It's funny. When Trump won the election, I was against him

pimentel1

Member
Jul 22, 2018
988
590
340
I hear ya, and agree the left has been out of control. But to me, Trump seems to be “I’m staying out of their squabbles” and hasn’t done anything to reign them in. Mocking them and calling them haters, losers, etc. is all he’s done, and meanwhile, the left continues to demonize people, gets people fired, and gets away with it. It’s the same with the extremists on the right. He does nothing, and he does nothing, just like Obama. Shit is heating up, mass murders are continuing, and he does nothing. So, I’m at the point where I’m going to give someone new a shot and I’m hoping Schultz will run Independent because I think there’s enough moderates on the left and right that are willing to come together to take down the stupid bullshit spewing from the left and right.

Not referring to anyone, but “It’s not just about the economy anymore, stupid.”

Speaking of which, even if he loses the election, Trump would totally accept the outcome, simply because he gets to tout no matter what “I had the greatest economy under my wing”. So, I don’t buy Pelosi’s line that he won’t accept defeat. And they can try, but everyone saying they can get him in jail once he’s out of office is wrong. There are mechanisms in place to protect past Presidents. Nothing happened to Nixon after he flew the coup. Nothing has come of Epstein, his pedophile plane, and the fact that both Bill Clinton and Donald Trump flew on those planes. Even the kids are under a gag order by a judge.
 
Last edited:

matt404au

Gold Member
Apr 25, 2009
10,714
14,477
940
Australia
I'd prefer "Triggered Leftist" if you're going to make cute nicknames like daddy Trump. Also, "not realizing what was going on"? "Basket of deplorables," "rapist Mexicans" "grab em by the pussy." "I think the big problem this country has is being politically correct. I've been challenged by so many people, and I don't frankly have time for total political correctness. And to be honest with you, this country doesn't have time either." --GOP presidential debate in Cleveland, Ohio 8/6/2015

If you didn't realize what was going on, then you weren't paying attention. Much like the OP.
Yes, Trump says things that are often glossed over by the media or presented out of context. Is this news to you?
 
  • Like
Reactions: xGreir

Solomeena

Member
Jan 8, 2018
902
1,130
210
There’s no reason to vote republican. I mean unless you just got to have that off shore tax haven of yours stay tax free or something. Whatever you perceive on the internet as “SJW” or “political correctness” of other people you really don’t know that can alter your view so drastically then you’re either very privileged, incredibly stupid, or should seek treatment.

Instead of worrying about other people. Just vote on issues that actually matter to you.

If you don’t have any issues you’re worried about, maybe don’t vote at all? If you don’t understand what your vote will do, then don’t do anything above your pay grade. You don’t have to vote, you can stay home and yell racial slurs to your gamer buds on the internet.
Man, you are the prototypical SJW aren't you? You don't think Democrats have offshore accounts or something because you are sadly wrong if you think otherwise and naive. I perceive an SJW to be you, period. There is no such thing as Privilege other than if you are born into money, so stop with the stupid bullshit SJW narrative. You have to be stupid to vote for Democrats who are pandering to psycho's like you who want to watch the world turn into a nightmare of censorship and hatred and racism from you sjw's. You are pretty damn racist yourself considering you all but say that Republicans or gamers are white and racist, you need to be cut off from the internet so you can't talk garbage hiding behind an internet connection so you can spew bs.
 

autoduelist

Gold Member
Aug 30, 2014
7,520
3,981
495
I just want to point out I don't think we should completely ignore the other side. Echo chambers are still a bad thing.

Left & Right can still exist. What shouldn't exist are Politicians who are willing to sell out their nation to the highest bidder.
I don't know if left and right can still exist in their current form.

I realize there are many scales and spectrums here, making terms really hard to use.

But my main point is limited to one spectrum, which is conservative vs. Progressive in regards to
A] the need for legislation to resolve things [the general left/progressive view] vs. Just keeping government out of it and leaving people to themselves [the general conservative and libertarian perspective on most issues]. The idea that the right is the opposite of socially liberal is a bit of a misnomer due to certain other spectrums, like religion, but in general most conservatives just want people to be left alone.

B] speed of change. Progressives tend to want to legislate now. Conservatives tend to not want to legislate at all, and if change must happen, take it slow and steady.

I think this all worked well before mass media. There was a balancing act, with the left often pulling the right towards good ideas, and the right holding the reins and keeping the left from making mistakes. Change occurred over a generation or five. Baby steps, doing our best to get it right, switching parties back and forth every 8 years to course correct.

Then technology sped everything up. First just editing of films and tvs... watch a 70s film, then watch anything modern. That was creating stress on the balance, but then came the internet. I think modern technology has caused the far left to enter hyperspeed, needing every crazy whim of theirs done NOW and screaming bloody murder if it isnt. And the right is trying to hold back these people, because they look like crazed lunatics.

We see this on every issue. We suddenly have politicians praising socialism. The whole trans issue, especially as it relates to sports. We're no longer debating safe, legal, and rare abortions, but 3rd and even post birth abortions. It's no longer how to solve immigration, but open borders. They're not just pulling left, it's a full on charge.

Basically, I think the far left has been driven insane, for lack of a better word, and the mainstream left, who so badly want to be seen as morally right, are following them off the cliff because they're scared of being called -ist or -phobe. I don't think the far left is fit to govern, and I don't think the left is fit either as long as they're playing this game. It doesn't help that the DNC is thoroughly corrupt and that the media is adding to the chaos with russiagate, etc.

I don't know what the solution is. I'm not sure anyone will like it.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DunDunDunpachi

Dead1612

Neophyte
Feb 6, 2019
6
1
70
I don't know if left and right can still exist in their current form.

I realize there are many scales and spectrums here, making terms really hard to use.

But my main point is limited to one spectrum, which is conservative vs. Progressive in regards to
A] the need for legislation to resolve things [the general left/progressive view] vs. Just keeping government out of it and leaving people to themselves [the general conservative and libertarian perspective on most issues]. The idea that the right is the opposite of socially liberal is a bit of a misnomer due to certain other spectrums, like religion, but in general most conservatives just want people to be left alone.

B] speed of change. Progressives tend to want to legislate now. Conservatives tend to not want to legislate at all, and if change must happen, take it slow and steady.

I think this all worked well before mass media. There was a balancing act, with the left often pulling the right towards good ideas, and the right holding the reins and keeping the left from making mistakes. Change occurred over a generation or five. Baby steps, doing our best to get it right, switching parties back and forth every 8 years to course correct.

Then technology sped everything up. First just editing of films and tvs... watch a 70s film, then watch anything modern. That was creating stress on the balance, but then came the internet. I think modern technology has caused the far left to enter hyperspeed, needing every crazy whim of theirs done NOW and screaming bloody murder if it isnt. And the right is trying to hold back these people, because they look like crazed lunatics.

We see this on every issue. We suddenly have politicians praising socialism. The whole trans issue, especially as it relates to sports. We're no longer debating safe, legal, and rare abortions, but 3rd and even post birth abortions. It's no longer how to solve immigration, but open borders. They're not just pulling left, it's a full on charge.

Basically, I think the far left has been driven insane, for lack of a better word, and the mainstream left, who so badly want to be seen as morally right, are following them off the cliff because they're scared of being called -ist or -phobe. I don't think the far left is fit to govern, and I don't think the left is fit either as long as they're playing this game. It doesn't help that the DNC is thoroughly corrupt and that the media is adding to the chaos with russiagate, etc.

I don't know what the solution is. I'm not sure anyone will like it.
i agree with you completely that mass media, and especially the internet is serving to catalyze change, and ultimately i think that change will be toward more regulation and authoritarianism, as much as i hope that's not true. separate from political change (and pretty off-topic, i admit), the internet speeds up communication and evolves social thought so fast that i actually think it will mark the next major environmental pressure that will cause the next step in human evolution. ultimately, i think it will promote as much change to human genes as other huge evolutionary changes, such as opposable thumbs, development of language, higher cognitive function (controlling fire, using the wheel, etc). in 200 - 500 years, i think humans will be very very different from what they are today. super intelligent ai/human hybrids will probably be more different from us than we are from neanderthals 100,000 years ago. anyway, off-topic, so i'll stop there.
 

Weilthain

Member
Aug 6, 2013
913
258
340
Trump was basically elected by the conduct of the media and the democrats. They've doubled down with their self-sabotaging behaviour, so in 2020 he will be elected even harder.
I watched all the primaries, debates and build up to the election, then saw the media spin/reporting on it. That’s all it took for me. I’m not even American.
 
Yeah Im with you OP. I voted Hillary simply because I think Trump may do more harm than good. But the both were awful choices for their respective parties. Both praying on fears and hate to bolster support. While I think Trump has done some good, my initial fears seem to be confirmed. But he did do some good things.

Trump Pros

1. He was ale to break through the left puritanical blockade which went after a persons lively hood by getting the fired, social media attacks, boycotts, etc.

2. He called out the fact that the US is still footing the bill for world defense.

3. He combated the hyperbole of the left with his own flavor of it.

4. States proudly that its ok to love this country.

5. America needed a stronger negotiator for its interests.

Trump Cons

1. He takes stands on things that ultimately will not help this country, the wall, Middle east ban, Trans military ban etc

2. He uses language that has enables his opposition. He has done more to move people to the left than anyone on either party and has made it impossible for many moderates in the media to support him.

3. He's a buffoon who has stumbled into problems with Russia (BS for the most part) Calling on them publicly to get Hillary's emails was stupid. Sending Trump jr to that meeting was stupid. Putting himself in a position where he denouncing it would de-legitimatize his presidency was stupid.

4. His ego controls his actions and prevents any growth. (To be fair the press has attacked him more than any president in my living history)

5. He's a petty man who is easily prodded into an emotional reaction.

6. He's his own worst enemy.


I excepted him as our president and still do. I liked Joe Biden but he's a bit long in the tooth. Nothing I see from the left atm looks like its going to help us with them in a mad dash to fight over who can virtue signal the most and use racial differences to play on peoples fears. I can't see myself voting for Trunp in 2020 but I may not vote against him
 
  • Like
Reactions: Catphish

Acerac

Banned
May 20, 2007
10,222
582
950
Trump has helped me hate Democrats more.

I still hate Republicans, but now I realize that the alternative is quite rancid as well.

The current political system is devouring the nation that houses it and leaves only tears in it's wake.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DryvBy

DryvBy

Member
May 10, 2009
10,700
922
1,070
USA
www.youtube.com
I've always been a conservative and I don't think Trump is one at all but I like his attitude. He gives the finger to the political hacks out there and has shown the world how fascist the left is, silencing speech and beating people up for their views. He's a 80s/90s liberal which wasn't near as bad as whatever crap they're pushing.

Rand Paul 2020 for me though. Less government is all I want
 

autoduelist

Gold Member
Aug 30, 2014
7,520
3,981
495
I've always been a conservative and I don't think Trump is one at all but I like his attitude. He gives the finger to the political hacks out there and has shown the world how fascist the left is, silencing speech and beating people up for their views. He's a 80s/90s liberal which wasn't near as bad as whatever crap they're pushing.

Rand Paul 2020 for me though. Less government is all I want
2024 and 2028. Hope his dad lives long enough to see it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DryvBy

Riven326

Member
Mar 25, 2019
81
71
150
United States
There’s no reason to vote republican. I mean unless you just got to have that off shore tax haven of yours stay tax free or something. Whatever you perceive on the internet as “SJW” or “political correctness” of other people you really don’t know that can alter your view so drastically then you’re either very privileged, incredibly stupid, or should seek treatment.

Instead of worrying about other people. Just vote on issues that actually matter to you.

If you don’t have any issues you’re worried about, maybe don’t vote at all? If you don’t understand what your vote will do, then don’t do anything above your pay grade. You don’t have to vote, you can stay home and yell racial slurs to your gamer buds on the internet.
President Trump is likely to win reelection due in large part to people like yourself. We appreciate your support. Thank you.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: sahlberg
Mar 28, 2017
508
182
220
Sheffield, UK
mixer.com
...and I vowed to vote straight Democrat until the end of his term.

Historically, I've always been left-leaning, though I am registered Independent.

But since his election, after watching how the left, from Congress all the way down to the local SJW, has conducted itself, how they've been behaving, I have to admit, I feel like I HAVE to vote Republican now because the threat I see from THEIR fucking insanity is greater than any threat I EVER perceived from Trump or his presidency. I voted straight-Republican in the mid-terms.

I NEVER thought I would feel, not only justified, but OBLIGATED to vote straight Republican, even if only to counter the lunacy of the modern day left wing.

It really blows my mind. If I could vote today, I would vote for Trump, and it's largely his opposition that convinced me to do so. And I know I'm not the only one.

So gg, bat-shit left.
How I felt when I use to vote for Liberal Democrats (UK) after the Brexit referendum. They want to overturn the result and call for a 2nd vote because they did not agree with the results.
 

1.21Gigawatts

can't help talking about pedophiles
Nov 24, 2012
8,393
177
550
munich
Well, the US now has a President who is a self proclaimed nationalist and ideologically closer to Russia than to the post WW2 western order.
The US has alienated all of its western allies and lost the respect of any rational and civilized government.
While Trump doesn't get along with democratic and pluralistic states who represent western values, he gets along very well with dictators and despots who represent authoritarianism.

Trump has no idea what he is doing, so he put lobbyists directly in charge of the ministries they formerly had to lobby in order to exert some influence on.

CEO of one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the world, now in charge of national defense.
Fossil fuel lobbyist, now in charge of environmental protection agency.
Hedge fund manager, now in charge of the treasury.
Oil lobbyist, now in charge of interior.
Wall Street investor, now in charge of commerce.
Pharma lobbyist, now in charge of health and human services.

Thereby effectively ending corruption, because when corporations run the country to begin with, there is no need for corruption anymore. Corporate interest has been put above public interest. Facts, science, expertise don't matter anymore, because there is nobody left who cares.

The US has never had a good democratic system and it has always allowed for corruption to take hold, special interests were always able to push their interests over the interests of the public, their views and spins over facts.
But under Trump this has been dialed up to eleven and on top of that the US has undergone an ideological shift, from a liberal, pluralistic Republic thats politically right, to a nationalist, populist, authoritarian kleptocracy thats politically extreme right.

Trump is a mix of everything the US fought against over the past 80 years. Trump embodies the exact opposite of the western values the US tried to spread over the past 80 years.


Europe is now alone upholding liberal civilized standards. Surrounded by backwards and authoritarian ideology in the east (Russia and China) and now also in the West(the US). But in Europe these values are also under attack from the far right.
It's as if capitalism has afforded us a few decades of such wealth that we were able to find our humanity and rationality, but as soon as capitalism is at its wits end we regress into our primitive, savage and dull state.

If Trump and his ideology aren't exposed, this will mark the end of US leadership in the world for good.
For decades Russia tried to come up with something to fend off US influence, the same is true for China. They were legitimately scared that they would lose the battle of ideologies against the West. Not anymore.
Who knew that all it would take was a little nationalist populism and it would all come crumbling down.


But yeah, its the people pointing out all these issue who are the real problem.
 

bucyou

Gold Member
Feb 3, 2018
960
1,116
335
Well, the US now has a President who is a self proclaimed nationalist and ideologically closer to Russia than to the post WW2 western order.
The US has alienated all of its western allies and lost the respect of any rational and civilized government.
While Trump doesn't get along with democratic and pluralistic states who represent western values, he gets along very well with dictators and despots who represent authoritarianism.

Trump has no idea what he is doing, so he put lobbyists directly in charge of the ministries they formerly had to lobby in order to exert some influence on.

CEO of one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the world, now in charge of national defense.
Fossil fuel lobbyist, now in charge of environmental protection agency.
Hedge fund manager, now in charge of the treasury.
Oil lobbyist, now in charge of interior.
Wall Street investor, now in charge of commerce.
Pharma lobbyist, now in charge of health and human services.

Thereby effectively ending corruption, because when corporations run the country to begin with, there is no need for corruption anymore. Corporate interest has been put above public interest. Facts, science, expertise don't matter anymore, because there is nobody left who cares.

The US has never had a good democratic system and it has always allowed for corruption to take hold, special interests were always able to push their interests over the interests of the public, their views and spins over facts.
But under Trump this has been dialed up to eleven and on top of that the US has undergone an ideological shift, from a liberal, pluralistic Republic thats politically right, to a nationalist, populist, authoritarian kleptocracy thats politically extreme right.

Trump is a mix of everything the US fought against over the past 80 years. Trump embodies the exact opposite of the western values the US tried to spread over the past 80 years.


Europe is now alone upholding liberal civilized standards. Surrounded by backwards and authoritarian ideology in the east (Russia and China) and now also in the West(the US). But in Europe these values are also under attack from the far right.
It's as if capitalism has afforded us a few decades of such wealth that we were able to find our humanity and rationality, but as soon as capitalism is at its wits end we regress into our primitive, savage and dull state.

If Trump and his ideology aren't exposed, this will mark the end of US leadership in the world for good.
For decades Russia tried to come up with something to fend off US influence, the same is true for China. They were legitimately scared that they would lose the battle of ideologies against the West. Not anymore.
Who knew that all it would take was a little nationalist populism and it would all come crumbling down.


But yeah, its the people pointing out all these issue who are the real problem.



saying a lot and nothing at the same time
 
  • LOL
Reactions: spandexmonkey

danielberg

Member
Jun 20, 2018
2,047
2,215
240
Well, the US now has a President who is a self proclaimed nationalist and ideologically closer to Russia than to the post WW2 western order.
Still Repeating muh russia crap doesnt make it true but it does make you delusional concerning US and russia, US building up on russias border, telling germany to stop using russian gas and fucking them over geopolitically isnt favorably to russia no matter how invested you are in a already debunked conspiracy.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Oner

1.21Gigawatts

can't help talking about pedophiles
Nov 24, 2012
8,393
177
550
munich
Still Repeating muh russia crap doesnt make it true but it does make you delusional concerning US and russia, US building up on russias border, telling germany to stop using russian gas and fucking them over geopolitically isnt favorably to russia no matter how invested you are in a already debunked conspiracy.
What I wrote has nothing to do with the Russia stories.
I was talking about ideology.
Trumps ideology, at least what permeated through his actions so far, is virtually indistinguishable from the civilizational ideology Russia has built up over the past 15 years.
Trump and Putin are ideologically extremely close and this is true regardless of whether you think Putin helped Trump get elected.
They are both authoritarian, kleptocratic, populist, nationalists, decidedly anti-western and anti-liberal.


But I also think its ridiculous to say that Russian interference is a "debunked conspiracy" considering that Russia hacked US election hardware, spread huge amounts of specifically designed online propaganda, was in direct contact with the Trump campaign and aided them with manufacturing talking points against Trumps political opponent.
These are all established facts.
What we can't conclusively prove yet is whether or not this activity had a significant effect on the election results, but considering how close the race was its hard to imagine that it wasn't a deciding factor.
And what also can't be conclusively proven yet is the nature and extent of cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russia, which is mostly because the Trump hindered the investigation where ever and when ever he could.


The thing is, how do you think would it look like if a foreign government would install a puppet in the highest office of the US?
It would be someone who is ideologically in line with the foreign government.-> Trump and Putin, absolutely in line.
It would be someone who can convey foreign ideology under a guise. -> Anti-western ideology under the guise of populist nationalism.
It would work with as little direct cooperation as possible.
And in order to not be exposed US institutions and media need to be gradually discredited, fact and fiction need to become obtuse(projection), and important positions need to be gradually replaced.

In the hypothetical case of a crime syndicate cooperating with a foreign government to hijack the Presidency of the United States, this is exactly what it would look like.


I'm personally always been someone who believed in peoples incompetence rather than malicious intent. But in this case I don't even know what the difference would be.
 

matt404au

Gold Member
Apr 25, 2009
10,714
14,477
940
Australia
What I wrote has nothing to do with the Russia stories.
I was talking about ideology.
Trumps ideology, at least what permeated through his actions so far, is virtually indistinguishable from the civilizational ideology Russia has built up over the past 15 years.
Trump and Putin are ideologically extremely close and this is true regardless of whether you think Putin helped Trump get elected.
They are both authoritarian, kleptocratic, populist, nationalists, decidedly anti-western and anti-liberal.


But I also think its ridiculous to say that Russian interference is a "debunked conspiracy" considering that Russia hacked US election hardware, spread huge amounts of specifically designed online propaganda, was in direct contact with the Trump campaign and aided them with manufacturing talking points against Trumps political opponent.
These are all established facts.
What we can't conclusively prove yet is whether or not this activity had a significant effect on the election results, but considering how close the race was its hard to imagine that it wasn't a deciding factor.
And what also can't be conclusively proven yet is the nature and extent of cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russia, which is mostly because the Trump hindered the investigation where ever and when ever he could.


The thing is, how do you think would it look like if a foreign government would install a puppet in the highest office of the US?
It would be someone who is ideologically in line with the foreign government.-> Trump and Putin, absolutely in line.
It would be someone who can convey foreign ideology under a guise. -> Anti-western ideology under the guise of populist nationalism.
It would work with as little direct cooperation as possible.
And in order to not be exposed US institutions and media need to be gradually discredited, fact and fiction need to become obtuse(projection), and important positions need to be gradually replaced.

In the hypothetical case of a crime syndicate cooperating with a foreign government to hijack the Presidency of the United States, this is exactly what it would look like.


I'm personally always been someone who believed in peoples incompetence rather than malicious intent. But in this case I don't even know what the difference would be.
Hahaha you are so broken
 

Tesseract

Crushed by Thanos
Dec 7, 2008
31,997
3,263
1,100
What I wrote has nothing to do with the Russia stories.
I was talking about ideology.
Trumps ideology, at least what permeated through his actions so far, is virtually indistinguishable from the civilizational ideology Russia has built up over the past 15 years.
Trump and Putin are ideologically extremely close and this is true regardless of whether you think Putin helped Trump get elected.
They are both authoritarian, kleptocratic, populist, nationalists, decidedly anti-western and anti-liberal.


But I also think its ridiculous to say that Russian interference is a "debunked conspiracy" considering that Russia hacked US election hardware, spread huge amounts of specifically designed online propaganda, was in direct contact with the Trump campaign and aided them with manufacturing talking points against Trumps political opponent.
These are all established facts.
What we can't conclusively prove yet is whether or not this activity had a significant effect on the election results, but considering how close the race was its hard to imagine that it wasn't a deciding factor.
And what also can't be conclusively proven yet is the nature and extent of cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russia, which is mostly because the Trump hindered the investigation where ever and when ever he could.


The thing is, how do you think would it look like if a foreign government would install a puppet in the highest office of the US?
It would be someone who is ideologically in line with the foreign government.-> Trump and Putin, absolutely in line.
It would be someone who can convey foreign ideology under a guise. -> Anti-western ideology under the guise of populist nationalism.
It would work with as little direct cooperation as possible.
And in order to not be exposed US institutions and media need to be gradually discredited, fact and fiction need to become obtuse(projection), and important positions need to be gradually replaced.

In the hypothetical case of a crime syndicate cooperating with a foreign government to hijack the Presidency of the United States, this is exactly what it would look like.


I'm personally always been someone who believed in peoples incompetence rather than malicious intent. But in this case I don't even know what the difference would be.
what about trump's actions makes him indistinguishable from russia's civilizational (fuq?) ideology, you need to be specific

trump and putin are not ideologically similar; i guess trump's arming the black sea, syrian bombing, arming of ukraines, begging merkel to pull out of russian oil imports, extolling of russian sanctions put them super best buddy close to each other ideologically civilizationalogically

russia did not hack us election hardware, and their huge amounts of specifically designed online propaganda (goddamn dude EDIT your posts down, $1 words > $10) was a few hundred grand of social media botnet targeting of various political and business spheres

we can conclusively prove it had no effect on the election because obama, the many intelligent agencies, and the goddamn mueller report say so

the rest is just too hot garbage for me, you need to examine your reality bubble and write shorter sentences

 
Last edited:
  • Fire
  • Like
Reactions: Oner and matt404au

1.21Gigawatts

can't help talking about pedophiles
Nov 24, 2012
8,393
177
550
munich
what about trump's actions makes him indistinguishable from russia's civilizational (fuq?) ideology, you need to be specific
Well, I think it would make more sense if I explains Russias civilizational ideology, because you apparently haven't heard of the term and so I assume you also don't know what Russias civilizational ideology is.

Basically, Putin believe that any global power needs to have an ideology it wants to export into the world.
The West did that, with capitalism and democracy and stuff like human rights(or rather individual rights).
The Soviet Union had communism, but after the collapse of the Soviet Union there was nothing at first.
Around 2000 Putin began to define a new Russian ideology. Revolving around a clear opposition to western values and a clear embrace of nationalism and a strong concept of identity.
The Russian Orthodox Church played a central role here. Formerly oppressed in the Soviet Union it became a central pillar of Russian identity now. Even though most Russians still don't believe in god, they are still members of the ROC, because it's more about Russian identity than a believe system with specific aspects like monotheism.
And ROC representatives are also the most candid about Russian ideology:
Fr Vsevolod Chapin of the Moscow Patriarchate:
„multiconfessionality, multiparty systems, separation of powers, competition, administrative conflicts—all that the present political system takes such pride in—are symptoms of spiritual unhealthiness. The very existence of a pluralistic democracy is none other than a direct result of sin“

Moscow Patriarch Kirill:
„the fundamental contradiction of our epoch...is the opposition of liberal civilized standards on the one hand(West), and the values of national, cultural and religious identity on the other(Russia)“



Now what does Trump do?
He attacks Muslims, uses them as scapegoats and for his fearmongering.
He attacks and questions the legitimacy of his political opponents all the time.
He is furious and very vocal about his frustration with the separation of powers.
His entire rhetoric is deeply anti pluralism.
On the other hand he embraces the values of national, cultural and religious identity. These are central pillars of his way of appealing to voters.


trump and putin are not ideologically similar; i guess trump's arming the black sea, syrian bombing, arming of ukraines, begging merkel to pull out of russian oil imports, extolling of russian sanctions put them super best buddy close to each other ideologically civilizationalogically
None of that bothers Putin...
Putins presence in Ukraine is a provocation to the West, by design. All Putin wants to show here is that there is nothing you do about it.
His presence in northern Africa is strategic in the sense that political instability in northern Africa by extension means political instability in Europe through rising nationalist tendencies as a result of continuous refugee streams.
How this political instability is achieve in northern Africa Putin couldn't care less about.
As long as it is consistently driven people to the right, Putin is happy. And he is also, unsurprisingly, financially supporting the far-right, anti-refugee, anti-EU parties in Europe and he is staging a massive propaganda effort to drove home their points about the dangers of refugees and the EU.

Regarding german gas imports(I think you confused gas with oil here), the US position is a joke no one takes seriously.
And Russia knows that there is zero chance that Germany will comply with this brain fart.
Even at the height of the cold war Germany has imported Russian gas, the EU has always considered economic ties the best guarantee for peace. There is no rational reason why the US would take the position it has here, so I assume this is just a Kansas City Shuffle.

The sanctions are the only thing thats actually hurting Russia, but Trump has already significantly lessened them.

russia did not hack us election hardware,

and their huge amounts of specifically designed online propaganda (goddamn dude EDIT your posts down, $1 words > $10) was a few hundred grand of social media botnet targeting of various political and business spheres
Don't forget the 60+ Million Facebook profile they mined and analyzed in order to purpose build propaganda thats most likely to convince the people in question.

we can conclusively prove it had no effect on the election because obama, the many intelligent agencies, and the goddamn mueller report say so
Come on, neither of them said so and you know that.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: matt404au

danielberg

Member
Jun 20, 2018
2,047
2,215
240
What I wrote has nothing to do with the Russia stories.
I was talking about ideology.
Trumps ideology, at least what permeated through his actions so far, is virtually indistinguishable from the civilizational ideology Russia has built up over the past 15 years.
Trump and Putin are ideologically extremely close and this is true regardless of whether you think Putin helped Trump get elected.
They are both authoritarian, kleptocratic, populist, nationalists, decidedly anti-western and anti-liberal.


But I also think its ridiculous to say that Russian interference is a "debunked conspiracy" considering that Russia hacked US election hardware, spread huge amounts of specifically designed online propaganda, was in direct contact with the Trump campaign and aided them with manufacturing talking points against Trumps political opponent.
These are all established facts.
What we can't conclusively prove yet is whether or not this activity had a significant effect on the election results, but considering how close the race was its hard to imagine that it wasn't a deciding factor.
And what also can't be conclusively proven yet is the nature and extent of cooperation between the Trump campaign and Russia, which is mostly because the Trump hindered the investigation where ever and when ever he could.
Name dropping russia every time trump comes up has become a habit for some even after collusion has been disproved.
Making up even more unproven claims like "virtually indistinguishable from the civilizational ideology Russia has built up over the past 15 years." is just more of the same as is the slight shift to "yeah but russia hacked the US election" as if it actually changed anything or as if it has anything to do with trump.
Same for your "what if" scenario on a already debunked narrative, in fact you are using your own newly made up unproven claim (anti west, ideology same as russia, pro russia) to push.
So meh Agree to disagree and all that.

The thing is, how do you think would it look like if a foreign government would install a puppet in the highest office of the US?
It would be someone who is ideologically in line with the foreign government.-> Trump and Putin, absolutely in line.
It would be someone who can convey foreign ideology under a guise. -> Anti-western ideology under the guise of populist nationalism.
It would work with as little direct cooperation as possible.
And in order to not be exposed US institutions and media need to be gradually discredited, fact and fiction need to become obtuse(projection), and important positions need to be gradually replaced.
In the hypothetical case of a crime syndicate cooperating with a foreign government to hijack the Presidency of the United States, this is exactly what it would look like.
 

autoduelist

Gold Member
Aug 30, 2014
7,520
3,981
495
On the other hand he embraces the values of national, cultural and religious identity. These are central pillars of his way of appealing to voters.
Holy fuck, you're telling me the president of a Western superpower supports the concept of national identity? Borders!?Patriotism? Baseball, apple pie, wrestling, and nascar? Judeo-Christian values?

What the fuck? What is this world coming to? We're living in bizarro world!
 

1.21Gigawatts

can't help talking about pedophiles
Nov 24, 2012
8,393
177
550
munich
Holy fuck, you're telling me the president of a Western superpower supports the concept of national identity? Borders!?Patriotism? Baseball, apple pie, wrestling, and nascar? Judeo-Christian values?

What the fuck? What is this world coming to? We're living in bizarro world!
Thats not what attracted the people who marched in Charlottesville and emboldened white supremacists across the country and beyond the countries borders. Trump also sparks hope in Nazi parties and far-right parties across Europe.
Don't act like you don't see what Trump is doing, thats embarrassing behavior.
 

matt404au

Gold Member
Apr 25, 2009
10,714
14,477
940
Australia
Thats not what attracted the people who marched in Charlottesville and emboldened white supremacists across the country and beyond the countries borders. Trump also sparks hope in Nazi parties and far-right parties across Europe.
Don't act like you don't see what Trump is doing, thats embarrassing behavior.
The opportunity to LARP as communist revolutionaries is what attracted many to march in Charlottesville.

 
  • Like
Reactions: Oner

autoduelist

Gold Member
Aug 30, 2014
7,520
3,981
495
Thats not what attracted the people who marched in Charlottesville and emboldened white supremacists across the country and beyond the countries borders. Trump also sparks hope in Nazi parties and far-right parties across Europe.
Don't act like you don't see what Trump is doing, thats embarrassing behavior.
Fuck off with your social chastizing. Why the fuck would I care what you think is embarrassing? I'm not part of a hive mind.
 
Last edited:

1.21Gigawatts

can't help talking about pedophiles
Nov 24, 2012
8,393
177
550
munich
The opportunity to LARP as communist revolutionaries is what attracted many to march in Charlottesville.


You have Nazis marching in your streets, happy and cheerful in the face of a President who they see on their side, and you worry about Antifa?

You are either know nothing or you are delusional yourself.
 

chaos789

Member
Nov 21, 2012
603
204
420
Trump has no idea what he is doing, so he put lobbyists directly in charge of the ministries they formerly had to lobby in order to exert some influence on.

CEO of one of the largest weapons manufacturers in the world, now in charge of national defense.
Fossil fuel lobbyist, now in charge of environmental protection agency.
Hedge fund manager, now in charge of the treasury.
Oil lobbyist, now in charge of interior.
Wall Street investor, now in charge of commerce.
Pharma lobbyist, now in charge of health and human services.
This part I absolutely agree with and it is a major problem. It was a problem in previous administrations as well, but has only gotten much worse under the Trump administration.

Pruitt and now Wheeler have stacked the Science Advisory Panel with Gas & Oil, Mining, and Chemical Industry heads. You cannot have environmental regulation when those who are being regulated are in control. Which is problem in all regulatory agencies.

That is another reason Republican politicians stand by Trump because this is what they always wanted. For instance the Democratic controlled House pass a Net Neutrality Bill, but Sen. McConnel refuses to bring it to the Senate floor for a vote. Something he has done several times now with other House passed measures.
 

AmaiMask

Member
Mar 16, 2019
58
125
160
It's not hyperbole to say that the 2020 elections will be the single most important elections we've had probably since this countries inception. We're at a fork in the road for 2 radically different Americas.
 
Last edited:

1.21Gigawatts

can't help talking about pedophiles
Nov 24, 2012
8,393
177
550
munich
Fuck off with your social chastizing. Why the fuck would I care what you think is embarrassing? I'm not part of a hive mind.
It's your decision to be racist, sexist, homophobic. Its your decision to support a hateful idiot like Trump or at least defend him through some moral relativist shit flinging.

So you have to deal with being called out for it and you don't get to be butthurt over it. You reap what you sow.
You might have your safe spaces online where this is behavior is accepted, even encouraged, but in the real world it just makes you an asshole and pointing towards a president who is an asshole, too, is not an excuse.
 

matt404au

Gold Member
Apr 25, 2009
10,714
14,477
940
Australia
It's your decision to be racist, sexist, homophobic. Its your decision to support a hateful idiot like Trump or at least defend him through some moral relativist shit flinging.

So you have to deal with being called out for it and you don't get to be butthurt over it. You reap what you sow.
You might have your safe spaces online where this is behavior is accepted, even encouraged, but in the real world it just makes you an asshole and pointing towards a president who is an asshole, too, is not an excuse.
Don't you have some means of production to be seizing?
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Ryujin

1.21Gigawatts

can't help talking about pedophiles
Nov 24, 2012
8,393
177
550
munich
Don't you have some means of production to be seizing?

The beautiful thing about social democracy is that I got to go to school for 12 years, followed by 8 years of university, all for free, while I had full health insurance, was easily able to afford a good debt free student life with just some little chill jobs on the side, and after all that I now get to make good money while still being able to shit on capitalism, partially for a living even.

But to answer your question why I am still here: After years of regularly smoking weed it appears I have caught a slight sleeping problem.
 

matt404au

Gold Member
Apr 25, 2009
10,714
14,477
940
Australia
The beautiful thing about social democracy is that I got to go to school for 12 years, followed by 8 years of university, all for free, while I had full health insurance, was easily able to afford a good debt free student life with just some little chill jobs on the side, and after all that I now get to make good money while still being able to shit on capitalism, partially for a living even.

But to answer your question why I am still here: After years of regularly smoking weed it appears I have caught a slight sleeping problem.
Great, now explain the historical conditions that allowed you to enjoy such privileges (I mean this in the truest sense of the word, not your ideologically weaponised meaning).
 
  • Fire
Reactions: Oner and Ryujin

autoduelist

Gold Member
Aug 30, 2014
7,520
3,981
495
It's your decision to be racist, sexist, homophobic. Its your decision to support a hateful idiot like Trump or at least defend him through some moral relativist shit flinging.

So you have to deal with being called out for it and you don't get to be butthurt over it. You reap what you sow.
You might have your safe spaces online where this is behavior is accepted, even encouraged, but in the real world it just makes you an asshole and pointing towards a president who is an asshole, too, is not an excuse.
I'm not racist, sexist, or homophobic. I think Democratic party policies are racist as hell, though.

I dont believe Trump is hateful, I think you are. I think he's crass, loutish, and trollish. But hateful? No.

And I didn't say shit about you calling anything out, I said shit about your collectivist social shaming.

The fact that you think I'm all those things is absolutely hilarious. I've been on the far left longer than most people on this site have been alive. Then the far left turned into identitarian crazy cultists with fascistic tendencies. Just because they call themselves antifa doesn't mean I dont recognize everything the left stood against only a decade ago.
 

1.21Gigawatts

can't help talking about pedophiles
Nov 24, 2012
8,393
177
550
munich
Great, now explain the historical conditions that allowed you to enjoy such privileges (I mean this in the truest sense of the word, not your ideologically weaponised meaning).
The most direct historical conditions that lead to these privileges are that the Nazis were defeated and a bunch of Marxists got to rebuild german ideology from scratch and the result was social democracy in a social market economy as opposed to a free market economy. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_market_economy)

And of course these are privileges, in the same way I use the term.
I was born into one of the richest and safest countries in the world, into a time where my class or the wealth of my family(or lack thereof) matters very little when it comes to the opportunities I get, and I am also a straight, white male and even though I am technically a 3rd generation immigrant I don't remember a single instance where me belonging to the "norm" was questioned by anyone. I never had any obstacles placed in my way because of who I was. I never had to hide or justify or prove anything.

But because this is so nice, I want to work towards a world where everyone gets to enjoy such privileges.
 

crowbrow

Member
Feb 28, 2019
330
477
200
If Trump and his ideology aren't exposed, this will mark the end of US leadership in the world for good
And that, my friend, is a good thing. This is possibly the main reason why i wanted Trump to win.

US leadershop has never respected democracy or "western" values. It has always pretended to have though. At least under Trump we get that straightforward instead of getting the usual hypocrisy of corporate democrats pretending to be so virtuos while undermining democracy around the world. I prefer a honest enemy than someone who pretends to be your friend but is full of shit.
 

autoduelist

Gold Member
Aug 30, 2014
7,520
3,981
495
I never had any obstacles placed in my way because of who I was. I never had to hide or justify or prove anything.

But because this is so nice, I want to work towards a world where everyone gets to enjoy such privileges.
So you want a world where people are measured not by their race, creed, or skin color. Where they are free to do what they want, how they want, and sell their labor, or the fruits of their labor, for a fair market value without a monolithic government putting its finger on the scale and forcing people to work for wages the state dictates, forcing people to sell goods at prices the state dictates, and then having the state taking the lions share of said labor's earnings in taxation?

Where people can speak their mind or tell a joke without fear of being arrested in the night? Where they can protect themselves if neccessary? Where they can dream big, and with elbow grease and a bit of luck, make it happen? Where they are free to risk it all, as long as they are prepared to lose whatever is risked? Where the state understands it is a servant of the people, and not the other way around?

Where individualism is regarded as a virtue, because you are you and not your skin color, or ethnicity, or gender? Where the people will cross a great ocean to fight and destroy evil fascistic leaders if neccessary? That is... you want to make America great again? And have it serve as a shining beacon to the world as to what liberty and hard work can accomplish?

Sounds great. Sign me up.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
  • Fire
Reactions: Oner and Dead1612

Arelyon

Neo Member
Mar 8, 2019
19
13
80
I think western civilization is done, I thought Trump had a chance at saving it but it seems only him is able to fight Marxism and win and the right has learned nothing at all, so at best he only has delayed collapse a decade or two.
 

Boss Mog

Gold Member
Dec 12, 2013
4,241
2,814
540
All I remember during the election was the democrats saying that Trump wasn't going to concede when Hillary beats him and that he will challenge the results and undermine democracy. Meanwhile the dems have been doing that very same thing non-stop for two and a half years, trying to get Trump out of office by any means possible.
 
Last edited:

Kenpachii

Member
Mar 23, 2018
1,125
691
270
This has been evident since the 1920's and 30's. It's exactly how Fascism came to rise. Thanks to a bunch of ultra-leftists going full retard.
That's exactly how it works. We had a recent example of it in the netherlands. where a tv show that a lot of people watch ( talking around a table ) invited a full group of left wing people that shat the whole night on 60% of the population like they where retarded and idiots and don't understand stuff. While in reality these guys all sit in a bubble not even remotely knowing what goes on in any mid or low end house hold financially the people that make it possible for them to live like a entitled twat.

Guess what happened, that right wing party won the next day in elections, as people get triggered and went out of there way to vote ( even while they normally didn't vote ) against whatever these clowns where for.

They also always speak out of autority and whenever shit isn't going the way they want, its either resulting to personal insults / censor / or simple closing the discussion. Which gets them the label of communist.
 
Last edited:

Zaru

Member
Oct 2, 2012
3,296
218
410
So you want a world where people are measured not by their race, creed, or skin color. Where they are free to do what they want, how they want, and sell their labor, or the fruits of their labor, for a fair market value without a monolithic government putting its finger on the scale and forcing people to work for wages the state dictates, forcing people to sell goods at prices the state dictates, and then having the state taking the lions share of said labor's earnings in taxation?

Where people can speak their mind or tell a joke without fear of being arrested in the night? Where they can protect themselves if neccessary? Where they can dream big, and with elbow grease and a bit of luck, make it happen? Where they are free to risk it all, as long as they are prepared to lose whatever is risked? Where the state understands it is a servant of the people, and not the other way around?

Where individualism is regarded as a virtue, because you are you and not your skin color, or ethnicity, or gender? Where the people will cross a great ocean to fight and destroy evil fascistic leaders if neccessary? That is... you want to make America great again? And have it serve as a shining beacon to the world as to what liberty and hard work can accomplish?

Sounds great. Sign me up.
Man, the level of unrealistic dreaming and not learning from history in this post is almost at the level of modern communists
 

MrRogers

Member
Feb 25, 2018
171
252
225
I used to be prog, left leaning. I've changed into a Civic nationalist. Politics like anything mostly comes down to self interest. All I saw from leftists and neoliberals from at least 2010 (in reality its been 50-60 years, its just out in the open now) is pure hatred for my race, gender, religion and sexuality. So fk em', they're ideology does not allow redemption of my kind, and my interest now is strictly survival for me and likeminded people in whatever clown world that they are creating and have planned. Its only going to get worse in the years ahead.

1984/A brave new world/Fahrenheit 451 were always thought as cautionary tales, the neoliberal totalitarian puritans use em' as instruction manuals.
 
Last edited: