Italy refuses port entry of migrant filled ship, Malta also nopes out

Dec 6, 2008
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No one but you gives a shit about those immutable characteristics.
I'm a (((leftist))) too. How about that? And that whole sentence was a lie, unless you don't read what people post about blacks and gays here. I'm simultaneously about to commit 50% of the murders in America AND corrupt any child I adopt.
 
Oct 24, 2017
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I'm a (((leftist))) too. How about that? And that whole sentence was a lie, unless you don't read what people post about blacks and gays here. I'm simultaneously about to commit 50% of the murders in America AND corrupt any child I adopt.
these are official statistics. And they do not happen because they are black. They happen because black people are often live in areas with heavy poverty. Therefore more criminal activity. And that is what we need to change to also change these statistics and the resulted perceptions of people. To ignore these statistics and just cry racism will not help solve these issues
 
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Show us what they say here.
these are official statistics. And they do not happen because they are black. They happen because black people are often live in areas with heavy poverty. Therefore more criminal activity. And that is what we need to change to also change these statistics and the resulted perceptions of people. To ignore these statistics and just cry racism will not help solve these issues
I think we should lay off for now, fellas. I sense something is wrong.
 
Oct 24, 2017
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I think we should lay off for now, fellas. I sense something is wrong.
We showed him these FBI statistics and he knows them. Also no one ever said because they are black. If he has a bad day fine but to ignore facts is not helping. Even though I see how this is off topic so I let it go.

As for this topic: It looks like Germany will also go a much harsher route now to reject people directly on the German border. Looks like Merkel in this case has lost almost every support This coalition seem to break very soon. So Italy getting help from Germany is almost certain a no as well. So I guess its now everyone for himself.
 
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Your entire post is merely a crazed justification for the destruction of the European people.
I can't even begin to imagine how you arrived at that conclusion, unless of course it's a useful strawman for you to burn down.

In terms of International law, illegal aliens are illegal, i.e. we have zero obligation to open our borders to anyone
This is false. You sound like one of those people that believe that anyone who commits a crime gives up all their rights as afforded by the state and international laws. It's simply not true.

“This is a reminder that while states are entitled to regulate movement across their borders they must do so in accordance with their obligations under international law including international human rights law.”
i.e. Italy doesn't have to let all these people permanently settle in their country, but they have obligation to provide them safe habour, ensure they're in good health, and properly assess any asylum seeker status. They're shirking their responsibilities and humanity by simply turning the boat away.

especially peoples whose demographic expansion is left utterly unchecked (they breed without concern for long term sustainability)
Uh... what kind of controls are placed on breeding behaviours for long term sustainability in Europe or any country for that matter? They tried it in China though...

likewise even the UN has an indigenous peoples act which should theoretically ensure our protection
Uh... yeah. Look, you're not in danger of being 'flooded'. The percent of migrants to the total population of Europe is miniscule. Sure, indigenous people have a right to protection from invasion, including Europeans... but you're not being invaded. Saying so is hyperbolic sensationalism.

Admit it, you simply hate Europe & whish to Africanise us. That's all. You're fuelled by hatred, i.e. hate which you project onto normal folk who reject a foreign invasion of their own ancestral land in order to mask your own contempt for us.
At this point I know you're either deranged or just a troll having some lols. If it's the former, hopefully you aren't beyond hope. If it's the latter... *golf clap*

what about sympathy for our own people who're facing diminishing returns in terms of wages, opportunities & social services as a result of these new arrivals flooding our streets?
Looks like wages are actually rising in Italy and they are following the trend that has been occurring for over 20 years. If they were 'flooded' with 'invaders' over the last few years you'd expect to see a noticeable dip right?

(crime is skyrocketing as well)
Really? Have any data to back that up? This is the best I could find from 2011-2016. Can't find anything more recent and the source is behind a pay wall, but as you can see it clearly shows that crime rates are actually dropping. If you can't find anything to back up your claims I guess you'll be ok with me assuming you're making up lies and are completely full of shit, right? Cool.

You mention 120 minors, yet ignore the fact there's 600 on the ship, i.e. most of whom are grown ass men!
Yeah, so, you've clearly missed my point. Italy should've accepted the boat and processed people on a case by case basis. In the case of the 120 UNACCOMPANIED minors they should've taken responsibility for them. As for the rest of the passengers on the ship, they can process them as is appropriate by their national laws and international laws. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing choice you know?

You're so quick to paint them as benevolent do-gooders seeking a better life
I said nothing about benevolent do-gooders. Just people seeking a better life.

whilst painting us as haters.
Who is 'us' here?

Europeans? Then no, that's not true. I'M European by blood. I hold a European passport.

Racist nationalists? Then yes... you are by definition, haters.

News flash: your worldview is tainted by crass indoctrination planted in your head by criminals.
Maybe, but you've done nothing to convince me that's true. Convince me. You attempted to use vague and non-specific statistics earlier, but actual data didn't back it up. If it's true it should be easy to show me it's true. All you've done is told me what you believe and then, where I could, I showed you that it doesn't appear to be true.

If everyone in the world deemed it 'rightful' to export themselves by millions to whichever land is prosperous at that particular moment in time (Europe isn't even as prosperous as before, ironically), our entire planet would descend into chaos & war.
Well actually, that's been happening since... well, forever. And yet we're becoming a progressively more peaceful planet (thought clearly we still have a way to go).

"Oh, China looks like they're on the up, so come on chaps, let's all head to China & take their jobs, women & build our communities there. When they object, we'll call them bigots! Great idea!"
Take our women? Huh, you've revealed another layer of your derangement. Are you an incel as well as a racist?

But never you! its impossible that you are being misled!
Did you not read the sentence directly before that where I admit it's possible I've being fooled?

p.s Do you live in the US?
No, Australia.

You have no idea what you are talking about.... You can argue with feelings and empathy as much as you want but the problems only get bigger. For example in 201 already 45% f Italian people think that its better for their country to leave the European Union. Not only because they are pleading for help and do not get any from the EU
Uhh... what are you even talking about? This has absolutely no relevance to whether people on a boat should be offered safe harbour by a country. I don't care what percent of Italian people want to leave the EU (is it even true? source? ah whatever, who fucking cares?).

In 2016 they took 180k in middle of 2017 the counter had already reached 85k and that was before Summer.
And yet they're very low on the immigration rankings...

And Also the more you take the more the message spreads that they will take people in who want a better life. You just can not destory a whole country or the complete European union because of feelings. They are causing political and economical and social l instabilities no country can master
I keep seeing people say this as though it's a matter of fact, but no evidence to back it up. It's almost as though you're just basing your belief in it on... feelings.

But as someone said already. If you want to take refugees in I bet you can do that in your house.
And as I already said, that is a disingenuous argument and poor analogy. My home is not my country. You want to play at a game where we make stupid analogies where we pretend like our home should be run like a country?

Getting on a ship to nowhere is stupid. They come with expectations that are expected to be met. Why? Who in their right mind does shit like that and honestly thinks that's normal or okay? It's neither.
Yeah, it's highly unusual. Have you considered why they would do something so extreme?
 
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Uhh... what are you even talking about? This has absolutely no relevance to whether people on a boat should be offered safe harbour by a country. I don't care what percent of Italian people want to leave the EU (is it even true? source? ah whatever, who fucking cares?).

And yet they're very low on the immigration rankings...

I keep seeing people say this as though it's a matter of fact, but no evidence to back it up. It's almost as though you're just basing your belief in it on... feelings.

/QUOTE]

I can tell you from the German situation right now. Education is on an all time low and yes it has to do with too many migrant children in school. There are studies that clearly show that in a class with 5 children who have not german as their native language the quality will drop significally. More and more refugges have to wait 2-4 years for even getting a place to live because we have a huge housing crisis. People have to wait in line for several hours to even get the chance for a Kindergarten place and so on. We are full we can not do anymore and when you take this over to Itally who do not have sucha . good economy who do not have these standards Germany has you can see how it would be even worse for them.

Right now Greece and Italy as well as France are putting them all into camps. Same does Germany and since we do not have any places left they have to stay there for years even with families. Immigrants right now have no future in Europe because of these issues. they lack the education, they lack the language and we lack everything else.

And even more so why do you think the right is raising so much here in Europe because of these issues. People thinking its enough. now you daily hear about some refugee who has raped and murdered a girl (last one was 14) and this does not come from right wing media sites but the moderte and left ones who report on this. Does it suck for the ones who really want to stay and integrate? yes it does. But what other choice do we have? Europe or the countries who accepted refugees are FULL. Sweden is done, France is done, Itally is done and so is Germany.

Also if we do not stop here the right will raise more and more until we have something similar like post WW2 because right now we are in a Weimar situation.
 
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Well actually, that's been happening since... well, forever. And yet we're becoming a progressively more peaceful planet (thought clearly we still have a way to go).
Fortunately people such as yourself can only claim a 'moral' high ground in the Internet sphere because on the ground within Europe's rapidly disintegrating social structure your opinions are laughably out of touch with reality. France, Italy, Germany etc. are not lands of immigration in which tens of millions (hundreds even, i.e. as suggested by Macron himself aka president of France) of Africans can land here & blend in. Even in its current numbers it's an invasion - end of. I invite all French speakers to read the comment section on this Figaro article relating to the news discussed in this thread: http://www.lefigaro.fr/vox/societe/...e-symbole-d-une-debacle-europeenne.php#reagir

Mainstream, normal French people are pissed off by the fact this country is being deliberately dismantled & its French population replaced by Africans. Now, you can act all morally righteous here yet sooner or later a large part of this country will say enough is enough - ditto for other European countries. What we're seeing are human traffickers collecting sub-Saharan Africans & dumping them in Europe under the guise of faux 'humanitarianism' in order to feed a criminal financial cartel hellbent on cheap labor & leftist parties which feed on immigrant support. It's a psychotic perversion of Democracy (i.e. importing voters from abroad when the native people think globalists & cultural Marxists are insane) & total treason.

Africa's unchecked demographic explosion is also a huge elephant in the room because breeding misery & throwing their poverty @ Europe will simply... make us poor as well. The simple fact is you're happy to watch our cities & countries turn into majority African/Muslim lands (on the current trajectory this is a mathematical certainty, ergo it's no point minimising the numbers), yet when I say I want these same cities & countries to remain predominantly European in both blood & culture, I'm labelled a racist.

Israel has the right idea, i.e. if you went down there & told them "open your gates, accept the poverty of Africa & let Israel become majority non Jewish in the name of human rights!", you'd be labelled an anti-Semite. Rightly so.
 
Aug 2, 2015
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Good for them. It's harsh, but the illegal immigration in EU needs to be completely shut down. Ships can't be taken in and anyone who gets illegally gets deported and then banned for 5-10 years from applying for legal migration agreement. EU can't take it much longer. The little bit of migration crisis already strained politica systems leading to rise of populism and this crisis is a cake walk compared to what is bound to happen in the future if the movement isn't stopped.

And it's not like it even makes sense from humanitarian standpoint. Vast majorities of those migrants won't be happy here. They will be unemplyed, without chances to start families, living in poverty in ghettos, without any prospects and surrounded by increasingly hostile native population. And even providing this misery will cost dozens of billions of euros a year. Can you imagine what that ammount of money could do in middle east and Africa? Does a young, strong, healthy african male deserve EU help over 30 people in Africa just because he was brazen enough to break the law and sneak in?
 
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What was different again?
Everybody was migrant or descended from one, so there was no homgenous native majority that makes integration far easier. There was also work for migrants. Without work integration is impossible and there;s barely any work in EU for african migrants and automation will kill what's left. There was also no social net systems. If somebody didn't make it on the market he just starved or died from ilness. Now he will be never ending burden on already straining budget. Plus the migrants used to be far closer ethnically and culturally to americans.

People like to bring USA as a success story of migration, but considering the population sizes of Europe and Africa and the rate of growth of the second one, in this analogy the europeans are the indians. I don't think native americans would consider what happened to their continents as "migration success story"
 

JordanN

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Speaking of Europe and years gone by, I find it ironic that there is such a resistance to immigration given its Imperialist history. The shoe is on the other foot now, and it fits.
Payback is a motherfucker.
Eh, I just want to point out that Europe/North Americas have the highest standards of living and support for personal freedoms on earth.
So I'm not sure if payback is the correct word to use given the modern disparities in countries (unless you're typing from Saudi Arabia and are ok living under a theocratic & insane government).

I don't think you can even call it payback since all the former Imperialists are dead, and many of their colonies granted Independence. So why argue in favor of migrants moving to a land that hated them, especially now that their countries are independent?
 
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Eh, I just want to point out that Europe/North Americas have the highest standards of living and support for personal freedoms on earth.
So I'm not sure if payback is the correct word to use given the modern disparities in countries (unless you're typing from Saudi Arabia and are ok living under a theocratic & insane government).

I don't think you can even call it payback since all the former Imperialists are dead, and many of their colonies granted Independence. So why argue in favor of migrants moving to a land that hated them, especially now that their countries are independent?
The modern disparities exist because of post-colonialism. Europe's standard of living is the way it is because it exploited other countries around the world via colonization, and now does so via globalization. America still throws the might of its military around, too.

He used "payback." I prefer "reparations."
 
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The modern disparities exist because of post-colonialism. Europe's standard of living is the way it is because it exploited other countries around the world via colonization, and now does so via globalization. America still throws the might of its military around, too.

He used "payback." I prefer "reparations."
Disparities exist because of advancement in technology, medicine, farming etc. The European countries were already on a higher level of living when they started colonizing other countries. It's what allowed them to do that in the first place.
Also having to pay for something someone in your past that may or may not have been your ancestor did is ludicrous. And if that's how it should be, the Muslism also have to pay "reparations" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Muslim_conquests. I guess we can call it even.
 
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The modern disparities exist because of post-colonialism. Europe's standard of living is the way it is because it exploited other countries around the world via colonization, and now does so via globalization. America still throws the might of its military around, too.

He used "payback." I prefer "reparations."
Europe was the cultural & technological pinnacle of this side of the globe long before our ancestors colonized Africa. Go back to Renaissance Italy & tell them they only achieved that level because they 'exploited' Africa... i.e. it's absurd (one example among many, many others). The notion Europe should basically be asset stripped & hand over all its goodies (including its own land) to others around the world who cannot manage their own affairs properly is a literal communist mindset which doesn't exactly have much support here.

But carry on, i.e. the more people such as yourself talk that way the more people over here reject all your ideas.
 
Oct 24, 2017
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The modern disparities exist because of post-colonialism. Europe's standard of living is the way it is because it exploited other countries around the world via colonization, and now does so via globalization. America still throws the might of its military around, too.

He used "payback." I prefer "reparations."
Bullshit.

Germany was destroyed and we had to rebuild almost everything. We had to reform our whole systems. We had nothing left. But we also put work into the whole region also because we were not restricted by harmful religious ideologies. And yes even before colonialism 'Europe was always on top past 1500. What countries like Africa is holding back are the ideologies and political systems. They corrupt dictatorships etc. And it does not help when all young male africans are leaving the country because they think they can have a better live here which is not even true.

In terms of education language etc they will almost have no future or chances here ecxcept for free money through social welfare. Also I love how you are justifying the whole European Nation getting destroyed because of these people who just come here to have a better life. The European Union is almost done for because of this. Countries go back to establish their own borders etc. We are full there is a limit we can take and this has been already reached in 2017.
 
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Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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The modern disparities exist because of post-colonialism. Europe's standard of living is the way it is because it exploited other countries around the world via colonization, and now does so via globalization. America still throws the might of its military around, too.

He used "payback." I prefer "reparations."
To be honest, the simple fact that you won the genetic lottery of being lucky enough to be born in a country that holds western values should be reparations enough.

Those "exploited" nations would have never advanced to western levels had colonization and globalization not occurred. Making the world smaller benefited billions of people. Poverty is down overall globally to levels unheard of.
 
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Aug 2, 2015
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The modern disparities exist because of post-colonialism. Europe's standard of living is the way it is because it exploited other countries around the world via colonization, and now does so via globalization. America still throws the might of its military around, too.

He used "payback." I prefer "reparations."
Well, plenty of European countries never did any colonialism, so I guess they're free to ignore all of Africa's problems, right?
 
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Yeah that post went full retard. Not sure if its from 1018 or 2018. Is this a description of a third world country or a European one?

Speaking of Europe and years gone by, I find it ironic that there is such a resistance to immigration given its Imperialist history. The shoe is on the other foot now, and it fits.
Ah yes, love, tolerance, and REVENGE!
 
Jun 11, 2018
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i.e. Italy doesn't have to let all these people permanently settle in their country, but they have obligation to provide them safe habour, ensure they're in good health, and properly assess any asylum seeker status. They're shirking their responsibilities and humanity by simply turning the boat away.

Uh... what kind of controls are placed on breeding behaviours for long term sustainability in Europe or any country for that matter? They tried it in China though...

Uh... yeah. Look, you're not in danger of being 'flooded'. The percent of migrants to the total population of Europe is miniscule. Sure, indigenous people have a right to protection from invasion, including Europeans... but you're not being invaded. Saying so is hyperbolic sensationalism.

Yeah, so, you've clearly missed my point. Italy should've accepted the boat and processed people on a case by case basis. In the case of the 120 UNACCOMPANIED minors they should've taken responsibility for them. As for the rest of the passengers on the ship, they can process them as is appropriate by their national laws and international laws. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing choice you know?

I said nothing about benevolent do-gooders. Just people seeking a better life.
What these boats of men are doing is not genuinely asking for refuge, they are bending the law to suit their interests. By the time they reached the boat to depart for Europe, they are already in a safe situation. Isn't it international law that a refugee claim must be done after arriving at the first safe country after leaving their country of origin? Then, how come people don't ask for refugee in Poland? Hungary? Romania? Hell, forget Europe, why not ask for refugee in Algeria? Egypt? Tunisia? Morocco? Why is Saudi Arabia not taking them?

No, no, they want to go to Germany, Sweden, Norway, Great Britain. Truth is, these people are not refugees. They are exactly what illegal immigrants did in the US a couple of decades ago: they paid smugglers to get them to the US where they believe they'll make tons of money. It's actually a worse situation, as these smuggled people get there with the wrong impression that once they are there, they'll be given high paying jobs, cars and a hot blonde wife. It's not a coincidence that most of the people in the ship are young, able people.

I don't know about you, but I don't believe that immigrating to a place is a human right. I've been able to do it because I have something to offer. I am morally against people illegally getting somewhere, with no education, willingness to adapt to a new culture, just to get there and reach out there hand and ask for handouts. The worst part is that due to white guilt propaganda, the places that have accepted them have created violent guettos and communities of people that demand their host country to accommodate them, their customs and beliefs.

It's not the role of wealthy countries to just let everyone in, no matter their education or background. The only thing you'd create is more poor countries and erasing the self imposed guilt.
 
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I hope Europe is starting to understand that the thing they don't need more of are uneducated, impossible to assimilate young men from cultures that are vastly different than that of their own.
People here do know, however especially in Austria and Germany the governments are afraid to be labeled Nazis for sending “refugees” back.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
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I don't know about you, but I don't believe that immigrating to a place is a human right. I've been able to do it because I have something to offer. I am morally against people illegally getting somewhere, with no education, willingness to adapt to a new culture, just to get there and reach out there hand and ask for handouts. The worst part is that due to white guilt propaganda, the places that have accepted them have created violent guettos and communities of people that demand their host country to accommodate them, their customs and beliefs.
If you are illegally immigrating somewhere then complaining about the treatment you receive, you are the same as an asshole who breaks into their neighbors house, takes over the master bedroom and eats everything in the fridge then complains that the food wasn't organic and gluten free and that the bed doesn't have freshly pressed 1000 thread count sheets.
 
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Yeah that post went full retard. Not sure if its from 1018 or 2018. Is this a description of a third world country or a European one?

Speaking of Europe and years gone by, I find it ironic that there is such a resistance to immigration given its Imperialist history. The shoe is on the other foot now, and it fits.
So are you saying that this migration crisis is actually an imperialistic invasion?
 
Oct 24, 2017
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What these boats of men are doing is not genuinely asking for refuge, they are bending the law to suit their interests. By the time they reached the boat to depart for Europe, they are already in a safe situation. Isn't it international law that a refugee claim must be done after arriving at the first safe country after leaving their country of origin? Then, how come people don't ask for refugee in Poland? Hungary? Romania? Hell, forget Europe, why not ask for refugee in Algeria? Egypt? Tunisia? Morocco? Why is Saudi Arabia not taking them?

No, no, they want to go to Germany, Sweden, Norway, Great Britain. Truth is, these people are not refugees. They are exactly what illegal immigrants did in the US a couple of decades ago: they paid smugglers to get them to the US where they believe they'll make tons of money. It's actually a worse situation, as these smuggled people get there with the wrong impression that once they are there, they'll be given high paying jobs, cars and a hot blonde wife. It's not a coincidence that most of the people in the ship are young, able people.

I don't know about you, but I don't believe that immigrating to a place is a human right. I've been able to do it because I have something to offer. I am morally against people illegally getting somewhere, with no education, willingness to adapt to a new culture, just to get there and reach out there hand and ask for handouts. The worst part is that due to white guilt propaganda, the places that have accepted them have created violent guettos and communities of people that demand their host country to accommodate them, their customs and beliefs.

It's not the role of wealthy countries to just let everyone in, no matter their education or background. The only thing you'd create is more poor countries and erasing the self imposed guilt.
This is the main point these people do not flee from war they do not even flee from their country they just want a better life and they want the best life they can get for free. And in tis regard the only place these people accept are countries like Germany with social welfare and because they get told how great it is in Germany. And when they get here they have NO chance they do not even have a chance to stay here.
 
Aug 2, 2015
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What these boats of men are doing is not genuinely asking for refuge, they are bending the law to suit their interests. By the time they reached the boat to depart for Europe, they are already in a safe situation. Isn't it international law that a refugee claim must be done after arriving at the first safe country after leaving their country of origin? Then, how come people don't ask for refugee in Poland? Hungary? Romania?
Funny little fact. Sometimes when migrants want to sneak to Germany they go through Poland. When german police caught them they returned then to Poland. But they rarely do it now, because as one german policemen said "when those migrants learn they will be sent back to Poland they start crying" :D
There was also a group of Iraqui migrants who spend couple months hiding in Warsaw (Poland's capital) being confinced they're in Germany :D
 
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PKM

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As an American who has never been to Europe your immigrant crisis makes me said.

I want to go to Italy and experience Italian culture and it's people, France, Britain, Germany etc.. but it sounds like your culture is slowly being eroded and by the time I get a chance to see it it wont be the same.
 
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Paging @EviLore to come marvel at the fantastic dumpster fire that GAF is becoming as evidenced by this thread. It’s one thing to argue that perhaps the migrant situation could be handled better, but we literally got slavery/genocide apologists in this thread because “natural selection”

Wow. I mean, by that logic rape is “ok” too because the women being raped are weak and the men need to pass on their seed.

It’s really sad witnessing Gaf’s slow descent to madness. It feels like a lot of really fucked up threads have been getting closed lately like that fringy conspiracy bullshit thread a few days ago.


Mods Halp!

ResetEra is that way ------------------------------>
 
Dec 12, 2013
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What was different again?
Is this a joke question? Everything was different:
-World population was much lower.
-The US wanted and needed immigrants to settle and populate the new very large country whereas Europe today is crowded enough and has high unemployment and no need for any immigration, not to mention the fact that it is completely illegal to choose to move to another country without that country's consent.
-The European immigrants to the US were mostly families that were educated, wanting to work hard and had many cultural similarities to other Americans whereas these migrants are mostly young men who not only have zero education but don't even possess the basic social skills and morals to live in a civilized society; they have no real desire to work and no real incentive to do so since the governments will give them free money and social benefits, they have no desire to really integrate and learn the culture of their new country and would rather push their own heavily flawed ideology on the local populace.
 
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The modern disparities exist because of post-colonialism. Europe's standard of living is the way it is because it exploited other countries around the world via colonization, and now does so via globalization. America still throws the might of its military around, too.

He used "payback." I prefer "reparations."
Modern disparities exist because of post-colonialism.... Hahahaha... What are the African equivalents of Athens, Rome, and Byzantium? Europe suffered through multiple Dark Ages, one brought on by Indo-European invaders around 1200 BCE, and another after the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. It also rose from the ashes caused by the Islamic invasions of the 7th Century CE. Barbary Piracy claimed the lives of 18 million people, the Mongolian Empire expanded into Russia, Ukraine, and other parts of Eastern Europe. Europeans suffered through the same atrocities as any of these current 'protected' minority groups in the West.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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The modern disparities exist because of post-colonialism. Europe's standard of living is the way it is because it exploited other countries around the world via colonization, and now does so via globalization. America still throws the might of its military around, too.

He used "payback." I prefer "reparations."
You have zero understanding of the world or its history sadly; you just regurgitate a narrative you been indoctrinated with. I bet you believe that whites invented slavery, that only they have had slaves and that they went to Africa and threw nets on some black people and brought them back. Here's the actual facts: white people didn't invent slavery, they enslaved much less than other races which still have slaves to this day, and almost all the slaves the whites took were either traded for or bought from black warlords and slave traders:
Wikipedia said:
The increase of demand for slaves due to the expansion of European colonial powers to the New World made the slave trade much more lucrative to the West African powers, leading to the establishment of a number of actual West African empires thriving on slave trade. These included the Oyo empire (Yoruba), Kong Empire, Imamate of Futa Jallon, Imamate of Futa Toro, Kingdom of Koya, Kingdom of Khasso, Kingdom of Kaabu, Fante Confederacy, Ashanti Confederacy, and the kingdom of Dahomey. These kingdoms relied on a militaristic culture of constant warfare to generate the great numbers of human captives required for trade with the Europeans.
While it's true that Europe colonized Africa and exploited the population and resources, as time went on, European developed those nations with modern (for the time) infrastructure, including but not lmimited to buildings, roads, railways, power grids, running water and sewer systems. They opened schools to educate the local population and filled hospitals with much needed medecine and vaccines. Sadly when colonization ended the nations failed to build upon what the Europeans had left them and failed even to maintain it. Don't take my word for it listen to this Togolese politician talk about how elders in the villages he visited told him "life was better when the whites were around". Though colonization is regrettable it still brought a lot of progress for the time to Africa. And nobody is against helping Africa but it needs to start there, having all these uneducated young men migrate to Europe isn't going to do anything to help Africa, it's just making Europe worse with more unemployment and more crime. China doesn't take in any migrants, but instead it is investing heavily and building many factories in Africa, creating jobs for Africans there and boosting the economy. That's how you do it.
 
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JordanN

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Apr 21, 2012
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To be honest, the simple fact that you won the genetic lottery of being lucky enough to be born in a country that holds western values should be reparations enough.

Those "exploited" nations would have never advanced to western levels had colonization and globalization not occurred. Making the world smaller benefited billions of people. Poverty is down overall globally to levels unheard of.
To be fair (and in my opinion), I don't think these countries would never have advanced without colonization.
What I believe is the issue, is that these countries got accelerated too quickly and ended up with 1st world infrastructure while the natives were still living Neolithic/Hunter-Gatherer lives.
In addition to having borders that were artificially drawn up, it makes the transition into official 1st world status harder when they're dealing with civil wars all the time.

That said, it doesn't mean migration should be the solution. They need to stay behind and fight for stability in their own homelands, where they can hopefully, continue working on their timeline of advancing to 1st world status at a less dramatic pace.
 
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Dr.Guru of Peru

played the long game
Jun 10, 2004
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I don't even know where to start- the sheer amount of idiocy and factual errors in this thread is overwhelming. It's impossible for one single person to call out each and every thing on his own. nuGAF has turned into the type of echo chamber that neoGAF used to be, but amplified by 10 and replacing the feminists with racists and misogynists.

The facts are this
1) Crime is not skyrocketing in Europe
2) White people are not going extinct
3) Migrants have similar tertiary education attainment as locals, but as a group about 10% more failed to finish secondary school. This does not equal "no education".
4) European immigrants to North America, on the other hand, had virtually no history of any formal education and had their own share of detractors. Lets just say your ancestors didn't look at them with the same rose coloured glasses you're using. Unless you're a descendant of one of these groups, in which case you're just deluded.
4) You can still visit Italy and eat spaghetti
5) Xanax is still prescribed in Europe. See a doctor. I'm there a couple of white ones left.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
Sep 29, 2014
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To be fair (and in my opinion), I don't think these countries would never have advanced without colonization.
What I believe is the issue, is that these countries got accelerated too quickly and ended up with 1st world infrastructure while the natives were still living Neolithic/Hunter-Gatherer lives.
In addition to having borders that were artificially drawn up, it makes the transition into official 1st world status harder when they're dealing with civil wars all the time.

That said, it doesn't mean migration should be the solution. They need to stay behind and fight for stability in their own homelands, where they can hopefully, continue working on their timeline of advancing to 1st world status at a less dramatic pace.
I mean, on a long enough timeline, anything is possible. Hunter/Gatherer tribes who haven't been contacted by western civilization still exist, and they aren't building spacecraft and quantum computers as far as we can tell. Without agriculture, advanced civilization is nearly impossible.

Europe was a crucible to forge strong civilizations due to it's geographic boundaries, climate, abundance of resources and political systems. When they started travelling the world with their technological prowess by the 1500's it was like an AI Ghandi nuking your capital in AD 1277 in a game of Civilization.
 
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JordanN

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nuGAF has turned into the type of echo chamber that neoGAF used to be, but amplified by 10 and replacing the feminists with racists and misogynists.
I hope this doesn't apply to me. Whenever I hear the term "racist" & "sexist" thrown around, I'm expecting to hear really old fashioned people who still believe in owning people as slaves.
So far, I haven't seen such sentiment but instead, the words racist and sexist are used for anyone that touches these topics from a different (but still logical and understandable) point of view.

Dr.Guru of Peru said:
The facts are this
1) Crime is not skyrocketing in Europe
What are we referring to? While I'm going to look for official statistics, I find it hard to deny that events like this are instrictaclly tied to failed migration/assimilation policies.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year's_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany

Dr.Guru of Peru said:
2) White people are not going extinct
I agree. Although, I see "extinct" as being a very long term and sensationalist way of describing the situation of non-white immigration into European countries. There does exist data that suggest White European are in fact, slowly becoming the minority in cities that were traditionally dominated by them. Does it prove extinction? No. But is it still something to be concerned about? Yes.
I look at Japan and for centuries it has remain very homogeneous. But if tomorrow, Tokyo went from being 100% to 50% native Japanese, and the other half became 50% foreign nationality, it would raise eyebrows suggesting why are the demographics changing in such a way that previously, never happened.





Dr.Guru of Peru said:
3) Migrants have similar tertiary education attainment as locals, but as a group about 10% more failed to finish secondary school. This does not equal "no education".
If you're taking the educated migrants from these countries, you are creating a brain drain. We can't ever expect the situation to improve in these countries, if all their top talent are just upping and leaving.

=Dr.Guru of Peru said:
4) European immigrants to North America, on the other hand, had virtually no history of any formal education and had their own share of detractors. Lets just say your ancestors didn't look at them with the same rose coloured glasses you're using. Unless you're a descendant of one of these groups, in which case you're just deluded.
I'm going to skip this question since we know from history, the immigrants who moved here still went on to lead productive and successful lives.

Dr.Guru of Peru said:
4) You can still visit Italy and eat spaghetti
As long as Italy remains majority Italian yes. But if the demographics are expected to change, so would the culture with it.
 
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SatansReverence

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I'm a (((leftist)))* too. How about that? And that whole sentence was a lie, unless you don't read what people post about blacks and gays here. I'm simultaneously about to commit 50% of the murders in America AND corrupt any child I adopt.
*Far leftist. Corrected that for you.

Fun fact, the vast majority of users are still "leftist".

Getting angry that someone used facts and statistics? How very rational and free thinking of you... Just because you belong to the subset of the population that a statistic is derived from, doesn't mean you automatically conform to said statistic. Just like, shock horror I know, white males don't automatically conform to the far leftist patriarchal stereotype that you prescribe to. Please do point out where someone directly said you were going to commit 50% of the murders in America and that you were going to corrupt any child you adopt**

**This one may actually be true but for reasons I doubt you'd be able to comprehend.
 
Likes: King of Foxes
Dec 12, 2013
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I don't even know where to start- the sheer amount of idiocy and factual errors in this thread is overwhelming. It's impossible for one single person to call out each and every thing on his own. nuGAF has turned into the type of echo chamber that neoGAF used to be, but amplified by 10 and replacing the feminists with racists and misogynists.

The facts are this
1) Crime is not skyrocketing in Europe
2) White people are not going extinct
3) Migrants have similar tertiary education attainment as locals, but as a group about 10% more failed to finish secondary school. This does not equal "no education".
4) European immigrants to North America, on the other hand, had virtually no history of any formal education and had their own share of detractors. Lets just say your ancestors didn't look at them with the same rose coloured glasses you're using. Unless you're a descendant of one of these groups, in which case you're just deluded.
4) You can still visit Italy and eat spaghetti
5) Xanax is still prescribed in Europe. See a doctor. I'm there a couple of white ones left.
You come here on your high horse talking about idiocy and "factual errors" and then spout some delusional nonsense that you call "facts" even though they are almost all wrong, it's really hard to know if you actually believe this or if you're just trolling to get a rise out of people. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you're not a European.

http://www.newsweek.com/migrants-europe-violence-crime-germany-study-770105
https://www.politico.eu/article/swe...ty-undoing-peaceful-self-image-law-and-order/
http://cphpost.dk/news/steep-rise-in-violent-assaults-in-copenhagen.html
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/violent-crime-in-sweden-is-soaring-when-will-politicians-act/
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...y-and-is-attributed-to-refugees-idUSKBN1ES16J

I could post links for days about every country. And sure, these European countries aren't as dangerous as many other countries in the world but in the 80s and 90s they had virtually no crime at all, the increase to the levels of crime we see today would very much qualify as "skyrocketing".
 
Likes: CampbellzSoup
Feb 3, 2018
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I don't even know where to start- the sheer amount of idiocy and factual errors in this thread is overwhelming. It's impossible for one single person to call out each and every thing on his own. nuGAF has turned into the type of echo chamber that neoGAF used to be, but amplified by 10 and replacing the feminists with racists and misogynists.

Theres 3 pages of back and forth debate, dont try to deflect and call it an "echo chamber" when its demonstrably not. It quite possible you are the only one who holds your opinion, in that case its on you. You have a few supporters with some weak drive by shitposting, though.


Also, your facts arent facts.
 
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The modern disparities exist because of post-colonialism. Europe's standard of living is the way it is because it exploited other countries around the world via colonization, and now does so via globalization. America still throws the might of its military around, too.

He used "payback." I prefer "reparations."
After WWI the League of nations demanded reparations from Germany, which ultimately lead to WWII and a far greater loss of life and global suffering as a consequence down the road. The idea that a populace should be held accountable for actions that either occurred before they existed or were beyond their direct control is asinine. The history of humanity is written in the exploitation of the weak by the strong. This idea that it's something inherent only to Europe is naive, to say the least.
 
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Payback is a motherfucker.
Bro, I'm black AND gay on NEOGAF.COM in 2018. Any presumption of credibility I might have had on this board is laughable.
I'm a (((leftist))) too. How about that? And that whole sentence was a lie, unless you don't read what people post about blacks and gays here. I'm simultaneously about to commit 50% of the murders in America AND corrupt any child I adopt.
I don't care about your ethnicity, political swing or your sex life. I just want you to post coherent responses. We don't have to agree on issues but we should be civil. You project a pariah complex in an very bigoted manor.
 

JordanN

Junior Member
Apr 21, 2012
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Damn, OT has really gone to the dogs. A bunch of White nationalists in here speaking in racial code, I remember when OT was a refuge from that sort of thing.
I looked up the definition of white nationalism.

"White nationalism is a type of nationalism or pan-nationalism which holds the belief that white people are a race[1] and seeks to develop and maintain a white national identity.[2][3][4] Its proponents identify with and are attached to the concept of a white nation.[5] White nationalists say they seek to ensure the survival of the white race, and the cultures of historically white states. They hold that white people should maintain their majority in majority-white countries, maintain their political and economic dominance, and that their cultures should be foremost.[4] Many white nationalists believe that miscegenation, multiculturalism, immigration of nonwhites and low birth rates among whites are threatening the white race,[6] and some argue that it amounts to white genocide.[6] "

Honestly, that's a weird definition since are we suppose to ignore that white people literally came from Europe and started nations there? Am I a Japanese nationalist for saying that Japan has been mostly Japanese since prehistoric times and remains so today?
That in no way should imply some kind of racism unless it's now considered racist to look at history. Am I a racist for saying the Roman Empire inhabited Europe and not South America, and the Romans were mostly Native Europeans and not Koreans, Mongolians, Aboriginals or Bantu?
 
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