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It's time to admit, both MS and Sony management suck

BlackM1st

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Apr 26, 2019
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World in 2020 suck. We live in the new world of less quality and lowered quantity too. It didn't started yesterday, but boy do 2020 escalated world's problems.

People become poorer and new trend of "smart consumerism" and "eco friendly" pushing companies all over the world for simplicity, less innovation and more safer approach to investing money in the new development.

Sony and MS is greedy, yeah, but people also become poorer and more careful about their spending habits. Keep it in mind ppl.
 
Feb 18, 2013
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World in 2020 suck. We live in the new world of less quality and lowered quantity too. It didn't started yesterday, but boy do 2020 escalated world's problems.

People become poorer and new trend of "smart consumerism" and "eco friendly" pushing companies all over the world for simplicity, less innovation and more safer approach to investing money in the new development.

Sony and MS is greedy, yeah, but people also become poorer and more careful about their spending habits. Keep it in mind ppl.
Good post

On a minuscule note, the majority of movie and game trailers having that same “booooommmhmmmm” transition sound effect.

Are all the trailers made in one particular studio, talk about copy and paste! Jarring as fuck.
 
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thelastword

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They are in it to make profit and stay alive in the market OP. Sony gave a huge break on the hardware, they are trying to recoup in software......
 

makaveli60

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They are in it to make profit and stay alive in the market OP. Sony gave a huge break on the hardware, they are trying to recoup in software......
But then be sincere, don't deceive your fans and consumers. If you go up with the prices at least provide real nextgen games to mitigate the effect. Show us the UI and BC, etc. This was a shitshow, the current management is a lying lame brigade who are nothing like the team at PS4's launch was. And this especially hurts as this was my last hope about gaming after MS's bullshit.
 
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makaveli60

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Threads on here from PC gamers with problems regarding their PC's and certain games?, i dont remember seeing one on here. Actually i do, for Horizon ZD, but that was to do with the crappy port, not acttual PC problems.
Orta Orta and you know this is what I really hate about pc gamers generally. This constant denial about the negatives of the platform. You somehow always forget and don't see the bad side. I know what both of you say isn't true. I was a pc gamer in the past, and believe me, I'm very far from a computer illiterate person. Actually, I was the one who always helped everyone in my social web as they always came to me, knowing that I was very knowledgeable about computers. This is not for bragging, just to show that I know what I know and see what I see, and what you state is just not true generally. Perhaps you don't have these problems, I cannot know that, but there are infinite numbers of different pc builds exist and not every one of them behave the same way.
 
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sinnergy

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After today it seems Sony sucks a bit more to be honest .
At least Phil laid it all out almost 2 years ago.
 

dvdvideo

Report me for SonyGAF. SonyBots, fanboys > 04/27
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Well ms should put together a short 10 minute reel of various clips from next gen games, and end it with $399 and $199 price points. It doesn't even matter if they are good games as long as the gamee look great graphically. Doesnt even matter if they are close to finished.

How hard could it be to reach out to ea, take 2, ubisoft, etc and thier own studios for 60 seconds of real time footage?
 
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Kagey K

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Dec 18, 2013
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MS was honest and laid out their plans. I know everyone was tired of it and said Phil shut up, but he was very clear about where he was going.

Jim in the other hand said very little and straight up tried to PR his way out of it after the fact.

There is certainly one that sucks worse on this day.
 

YeulEmeralda

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Buying things for full price at launch is a sucker's game anyway.
Absolutely, buying console at launch is stupid but neogaf is the hardcore of the hardcore.

I'll get a PS5 in 3 years when it has games. Probably at €399 by then too.
 

makaveli60

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Nextgen won't start for another couple of years at best. This was the thing that kept me hope in this shit year, but no, they lie into our faces. Nice job.
 

dvdvideo

Report me for SonyGAF. SonyBots, fanboys > 04/27
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Absolutely, buying console at launch is stupid but neogaf is the hardcore of the hardcore.

I'll get a PS5 in 3 years when it has games. Probably at €399 by then too.
I disagree, generally you pay $100 or a little bit more than a year or 2 later, but in the meantime you get the benefit of the latest machine to use. If they last 7 years, and its $399, thats less than $60 a year in cost. Plus I ussually even recoup some of that investment by selling at end of cycle.
 
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karasu

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lol the denial is so real :messenger_grinning_sweat:
Man, I saw Demon's Souls, Devil May Cry V Special Edition, and Miles Morales. Literally my favorite properties in gaming. I am sold. That stuff didn't move you? Ok. I'm not trying to convince you. But I'm not in denial of shit. We simply have different interests.
 
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#Phonepunk#

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I’m sorry hahah game companies are greedy hahaha oh you poor victim you who bought a luxury entertainment product
 

FireFistAce

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It's ridiculous that they would even entertain the idea of increasing the price.

These better be some damn good games, if they are going to charge $70+ for each one.
Well, vote with your wallet then. The market will dictate the price of the upcoming games.
 

dvdvideo

Report me for SonyGAF. SonyBots, fanboys > 04/27
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Man, I saw Demon's Souls, Devil May Cry V Special Edition, and Miles Morales. Literally my favorite properties in gaming. I am sold. That stuff didn't move you? Ok. I'm not trying to convince you. But I'm not in denial of shit. We simply have different interests.
Demon souls looked cool, but no rush. Devil May Cry have no interest in. Miles is an add on to a PS4 game.......it's ok.
 
Oct 26, 2018
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After today there is no question anymore, both compnies suck hard time. They are run by greedy corporate fucks and they are not in the same ballpark as they were in 2005 (Microsoft) and 2013 (Sony). They are bullshitting their fanbases, literally lie, and info starve them then shit in their mouths when they give any info. Fuck both managements, bring back the old. If I didn't hate PC gaming now would be the time for me to join the master race.
No surprise really. Money talks.

It's not even an external only thing with customers. It happens internally too.

I've always worked at big corporations and the junk you see internally can be stupid too. Here's one:

Survey results
You know all those marketing things about 9/10 people say our product is awesome!

Guess what? It's not necessarily a lie. But reworked a million times. Big companies hire marketing firms to do survey results. It takes a while and isn't cheap. But what they do is have a giant list of questions and cherry pick the good ones. So when the marketing department tells everyone internally that focus groups say the new items we are showing you are already awesome and everyone in the office should get amped up, all they did was show you the 5 questions the product scored high on and junked the other 15 questions that got meh focus group scores.

That's why when it comes to surveys the results shown can differ a lot. Some products will be shown saying customers see it as good value, but another product ignores those results because it probably got shit scores on the value/cost side. One product will say customers think it looks great, but then another product has no survey results mentioning looks.

All cherry picked BS.

Product changes
Marketing department shows sample products all year about new items coming out soon. All you sales reps go pitch it to your buyers. Then suddenly a new final sample comes in and it's different. The shape is different, the colours different, the plastic shell feels cheaper. Then what happens is the sales team has to reshow it to their buyer, OR if it's too late just ship it and hope the guy doesn't notice since he has 1000s of other products to mull over. The customer doesn't care because he's never seen a prototype/sample before.
 
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Zefah

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Yeah, I gotta say, I don't like the vibe I'm getting from either company this generation.
 

makaveli60

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In my country, Demon's Souls remake costs 50% more than a PS4 game costs currently. What the fuck?
 

jakinov

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A couple of posts above I mentioned I remember the Xbox 360 gen launch. Compare that to this. Now I know that was a very different time and a lot has changed since then, but still, I expected fully nextgen games that take full advantage of PS5, after they promised it even. Then the 80 euro price for these crossgen games etc.
Like you said it's a different time. Games take way longer to make and we're far past the point where when you want more you actually have to put in the work; Whereas before you hit the ceiling of what you can want to do pretty quickly. There's no evidence that they didn't do the best game that they planned to make. As I mentioned in my other post, Spider-man was done in a very short period of time and there likely no crazy improvement done that couldn't be simply reduced or disabled on a PS4 version. There's no reason to believe that Horizon and Spiderman weren't developer to use as much power and features as possible. In the past developers have said it takes a while before they get proficient of taking full advantage of the hardware. If Spiderman doesn't need instant loading or to load a shit ton of assets on the fly or ray tracing to be playable, again why can't it come to PS4 too?
 

makaveli60

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Like you said it's a different time. Games take way longer to make and we're far past the point where when you want more you actually have to put in the work; Whereas before you hit the ceiling of what you can want to do pretty quickly. There's no evidence that they didn't do the best game that they planned to make. As I mentioned in my other post, Spider-man was done in a very short period of time and there likely no crazy improvement done that couldn't be simply reduced or disabled on a PS4 version. There's no reason to believe that Horizon and Spiderman weren't developer to use as much power and features as possible. In the past developers have said it takes a while before they get proficient of taking full advantage of the hardware. If Spiderman doesn't need instant loading or to load a shit ton of assets on the fly or ray tracing to be playable, again why can't it come to PS4 too?
In this case, my problem is with Sony lying. If they said from the beginning that it's a crossgen game then ok, I understand as it indeed is. It's that they enjoyed being celebrated as the saviour for nextgen yet they pull a stunt like this in a blogpost hidden from the large audience. They are scummy. What made me angry was that even Horizon 2, a game that is coming who knows when (sometime in 2021, if no delays) will still come to PS4. Granted, I would look the other way if they did not also increase the price insanely for the games. Demon's Souls (which BTW doens't look anything exceptional, and was overhyped/teased by Bluepoint like it's the second coming, it's really a remake of a PS3 game that could also run on PS4 in lower resolution) will cost 50% (!) more than a PS4 game in my country. This is insane. And we are a relatively poor country. I will still buy the PS5 as it's still my best choice, but that doesn't make these things right at all.
 

EverydayBeast

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Communication isn’t powerful when your games are the most important aspect, nobody is looking at the N64 and saying “Good games but Nintendo’s management team didn’t communicate well” the more Sony recieves backlash the more I want a Ps5.
 

makaveli60

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Communication isn’t powerful when your games are the most important aspect, nobody is looking at the N64 and saying “Good games but Nintendo’s management team didn’t communicate well” the more Sony recieves backlash the more I want a Ps5.
It's not just the communication though, but also their actions.
 

jakinov

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Nov 19, 2008
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In this case, my problem is with Sony lying. If they said from the beginning that it's a crossgen game then ok, I understand as it indeed is. It's that they enjoyed being celebrated as the saviour for nextgen yet they pull a stunt like this in a blogpost hidden from the large audience. They are scummy. What made me angry was that even Horizon 2, a game that is coming who knows when (sometime in 2021, if no delays) will still come to PS4. Granted, I would look the other way if they did not also increase the price insanely for the games. Demon's Souls (which BTW doens't look anything exceptional, and was overhyped/teased by Bluepoint like it's the second coming, it's really a remake of a PS3 game that could also run on PS4 in lower resolution) will cost 50% (!) more than a PS4 game in my country. This is insane. And we are a relatively poor country. I will still buy the PS5 as it's still my best choice, but that doesn't make these things right at all.
Did they lie? How do you know they didn't decide on this recently. Unless they intentionally deceive or they inconvenience you why does it matter that they change their mind? I don't think they were trying to be a savior for next-gen. They just have a business interest in not mentioning the PS4 versions in a PS5 promotional event. They probably realized they could release Horizon on PS4 too. Not every game is coming to PS4. Only a select few, again if they know it's going to work I don't think it's scummy to release it on the PS4. I think it's scummy to arbitrarily say, no we want you to buy a new console in order to play this game when we could have ported in with minimal effort.

I can't speak for pricing because my country didn't increase insanely and I don't think it did in their primary market either.
 

makaveli60

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Did they lie? How do you know they didn't decide on this recently. Unless they intentionally deceive or they inconvenience you why does it matter that they change their mind? I don't think they were trying to be a savior for next-gen. They just have a business interest in not mentioning the PS4 versions in a PS5 promotional event. They probably realized they could release Horizon on PS4 too. Not every game is coming to PS4. Only a select few, again if they know it's going to work I don't think it's scummy to release it on the PS4. I think it's scummy to arbitrarily say, no we want you to buy a new console in order to play this game when we could have ported in with minimal effort.

I can't speak for pricing because my country didn't increase insanely and I don't think it did in their primary market either.
Then communicate clearly. They didn't give a shit for months and were enjoying the praise they got from fans. Don't tell me this is the same company as they were in 2013. They were always interacting with the community and there were no such issues. My initial argument still stands, the current management sucks. The previous one could have come up with the same decisions while communicating sincerely and would still be praised. At least they could have mitigated the shitstorm by demoing the SSD (comparing Spiderman on PS4 and PS5), explaining how backwards compatibility will work etc. But no, they are just incompetent compared to the previous management.
 
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jakinov

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Then communicate clearly. They didn't give a shit for months and were enjoying the praise they got from fans. Don't tell me this is the same company as they were in 2013. They were always interacting with the community and there were no such issues. My initial argument still stands, the current management sucks. The previous one could have come up with the same decisions while communicating sincerely and would still be praised. At least they could have mitigated the shitstorm by demoing the SSD (comparing Spiderman on PS4 and PS5), explaining how backwards compatibility will work etc. But no, they are just incompetent compared to the previous management.
It was pretty clear though...I just don't think you like the message. I don't see much of a difference now back then and now. it's same old blog + media events + random interviews with press like always. A lot of the people who seem mad seem like they mostly mad because they've been talking shit for months about Xbox cross-gen support and now they look silly. Again no evidence the decision happened much earlier or that the game is suffering from a PS4 release.

I think their current management is fantastic. They've really turned things around since the PS3 days.

Also, I don't think that kind of demo is really necessary. You can get a non next-gen version for PS4 too. Just like the other 20 games doing the same and hundreds in the past.
 
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makaveli60

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It was pretty clear though...I just don't think you like the message. I don't see much of a difference now back then and now. it's same old blog + media events + random interviews with press like always. A lot of the people who seem mad seem like they mostly mad because they've been talking shit for months about Xbox cross-gen support and now they look silly. Again no evidence the decision happened much earlier or that the game is suffering from a PS4 release.

I think their current management is fantastic. They've really turned things around since the PS3 days.

Also, I don't think that kind of demo is really necessary. You can get a non next-gen version for PS4 too. Just like the other 20 games doing the same and hundreds in the past.
But that's the thing. This is an entirely different management than the one that turned around the company during the PS3 days. Those are the ones I'm missing. They were all let go in the last couple of years. This is arrogant Sony again. Though IMO even worse. At least they had Kaz Hirai.
As I said, all of these decisions could have been handled better if they communicated and interacted with the community sincerely, as the previous management did. Even the 80 € thing. Show us why we pay that much, compare lastgen and nextgen, show us the seamless loading, demo the benefits of the SSD in games. But no, here 80 €, eat it.
 

jakinov

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But that's the thing. This is an entirely different management than the one that turned around the company during the PS3 days. Those are the ones I'm missing. They were all let go in the last couple of years. This is arrogant Sony again. Though IMO even worse. At least they had Kaz Hirai.
As I said, all of these decisions could have been handled better if they communicated and interacted with the community sincerely, as the previous management did. Even the 80 € thing. Show us why we pay that much, compare lastgen and nextgen, show us the seamless loading, demo the benefits of the SSD in games. But no, here 80 €, eat it.
I was talking about all the stuff they've done this generation compared the PS3. The management isn't completely different lower level execs moved up to be higher level execs. Some people still the same. But whatever they did during the PS4 days and shortly before has been great for the company. Sony was never as nice as everyone made them out to be. I haven't really seen much arrogance in the present day Sony at least not at the levels during the PS3.

I don't think there's anything they really needed to communicate. Spiderman was originally for PS5 now it's for PS4 too. I don't think they need to do that comparison that you want them to do and if they were going to I would argue it'd make more sense near when you can actual buy the product.
 

Tomeru

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MS: We'll be putting a lot of our games in XB1 so everybody can enjoy it.
Sony: We won't be doing that.
:afewmomentslater:
Sony: Okay, we will, we lied.

"Both of them suck right now."

At least MS was honest about it from the start.
Sony didnt say that... I mean, I get being upset is trendy, but being upset over something that never really happened is, like, idiotic. No?