'm glad of it. What a dumb thing to say.

There are plenty of special interest “female fan service” (fap service?) websites, images and videos all over the internet - it’s more available than ever in human history. Is it really necessary to have this concern for video games?

Fan service is different from porn. How many times does this have to be repeated?

Just seems like a misplaced siege mentality about the eroding of “rights” rather than a genuine issue in video games.

Who's said anything about rights? People here lament the loss of certain types of content in games. Doesn't have anything to do with rights.

Also, it’s not appropriate to conflate the lack of flesh on display with censorship. The developers themselves are voluntarily choosing the art style - it’s not being forced on them by a government body.

Here, I'll pull up wikipedia for you:

Governments and private organizations may engage in censorship. Other groups or institutions may propose and petition for censorship. When an individual such as an author or other creator engages in censorship of their own works or speech, it is referred to as self-censorship. It occurs in a variety of different media, including speech, books, music, films, and other arts, the press, radio, television, and the Internet for a variety of claimed reasons including national security, to control obscenity, child pornography, and hate speech, to protect children or other vulnerable groups, to promote or restrict political or religious views, and to prevent slander and libel.

 

[Saruhashi]

The less incidents for male gaze the better. I resent the tone and title of the thread, as if it is an issue of concern to begin with. The person who made this thread should be embarrassed with what he put forth.

I feel like statements such as this haven't really been well thought out.

I mean, it sounds good on the surface right? Like "the male gaze" can and does frequently make (not all) women uncomfortable. That's a fact.
I'm sure no lady likes to have the ugly ass smelly bloke on the train checking them out.
So it feels good man to stand up for those ladies and get a nice old pat on the back from society.

Except... where did that society come from? How did we all come to be here?

Assuming none of us posters were created in a lab somewhere, the vast majority of us are here because of some kind of physical or sexual attraction between our parents (eeeeeewwww, gross).

It is certain that "the male gaze" played some kind of role in that.

So, sexualization, to some degree, is a fundamental building block of society to begin with.
Expressions of that go some way to actually understanding ourselves and our basic nature.

Are you going to tell us that you never "check out" other men or women or whomever you have an interest in?
I'd say most people allow themselves some kind of "gaze" at people they maybe attracted to at some point in their lives.

Surely sexualized characters are a valid expression of that aspect of humanity. You know, the aspect that ensures we are even here at all.

I wonder what kind of world it would be if expressions of attraction or displays of attractiveness were banned outright. Even punishable.
Probably not a very good world.

It's mixed messages too. On one hand we are encouraged to celebrate our sexuality but on the other hand "oh my god that chick is so damn hot" is frowned upon. Often this is coming from the same kind of people.

If we covered all the women up, there would be no more "male gaze". Is this acceptable to you?
Keep them all indoors? Acceptable now?

I'm guessing your true feeling is somewhere around "the male gaze is OK in some circumstances"?
Maybe you can expand a bit on how you feel about that?

 

[PocoJoe]

Gaming is gaming, those that cant separate it from reality should not game. Simple as that.

If i see muscular man in a game, do I cry? No. I dont care of how characters look, if they are part of the world.

Most idiotic thing i have heard is that Lara in tomb raider should be fat(ter), because IRL fat insecure women cant face the facts.

It would be really silly to have fat Lara because of how athletic Lara should be to be able to do all that climbing and other things.

These complainers should fix their diet, get a hobby/go to gym and archieve the body they wish they had.

Instead of being jealous assholes that want to ruin it for everybody.

Let games be games, leave retarded politics out of it, that is my wish.

 

[plaZeHD]

You sound like the life of a party.

I will never understand people who hate beautiful things. Life is short, enjoy the carnal pleasures of beautiful women or men, whatever floats your boat. That is the secret to a happy life.

I don't have an aversion to beautiful things but having beautiful things isn't self evidently good it has to be justified. This is the standard we apply to everything why is this any different?
Think if all the female characters in The Godfather walked in bikini, that would be a bit ridiculous wouldn't you say? The movie would lose its grounded tone and that would be a change for the worse.

 

[The Chairman]

SJWs in a nutshell.

 

[Enygger_Tzu]

I don't have an aversion to beautiful things but having beautiful things isn't self evidently good it has to be justified. This is the standard we apply to everything why is this any different?
Think if all the female characters in The Godfather walked in bikini, that would be a bit ridiculous wouldn't you say? The movie would lose its grounded tone and that would be a change for the worse.

So why instead of having to change...of having to censor games that you don't like, play games you like, problem solved.

Also, by the very first moment you introduce a female soldier/warrior/fighter/hero that tackles the issue just as well as males...verisimilitude is lost.

 

[Cybrwzrd]

I don't have an aversion to beautiful things but having beautiful things isn't self evidently good it has to be justified. This is the standard we apply to everything why is this any different?
Think if all the female characters in The Godfather walked in bikini, that would be a bit ridiculous wouldn't you say? The movie would lose its grounded tone and that would be a change for the worse.

Very few games approach The Godfather levels of storytelling, and surprisingly, one of the few that have done that featured one of the most perfect asses in video game history.

No, it would't work tonally for The Godfather, but that isn't the point. It is still possible to have both.

 

[drigosr]

Why do people want sexy outfits? What's the importance?

 

[Enygger_Tzu]

Why do people want sexy outfits? What's the importance?

Because it offers the straight (white) male demographic a more visual pleasure, is it wrong?

 

[Sqorin Hammerfarf]

SJWs in a nutshell.

Just realized how important blinking is to overcoming the uncanny valley.

 

[Ulysses 31]

Because it offers the straight (white) male demographic a more visual pleasure, is it wrong?

It’s wrong to please the oppressors of minorities.

 

[plaZeHD]

So why instead of having to change...of having to censor games that you don't like, play games you like, problem solved.

Also, by the very first moment you introduce a female soldier/warrior/fighter/hero that tackles the issue just as well as males...verisimilitude is lost.

I didn't advocate for censorship.
An individual isn't just an average of their group and fictional characters tend to be the exceptions so it's very easy for me to accept a super exceptional woman that is as good at her job as the average male.

 

[Cosmogony]

It’s wrong to please the oppressors of minorities.

You first have to show minorities are indeed oppressed and that they are oppressed by the people you say oppress them. Then you would have to show that by pleasing the alleged oppressors you would be somehow contributing to the oppression itself. Then you would have to show that moral facts exist and that when you say that it is wrong that's not just your opinion but a factual statement.

But given that, I predict, you will not show any of this, your opinion can safely be dismissed.

 

[Enygger_Tzu]

I think Ulysses was being sarcastic.

 

[SonGoku]

Overwatch,MOBA'S, and hero shooters

lol imagine playing overwatch and mobas in 2018