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Opinion Hardware It seems to me that Sony/Cerny chose higher quality accessories/console design over a higher Teraflops count. (A Risky Move)

kaczmar

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Hear me out.

Ever since the reveal of the luxurious looking DualSense controller and the state-of-the-art SSD, I began to realize Sony and Cerny's approach to focus their budget on other components instead of putting every egg into the basket that is the GPU.

While 10.2 Teraflops is a respectable number to have on any console, the fact that Sony decided to opt out of the archaic Power Battle led me to believe that the PlayStation 5 will have the following:
  • A more lavish and expensive cooling system, according to Bloomberg back in early 2020.
  • A more expensive, durable, and luxurious controller which includes translucent buttons to light up accompanied with a noise-cancelling mic and possibly back triggers.
  • A state-of-the-art SSD with a world record speed of 9GB/s and an SSD meticulously designed for ease of development.
  • A console design that will incorporate sleek metallic/higher quality materials for manufacturing.
  • A controller with state-of-the-art haptic feedback and adaptive trigger systems.
  • A more powerful built-in PSU to help mitigate cooling issues further.
  • An expansive Backwards Compatibility functionality that encompasses all previous generations of their library.
  • A state-of-the-art Audio Engine that rivals the cremè of the crop in the Audio Industry.
So GAF, do you think Sony did the right choice and focus their budget on improving the quality of other components of the console instead of maximizing the theoretical Teraflops count of their GPU?
Nice post. Didn't think of that but you might correct. At the end of the day, Sony exclusives will look and play amazing. Multiplat games may look/perform not as good compared to PC and XBOX Series X.
 
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Its not BS though, when cerny says the tempest engine is an RDNA2 CU but without cache.

Making a separate 1 RDNA2 CU audio chip does not make a lot of sense, it sounds a headache from an engineering standpoint.

Perhaps you could provide some reasoning or evidence for why this seperate 1 cu audio would actually be a good idea. That's usually how conversation/debate works, and not just calling people "delusional"
You're seriously starting to piss me off with your endless FUD on this thread.

Atleast my post is speculation, but spreading FUD and shifting goalposts is lame as fuck.
 
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Ass of Can Whooping

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Why is the new controller high quality? MiyazakiHatesKojima MiyazakiHatesKojima Because it's two colours of plastics instead of one? Have you held it or used it?
Has anyone outside of Sony or developers with a vested interest in pushing the product held it.? Have you seen the design for the console or do you have any idea how it's cooling solution is designed?The answer is no to all of these questions. You're just a massive fanboy troll so just fuck off already with your lame ass threads and shut the fuck up.
Amazing how a harmless speculatory post can cause this much butthurt
 
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Hell every last lick of juice would give you an improvement if you have the Bandwidth to sustain it.
What are we, buying Jamba Juice?

Its a console with just less than 1.87 teraflops, don't expect the XsX to run considerably better since 12TF is a theoretical count.
 
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OSC

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Let's even take for instance that this SSD is hypothetically faster than anything out there. Would you rather a little shorter loading times, or better resolution, textures, raytracing, graphical effects, framerate, etc? I'll definitely take the latter, and have marginally slower loading times. Fidelity in all aspects is so much better than a second or so shaved off from loading times. I guess there are bragging rights to loading times now? Give me better graphics all day long.
the ssd can be used to improve streaming and allow for higher quality higher lods. Why are highest lod levels limited now? Because the hdd is too slow, and the ram not big enough to hold all highest lod for all objects. That changes next gen.

Even 2TF's is going to give some type of improvement when doing Ray Tracing. Hell every last lick of juice would give you an improvement if you have the Bandwidth to sustain it. Ray Tracing is a resource hog.
Saying 2 TF's is not enough to do better Ray Tracing is being misinformed.
Sure we're not close to having full path Ray Tracing in a 4K next gen game but you've got to start somewhere.
Just like the 3DO, Jaguar, PS1 and Sega Saturn started the 3D era of gaming and the 3D graphics on those consoles sucked is the same way this Gen is starting the Ray Tracing Era.

Of course the difference is not like a Switch vs a XB1. PS5 and XSX are in the same ball park performance wise. One will likely do better Ray Tracing or have better Frame Rates over the other.
Problem is once you have shadows and reflections, that's about what even the more powerful rtx cards can handle(based on minecraft performance the rtx 2080 and rtx 2080ti appear to have higher performance than even the series x.). None can handle full path tracing outside of ultra simple games at low resolution.

Either sony's ray tracing is enough for shadows and reflections or it isn't. And if it is, higher performance might get you slightly higher resolution or slightly more framerate, but it is unlikely to get you anything more.

Where is your evidence of this?

This could be the case but, sony have not said.

And when we consider the ps5 gpu is most likely to be 40cus with 4 deactivated to improve yields, where is this extra audio CU going to come from?
It is very simple the 10.3Tflop calculation given the 2.3Ghz speed. It simply cannot be reached with less than 36 CUs available for graphics. Thus that simple figure clearly proves there are 36 CUs dedicated to graphics apart from the audio processor.
 
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PocoJoe

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Why is the new controller high quality? MiyazakiHatesKojima MiyazakiHatesKojima Because it's two colours of plastics instead of one? Have you held it or used it?
Has anyone outside of Sony or developers with a vested interest in pushing the product held it.? Have you seen the design for the console or do you have any idea how it's cooling solution is designed?The answer is no to all of these questions. You're just a massive fanboy troll so just fuck off already with your lame ass threads and shut the fuck up.
It's high quality because it is designed for human hands, with symmetrical sticks.
 
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Nice post. Didn't think of that but you might correct. At the end of the day, Sony exclusives will look and play amazing. Multiplat games may look/perform not as good compared to PC and XBOX Series X.
Not only will their games play amazing but the OS will be much faster and smoother as well.

Say goodbye to waiting for hours on end for game patches to fully install :)
 
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thelastword

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I'm not sure why they don't use a dynamic 4K resolution over blurry CB on XB1X. CB does look better on PRO than XB1X. Custom HW on Pro.
Dynamic 4k would be too much......XBONEX already struggled with 1920 x 2160 base rez to CB......A dynamic 4K (NON CB) would fluctuate in IQ way too much.....Don't forget this is a 60fps game....XBONEX even struggled to hit a locked 30fps in Skyrim remastered at 4K dynamic rez....

Anyways on topic, MiyazakiHatesKojima MiyazakiHatesKojima , great points in the OP......I think next gen will be one of the most important and I think XBOX will eventually follow suit......Lets be frank, it wont be long till you see XBOX talking about a create button, a built in mic with voice cancellation features, full haptic controller, perhaps a faster SSD in the XBOX Series One X.

The PS5 by all indications looks to be a more refined piece of hardware, whilst MS focused solely on a bigger teraflop figure, Sony focused on having a high ceiling for not only GPU and CPU, but for sound, storage, cooling and more custom hardware...….I know many are just arguing 12>10 right now, but we all know that is not going to be the case because it's not an apple to apples comparison......It's like comparing a huge heavy truck with 1100HP vs a more sophisticated design of a Ferrari with better aerodynamics to race a circuit or to traverse corners at 900HP, lighter, faster on many parts of the track.....It's going to be an interesting battle......
 

Sosokrates

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the ssd can be used to improve streaming and allow for higher quality higher lods. Why are highest lod levels limited now? Because the hdd is too slow, and the ram not big enough to hold all highest lod for all objects. That changes next gen.


Problem is once you have shadows and reflections, that's about what even the more powerful rtx cards can handle(based on minecraft performance the rtx 2080 and rtx 2080ti appear to have higher performance than even the series x.). None can handle full path tracing outside of ultra simple games at low resolution.

Either sony's ray tracing is enough for shadows and reflections or it isn't. And if it is, higher performance might get you slightly higher resolution or slightly more framerate, but it is unlikely to get you anything more.



It is very simple the 10.3Tflop calculation given the 2.3Ghz speed. It simply cannot be reached with less than 36 CUs available for graphics. Thus that simple figure clearly proves there are 36 CUs dedicated to graphics apart from the audio processor.
It certainly would be the best outcome if the audio cus are separate.
Its never been done before, we will know for sure when we get die shots.
 

BusierDonkey

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Why is the new controller high quality? MiyazakiHatesKojima MiyazakiHatesKojima Because it's two colours of plastics instead of one? Have you held it or used it?
Has anyone outside of Sony or developers with a vested interest in pushing the product held it.? Have you seen the design for the console or do you have any idea how it's cooling solution is designed?The answer is no to all of these questions. You're just a massive fanboy troll so just fuck off already with your lame ass threads and shut the fuck up.
I don't think anyone at Sony has held it either because it doesn't actually exist yet. My speculation, as this is a speculation thread is that it's only a render at this point otherwise Mark Cerney would have paraded it out on stage just like he did with the DS4 reveal. Both the console and controller are MIA because they aren't ready. Sony got caught off-guard when the Xbox specs dropped. The deep-dive and renders are all they've managed to have ready at this point because they couldn't display an inferior finished console.

Until they released the render, this was the controller shown hooked up to every devkit. It's viewable from many angles in multiple locations if you care to do an image search. My speculation says the mic was used to do voice to text chat as shown in the LCD screen .



Again this is of course just my own speculation on the matter, my dad doesn't work at Nintendo or anything like that so think whatever you want, but my guess is after they saw the Sexbox specs Sony realised they weren't where they thought they were power-wise and decided to go for that $399 price point instead of the $499 price they were originally targeting and in the process the controller lost the LCD screen among other system downgrades that they will never divulge at this point. They also raised the overclock to make up some of the power disadvantage to save face and thermals became an issue to the degree that Sony had to rethink their cooling arrangement entirely. I expect they'll likely end up copying Microsoft's homework for the console design unless they want to go with high cfm blower-type fan setup in a lower profile system and the whine that accompanies them when running at high speeds. The other option is liquid cooling, but at these temps that will require a lot of space. I expect Sony is already working on a Pro model to launch in a couple years to make up some of the power difference and keep up on things like ray tracing.

I also speculate that in June, Xbox will announce that after testing with the finished console over the coming months they are going to increase the clock speed since cooling is more than adequate and allows for a stable, not viariable, increase in speed.

An OC from 1.8 to 2.23 Ghz on a GPU will need significant cooling. I run a 2.2 Ghz clock on my 2080ti up from it's factory 1.8 overclock, but I have a full ATX case with liquid cooling. The Series X design is actually pretty clever, although maybe not what I'd call pretty, it's entirely utilitarian in design. Providing multiple channels for air to traverse around components, as well as a massive heatsink on the cold side of the console all pulled by a single large fan that looks remarkably similar to the high CFM/low noise fans I run in my PC means a large airflow number with a single quiet fan. Using the aluminum PCB spreader as a heatsink will help dissipate heat as well. I expect micro-ATX PCs will be designed more like this going forward as it makes a lot of sense. Anyone that's downplaying the design and the engineering displayed in the console is basically sticking their head in the sand.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right, until Sony plays their hand nobody really knows. People are arguing even though nobody has even seen one of the upcoming consoles outside a rendering of a controller. Speculation is fun!
 
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Barakov

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So GAF, do you think Sony did the right choice and focus their budget on improving the quality of other components of the console instead of maximizing the theoretical Teraflops count of their GPU?
I think it's too early to tell. IF the PS5 has all the things you said in the OP and is the same price as the XSX, I can see people picking up the PS5 instead. A lot of this will have to wait until we see games running on actual hardware. I think that's when we see if and/or how much of a power gap there is between the two systems.
 
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EliteSmurf

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I don't think anyone at Sony has held it either because it doesn't actually exist yet. My speculation, as this is a speculation thread is that it's only a render at this point otherwise Mark Cerney would have paraded it out on stage just like he did with the DS4 reveal. Both the console and controller are MIA because they aren't ready. Sony got caught off-guard when the Xbox specs dropped. The deep-dive and renders are all they've managed to have ready at this point because they couldn't display an inferior finished console.

Until they released the render, this was the controller shown hooked up to every devkit. It's viewable from many angles in multiple locations if you care to do an image search. My speculation says the mic was used to do voice to text chat as shown in the LCD screen .



Again this is of course just my own speculation on the matter, my dad doesn't work at Nintendo or anything like that so think whatever you want, but my guess is after they saw the Sexbox specs Sony realised they weren't where they thought they were power-wise and decided to go for that $399 price point instead of the $499 price they were originally targeting and in the process the controller lost the LCD screen among other system downgrades that they will never divulge at this point. They also raised the overclock to make up some of the power disadvantage to save face and thermals became an issue to the degree that Sony had to rethink their cooling arrangement entirely. I expect they'll likely end up copying Microsoft's homework for the console design unless they want to go with high cfm blower-type fan setup in a lower profile system and the whine that accompanies them when running at high speeds. The other option is liquid cooling, but at these temps that will require a lot of space. I expect Sony is already working on a Pro model to launch in a couple years to make up some of the power difference and keep up on things like ray tracing.

I also speculate that in June, Xbox will announce that after testing with the finished console over the coming months they are going to increase the clock speed since cooling is more than adequate and allows for a stable, not viariable, increase in speed.

An OC from 1.8 to 2.23 Ghz on a GPU will need significant cooling. I run a 2.2 Ghz clock on my 2080ti up from it's factory 1.8 overclock, but I have a full ATX case with liquid cooling. The Series X design is actually pretty clever, although maybe not what I'd call pretty, it's entirely utilitarian in design. Providing multiple channels for air to traverse around components, as well as a massive heatsink on the cold side of the console all pulled by a single large fan that looks remarkably similar to the high CFM/low noise fans I run in my PC means a large airflow number with a single quiet fan. Using the aluminum PCB spreader as a heatsink will help dissipate heat as well. I expect micro-ATX PCs will be designed more like this going forward as it makes a lot of sense. Anyone that's downplaying the design and the engineering displayed in the console is basically sticking their head in the sand.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe I'm right, until Sony plays their hand nobody really knows. People are arguing even though nobody has even seen one of the upcoming consoles outside a rendering of a controller. Speculation is fun!
That controller was a confirmed fake .
 
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It's like comparing a huge heavy truck with 1100HP vs a more sophisticated design of a Ferrari with better aerodynamics to race a circuit or to traverse corners at 900HP, lighter, faster on many parts of the track.....It's going to be an interesting battle......
This is a great analogy to this current next-gen battle between David (Sony) and Goliath (Xbox).

Both have their strengths and weaknesses, and my point of this thread is to give a different perspective on this matter.
 

FF:Enhanced_Reality

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Hear me out.

Ever since the reveal of the luxurious looking DualSense controller and the state-of-the-art SSD, I began to realize Sony and Cerny's approach to focus their budget on other components instead of putting every egg into the basket that is the GPU.

While 10.2 Teraflops is a respectable number to have on any console, the fact that Sony decided to opt out of the archaic Power Battle led me to believe that the PlayStation 5 will have the following:
  • A more lavish and expensive cooling system, according to Bloomberg back in early 2020.
  • A more expensive, durable, and luxurious controller which includes translucent buttons to light up accompanied with a noise-cancelling mic and possibly back triggers.
  • A state-of-the-art SSD with a world record speed of 9GB/s and an SSD meticulously designed for ease of development.
  • A console design that will incorporate sleek metallic/higher quality materials for manufacturing.
  • A controller with state-of-the-art haptic feedback and adaptive trigger systems.
  • A more powerful built-in PSU to help mitigate cooling issues further.
  • An expansive Backwards Compatibility functionality that encompasses all previous generations of their library.
  • A state-of-the-art Audio Engine that rivals the cremè of the crop in the Audio Industry.
So GAF, do you think Sony did the right choice and focus their budget on improving the quality of other components of the console instead of maximizing the theoretical Teraflops count of their GPU?
I hear you brother, I really do. I've actually been thinking about this and considering posting a thread exactly the same myself.

The Dual Sense controller to me looks like the most drastic development of the PlayStation controllers yet and ditching the Dual Shock name is quite bold, given it's been that way since 1997.

I believe that you are right and that Sony set a budget for a generation leap, not just in terms of specifications, but the entire package that you receive as a consumer. I also agree in about the cooling solution and form factor because a huge complaint and in fairness a valid one, is how loud and hot the PS4 can be. My PS4 Pro is one of the 500 million limited edition ones and playing certain titles it just bellows out sound and heat. I've bought some 3D printed feet that raise the console to prevent heat dissipation being less effective through the bottom. If you pick your console up and feel the bottom of it you really can feel the heat in whatever surface it has been lying on.

I think the speed of the console when used properly will be a major boon for Sony. After all the PS2 was a fill rate monster and even the XBOX and GameCube couldn't replicate that speed.

And I hope, that Sony have found a way to make the console wholly backwards compatible. If they include PS1 to PS5 including PSP and Vita, I think I will shit my pants. But this is a very different challenge to the one Microsoft faces. Since the XBOX has always been made from off the shelf components, far less bespoke and running Windows related software, it's a much easier task for them to achieve, although that being said, I wouldn't imply that it's an easy task. That being said if I had a choice of working on the tech responsible for allowing that on either Sony or Microsoft's platform, I know who I'd choose for ease.

I want to be able to play my older games in higher quality, I want to preserve the great games on PlayStation past and you're talking about such a library that I think even Nintendo would be a little envious. I'm hoping the fact that Sony are producing this generation leap as a consumer product does prove that the money that could have been spent on raw power has made for a far more appreciative device all around.

Plus the 3D audio aspect sounds really cool. I can't wait for Resident Evil and Silent Hill to kill me with it.
 
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I hear you brother, I really do. I've actually been thinking about this and considering posting a thread exactly the same myself.

The Dual Sense controller to me looks like the most drastic development of the PlayStation controllers yet and ditching the Dual Shock name is quite bold, given it's been that way since 1997.

I believe that you are right and that Sony set a budget for a generation leap, not just in terms of specifications, but the entire package that you receive as a consumer. I also agree in about the cooling solution and form factor because a huge complaint and in fairness a valid one, is how loud and hot the PS4 can be. My PS4 Pro is one of the 500 million limited edition ones and playing certain titles it just bellows out sound and heat. I've bought some 3D printed feet that raise the console to prevent heat dissipation being less effective through the bottom. If you pick your console up and feel the bottom of it you really can feel the heat in whatever surface it has been lying on.

I think the speed of the console when used properly will be a major boon for Sony. After all the PS2 was a fill rate monster and even the XBOX and GameCube couldn't replicate that speed.

And I hope, that Sony have found a way to make the console wholly backwards compatible. If they include PS1 to PS5 including PSP and Vita, I think I will shit my pants. But this is a very different challenge to the one Microsoft faces. Since the XBOX has always been made from off the shelf components, far less bespoke and running Windows related software, it's a much easier task for them to achieve, although that being said, I wouldn't imply that it's an easy task. That being said if I had a choice of working on the tech responsible for allowing that on either Sony or Microsoft's platform, I know who I'd choose for ease.

I want to be able to play my older games in higher quality, I want to preserve the great games on PlayStation past and you're talking about such a library that I think even Nintendo would be a little envious. I'm hoping the fact that Sony are producing this generation leap as a consumer product does prove that the money that could have been spent on raw power has made for a far more appreciative device all around.

Plus the 3D audio aspect sounds really cool. I can't wait for Resident Evil and Silent Hill to kill me with it.
Best post on this thread so far 💙 💙 💙 💙 💙
 
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Genx3

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I like the things the dual sense are doing.
I'm wondering if its because MS wants to sell you an Elite controller that they stopped innovating with their controllers.
Hopefully this applies pressure on MS to innovate the pack in controller.
 
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I like the things the dual sense are doing.
I'm wondering if its because MS wants to sell you an Elite controller that they stopped innovating with their controllers.
Hopefully this applies pressure on MS to innovate the pack in controller.
I never understood why Xbox doesn't automatically give its customers the play and charge kit with each bundle.
 
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Genx3

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Neo_game

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Well if Cerny said it, it must be true. I can guarantee you that my overclocked 2080 still underperforms compared to the Ti, so... And being quieter than the Pro isn't much of an achievement. A Train is quieter than my Pro.
rtx2080 to ti comparison does not make sense. There is a bigger gap between them and it should be as it 400$ more expensive. Here rtx2070 aggresively OC with stock rtx2080 stock are comparable and Sony went in the same direction



I think RDNA 2 allowed them to have such higher clockspeed as even Xbox inspite of 52CU is clocked at 1.8ghz. So the lower the CU more speed can be achieved. PS5 will definitely be better engineered console as I think it will have a console form factor and still noise, heat will be at check.
 

Tamy

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  • A more expensive, durable, and luxurious controller which includes translucent buttons to light up accompanied with a noise-cancelling mic and possibly back triggers.
  • A console design that will incorporate sleek metallic/higher quality materials for manufacturing.
  • An expansive Backwards Compatibility functionality that encompasses all previous generations of their library.
OP, where did you get this information from? And why do you state it as a fact.

  1. Buttons that light up?
  2. metallic Materials for the console?
  3. PS1-PS3 BC?
Why is OP allowed to make such claims and STATE THEM AS FACTs, without proof?
 

Tamy

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They already said they're not doing series X exclusives for 2 years into it's lifecycle.... just the same stuff they're doing on Xbox One.
No, this is wrong. And you are spreading FUD.

Only for the FIRST year of Series X Xbox Studio games will be released on Xbox one, too. ALL 3rd Party devs are allowed to develop XBOX SERIES X only games DAY ONE.



That confidence came through in every interview, and casual chat, we had at Microsoft’s X019 meeting late last year.
So, the meeting was Nov. 2019, Nov. 2019 + 2 years = Nov. 2021, so just a single year.

Why do you spread FUD about xbox?
 
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OP, where did you get this information from? And why do you state it as a fact.

  1. Buttons that light up?
  2. metallic Materials for the console?
  3. PS1-PS3 BC?
Why is OP allowed to make such claims and STATE THEM AS FACTs, without proof?
He's read too many Pastebin rumours.
 
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Stiflers Mom

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Hear me out.

Ever since the reveal of the luxurious looking DualSense controller and the state-of-the-art SSD, I began to realize Sony and Cerny's approach to focus their budget on other components instead of putting every egg into the basket that is the GPU.

While 10.2 Teraflops is a respectable number to have on any console, the fact that Sony decided to opt out of the archaic Power Battle led me to believe that the PlayStation 5 will have the following:
  • A more lavish and expensive cooling system, according to Bloomberg back in early 2020.
  • A more expensive, durable, and luxurious controller which includes translucent buttons to light up accompanied with a noise-cancelling mic and possibly back triggers.
  • A state-of-the-art SSD with a world record speed of 9GB/s and an SSD meticulously designed for ease of development.
  • A console design that will incorporate sleek metallic/higher quality materials for manufacturing.
  • A controller with state-of-the-art haptic feedback and adaptive trigger systems.
  • A more powerful built-in PSU to help mitigate cooling issues further.
  • An expansive Backwards Compatibility functionality that encompasses all previous generations of their library.
  • A state-of-the-art Audio Engine that rivals the cremè of the crop in the Audio Industry.
So GAF, do you think Sony did the right choice and focus their budget on improving the quality of other components of the console instead of maximizing the theoretical Teraflops count of their GPU?
So they basically did the Nintendo?

(both consoles will have more than enough power, please stop that nonsense, people)
 
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Tomeru

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OP, where did you get this information from? And why do you state it as a fact.

  1. Buttons that light up?
  2. metallic Materials for the console?
  3. PS1-PS3 BC?
Why is OP allowed to make such claims and STATE THEM AS FACTs, without proof?
Op did no such thing. Go back and read the post again, only this time try and comprehend what you're reading.
 
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Bryank75

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No, this is wrong. And you are spreading FUD.

Only for the FIRST year of Series X Xbox Studio games will be released on Xbox one, too. ALL 3rd Party devs are allowed to develop XBOX SERIES X only games DAY ONE.



That confidence came through in every interview, and casual chat, we had at Microsoft’s X019 meeting late last year.
So, the meeting was Nov. 2019, Nov. 2019 + 2 years = Nov. 2021, so just a single year.

Why do you spread FUD about xbox?
 

Barnabot

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I'm tired, man.

I'm tired of this console warrior bullshit, I'm tired of the trolling, I'm tired of the gimmick accounts, I'm tired of the insecure fanboy crap. And to be honest, I'm just tired of this whole forum....

no, you still need to inlfict more pain to this world. i'm not done with you yet. don't give up on me.
 
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