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Is time to ask the 5 million dollar question on impeachment?

pramod

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Oct 24, 2017
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If the transcript doesnt prove Trump is guilty.

If the president of Ukraine said Trump isnt guilty.

What is there left to investigate?

What other definite proof can be left to discover? Did Trump do a secret whatsapp chat with Zelensky that we dont know about?
 
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Guynamedbilly

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Barring some other secret evidence we haven't heard about yet, it doesn't matter to the Dems if he's guilty.

It's all about resistance and drumming up their base. Do you think most people will bother to fact check these people? Of course not. They are predisposed to hate Trump so whatever pushes that narrative is what they go with.
 

infinitys_7th

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Barring some other secret evidence we haven't heard about yet, it doesn't matter to the Dems if he's guilty.

It's all about resistance and drumming up their base. Do you think most people will bother to fact check these people? Of course not. They are predisposed to hate Trump so whatever pushes that narrative is what they go with.
Pelosi already said as much, so that really tells me all I need to know with the media narrative being that impeachment is a "political" rather than a "legal" or "justice"-oriented process.

Democrats are terrified because of the 2016 election connection with Ukraine.
 

The Pleasure

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The TV series as The White House Turns is going to be a bigger finale than Hobo with a Shotgun
 

pramod

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Pelosi already said as much, so that really tells me all I need to know with the media narrative being that impeachment is a "political" rather than a "legal" or "justice"-oriented process.

Democrats are terrified because of the 2016 election connection with Ukraine.
Yeah seems to me all these investigations and leaks are just some big psy ops. They probably think they can hypnotize the public into believing Trump is guilty if they repeat it enough times. Sort of like a mass suggestion.
 
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Joe T.

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Yeah seems to me all these investigations and leaks are just some big psy ops. They probably think they can hypnotize the public into believing Trump is guilty if they repeat it enough times. Sort of like a mass suggestion.
Posted by one of the whistleblower's lawyers, Andrew P. Bakaj, on January 27th, 2017:

CAN THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BE THE SUBJECT OF A WHISTLEBLOWER REPRISAL INVESTIGATION?
The short answer is: perhaps. If so, given the circumstances and the current environment here in Washington, I would posit that a Congressional Committee would be the only body that could effectively and independently investigate such an allegation.
Three days later another lawyer for the whistleblower, Mark S. Zaid, tweets out that "the coup has started." They waited for the Russia/Mueller story to collapse.



It's been fascinating watching this unfold, I'd expect the people carrying out these type of operations to be a little more... discreet.
 
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JORMBO

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I don’t think congress knows how to do real work anymore. It’s an easy workday everyday when all you have to do is endless bullshit interviews most of the country doesn’t care about.
 
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HeresJohnny

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Yeah seems to me all these investigations and leaks are just some big psy ops. They probably think they can hypnotize the public into believing Trump is guilty if they repeat it enough times. Sort of like a mass suggestion.
It’s right out of the Saul Alinsky playbook. Repeat the lie enough until they believe it.
 

azz0r

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Trump saying hes not guilty and the Ukraine saying hes not guilty does not mean hes not guilty. Hypothetical; Do you think murderers and their accomplices would say they are guilty?

That's why you have an investigation.

The transcript Trump alone released proved he pressured him.
 
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Super Mario

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Even if he is "guilty of quid pro quo," what does that even mean? What's the legality of that? The left has reached deep to spell out the consequences. Apparently all "hope and freedom" is lost because Trump wants a two-way reward on this partnership and wants to investigate ACTUAL wrongdoing of a presidential candidate.

There is less than a 0% chance that the Senate would do anything with this investigation. The left knows that. Just more distraction and smearing.
 
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Hotspurr

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Im a bit confused.
The transcript confirms Trump asked for dirt on Bidens. He even went about it through unconventional channels by using his personal lawyer

Ukraine officials confirm they were told the aid was contingent on a Biden investigation BEFORE the aid was released.

Was Zelensky pressure during the call? Doesn't seem that way.
Was Ukraine pressured after they found out aid was withheld and they needed to investigate Biden? Yeah, I would say so. If you tell a country's top officials that they won't get aid unless they open up investigation, that's literally pressure. The Ukraine government, whether it was Zelensky or his top officials, were directly made aware that aid was contingent on a Biden investigation. This is fully corroborated now. This came about due to requests by Trump based on first hand accounts of conversations with him (Sondland).

What other evidence do you want? Keep doubling down though, it's fun to watch.
 

azz0r

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Tales from your ass.
Luckily for both of us, the house doesn't care about your opinion, Donald Trumps opinion or my opinion. They care about investigating matters legally and providing evidence and testimonies on crimes.

If they did nothing wrong they won't find any crimes, so why worry?
 
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prag16

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Im a bit confused.
The transcript confirms Trump asked for dirt on Bidens. He even went about it through unconventional channels by using his personal lawyer

Ukraine officials confirm they were told the aid was contingent on a Biden investigation BEFORE the aid was released.

Was Zelensky pressure during the call? Doesn't seem that way.
Was Ukraine pressured after they found out aid was withheld and they needed to investigate Biden? Yeah, I would say so. If you tell a country's top officials that they won't get aid unless they open up investigation, that's literally pressure. The Ukraine government, whether it was Zelensky or his top officials, were directly made aware that aid was contingent on a Biden investigation. This is fully corroborated now. This came about due to requests by Trump based on first hand accounts of conversations with him (Sondland).

What other evidence do you want? Keep doubling down though, it's fun to watch.
You've got most of the narrative in here, but you forgot to include the imagery of Giuliani skulking in the shadows in Kiev all cloak and dagger, conducting his covert op.
 
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Guynamedbilly

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I haven't seen any evidence that Trump asked for a quid pro quo arrangement, but I absolutely wouldn't doubt Guiliani would do almost anything. Even if he did, I don't care. Since when is rooting out corruption a bad thing? I hope he can get a few more corrupt politicians investigated.

It's simply hilarious that they are trying to impeach him for asking to investigate US government corruption when they have spent millions of dollars the past three years to investigate corruption between Trump and Russia that led nowhere.
 

azz0r

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You're best troll, I love it!
If they did nothing wrong they won't find any crimes, so why worry?

Also keen to understand how I'm trolling.

And if your gif is implying Schiff isn't doing what I've stated, do you honestly think Nunes was doing it before? Hell no, he was protecting that orange fucking criminal overlord.
 
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If they did nothing wrong they won't find any crimes, so why worry?
"You have nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide."

History has demonstrated just where this mentality leads.

Those who embrace or seek to reintroduce it at governmental level are not going to like what happens to them. By which time it'll be too late. Accusations are evidence.
 

infinitys_7th

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Trump saying hes not guilty and the Ukraine saying hes not guilty does not mean hes not guilty. Hypothetical; Do you think murderers and their accomplices would say they are guilty?

That's why you have an investigation.

The transcript Trump alone released proved he pressured him.
Generally, if a murder victim tells me he wasn't murdered I believe him.
 

cryptoadam

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How is quid pro quo a crime though? Its a complete stretch by the dems to say its for political reasons because we are 1.5 years from the election and Biden hasn't even secured the nomination.

So what is the crime exactly here? Asking Ukraine to investigate their role in 2016 interference which they have admitted they did interfere and Biden abusing his power which we have on tape him saying he used quid pro quo?

thankfully the Senate won't impeach, but this is being done as political theater because Dems know that they won't beat Trump in 2020.

Lets remember, the DNC had the Ukraninans leak the black ledger to bolster the Trump+Russia collusion theory during the 2016 election, to influence it. This happened during the election, not months before when Trump was in the primaries.
 

DeepEnigma

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How is quid pro quo a crime though? Its a complete stretch by the dems to say its for political reasons because we are 1.5 years from the election and Biden hasn't even secured the nomination.

So what is the crime exactly here? Asking Ukraine to investigate their role in 2016 interference which they have admitted they did interfere and Biden abusing his power which we have on tape him saying he used quid pro quo?

thankfully the Senate won't impeach, but this is being done as political theater because Dems know that they won't beat Trump in 2020.

Lets remember, the DNC had the Ukraninans leak the black ledger to bolster the Trump+Russia collusion theory during the 2016 election, to influence it. This happened during the election, not months before when Trump was in the primaries.
It's only a crime if he does (or by the DOJ he didn't do) it. Not Biden, and every other Dem before or after him.
 
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dkny1121

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Trump saying hes not guilty and the Ukraine saying hes not guilty does not mean hes not guilty. Hypothetical; Do you think murderers and their accomplices would say they are guilty?

That's why you have an investigation.

The transcript Trump alone released proved he pressured him.
What transcript did you read?
 

cryptoadam

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Feb 21, 2018
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At the J Street conference this week in Washington, D.C., for example, Sanders suggested to the attendees of the liberal Jewish Middle East policy group that, while the $3.8 billion in aid the U.S. commits to Israel each year should remain intact, he wondered out loud if this aid could be conditional. “My solution is to say to Israel: you get $3.8 billion dollars every year, if you want military aid you’re going to have to fundamentally change your relationship to the people of Gaza,” Sanders said. “In fact,” he added with breathtaking audacity, “I think it is fair to say that some of that should go right now into humanitarian aid in Gaza.”

sounds like a quid pro quo? Should Sanders be removed from running for president since he is admitting that he will use quid pro quo if he becomes president?
 

Havoc2049

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The US Government has always put conditions on foreign aid. It happens all the time, as it should. The only shady part in the whole Impeachment BS is with Biden, as his son was gaining personally with the sweet money making scam that he and his father had going.
 

pramod

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I just feel theres 0% of any firsthand bombshell info still hiding out there. In this day and age if theres anything left we would have known about it already.

This is like Mueller 2.0. Everyone was expecting some explosive report and turns out there was zilch in it that we didnt already know.
 

pramod

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Im a bit confused.
The transcript confirms Trump asked for dirt on Bidens. He even went about it through unconventional channels by using his personal lawyer

Ukraine officials confirm they were told the aid was contingent on a Biden investigation BEFORE the aid was released.

Was Zelensky pressure during the call? Doesn't seem that way.
Was Ukraine pressured after they found out aid was withheld and they needed to investigate Biden? Yeah, I would say so. If you tell a country's top officials that they won't get aid unless they open up investigation, that's literally pressure. The Ukraine government, whether it was Zelensky or his top officials, were directly made aware that aid was contingent on a Biden investigation. This is fully corroborated now. This came about due to requests by Trump based on first hand accounts of conversations with him (Sondland).

What other evidence do you want? Keep doubling down though, it's fun to watch.
This is a very reasonable take so i just want to respond to it. There is definitely now an appearance of an attempted quid pro quo. I agree with you on that. And i think this may have been Trumps intention as well...to pressure Ukraine but without actually being explicit about it. Its very Trump like, he pushes things to the limit to see how much he can get away with.

But i think what the Dems dont have and most likely never will get, is proof of an explicit quid pro quo. If they dont have that then they wont be able to get rid of Trump.
 

Hotspurr

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He literally released a transcript that proved he fucking did it!!! His own staff have now testified to congress proving it.

What more do you need?
I think some people are caught up on the idea that for quid pro quo to happen things need to exchange hands. (Not necessarily)

The other point is that you have to show this was done for personal gain. There is a lot of evidence this is the case, but no explicit "I want to get dirt on Biden to sink him in the election". In a sense it's analogous to a scenario when a perpetrator runs someone over with a car, and claims it's accidental manslaughter when really it's first/second degree murder. They just need to solidify a bit more that Trump was indeed doing it for personal gain.
 

pramod

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He literally released a transcript that proved he fucking did it!!! His own staff have now testified to congress proving it.

What more do you need?
Where in the transcript did it say "lets make a deal you do xxx for me and i will give you xxxx?"
 
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Where in the transcript did it say "lets make a deal you do xxx for me and i will give you xxxx?"
No no no. That's not how it works. Just repeat things. Don't actually provide verifiable evidence. Hell, don't even acknowledge calls for evidence (and, even if you do - just write some sentences referencing stuff that other people say - because that's exactly the same thing as providing verifiable evidence). No - just screech, repeat. Disappear for a few days, reappear and screech, repeat, repeat etc etc.

Accusations are evidence.
 
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Hotspurr

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No no no. That's not how it works. Just repeat things. Don't actually provide verifiable evidence. Hell, don't even acknowledge calls for evidence (and, even if you do - just write some sentences referencing stuff that other people say - because that's exactly the same thing as providing verifiable evidence). No - just screech, repeat. Disappear for a few days, reappear and screech, repeat, repeat etc etc.

Accusations are evidence.
You guys went from defending Trump with regards to being corrupt to acknowledging he acted corruptly but defending that there is not enough to impeach. Like are you not even a little concerned?

Most of the arguments I see now are "well he was doing it to get stuff on Biden and holding aid but they won't have direct proof so nyaaa".
 

Hotspurr

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Odd, I've not made any of those arguments you claim (no evidence to go with your claim of course, just "you guys" and a narrative. Accusations are evidence though, so that's good enough.), but you felt that was somehow a relevant rebuttal to what I said.

OK.
To be honest I haven't seen you make too many arguments. Just a lot of moaning and "orange man good"ing, a bit ironic in the context of your last post.
 

Guynamedbilly

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To be honest I haven't seen you make too many arguments. Just a lot of moaning and "orange man good"ing, a bit ironic in the context of your last post.
You ever going to answer the man's question about where Trump asked for a quid pro quo?
 

Hotspurr

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You ever going to answer the man's question about where Trump asked for a quid pro quo?
Trump asked for dirt on Biden. Told Ukranians Rudy would help getting it. Rudy admits to trying to get it. Aid was withheld. Sondland who spoke to Trump admits that based on their conversations the aid was dependent on an investigation. Multiple other officials confirm a similar picture. What else do you need Sherlock? A manuscript saying "hey Zelensky, give me dirt on Biden or you don't get aid". At least give your orange emperor a bit more credit that that.