Islam and ISIS animation (Islam has nothing to do with ISIS)

Oct 21, 2014
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Great video. Now if there was only a way to share this without being imprisoned?

Using violence to enforce your religion is unacceptable. Not being able to accept criticism of your religion makes your religion look weak. Practice Islam all you want. Be as Muslim as you want.

Just, and this is the difficult to understand and racist bit, stop killing the infidel and grow up.

LGBTQ+ rights are a good thing too, overall. Sorry Muslims!

I don't want to be Muslim, I don't like your religion. Sorry. And I am so sorry that I voiced this reasonable, rational criticism.
 
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cryptoadam

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Feb 21, 2018
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Who really cares, just look at most of the majority Muslim countries and see what happens. Look at all the various other terrorist groups like Al-Shabab, Hizbullah, Hamas, Boka Harem, the Muslim Brotherhood, etc. Fuck even the Philippines has Islamic terrorist.
 
May 26, 2018
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#9
If isis has everything to do with islam then does this mean that islam has everything to do with isis? Does this mean my muslim neighbors are literally isis?
Isis is following the Qu'ran. Compared to other religions, Qu'ran is the word of god, not an interpretation like the Bible. Therefore any Muslim against Isis is going against their god.

What we can presume is that the so called peaceful muslims are infidels thinking they're actual Muslims or they're decieving infidels until they reach a certain majority in a population, which the Qu'ran allows. Your Muslim neighbour is one of the 2
 
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Dec 23, 2008
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#10
Isis is following the Qu'ran. Compared to other religions, Qu'ran is the word of god, not an interpretation like the Bible. Therefore any Muslim against Isis is going against their god.

What we can presume is that the so called peaceful muslims are infidels thinking they're actual Muslims or they're decieving infidels until they reach a certain majority in a population, which the Qu'ran allows. Your Muslim neighbour is one of the 2
Word of god or not, you can quiz the average muslim or christian or jewish person on their respective religious texts and you know no one will be spot on about anything. And that is because religion as a whole, especially as it is today, is more of a moderate cultural thing than it is a word-for-word doctrine. No normal person will practice a religion that technically. You'd need to have a serious case of paranoia to consider your second option.
 
Apr 15, 2018
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Word of god or not, you can quiz the average muslim or christian or jewish person on their respective religious texts and you know no one will be spot on about anything. And that is because religion as a whole, especially as it is today, is more of a moderate cultural thing than it is a word-for-word doctrine. No normal person will practice a religion that technically. You'd need to have a serious case of paranoia to consider your second option.
It has nothing to do with normal. Culture changes as the population grows. The higher and more powerful the population, the more the culture will allow fundamental doctrine.

They aren't "normal". They are just outnumbered.
 

cryptoadam

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Word of god or not, you can quiz the average muslim or christian or jewish person on their respective religious texts and you know no one will be spot on about anything. And that is because religion as a whole, especially as it is today, is more of a moderate cultural thing than it is a word-for-word doctrine. No normal person will practice a religion that technically. You'd need to have a serious case of paranoia to consider your second option.
Which is exactly what ISIS is. They are practicing Islam so technically. Read up on what Mohammad did during his time.
 
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Dec 23, 2008
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#14
Which is exactly what ISIS is. They are practicing Islam so technically. Read up on what Mohammad did during his time.
I'm aware. No religion is pretty when you look into it. But if it wasn't clear, we are talking about today. Isis is bad. Any sane person will agree. Ahmed the 22 year old hardcore game of thrones fan anime fucking nerd who ate pepperoni on a dare once who lives down the street and prays at the local mosque? Not Isis. Mohammad Ali? Great boxer. Isis? Idk. Dave Chappelle. Incredible comedian. But the only thing he'll terrorize is your sides.
 
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cryptoadam

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I'm aware. No religion is pretty when you look into it. But if it wasn't clear, we are talking about today. Isis is bad. Any sane person will agree. Ahmed the 22 year old hardcore game of thrones fan anime fucking nerd who ate pepperoni on a dare once who lives down the street and prays at the local mosque? Not Isis. Mohammad Ali? Great boxer. Isis? Idk. Dave Chappelle. Incredible comedian. But the only thing he'll terrorize is your sides.
Yes of course most muslims aren't terrorist, especially western ones.

My point is that ISIS is practicing a version of Islam that is a lot closer to 7th century in Mohammads time Islam then most modern day muslims are.
 
Dec 23, 2008
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#16
Yes of course most muslims aren't terrorist, especially western ones.

My point is that ISIS is practicing a version of Islam that is a lot closer to 7th century in Mohammads time Islam then most modern day muslims are.
Good. If people can see clearly the distinction between modern day muslims vs. islam in the past in line with every other religion, (and I'm sure people do) then we are in agreement. People are good and they mean well. All grandmothers are cute everywhere.

And so this is the problem I have with the video. It takes a catch all jab at the religion, which takes a catch all jab at muslims in general. Go to town on Isis. They deserve to be denutted into oblivion. Bring no mercy. Do what you gotta do. But you gotta see how the video can be abrasive to those who don't deserve it.
 
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Mar 3, 2014
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Yeah, when you're in a minority you play by the rules. But when you become the majority there's no incentive to adopt the culture of the former majority (now minority). It's all about demographics at the end of the day. Demography is destiny.
 
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Sep 26, 2018
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I think it is obvious that most adherents of any major religion is non devout and few knows the full history of their religion.

What sets islam apart however, is the jihad doctrine. All able moslem who have come of age is obligated to partake in jihad or support those who do.

Moslems who wants nothing to do with jihad are non devout or ignorant of islam.
 
Dec 23, 2008
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#20
I'm saying that how someone practices a religion is heavily determined by how powerful they feel they are in the population. To look at muslims, who live in a society where they are a extreme minority, and proclaim them as the "normal" ones is foolish.
So if I'm getting this right: Muslims (presumably in the United States) are currently a minority, and if they were to potentially become a majority then the chances of them restoring their original dark age ways go up?

I don't think we're using the term "normal" in the same sense here..
 
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So if I'm getting this right: Muslims (presumably in the United States) are currently a minority, and if they were to potentially become a majority then the chances of them restoring their original dark age ways go up?

I don't think we're using the term "normal" in the same sense here..
If they were the majority, the culture would reflect that. Their would be little to no pushback against fundamentalist islamic ideas and proposals

Let's do a thought experiment. Lets assume that every christian in America, every christian and secular tradition was replaced by an islamic one. Do you really think our culture would still be the same? Our laws and constitution would be the same? Our cultural values would remain the same?
 
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#23
If they were the majority, the culture would reflect that. Their would be little to no pushback against fundamentalist islamic ideas and proposals

Let's do a thought experiment. Lets assume that every christian in America, every christian and secular tradition was replaced by an islamic one. Do you really think our culture would still be the same? Our laws and constitution would be the same? Our cultural values would remain the same?
Well, first off I'm not sure how this relates to what my response to this thread is about, which has to do with why Islam from the origin days and isis should not represent Islam as it is today and to Target isis if you're looking for a Target at all.

What you're saying seems like a very hypothetical power balance issue, which I'm not sure why it's an issue at all. There's just no way to tell and we can both come up with a million possibilities. I don't see the value of talking about it. Anything either of us comes up with will be fiction.

The picture I see being painted here is Islam eventually becomes the predominant religion in the United States. Mosques replace churches, synagogues, Buddhist temples, Hindu temples, Korean church vans blink out of existence and the United States must submit to dark age policies. Is this not a ridiculously wacky idea to entertain at all?

Or do you believe this is legitimately possible? Would you prefer that Muslims exit the country in order to preserve a more ideal society?
 
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Jun 20, 2018
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What you're saying seems like a very hypothetical power balance issue, which I'm not sure why it's an issue at all. There's just no way to tell and we can both come up with a million possibilities. I don't see the value of talking about it. Anything either of us comes up with will be fiction.
Yeah.. no way to tell what would happen.. except almost the entire history and even near history of islam.
 
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Well, first off I'm not sure how this relates to what my response to this thread is about, which has to do with why Islam from the origin days and isis should not represent Islam as it is today and to Target isis if you're looking for a Target at all.

What you're saying seems like a very hypothetical power balance issue, which I'm not sure why it's an issue at all. There's just no way to tell and we can both come up with a million possibilities. I don't see the value of talking about it. Anything either of us comes up with will be fiction.

The picture I see being painted here is Islam eventually becomes the predominant religion in the United States. Mosques replace churches, synagogues, Buddhist temples, Hindu temples, Korean church vans blink out of existence and the United States must submit to dark age policies. Is this not a ridiculously wacky idea to entertain at all?

Or do you believe this is legitimately possible? Would you prefer that Muslims exit the country in order to preserve a more ideal society?
My point is simple. The moderate Islam you see is influenced by the context surrounding it. You change that context, you change Islam.

The video mocks the idea that ISIS and Islam are exclusively different entities, but they aren't. ISIS is just Islam in a different context. An Islam that has tons of societal power, and little to no pushback.
 
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#29
My point is simple. The moderate Islam you see is influenced by the context surrounding it. You change that context, you change Islam.

The video mocks the idea that ISIS and Islam are exclusively different entities, but they aren't. ISIS is just Islam in a different context. An Islam that has tons of societal power, and little to no pushback.
I get what you're saying. But again, it is hilariously implausible for the scenario I gave to come into existence. (Unless you have something else in mind, in which case, please share) Okay, so the context of America changes. Now you're suddenly a muslim by law or off with your head. We are talking about a United States where burkas/hijabs are mandatory. This is all in a first world country full of diversity, pop music, video games and football. Why even bother entertaining such a bizarre thought?
 
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It's amazing how everyone keeps on blaming the religion and not the countries who have constantly fucked with with the middle for the past 2 centuries yes I'm sure it's the religion and not that people lives have were destroyed family's murder and living in starvation is what pushes to extremism it's always the same go in a country destroy it until you can put a puppet and then raise your nose and complain about all the brown people who are coming and why there not fixing there country .
 
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Vow

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Western powers have long used Islam as a proxy fighting force and encouraged its most violent interpretation, Wahhabism, so it can be directed at will. Islam was a religion spread by the sword, but it also has mystical aspects such as Sufism which are transcendent, and jihad can be interpreted as a spiritual struggle. Western backing of Wahhabism has definitely affected Islam's spread and development.

There's two ways of looking at this. One is to imagine that there is an overarching conspiracy to destroy western civilisation - the other is to look at it as unintended consequences. Given what Western powers have done in the Middle East, I think the manipulated regression of Islam into a proxy army by three letter agencies is mostly unintended consequences and now we're effectively riding a tiger, witnessing extreme blowback as it's taken on a life of its own and is no longer controllable, see the Manchester bomber for example. Along with this there is now strong reaction amongst the populace against Wahhabism in host western countries, which itself needs controlling. It's a tinderbox.

However, if Islam was not a religion that was effectively created by an imperialistic warlord, and was not fully capable of being made into a war machine with a very straightforward interpretation of its teachings we wouldn't have this issue. As Islam spread and mixed with other cultures after its expansive stage it mellowed, but Islam has effectively been purposefully stunted at a developmental stage conducive to war. Like Binary Helix trying to control the Rachni. The Rachni Queen is of course a Sufi mystic.

Some links:

https://www.amazon.com/Mosque-Munich-Ian-Johnson/dp/0547423179
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2007/nov/22/chechnya.tomparfitt

The only way out of this is for as many people as possible to become aware of this history. The disheartening thing is though you could imagine hardcore Wahhabists knowing this already and saying it's all part of the plan for the spread of Islam and the establishment of a global Caliphate. Also Western governments won't openly admit to all this either as it would create a massive credibility crisis - but it's too late. There is already a massive credibility crisis.

Going to be an interesting few decades.