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ISRO Chandrayaan 2 Moon Landing LIVE / ISRO loses contact with lander minutes before scheduled landing

Thaedolus

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You bombarded me with demands to “synthesize” “summerys” about the things you brought up or else I shouldn’t speak about such matters.

They sent a space ship to the moon and didn’t film it with video cameras. I have my suspicions...
it’s almost like you’re ignoring the fact that when Apollo 8 orbited the moon they took the most famous picture of earth from beyond LEO...


Or that we continue to take pictures of earth from beyond LEO:


Or that there’s a famous passage from Carl Sagan dedicated to this image of earth from millions of miles away


But...you know, this latest thing the Indian space program is up to (which ended in failure btw) seems real suspicious!
 

Weilthain

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it’s almost like you’re ignoring the fact that when Apollo 8 orbited the moon they took the most famous picture of earth from beyond LEO...


Or that we continue to take pictures of earth from beyond LEO:


Or that there’s a famous passage from Carl Sagan dedicated to this image of earth from millions of miles away


But...you know, this latest thing the Indian space program is up to (which ended in failure btw) seems real suspicious!
Do you think they have budgetary reasons for not filming it, or technical reasons?
 

Thaedolus

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Do you think they have budgetary reasons for not filming it, or technical reasons?
I have no idea why there isn't video, or if there actually isn't any video, but my inference from that doesn't go to "suspicious" because I see no point in some sort of hoax that ends in a crash landing. If there's any fuckery going on, why make it fail in the end? If you think past your first question a little bit, you can quickly resolve your suspicions.
 

Weilthain

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I have no idea why there isn't video, or if there actually isn't any video, but my inference from that doesn't go to "suspicious" because I see no point in some sort of hoax that ends in a crash landing. If there's any fuckery going on, why make it fail in the end? If you think past your first question a little bit, you can quickly resolve your suspicions.
I have no idea why there isn't video, or if there actually isn't any video, but my inference from that doesn't go to "suspicious" because I see no point in some sort of hoax that ends in a crash landing. If there's any fuckery going on, why make it fail in the end? If you think past your first question a little bit, you can quickly resolve your suspicions.
I’m never going to stop expecting some film footage or photos from these events. You can say I’m not thinking past the first step, but from my view you are just trying to downplay and divert attention from the fact they didn’t capture any footage of earth from space. It should be demanded from space nerds. Yet they defend it.

“Hey guys the rocket is in space anyway, going to the moon. Why aren’t you putting cameras on there.”

“wow you are an idiot, haven’t you seen this picture from 1969?”

“....the rocket is right there though...”

“You are clearly a fool”
 
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Thaedolus

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I’m never going to stop expecting some film footage or photos from these events. You can say I’m not thinking past the first step, but from my view you are just trying to downplay and divert attention from the fact they didn’t capture any footage of earth from space. It should be demanded from space nerds. Yet they defend it.
Except I've shown you multiple examples of how we continue to take photos of Earth and capture these events. Tell me, are all the world governments in on some sort of conspiracy here? Because some of the photos I linked to were from Japan's space program. What exactly is so suspicious here? What are you suspicious of? You won't even put something like that on the table.

“Hey guys the rocket is in space anyway, going to the moon. Why aren’t you putting cameras on there.”

“wow you are an idiot, haven’t you seen this picture from 1969?”

“....the rocket is right there though...”

“You are clearly a fool”
I'm not sure what else to make of someone who's touting "suspicions" but won't actually say what they are and what they relate to. You call someone a shill who walks through why fakery in the 60's would've been impossible, you link to a 3 hour documentary in Italian and expect an English-speaking forum to respond to it, and you throw out generalized nonsense which doesn't even take any sort of position here. I'm not calling you a fool, but you certainly are behaving in a way that seems similar to a lot of fools I've encountered.
 
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Weilthain

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Except I've shown you multiple examples of how we continue to take photos of Earth and capture these events. Tell me, are all the world governments in on some sort of conspiracy here? Because some of the photos I linked to were from Japan's space program. What exactly is so suspicious here? What are you suspicious of? You won't even put something like that on the table.



I'm not sure what else to make of someone who's touting "suspicions" but won't actually say what they are and what they relate to. You call someone a shill who walks through why fakery in the 60's would've been impossible, you like to a 3 hour documentary in Italian and expect an English-speaking forum to respond to it, and you throw out generalized nonsense which doesn't even take any sort of position here. I'm not calling you a fool, but you certainly are behaving in a way that seems similar to a lot of fools I've encountered.
You are just going to have to accept that I am very aware of what the official pictures and videos are, as well as what they claim to have sent into space.

I’m telling you why I think it’s all shite and you are talking to me almost like I had offended your religion.

You think that picture of the Israel flag in front of the moon is proof of something.

I think it’s incredibly stupid fall for that considering both the technology we have today as well as what they achieved in the Apollo missions. Supposedly.
 

Thaedolus

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You are just going to have to accept that I am very aware of what the official pictures and videos are, as well as what they claim to have sent into space.

I’m telling you why I think it’s all shite and you are talking to me almost like I had offended your religion.

You think that picture of the Israel flag in front of the moon is proof of something.

I think it’s incredibly stupid fall for that considering both the technology we have today as well as what they achieved in the Apollo missions. Supposedly.
You’ve not once explained why it’s all shite. Can you?
 
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Thaedolus

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No cameras, no video, just computer simulation screens. It’s faith based. It’s an illusion.
Who's creating an illusion? Why are they spending resources to do it? What are you suspicious of?

Just think this through. How many thousands of people would have to be in on creating the illusion? I gave you a video explaining why it couldn't have been an illusion in the 60s for technological reasons, but why would someone even think it necessary to create some fake mission today? Where's the incentive? We've already landed a dozen probes on the moon. Also, if they're creating an illusion, why not go all the way and pretend to have a successful landing? There's no motive here to fake anything. It's silly to think there's more to it.
 

Weilthain

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Who's creating an illusion? Why are they spending resources to do it? What are you suspicious of?

Just think this through. How many thousands of people would have to be in on creating the illusion? I gave you a video explaining why it couldn't have been an illusion in the 60s for technological reasons, but why would someone even think it necessary to create some fake mission today? Where's the incentive? We've already landed a dozen probes on the moon. Also, if they're creating an illusion, why not go all the way and pretend to have a successful landing? There's no motive here to fake anything. It's silly to think there's more to it.
Some think it’s about money, some even say it’s because the earth is flat.
 

Tesseract

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imagine thinking all these individual (not compartmentalized) people are in on whatever 'it' is
 

MetalAlien

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imagine thinking all these individual (not compartmentalized) people are in on whatever 'it' is
That's the reason I don't buy any conspiracy. Humans can't agree on anything, Yet we are suppose to believe 1000s if not 10s of 1000s of people are all suppose to agree to tell the same lie.
 
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Weilthain

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imagine thinking all these individual (not compartmentalized) people are in on whatever 'it' is
No serious moon landing denier actually claims that everyone is in on it.

When you type anything related to moonlanding into the internet you just get the google/YouTube approved shills and they actively censor genuine videos to the point they are hard to find even if you know the exact title of the video.

As well as the no proof angle it’s the censorship that makes me thinking something’s up.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Is there a technical/engineering reason why cameras aren't used more widely for taking footage during spaceflight attempts? I mean, of the 1000s of variables to keep in mind when engineering a craft that can drop a probe on the moon, a selfie-stick that lets you see 100% of the transit isn't necessarily a priority. It's not like it will help you navigate better, and it's not like there is no camera footage, there's just "suspiciously insufficient" footage.
 

Thaedolus

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No serious moon landing denier actually claims that everyone is in on it.

When you type anything related to moonlanding into the internet you just get the google/YouTube approved shills and they actively censor genuine videos to the point they are hard to find even if you know the exact title of the video.

As well as the no proof angle it’s the censorship that makes me thinking something’s up.
Your 3 hour video supposedly debunking the Apollo landings is hosted by YouTube bruh.
 

Weilthain

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Your 3 hour video supposedly debunking the Apollo landings is hosted by YouTube bruh.
Do you not believe me that they are censoring them?

Or you think there was some kind of irony there that I’m unaware of?
 

Thaedolus

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Do you not believe me that they are censoring them?

Or you think there was some kind of irony there that I’m unaware of?
Censored how? As in altering the videos once uploaded? Nah, that would be caught immediately and well known. Actively suppressing the videos from showing up in your feed? Nah, quite to the contrary, YouTube's algorithm will send you down rabbit holes almost immediately if you watch one of these tinfoil hat videos. You can get all sorts of bullshit flat earth "information" all over YouTube, you can get all sorts of moon landing hoax videos, you can get all sorts of 9/11 inside job videos, etc. Google cares more about keeping your eyeballs on the screen and tinfoily videos sure can suck people in, which is why the algorithm keeps suggesting them once you watch a couple.

Someone like Alex Jones getting deplatformed is more about him being an asshole that harasses people and actually incites harmful shit. Some loon in mom's basement splicing together hours of footage to prove the Earth is flat because he hasn't left the house in a month isn't harming anything except your brain cells.
 

Weilthain

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Censored how? As in altering the videos once uploaded? Nah, that would be caught immediately and well known. Actively suppressing the videos from showing up in your feed? Nah, quite to the contrary, YouTube's algorithm will send you down rabbit holes almost immediately if you watch one of these tinfoil hat videos. You can get all sorts of bullshit flat earth "information" all over YouTube, you can get all sorts of moon landing hoax videos, you can get all sorts of 9/11 inside job videos, etc. Google cares more about keeping your eyeballs on the screen and tinfoily videos sure can suck people in, which is why the algorithm keeps suggesting them once you watch a couple.

Someone like Alex Jones getting deplatformed is more about him being an asshole that harasses people and actually incites harmful shit. Some loon in mom's basement splicing together hours of footage to prove the Earth is flat because he hasn't left the house in a month isn't harming anything except your brain cells.
Just type in fake moon landings and see what comes up.
 

Thaedolus

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Just type in fake moon landings and see what comes up.
How about this: you start making actual assertions about where you think I’m getting things wrong and show your work for how you came to that conclusion. This would entail bringing up some actual facts and an argumentative rationale that coherently applies some logic. Then, I get to review said work and decide if I disagree or agree and need to change my mind about something. That’s usually how a conversation works.

Posting a 3 hour video in a language I don’t understand or asking loaded questions doesn’t count. While you work on that I’m going to go to my real world job at a real company that deals with real issues.
 

Weilthain

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How about this: you start making actual assertions about where you think I’m getting things wrong and show your work for how you came to that conclusion. This would entail bringing up some actual facts and an argumentative rationale that coherently applies some logic. Then, I get to review said work and decide if I disagree or agree and need to change my mind about something. That’s usually how a conversation works.

Posting a 3 hour video in a language I don’t understand or asking loaded questions doesn’t count. While you work on that I’m going to go to my real world job at a real company that deals with real issues.
They sent rockets to land on the moon twice this year. Didn’t film them at all.

That seems fine to you. Not to me.

I’m not going write out a big laundry list of the reasons I think the moon missions are fake.

I’m not actually trying to convince you of anything either but you seem convinced that I am.

At most I’m making people think why they aren’t filming in space.

Maybe someone will look into it, and they might learn something, maybe not. You can lead a man to ideas but you can’t make him think, if you catch my meaning.

Enjoy work, it’s beer o’clock here so I’m going to start winding down. Flat earth talk may or may not come out once I’ve had a drink I give no guarantees.

Rentahamster Rentahamster is he allowed to say that to me? Please advise
 
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Insane Metal

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When will we have more info on what exactly happened? Guess they're analysing thousands of lines of code or whatever to try and figure out what happened.
 

Thaedolus

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I’m not going write out a big laundry list of the reasons I think the moon missions are fake.

I’m not actually trying to convince you of anything either but you seem convinced that I am.
Rentahamster Rentahamster is he allowed to say that to me? Please advise
Then I'm not sure what you're doing in a thread like this. If you're not trying to convince anyone, then just don't bother posting. If you are, show some receipts. That's all I'm asking for.

EDIT

Take this video:


You seem to think it weird I find nothing really suspicious about there not being a live feed of the Earth for the entirety of the flight, start to crash. I don't find it odd at all because I already know a lot of things about how the real world works.

1) Would this part of the mission be adding any value? No. It's not going to prove the Earth is round or that we can land on the moon to anyone who thinks otherwise because to get to that mindset in this day and age and given the information available already makes someone like that a loon. It's not proving anything new to anyone with knowledge and expertise enough to matter. Also: we have tons of footage from outside LEO. It's not a value add to this project.

2) Would this part of the mission be adding cost or expenditure of resources? Yes. This thing has been in space since July. Continuously streaming video would take valuable energy that could be expended on something useful in the mission.

3) Are there other plausible alternatives to there being something "suspicious," which would support some asinine conspiracy theory? Absolutely. Look at that video I linked above. It sounds like the optical equipment was to be used for tracking the craft's speed and descent rate? And it wasn't showing up at mission control like expected? Maybe something in the optics system failed, the vehicle lost tracking and tumbled out of control?

4) All of the above are profoundly more convincing for why there's no video feed from this craft in particular than the idea that 10s of thousands of people from space programs across the globe, US to the EU to Russia to Japan to India to China are just faking all of this for....seemingly no reason. Money? I don't think NASA engineers are rich bud. Convincing us the Earth is round vs. flat? What possible reason could there be to tell such a lie in such elaborate ways?

At the end of the day, reality is way more benign than you seem to think. There's no elaborate global hoax, and almost always the simplest explanation for something holds true. There wasn't a live video stream of the whole mission because that wasn't in the plans because it probably cost money with no real reward.
 
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Cybrwzrd

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The biggest reason not to film the craft flying to the moon is weight savings. Especially back in the 60s.

Today, it’s still expensive to add an extra few kgs to have some sort of camera on the craft, plus the extra complexity involved....

You can’t just strap a GoPro to spaceship and expect it to work.
 

Weilthain

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The biggest reason not to film the craft flying to the moon is weight savings. Especially back in the 60s.

Today, it’s still expensive to add an extra few kgs to have some sort of camera on the craft, plus the extra complexity involved....

You can’t just strap a GoPro to spaceship and expect it to work.
In the 60s there were men inside the lander with video cameras. On later missions, they took a moon buggy, golf clubs etc. Batteries to broadcast the live feed etc. You think they can’t build a light weight camera into their space ship?

Israel claims to have a cheesy photo when they were “at the moon”. They did have a camera, how about that? I guess you can have cameras on these missions.

I wonder why they don’t film the earth floating in space.
 
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Cybrwzrd

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In the 60s there were men inside the lander with video cameras. On later missions, they took a moon buggy, golf clubs etc. Batteries to broadcast the live feed etc. You think they can’t build a light weight camera into their space ship?

Israel claims took have a cheesy photo when they were “at the moon”. They did have a camera, how about that? I guess you can have cameras on these missions.

I wonder why they don’t film the earth floating in space.
60s film tech. It’s not like they could throw it all on an SSD 🤣 even then, do you know that we literally have automotive electric systems that fail on the one in a million chance that the decay of a single radioactive particle in the packaging surrounding the IC corrupts an electron in a eMMC package? Cause it happens. In space that bombardment is many, many times higher.
 

Weilthain

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60s film tech. It’s not like they could throw it all on an SSD 🤣 even then, do you know that we literally have automotive electric systems that fail on the one in a million chance that the decay of a single radioactive particle in the packaging surrounding the IC corrupts an electron in a eMMC package? Cause it happens. In space that bombardment is many, many times higher.
You said it was a weight issue. Now it’s radioactive particles that stop us filming in space?
 

Cybrwzrd

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You said it was a weight issue. Now it’s radioactive particles that stop us filming in space?
In the modern era. Yes. Back in the 60’s tho? That shit was all film. Granted they did directly broadcast from the moon, when the antennae aligned with receivers on the earth.

It takes ~3 days to get to the moon. Do you really expect a 72 hour video to be saved of the earth slowly getting smaller and smaller? It would be cool as fuck, granted. But it’s not necessary.
 
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Weilthain

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In the modern era. Yes. Back in the 60’s tho? That shit was all film. Granted they did directly broadcast from the moon, when the antennae aligned with receivers on the earth.

It takes ~3 days to get to the moon. Do you really expect a 72 hour video to be saved of the earth slowly getting smaller and smaller? It would be cool as fuck, granted. But it’s not necessary.
Of course I expect them to film it. Why wouldn’t they?
 

Cybrwzrd

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Of course I expect them to film it. Why wouldn’t they?
Why waste the space and weight? In the 60s? The modern era has data corruption issues with high density memory devices.
 

Weilthain

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Why waste the space and weight? In the 60s? The modern era has data corruption issues with high density memory devices.
You would “waste” the space and weight to film the earth floating in space. If the cameras don’t work (they do work) you make them work and if it’s too heavy (it’s not too heavy) then you make them lightweight.
 

DocONally

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Hang on a minute...

So the world's best scientists and engineers sent a spaceship, which humanity has had for over 50 years and can basically be built in a garage nowadays, to the moon which is next door on the cosmic street, and they say they lost it?

Yeah, no. That's a cover up if I ever saw one.
 
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Cybrwzrd

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You would “waste” the space and weight to film the earth floating in space. If the cameras don’t work (they do work) you make them work and if it’s too heavy (it’s not too heavy) then you make them lightweight.
Ok, you agree satellites exist right? You don’t dispute SpaceX’s launch of a Roadster into space? But you can’t grasp that a trip to the moon occurred. Even though you can verify the landing via the reflector on the moon with a laser.

Dude, go back to fire can’t melt steel beams. It’s not nearly as insane as moon hoaxers.
 
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Weilthain

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Ok, you agree satellites exist right? You don’t dispute SpaceX’s launch of a Roadster into space? But you can’t grasp that a trip to the moon occurred. Even though you can verify the landing via the reflector on the moon with a laser.

Dude, go back to fire can’t melt steel beams. It’s not nearly as insane as moon hoaxers.
SpaceX car in space is fake yes. Satellites I have my doubts. Those buildings came down with controlled demolition.
 
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Rentahamster

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I wonder why they don’t film the earth floating in space.
I dunno if you're just specifying Israel only or not, but Japan has a satellite that takes a picture of the entire Earth every 10 minutes in order to track weather patterns.


 

Weilthain

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Those could easily be composite images.
I dunno if you're just specifying Israel only or not, but Japan has a satellite that takes a picture of the entire Earth every 10 minutes in order to track weather patterns.


 

Rentahamster

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Those could easily be composite images.
They are composite images. What does that have to do with their authenticity?

Any photographer who knows what they're talking about will tell you that a sensor is only so big, so in order to take a picture of something that's really huge (such as the Earth), multiple pictures have to be taken and then stitched together. It's how panoramas work. It's how Google Street View works, it's how 3D virtual tours of hotel rooms work.
 

Weilthain

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They are composite images. What does that have to do with their authenticity?

Any photographer who knows what they're talking about will tell you that a sensor is only so big, so in order to take a picture of something that's really huge (such as the Earth), multiple pictures have to be taken and then stitched together. It's how panoramas work. It's how Google Street View works, it's how 3D virtual tours of hotel rooms work.
What do you think you would see if they put cameras on the spaceships that went to the moon?

The India spacecraft orbited the earth gradually getting further away from earth each orbit, to reach the moon.

Do you think there can’t be orbiting cameras at that distance?


I think you are confusing the Japanese satellite which I believe they do claim is a real picture, with NASAs blue marble picture by r.simmons.

The “it is photoshopped, but it has to be” guy.
 
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Rentahamster

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What do you think you would see if they put cameras on the spaceships that went to the moon?
This?


The India spacecraft orbited the earth gradually getting further away from earth, to reach the moon.

Do you think there can’t be orbiting cameras at that distance?
I think there definitely could be orbiting cameras at that distance. So what? Do you think a camera orbiting further away would make for a better weather satellite? Why is that?
 

Weilthain

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This?



I think there definitely could be orbiting cameras at that distance. So what? Do you think a camera orbiting further away would make for a better weather satellite? Why is that?
A real time live video of the earth in space Vs composite images created on a computer using data from high altitude weather balloons and then superimposed onto a 3d model of the earth?