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[Kai Dracon]

You know, to try and be fair, I think there's been a lot of forced acclimation this generation for many people who either don't game on PCs or are simply used to heavily segregating consoles and PCs in their mind.

This gen's consoles are obviously extremely PC-like in terms of their updatability, OS revisions, and game patches. There is some culture shock here, and for some people, the idea that their consoles are much more subject to interruption is more powerful than the reality itself. In reality, the total number of OS updates is infrequent even on the PS3 (which seems determined to beat Team Fortress 2 for patch count), and when you're on a broadband connection, game updates are again, painless. Only a few games such as LittleBigPlanet were update-crazy during their heaviest periods of post-release development.

But I can't blame some folks for feeling a bit put off. Yeah, this guy made a rant, but it's not like there's no shortage of drummed up vitriol on the internet.

 

[mollipen]

You know, to try and be fair, I think there's been a lot of forced acclimation this generation for many people who either don't game on PCs or are simply used to heavily segregating consoles and PCs in their mind.

To be fair, the one PC game I have a lot of experience with is World of Warcraft, and the patching system in that game is god-awful.

 

[luka]

But I can't blame some folks for feeling a bit put off. Yeah, this guy made a rant, but it's not like there's no shortage of drummed up vitriol on the internet.

I personally wouldn't have reacted so strongly to the article if it hadn't come from an otherwise respectable site like ars technica. It was quite a shock for me. That's the kind of article lesser sites like Tom's resort to when traffic is down.

 

[soco]

This is a very important point.

really? REALLY?

that which you're pointing out can be done in that way on both systems and isn't an issue specific to the 360 as it deals with DLC and will also likely occur in PS3 games as well for people who haven't bought it. there's also cases where it doesn't occur on the 360.

~~~

i'm in the same boat as the complaint. PS3 updates for me take ages and i made sure not to use the WiFi on it to avoid any potential issues that may or may not have been true.

 

[fernoca]

Plus on the 360 version they also offer the option to download the packs. Like with Fable II and Burnout Paradise. So is not like you can't play online with others and don't see what they see.

 

[Stinkles]

OH MY GOD. THE AMOUNT OF DRAMA QUEENS IN THIS THREAD STAGGERS ME!!

Turn on PS3, go to System Update, hit right dpad 2 times and then X (30 seconds). Come back to posting on GAF and whine about how you lost 30 seconds of your life.

Two exclamations, all caps and bold. Irony confirmed.

 

[Stink]

This is the main reason why I pay for Playstation+, (and also why I didn't own an Xbox 360 during the RROD period for that matter - the prospect of a 30% chance of starting the weekend with an RROD was simply not acceptable). Downtime is for chumps. When a game says there is a patch, I just hit cancel. Plus will get it for me.

Having all this shit sorted overnight for the equivalent of two hours salary per year is more than worth it. I wouldn't trade complexity for fewer patches, because console gaming is dumbed down enough as it is.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

All I know is that the last time I wanted to play Singstar, I had to wait 20 minutes for the 3.4 Firmware update, 20 more for a bunch of game patches and 5 more while everything installed.

It has been months since I played this game. The system shouldn't try to actively disincentivise me from doing this by rewarding my impulse with interminable delays and FORCING me to download bullshit I don't even use.

 

[Katana_Strikes]

Don't have any problem with the firmware updates or downloads speeds of said update or games from the Store. If he/she wanted to moan about anything download related, they should have pointed it at the shitty patch system of games, like PAIN, GT5P etc. which can take absolutely forever.

 

[spwolf]

funniest thing ever was that due to reduced number of updates to the firmware, before last update a lot of people were bitching how sony isnt releasing a lot of updates/improvements anymore

and important thing to note is that firmware also always updates a lot of things in the background, adding/improving things to developers that might not be immediately obvious.

not to mention that sony did introduce patching and most people timed last update to less than 5 minutes.

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

funniest thing ever was that due to reduced number of updates to the firmware, before last update a lot of people were bitching how sony isnt releasing a lot of updates/improvements anymore

and important thing to note is that firmware also always updates a lot of things in the background, adding/improving things to developers that might not be immediately obvious.

not to mention that sony did introduce patching and most people timed last update to less than 5 minutes.

Doesn't change the fact that forced downloads prior to playing is still doing it wrong.

 

[Snipes424]

This whole getting mad over Firmware updates is stupid. FW updates for the PS3 occur at around the same rate as a patch for WoW.

Guess what? If you don't turn on your PS3 for 2-3months, you are going to have to patch, if you don't play WoW for 2-3months, you are going to have to patch.

People who get upset over it, really need to get upset over something more important.

 

[BoilersFan23]

The problem is that Sony created PS3 updates (while PS3 was in development) to where in order to add/remove any features, you had to re-download an entire firmware file of over 80-100MB+. This was designed into the PS3 long before 360 was out. Even for just minor fixes, the same file had to be re-downloaded. Early PS3 games were the same way for updates, such as MotorStorm, Resistance, and Hot Shots Golf 5. Old PSN games had to be re-downloaded from the PS Store to add features and overwritten (no patching). However, it appeared Sony did update development kits sometime in 2007, to where games could finally just be patched where you download a small file size (around 13MB or whatever) to add stuff/fix things. Game updates Sony was able to change, but actually firmware updates are stuck as they are.

For 360, MS created it to where you download a small file size (which is also compressed heavily) where it actually just patches the firmware like game updates. But with MS software experience and working with Xbox Live last gen, this is not a surprise they were able to come up with this. Game updates are limited in size and are also compressed. MS updates install too, just that the actual game update hides the install while the console update does not.

When downloading a game from PSN and XBL, now there's actually not much difference at all in speed. Some may experience slower downloads on PSN, but forwarding ports which SCEA/SCEE have on their site helps the speed.

 

[msdstc]

How often are there firmware updates? This complaint never really made sense to me, but w/e.

 

[Nemesis_]

I absolutely dread to see what will happen if I ever put my LittleBigPlanet disc in again. I haven't played that since launch.

 

[Acheteedo]

thats a really poor reason just to let you know.

Thanks for letting me know. I have less free time than you, so you're not in a position to judge, just to let you know.

The fact that they are single player games which you can easily avoid updates with makes that even worse.

:lol I have no idea what the updates entail, they could improve the aiming like the Killzone 2 patch, the very idea of not installing them is ridiculous, I'm not going to play a potentially broken game, I'll wait until I have time to do it properly.

 

[Ninja Moomin]

All I know is that the last time I wanted to play Singstar, I had to wait 20 minutes for the 3.4 Firmware update, 20 more for a bunch of game patches and 5 more while everything installed.

It has been months since I played this game. The system shouldn't try to actively disincentivise me from doing this by rewarding my impulse with interminable delays and FORCING me to download bullshit I don't even use.

lol


drama much?

O = cancel.

 

[Ninja Moomin]

This whole getting mad over Firmware updates is stupid. FW updates for the PS3 occur at around the same rate as a patch for WoW.

Guess what? If you don't turn on your PS3 for 2-3months, you are going to have to patch, if you don't play WoW for 2-3months, you are going to have to patch.

People who get upset over it, really need to get upset over something more important.

This... you get this whole set of people bitching about getting "feature X NOW" but the self same people bitch about having to download firmware and patches. Seriously... just deal.

if it really is ruining your life... just get PSN plus and turn on auto-download.

Then you can sleep at night.

 

[davepoobond]

then play a game you dont have to download.

maybe if he turned his ps3 on more than once every 3 months he wouldnt have to bother with 30 minute wait times to download patches that came out 2 months ago. i go through the same shit, but thats my fault because i dont play my ps3 as often as i should.

 

[mintylurb]

The last firmware (the one that lets Sony suggest games you might like) as mentioned in the article was definitely not the normal size, it was much smaller.

Even on my 1.5mb connection I was done in about 5 minutes. I do wish there were only two or three updates a year because it is inconvenient when you want to play a game online and find out you need to update.

Maybe Ben hadn't turned on his ps3 in a while(since 2006?) so he had to d/l the whole update? Who knows.

Anyway, Ben should consider getting his fw from the playstation support site. Unless Ben is on a dialup, it probably shouldn't take him more than 10 mins to d/l the whole fw from the support site.

 

[goldenpp72]

then play a game you dont have to download.

maybe if he turned his ps3 on more than once every 3 months he wouldnt have to bother with 30 minute wait times to download patches that came out 2 months ago. i go through the same shit, but thats my fault because i dont play my ps3 as often as i should.

There's a frequency we are meant to play our games?

 

[elektrixx]

What pisses me off more is that the Automated Downloading feature only works half the time. I waited three days after downloading Zen Pinball for that to update.

 

[Chuckie]

I remember standing up and going outside IN THE COLD to get Ocarina of Time... FUCK THESE KIDS AND THEIR DOWNLOADS

Lol... this.

I remember visiting every goddamn gameselling shop in my hometown for Mario Kart 64, just to find out it was sold out everywhere. I actually went to another city by train to get it. NOW THAT IS HARDCORE (and slightly obsessive/idiotic)

 

[Ninja Moomin]

What pisses me off more is that the Automated Downloading feature only works half the time. I waited three days after downloading Zen Pinball for that to update.

Really?

it pisses you off?

You need to get out more...

 

[V_Ben]

What pisses me off more is that the Automated Downloading feature only works half the time. I waited three days after downloading Zen Pinball for that to update.

It hasn't done anything for me yet at all. I've had my PS3 on standby, and never once has it turned on to download updates. I have over 10 GB free on my console, and it didn't even download the mafia 2 demo this morning. It was SUPPOSED to, but it didn't.

 

[Mad_Ban]

I absolutely dread to see what will happen if I ever put my LittleBigPlanet disc in again. I haven't played that since launch.

Oh boy you're in for a good time. :lol

 

[Suzzopher]

Ah so this is what John Davison was tweeting about last night:

Completely agree with @BenKuchera re: his piece on the seemingly punitive nature of PS3 updates

I tend to be the complete opposite opinion of John Davison these days sadly

 

[Psychotext]

All I know is that the last time I wanted to play Singstar, I had to wait 20 minutes for the 3.4 Firmware update, 20 more for a bunch of game patches and 5 more while everything installed.

It has been months since I played this game. The system shouldn't try to actively disincentivise me from doing this by rewarding my impulse with interminable delays and FORCING me to download bullshit I don't even use.

That's generally how it happens with me. I feel like playing a game but then inevitably I lose half an hour waiting for various updates and patches. I think most gamers at GAF probably wouldn't notice it (more time for gaming, more regular usage), but it annoys the hell out of me because I only get an odd hour or two to play lately, and half an hour is a fair chunk of that.

 

[davepoobond]

There's a frequency we are meant to play our games?

with a console, yes, not particular games in specific. If games weren't meant to be played over a long period of time why do they bother making patches?

 

[tirant]

PSN plus auto-downloading FTW.

I never have to think of this any more.



However the only time i've ever found it annoying is when you go back to an old game and it has several patches to DL and install in sequence.

Usually it's quick and relatively painless.

There should be only one patch for games: the last one, including the previous ones. At least that's how it's done on X360.

 

[mintylurb]

Ah so this is what John Davison was tweeting about last night:

Completely agree with @BenKuchera re: his piece on the seemingly punitive nature of PS3 updates

Well..can't blame John if he holds some negative feelings towards the ps3. It did kill his xbox 360. http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?publicUserId=5345401&bId=8093480

 

[neorej]

There should be only one patch for games: the last one, including the previous ones. At least that's how it's done on X360.

Yeah, that's actually a shitty idea. Let's say LBP has a total of 1,5GB of patches. You've already downloaded 1,3GB worth of patches in the past. Why would you want to download that 1,3GB again, instead of just the 200MB you're missing?

 

[J Tourettes]

That's generally how it happens with me. I feel like playing a game but then inevitably I lose half an hour waiting for various updates and patches. I think most gamers at GAF probably wouldn't notice it (more time for gaming, more regular usage), but it annoys the hell out of me because I only get an odd hour or two to play lately, and half an hour is a fair chunk of that.

Ditto.

I have a 20mb connection in London and the d/l and installing of patches for games takes forever.

 

[DeVeAn]

I think you're missing his point. When someone turns on a console to play a game, he's not interested in watching TV, or doing anything else at that point of time. You want to turn a system on, and play a game. Anything that gets in the way of that immediate action and delays it, is an annoyance.

That must be because we are old school console guys. Put the cart in press power and BAM your in the game!

 

[Pizza Luigi]

Joking aside, I tried to play LittleBigPlanet with a friend online a couple of days ago. It went like this:

We got the idea at about 7:30pm, I turned on my PS3 and connected to the PSN for I wanted to check the Playstation Store for content. Obviously, there was an update, with no meaningful consequences to my gaming experience within, but still, I had to download it. It took me about 45 minutes to download and then 5 more to install it. I lost all interest in checking out the Playstation Store, so I put in LittleBigPlanet. Update prompt. I thought the updates for such a game wouldn't be so large, so I clicked OK and I was right. They were only a few MB. Per update. And there were 12 of them. When we finally connected (and there was trouble with that as well) it was almost midnight...

 

[elektrixx]

What pisses me off more is that the Automated Downloading feature only works half the time. I waited three days after downloading Zen Pinball for that to update.

Really?

it pisses you off?

You need to get out more...

Is it wrong to be pissed off that a feature that I've paid for is not working?

 

[Zeouterlimits]

It's been a monthly/bi-monthly pain for my girlfriend and I when we pop in LBP and have a firmware update and a LBP update to download and install.

Never liked it, tis very annoying. Same for when I jumped back into U2. OS update, U2 update then U2 loading.

 

[zoukka]

It has happened to me many times. I dust off my PS3, want to play some wipeout or whatever, have to wait for firmware updates, If I have friends over they get frustrated and I'm like "it's soon there guys", then the fucking game itself needs updating and if I'm not already shutting the console down, I sure as hell am when we try the next game.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Really?

it pisses you off?

You need to get out more...

Muffin, considering you get pissed off every time someone says something negative about Sony, I don't think you get to tell people to get out more.

 

[El-Suave]

Professionals complaining about firmware updates are irritating me. These people should be informed and be able to plan ahead a little if this is annoying them so very much.

I would agree if they complained about some patches on PS3 though. In the past slow Motorstorm 1 and even worse Eye of Judgment patches have disrupted my evening gaming plans. LBP patching is tough as well if you haven't played it in a while.

 

[Alx]

just get PSN plus and turn on auto-download.

Then you can sleep at night.

So in short, Sony acknowledged it was a problem and found a solution to it, but you have to pay for it as part of a service.

Really?

it pisses you off?

You need to get out more...

Well if you're paying for the auto-updates, it sounds reasonable to expect it to work correctly.

Note that I have no opinion on the state of PSN updates, but judging from Sony communication, and comparing to competitors, you can't deny that it could be much better.

 

[The Faceless Master]

Faster than a week for Silver Live members to download demos.

Both services have their issues, but this article just slants everything one way.

yeah, that was a great complaint until PSN Plus started delaying demos for PSN Silver users!

The thing is, it wouldn't be a big deal if it wasn't so much better on the 360.

Does anyone know what the magic 360 update power voodoo is?

• Do they download system/game updates while the system is turned off?
• Do they only download diff-level patches, not full binaries?
• How is in the matter of 5 to 10 seconds?

I am console neutral when I ask: why is Microsoft so good at this, and Sony so bad at it? That's the real question.

from what i understand, yeah, they use delta patches, and also, they only allow patches to the executable. that's why games like burnout paradise and battlefield bad company 1 on PS3 had automatic updates while on 360 you got the updated executable when you put in the game, but had to go to marketplace and download the "full" update.

 

[Clear]

It has happened to me many times. I dust off my PS3, want to play some wipeout or whatever, have to wait for firmware updates, If I have friends over they get frustrated and I'm like "it's soon there guys", then the fucking game itself needs updating and if I'm not already shutting the console down, I sure as hell am when we try the next game.

Short answer: Play offline.

No internet connection = no updates. That simple.

My counter-argument is this: The only reason you absolutely need the latest firmware is to play online; hence delays for firmware download are effectively online service interruptions, which at 5 minutes a pop several weeks or even months apart shouldn't be considered a real problem.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Frankly, it's not all bad, nor is it all good. Stuff like Little Big Planet that has constant content updates, well, people are just going to have to live with the idea that if they don't play for a while, there's gonna be a lot to download. It's new content, so what can you do?

That said, it's obviously not as efficient a process as people would like when it comes to things like the firmware and certain title updates. Particularly with the firmware, it's pretty crazy that you have to download the whole firmware every time it needs updating. Hopefully Sony has learned and won't repeat that next time. It also doesn't help that by and large the firmware updates offer nothing tangible to the user, which means there's nothing mitigating the annoyance factor at all.

I think it's important to see both sides here. Yes, it is really just a minor annoyance, but minor annoyances count, too. Not everyone is willing to or able to plan their lives around their gaming habit, and it is annoying and sometimes heart-breaking when you finally find some time to game and start it up to see that dreaded update screen. You can say to play more often, but busy people may have little opportunity to play their systems, and unfortunately, these folks are the most likely to have little time to wait for updates.

Aside from fixing the whole "downloading the whole firmware every time there's an update", though, I'm not sure what people would have Sony do. I don't really like the way MS goes about things, even though it is certainly fast. It has too many limitations and I've seen them come up time and time again. And certainly, in today's gaming world, there are going to be patches, and there are going to be updates, so just ignoring it isn't an option either.

Maybe in the future systems will be smart enough to auto-update in stand-by mode or something. Then again, that brings its own potential problems.

 

[The Faceless Master]

There should be only one patch for games: the last one, including the previous ones. At least that's how it's done on X360.

it works like that because the patch is based on the original executable.

No need to segment completely.
Like why a person needs to download every DLC on LittleBigPlanet, just to play with a friend online, on the default stages; only because he's using a Ryu costume from Street Fighter.

Or let the person download what he wants.
Like patches to fix should be mandatory, but entire packs of DLC should be optional and by choice. So if a friend says "Hey, come see me playing this stage", then let me download the stuff that that stage has, not the entire packs.

it's just more efficient to push everything and have all clients be on the same page. i doubt they think it's worth the programming, debugging and distribution headaches to take that approach.

Those of us who own a 360 and a PS3 and game regularly on both will have a hard time disagreeing with the Ars Technica article. When I turn on a console, it's because I want to play a game. I don't care if a ten-minute wait for firmware upgrade is "measly" for you; it's still ten minutes that I could be playing a game on 360 (which is many times the same title). And when we add mandatory installation times... well... let's just say only the most deluded of fanboys can defend it.

i own both, game regularly on both (more on the 360) and disagree. i mean, i've timed it several times with a stopwatch, and it's around 5-7 minutes total. what sucks is when there's an update that adds almost nothing.

as far as updating when not planning to play, i mean, some people are posting stuff like "check the PS Blog" etc.. wtf? i never have to check anything to know a new FW is coming, it's always posted on GAF in a thread that stays on the front page with people guessing "cross game chat!" "improved browser!" "clock fix!" etc.

 

[Ninja-Matic]

Hmmm... I don't think I've ever had a firmware take longer than 5 minutes to download AND install. If he is getting normal speeds on other internet-enabled devices - then I'm not sure what his issue could be.

The large game downloads and installs are par-for the course for downloadable games so he can't complain much about downloading a gig or more on any platform.

Also - perhaps if he turned his PS3 on more often instead of when he HAS to - perhaps those updates would have been installed already

 

[MarkMclovin]

Need to update? Start it and then make a cuppa!

By the time you get back, it's double win as you have your update installed, and you have a nice cup of tea to sip, whilst knifing people in BFBC2.

Don't see the problem here.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Need to update? Start it and then make a cuppa!

By the time you get back, it's double win as you have your update installed, and you have a nice cup of tea to sip, whilst knifing people in BFBC2.

Don't see the problem here.

If only updates were four to six hours, I could enjoy the ultra win of a roast turkey with my Wipeout!

 

[viciouskillersquirrel]

I resent the implication that I don't love my PS3 enough. I use the damn thing damn near every single day.

Just because I don't download firmware updates the second they come out or play every game on it every week doesn't make Sony's terrible design decisions my responsibility.

 

[jiggles]

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