Is VR dead in the water? (Steam VR game sales / Data Leak)

#1
With the recent revelation from Valve via the way of leaks in the API we've been able to get a snapshot into the player numbers of games on Steam. I'm sure not too many people thought about this but this also led to the unmasking of VR game performance and I've got to say that it's quite abominable.

This right here is a LTD player count of the most played VR games on the platform, the most played paid game is sitting at a measly 200,000 and the highest played game is free to play at 316,000.

I think it's quite clear now why Microsoft pulled the plug on VR support for the Xbox One X.


https://vrscout.com/news/steam-leak-reveals-vr-player-count/#


 
#7
That's a big part of it, they've got to get this down to the $150-$200 range if they want wider adoption but I don't see them making the sacrifice.
I think they need to get it further down or bundle it with the next generation of consoles. Otherwise it'll just end up like the Kinect, after Microsoft decided to not make it mandatory.
 
#8
I think they need to get it further down or bundle it with the next generation of consoles. Otherwise it'll just end up like the Kinect, after Microsoft decided to not make it mandatory.
Here's the problem I see with PC VR at least, the hardware manufacturers and software manufacturers are not linked in any capacity nor are the publishing platforms e.g. Steam. Sony and PSVR is in an advantageous position as they create both software for the platform and hardware, plus they receive licensing royalties and sales fees for hosting games as they own the platform. This allows them to hit a much lower price point with their headsets as they're able to recoup any losses on the hardware by offsetting it with software sales and platform fees etc.

PC VR headset manufacturers have no means of doing this so the market might actually be completely screwed for PC.
 
#9
VR isnr dead. It's enthusiast tier. $400 minimum to get started on PC...and that's before buying an actual PC!!!
With everything going to the casual market I don't see many enthusiast tier gaming products cutting in 2018. Mom and Pop type stuff doesn't really get made anymore because it only makes nickels and dimes with Walmart around the corner.
 
#10
It is not dead. IT is just too expensive.

Other problems:
- Weight of device. All of them have too much weight
- Low FOV. This might sound idiotic considering VR provides much more than monitor but VR should cover about 200 degree of FOV not 100-110 like today. Because with 100 you feel like you have googles on.
- resolution. It is still too low. I bought VIVE and i thought that it will improve resolution over PSVR and sadly it did not. In fact screen door effect was more noticeable which surprised me.
- motion gaming is wank. Like Wii it feels great for 5 minutes and then you realize you are too fucking lazy to stand all day playing games. IT doesn't mean they don't have place, arcade centres could probably do a lot with room scale but outside of that VR should be seated experience. Right now basically half of games on Steam are just room scaly experiences.
- lack of real games. It is clear that experiences while interesting for 5 minutes they can't survive actually wanting to play them because then you expect something more than 5 minutes. This is where actual games like F4VR, Re7 etc comes and they are by far BEST VR EXPERIENCES because they are simply games instead of preety things to watch.

I think like initial oculus kick-starter had it right. 300$ headset without controlers and you would play normal games on it.

But instead it transformed into this weird cultish "this is completely new medium and unless games are VR exlusive and have motion controls they are not real VR games". So VR trasformed from simple headtracking headset with 3D display into this weird new medium.
 
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#11
PCVR is probably a tough sell. It's hard enough to get a casual consumer to plug a VR unit into their existing playstation, and that is easy enough for them to do. My sister sets it up for my nephew and she never played videogames. Now try to explain to a casual consumer the steps they need to take to get a PCVR rig up and running.

It'll never happen on a large scale, especially with cryptocurrency ruining the GPU market. The only chance mass-scale VR has is with consoles or all-in-one packages that make the process easy for people who are clueless about this kind of thing. I'd be very interested to know how well some of these games sold on PSVR, in comparison. I am willing to bet they did a lot better there.
 
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#12
People are waiting for next-gen. The current gen is very limited and expensive. It's hardly dead though, devs are definitely putting in the ground work for gameplay systems in VR. It's still in its relative infancy. I do believe most people's expectations of how fast VR would grow was an overestimation. There's a lot of issues to be solved, and those solutions are increasing costs, and there doesn't seem to be a lot of cost reductions visible as far as hw is concerned. The panels and electronics required aren't really benefiting from economies of scale at this point, but I do believe the panel industry is looking at VR as a big growth factor as the sales of 4K TVs and smartphones stop growing, and nobody cares to switch over to 8K. That said, it'll take several years before we'll get something a bit more consumer friendly, and even console VR will remain a relatively expensive proposition. Only the Oculus Go type media devices will hit anything resembling impulse purchase territory, while offering a decent if limited and mostly passive VR experience.
 
#14
It's just not having the mass market appeal, just too expensive for Jane Average. There are some genres that really benefit from it, like racing sims or space sims, but they are quite niche themselves.
 
#15
those stats aint great but that doesn't include oculus store which is where I get my games from, I think the Vive has its own store to and obviously omits the PSVR from it to.
 

JordanN

Junior Member
#16
Technology always evolves until it turns into something great.

Consoles started off as mere pong machines. Now they're entertainment devices with a wide variety of functions.

Cell Phones were originally big clunky boxes that only the really wealthy could afford. Now they're little micro computers that fit in your pocket.

VR is in its beginning phase. Enthusiasts buy it and generate word of mouth. Eventually, the headsets will evolve and reach a point were they'll replace traditional 2D displays.
 
#17
The high cost of entry + the low software availability is why VR has not been the break out success. Additional there are only a few proper games that us gamers want to play like the RE7, Batman etc. the rest are just party games you play once in a while for an hour so.
 
#18
Warning, anecdotal evidence incoming (but hopefully I have a point):

I use VR almost every day - HOWEVER, exclusively for hardcore simulators like Digital Combat Simulator (OMG @ the new F/A-18C module, it's blowing my mind..). The other types of games that I used to anticipate the most, like Budget Cuts, I didn't even bother buying.

VR is moving so slow (for consumers), there is almost no technical progression (that we can buy). We should've homed in on VR 2.0 by now, but sadly we're still stuck at v1.something.

Locomotion for non-cockpit experiences. This is a tricky one..
Form factor, usability. But it has big dependencies that has to be sorted out, like display and lens technology, it's hard to shrink the devices driven by today's tech, we may need completely new tech.
Image quality: Still nowhere near "TV at a distance" quality. The dependencies are display tech, processing power, and eye tracking / foveated rendering.
Processing power. There's a massive lack of GPU processing power needed for a significant lift in IQ. But with massive sales to Crypto mining and a sense of control over AMD, Nvidia obviously haven't had a sense of urgency to throw faster GPUs into the market (again where has foveated rendering stranded..?)
Wireless.

And I don't mean that this alone will drive mass adoption, but I think this is needed to at least drive us enthusiast forward.. Which I know is a dilemma in the sense that VR technology needs sales to drive development..
 
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JORMBO

Darkness no more
#19
The technology is still very early and has a lot of room for improvement. I don’t think it will die, but it won’t be a massive success until things like resolution improve, more bigger games are put on it and the price comes down. VR does have some other uses outside of gaming too.
 
#21
PSVR has been fairly successful as far as I know and has continued to receive new games week after week.

I think the problem with VR on PC is the manufacturers did the typical PC thing: make it as advanced as the budget could reasonably allow and launch it at a high price. Tiny pool of consumers means tiny pool of potential game sales. That's not how you normalize VR. Games continue to come out for the thing, so developers seem to be on board with the technology.

At least Sony is attempting to get it out there.
 
#22
My rift is collecting dust.
Too many "experiences" instead of full games.
And the full games are mostly pc ports with less amazing controls. Still had some good fun forget using this in the summer xD

Still cool thing to get if you have a good gaming pc.

I will buy vr again when its lagless wireless and weighs no heavier then ski goggles.
 
#25
They need to reach "ready player one level" of convenience for their headsets. Only the most hardcore of hardcore will deal with all the ergonomical inconveniences of the VR gear. At least that's whats holding me back big time.

I agree. Though I donindeed have a PSVR and quite a few games, it’s cumbersome to set up in my apartment. It’s definitely not dead though. As someone else stated, it’s in a weird middle space now. In about 5-10 years time I see VR being completely different and more accessible
 
#26
I tried it and I think technology STILL isn't here to make it appealing. Yes it makes things interesting but that's about it. After a few minutes trying I feel like that's enough.
 
#27
I believe that VR is here to stay. But I think it will play a bigger role in other industries. VR is already huge in Architecture Visualization and it is starting to play a big hole in movies as a pre-production tool. And for these industries, it is very cheap actually.
 
#28
They need to reach "ready player one level" of convenience for their headsets. Only the most hardcore of hardcore will deal with all the ergonomical inconveniences of the VR gear. At least that's whats holding me back big time.
Oculus go.
Amd they have the santa cruz coming out next year which is also standalone...
 
#29
When it's a full experience for $299 with a built in computer and simple controls it might be more enticing, but it's just nerd stuff at the moment.
 
#30
They need to reach "ready player one level" of convenience for their headsets. Only the most hardcore of hardcore will deal with all the ergonomical inconveniences of the VR gear. At least that's whats holding me back big time.
We also tend to gloss over the stat that 25-40% of people get nauseous from VR.

Consumer electronics that make people sick have historically struggled to find a market.
 
#32
It's pricing. The PC headsets are *slowly* coming down but still $399 for a Occulus Rift and the HTC Vive is $499.

Sony still has the Doom VR bundle at $299 and Skyrim Bundle for $350. The barebones headset is $199 but I've never
seen just the plain headset in the wild.

I think Sony needs discontinue the "standalone" $199 model and bring the Doom and Skyrim bundles down to $250(HDR headset, move controllers, camera and game)
Heck, if I were them, they could probably keep the camera out and get the bundles to $199 as a brand new camera costs $60 anyways.

My brother owns the newer HDR enabled Sony PSVR and it is AMAZING. Words don't do VR justice, it is something you have to experience in order to fully understand/appreciate
it.

Let's hope Sony can get those bundles to $199 and I bet they'd have a hard time keeping them on store shelves!
 
#33
Something that REALLY needs to be understood.
This doesn't really need to be understood because the simple reality of those other shops being a gross minority in VR shopping facilitating. They have limited game selections, they're more expensive in general and are not only less known but they're also less supported.

The end all be all of VR content is Steam and I'd wager easily the vast majority of purchases and players are on the platform. The simple reality that is also negated here is the fact that some of those games are not available outside of Steam and yet the numbers are still abysmal.
 
#34
I find it shocking how my town has these places at the mall where you can pay X amount of dollars to play the Vive for a couple minutes. There's also a place here that's a Virtual Reality Gaming Center. They even sell gift cards to play for an hour.

Does that money help support games being sold or VR headsets being sold? Not really, someone else bought a handful of devices and now they're charging someone else to play 1-3 copies of the same game.

I remember an arcade up here had Xbox 360's inside arcade cabinets for Street Fighter IV. A person would pay .50 cents and they'd get like 6 minutes of playtime. In reality no one wanted to spend $18k on a Street Fighter IV cabinet from Japan in 2008/2009.

I'm not saying these people are broke, but they aren't necessarily going to spend $1,000 to be VR ready at home. Maybe with the PS VR, but how long does that VR vibe last. To the average joe they can go to one of these VR centers and have their fun for an hour or more.
 
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#35
It's pricing. The PC headsets are *slowly* coming down but still $399 for a Occulus Rift and the HTC Vive is $499.

Sony still has the Doom VR bundle at $299 and Skyrim Bundle for $350. The barebones headset is $199 but I've never
seen just the plain headset in the wild.

I think Sony needs discontinue the "standalone" $199 model and bring the Doom and Skyrim bundles down to $250(HDR headset, move controllers, camera and game)
Heck, if I were them, they could probably keep the camera out and get the bundles to $199 as a brand new camera costs $60 anyways.

My brother owns the newer HDR enabled Sony PSVR and it is AMAZING. Words don't do VR justice, it is something you have to experience in order to fully understand/appreciate
it.

Let's hope Sony can get those bundles to $199 and I bet they'd have a hard time keeping them on store shelves!
The new headset isn't HDR enabled, the new processing unit simply allows HDR passthrough to the TV so you don't need to disconnect the device to have HDR when playing regular PS4 games that support HDR.
 
#36
No. It's just very early. The tech isn't there yet properly and the costs are too high. So now it's small enthusiast sector, but people experimenting with it now will bring tremendous advantages when the tech is ready for mass market
 
#37
This doesn't really need to be understood because the simple reality of those other shops being a gross minority in VR shopping facilitating. They have limited game selections, they're more expensive in general and are not only less known but they're also less supported.

The end all be all of VR content is Steam and I'd wager easily the vast majority of purchases and players are on the platform. The simple reality that is also negated here is the fact that some of those games are not available outside of Steam and yet the numbers are still abysmal.
This is LITERALLY incorrect. Come on man at least try to care about what you are talking about. Like how can someone be so wrong about something lol?
 
#39
We also tend to gloss over the stat that 25-40% of people get nauseous from VR.

Consumer electronics that make people sick have historically struggled to find a market.
Is that a real stat? That's way higher than I would have expected. Of all the people I have introduced to VR and those who have bought it on their own, I still haven't found a person I know in real life who has struggled with motion sickness. Everyone on the internet appears to, though. It makes sense that people would express it loudly.
 
#40
You have to remember that Steam is not the biggest store for VR games, the oculus store probably is. It has more exclusive content and bigger discounts than steam. You can also play through the oculus store with the Vive.
 
#41
Is that a real stat? That's way higher than I would have expected.
The source is behind a paywall unfortunately. Found it referenced here. (And now that I read it again I'm wondering if it meant "motion sickness while using VR" or just "motion sickness at any time, ever.")

Better stat sources are welcome.
 
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#42
Something that REALLY needs to be understood.
Hardly a persuasive defense however. We are constantly told that every PC gamer uses Steam and that Steam has over 100mil users. Those users do not have to pay the full entry price to get into VR (which includes buying a PC) and still those Steam stats are abysmal. You would think a $400 headset would be no big deal to PC gamers who spend so much already on hardware.

As for Sony they refuse to release hard numbers on PSVR sales and they closed the studio making RIGGS (the biggest 1st party PSVR title) without explanation (and despite promises to new PSVR owners that RIGGS would receive expansive post launch support). No new AAA has been announced for PSVR and there is still no AAA exclusive that justifies its existence (released or announced).

Add all that to the near absence of VR from E3 and it looks pretty dead to me. Hopefully it improves but it looks like folks jumped in before the tech was ready for prime time.
 
#43
Hardly a persuasive defense however. We are constantly told that every PC gamer uses Steam and that Steam has over 100mil users. Those users do not have to pay the full entry price to get into VR (which includes buying a PC) and still those Steam stats are abysmal. You would think a $400 headset would be no big deal to PC gamers who spend so much already on hardware.

As for Sony they refuse to release hard numbers on PSVR sales and they closed the studio making RIGGS (the biggest 1st party PSVR title) without explanation (and despite promises to new PSVR owners that RIGGS would receive expansive post launch support). No new AAA has been announced for PSVR and there is still no AAA exclusive that justifies its existence (released or announced).

Add all that to the near absence of VR from E3 and it looks pretty dead to me. Hopefully it improves but it looks like folks jumped in before the tech was ready for prime time.
What are you talking about with that point? Are you only referencing PSVR? Because Oculus store exists as well.
 
#44
It is not dead, it is now on its Atari years, before the enthusiasts really catch up to it (SNES years) and before the mass market gives it a hot chance (PSX years).

You just need to be patient, guys. The technology is here to stay and will become better from now on.
 
#46
Hardly a persuasive defense however. We are constantly told that every PC gamer uses Steam and that Steam has over 100mil users. Those users do not have to pay the full entry price to get into VR (which includes buying a PC) and still those Steam stats are abysmal. You would think a $400 headset would be no big deal to PC gamers who spend so much already on hardware.

As for Sony they refuse to release hard numbers on PSVR sales and they closed the studio making RIGGS (the biggest 1st party PSVR title) without explanation (and despite promises to new PSVR owners that RIGGS would receive expansive post launch support). No new AAA has been announced for PSVR and there is still no AAA exclusive that justifies its existence (released or announced).

Add all that to the near absence of VR from E3 and it looks pretty dead to me. Hopefully it improves but it looks like folks jumped in before the tech was ready for prime time.
Sony also shut down the studio that made DriveClub, it doesn't mean they are anti-driving games. And I disagree with no AAA VR games on VR. Well....to me for VR you have to change the definition of AAA for a VR game to some degree because it's so young.
 
#47
This week should be the week I finally pickup my PSVR, so I'm hoping its not dead haha I've got alot of stuff ordered in though to hopefully time up when I grab my VR, I prefer physical media so everything is actual physical copies.

On order;

Paranormal Activity: The Lost Soul
SuperhotVR
Job Simulator

Already have;
Resident Evil 7
Gran Turismo Sport
Star Wars Battlefront I & II

Still to grab;
Skyrim

Worst case scenario I'll end up owning one of the first VR's mass marketed to the public, possibly the Vitruaboy of the Playstation! I think the $250-$300 price point CAD is decent to get consumers to jump in to VR.
 
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#48
I really like PS VR. I use it for whenever I have guests over because the tech absolutely blows peoples minds.

The real problem becomes long-term game play which it just functionally cannot do. In short doses 15-30 minutes VR is fantastic, anything more than this and you run into a slew of issues

-Neck pain - device is just too heavy for long term use
-Blurred vision- after awhile there does create eye strain
-Practicality - not being able to do anything else but the game makes the ease of use dip tremendously

It's fun for parties, it's fun in general, it's not a long term gaming device by any means.
 
#49
I want to buy PS VR one day but I'm still not sure which versions actually support HDR 4K pass-through for PS4 Pro usage due to lack of clear branding (fix that mess Sony)
 

diablos991

Can’t stump the diablos
#50
It is dead. Maybe we will see something interesting when tech progresses enough.

For now though it is dead and I am not sad about it. (Coming from a guy who owned a Rift at launch)