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Its Time To Be Honest About Next Gen Multiplatform Games

Sep 22, 2020
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in 3rd party games there won´t be much difference, because no dev/publisher will screw one side over the other with having a substantial better version of the game (edit: without at least some compensation or a cooperation like valhalla for example, which as was stated should have native 4k compared to the dynamic 4k on the ps5 but that remains to be seen or has it been already changed/clarified/anything? Ubi communication is shite those days).

And although the DualSense and the Audio Engine are getting praised i wonder if that will really be something substantial oder just a Gimmick (Valhalla weirdly won´t have Haptic feedback support even though crunch, visceral combat seems to be a focal point of their pr). Because do you remember the great lightbar, touchpad and speaker implementation in countless (3rd party) games with the DS4? Yeah, me neither. Actually the best (and only, to be fair) use that comes to my mind spntaneous might even be lego city undercover (which is a criminally underrated 3rd person open world game, but that is another topic).
 
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Krisprolls

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OP is a lot too rational, must be new on NeoGAF. You're right but I hope you took your flame shield and helmet with you.

You're dealing with desperate people. Grammar warriors fighting to see a difference between "4k 60" vs "4k and 60", Ubi themselves even had to step up to stop the madness and tell them both versions of every game are the same, so don't expect a calm debate.

Something tells me things will get more peaceful after a few comparison videos though.

Good luck.
 
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RoadHazard

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Good analysis, and I agree 100%. The visual/performance differences will be negligible (if there are any at all - PS5 does have advantages due to its faster GPU even though it's behind in pure TF numbers), and beyond that the PS5 brings more exciting innovations that are sure to improve immersion.
 

RoadHazard

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in 3rd party games there won´t be much difference, because no dev/publisher will screw one side over the other with having a substantial better version of the game (edit: without at least some compensation or a cooperation like valhalla for example, which as stated should have native 4k compared to the dynamic 4k on the ps5 but that remains to be seen).

And although the DualSense and the Audio Engine are getting praised i wonder if that will really be something substantial oder just a Gimmick (Valhalla weirdly won´t have Haptic feedback support even though crunch, visceral combat seems to be a focal point of their pr). Because do you remember the great lightbar, touchpad and speaker implementation in countless (3rd party) games with the DS4? Yeah, me neither. Actually the best (and only, to be fair) use that comes to my mind spntaneous might even be lego city undercover (which is a criminally underrated 3rd person open world game, but that is another topic).

The difference is that so far there seems to be massive 3rd party support for the new PS5 features. And 3D audio is absolutely no "gimmick", unless you also think surround sound is and we should just go back to stereo or mono audio.
 
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scalman

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you mean PC and PS5 games? because there is not other games out there and wont be , all xbox games will be on pc. so pc and ps5
 
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iJudged

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Look, I like Sony. I really do.

In fact, I preordered the PS5 and am insanely hyped to play Demon's Souls next week with the Pulse 3D Audio Headset.

... But this post is pretty biased. It would make for a stronger, more objective argument to compare the feature sets between the two consoles and not just what PS5 has that XSX doesn't.

Off the top of my head, here are some things that XSX has that PS5 doesn't and it doesn't stop at just quick resume:
  • Quick Resume - Don't really need to explain this...
  • Auto HDR - Make all those colors pop in games that didn't support HDR.
  • Huge BC library - How many times am I going to have to buy Shadow of the Colossus, Sony? Or any other game locked in the pre-PS4 days for that matter...
  • Hardware support for ML - Microsoft might have their own version of DLSS up their sleeves. That could be huge game changer in regards to performance and that's just one application of ML. Sony first-party exclusives have had a visual fidelity advantage by targeting lower resolutions and then using checkerboard rendering to upscale to 4K, but that advantage won't be around for long.
  • Game Pass - You really can't argue with the value proposition here.
  • Beefier GPU - More stable framerate, resolution (assuming dynamic), etc. and possibly better RT performance
  • First-party storage expansion - I don't have to worry if my third-party SSD is good enough/vetted by Sony.
  • Plays nicely with PC - More people to play with online and no headaches with game saves
  • Dolby Atmos support - While you need the necessary hardware to use it, it could possibly be better or on-par with Tempest
  • Bethesda exclusivity - If I didn't already have a gaming PC better than XSX, this alone would make me want to preorder.
I like to think that Microsoft has better hardware, but Sony has better engineers.

thnx for doing this, when someone is a flaminfanboi, sometimes you have to draw it for them
 
Sep 22, 2020
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The difference is that so far there seems to be massive 3rd party support for the new PS5 features. And 3D audio is absolutely no "gimmick", unless you also think surround sound is and we should just go back to stereo or mono audio.

I´m not playing with headphones and to be honest i don´t care too much about the sound, so take my opinion on it with a pinch of salt. I just take what comes out of the tv.

When it comes to the general features, there is too few games in the first couple of months to really say if the support is massive or not. Because what is in the end is not always what seems to be. If after a couple of months there will be no drastically shortage of battery life and great implementation of the games (that goes further than just rumble, but makes use of the tech) with the haptic feedback and it becomes a stable and isn´t a gimmick: great. If devs don´t bother implementing it (it costs extra time in development after all), it eats up battery time and besides first party games and a few others no games make use of it and people turn it off or scale it down like the light bars to save battery: then its a gimmick.
 

RoadHazard

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I´m not playing with headphones and to be honest i don´t care too much about the sound, so take my opinion on it with a pinch of salt. I just take what comes out of the tv.

When it comes to the general features, there is too few games in the first couple of months to really say if the support is massive or not. Because what is in the end is not always what seems to be. If after a couple of months there will be no drastically shortage of battery life and great implementation of the games (that goes further than just rumble, but makes use of the tech) with the haptic feedback and it becomes a stable and isn´t a gimmick: great. If devs don´t bother implementing it (it costs extra time in development after all), it eats up battery time and besides first party games and a few others no games make use of it and people turn it off or scale it down like the light bars to save battery: then its a gimmick.

Maybe you should give caring about audio a go. It's something you don't really miss until you have experienced it, but surround/3D audio increases immersion massively. And with PS5 you will get that with regular headphones.
 

Krisprolls

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Look, I like Sony. I really do.

In fact, I preordered the PS5 and am insanely hyped to play Demon's Souls next week with the Pulse 3D Audio Headset.

... But this post is pretty biased. It would make for a stronger, more objective argument to compare the feature sets between the two consoles and not just what PS5 has that XSX doesn't.

Off the top of my head, here are some things that XSX has that PS5 doesn't and it doesn't stop at just quick resume:
  • Quick Resume - Don't really need to explain this...
  • Auto HDR - Make all those colors pop in games that didn't support HDR.
  • Huge BC library - How many times am I going to have to buy Shadow of the Colossus, Sony? Or any other game locked in the pre-PS4 days for that matter...
  • Hardware support for ML - Microsoft might have their own version of DLSS up their sleeves. That could be huge game changer in regards to performance and that's just one application of ML. Sony first-party exclusives have had a visual fidelity advantage by targeting lower resolutions and then using checkerboard rendering to upscale to 4K, but that advantage won't be around for long.
  • Game Pass - You really can't argue with the value proposition here.
  • Beefier GPU - More stable framerate, resolution (assuming dynamic), etc. and possibly better RT performance
  • First-party storage expansion - I don't have to worry if my third-party SSD is good enough/vetted by Sony.
  • Plays nicely with PC - More people to play with online and no headaches with game saves
  • Dolby Atmos support - While you need the necessary hardware to use it, it could possibly be better or on-par with Tempest
  • Bethesda exclusivity - If I didn't already have a gaming PC better than XSX, this alone would make me want to preorder.
I like to think that Microsoft has better hardware, but Sony has better engineers.

I don't know, nothing outside Gamepass looks very convincing to me here :

* Quick resume : probably on PS5 too, but games are starting in like 2 sec anyway so it's a moot point
* Auto HDR for old games : a bit of a gimmick, you can't make good HDR automatically, everything has to be chosen case by case. Everything will look either too bright or too dark in auto HDR.
* Huge BC library : not really, from PS4 days old games are available on PS5 too, and major Xbox exclusives are from Xbox 360 era, so it's hardly a big thing, they're old now. Great Sony games of the past are available on PS Now or on your older console. Colossus is a remake by the way, not a remaster, so it's logical you have to buy it again.
* ML upscaling : we don't know, may be available on both, it's just an upscaling technique, not a revolution (see watch dogs legion perf thread, it doesn't always looks great anyway)
* Gamepass : good, but available on PC too. I subscribed for $1 but you won't get many great AAA on it, simply because it fits cheap games and microtransactions better (sub price would need to be a lot higher otherwise). Price will probably increase too, it's just not very sustainable at that price in my opinion. I prefer chosing the game I play anyway. And playing mostly the biggest games. They're rarely on gamepass.
* GPU : both are roughly on par, PS5 will have more customization, MS has to make their games run on every PC too, which is a major block to optimize it on Xbox. More abstraction on xbox with Direct X, more customization on single hardware PS5. Should be roughly a wash.
* storage : non proprietary on PS5 (and twice as fast), which will be the best option on the long run. Price will drop, but not for XSX proprietary storage. Tons of custom I/O hardware and cache on PS5.
* playing with PC : no thanks, facing mouse players with a pad or the tons of online PC cheaters doesn't sound great
* Dolby Atmos : factually inferior to Tempest, which may adapt 3D sound to your ear profile, which Atmos won't do. Less sound sources on Atmos too according to Sony (Dolby says this part is wrong, wouldn't make it on par anyway).
* Bethesda : probably no Elder Scrolls this gen according to latest reports. Todd Howard doesn't think big games will be exclusive to Xbox anyway. (I have a PC if needed by the way, like a lot of PS5 gamers) Which makes sense, because it would be near impossible paying for big budget games only with gamepass subs revenue (which is why you don't see Sony release a competitor to Gamepass, like they said themselves recently).

So Gamepass is the main reason to go XSX in my opinion, but it's available on my PC and we probably shouldn't expect tons of AAA games on it (unless price increases substantially). On the other side, we've got off the top of my head :

* more and better launch games
* far better AAA exclusives for years, including probably multiple future games of the year
* revolutionary haptics praised by everybody (so better controller apparently)
* adaptive triggers praised by everybody
* better 3D sound with Tempest
* a lot faster SSD storage (twice as fast), which means shorter load times and potentially more detailed in game streamed textures and assets in future games
* VR (not available on Xbox)
* the above points mean that PS5 will also have the best version of every multiplatform games : identical or close in fps / res, and superior for all the rest like haptics, sound, VR.

Not a very hard choice at all. At least in my opinion.
 
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Sep 22, 2020
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Maybe you should give caring about audio a go. It's something you don't really miss until you have experienced it, but surround/3D audio increases immersion massively. And with PS5 you will get that with regular headphones.

If it will make a difference out of the bat with TV Speaker i´ll gladly take it. Headphones as said, i can´t play with them on. Tried it couple times across the last decades, not mine, just something about it that does not feel right for me.
 
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Stuart360

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I doubt many of the cross gen games are pushing either console that hard. Give it 2 years., when all the cross gen shite dwindles down, and we start getting 'proper' next gen multiplatform games, and then you may see some sizeable differences.
Plus just because both consoles are targeting the same targets, it doesnt mean there cant be differences. One may have higher settings, one may hit a locked 60fps, while the other has drops into the 50's, both may target dynamic 4k while one gets much closer to 4k than the other, etc.
 
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iHaunter

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This thread sounds like a PS5 marketing campaign.

We don't know if that GPU advantage will be a reality or not. Certainly won't tell this year.
A lot of it is common sense. What's the FLOP difference? 1.4 or something? That's less power than PS4. What kind of difference is that going to make? A game isn't suddenly going to be 4k/60 instead of 4k/30 because of that. It might help with FPS stability sure, but that matters so little.
 

Tqaulity

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Tqaulity Tqaulity post reads like a someone trying to justify their purchase of a weaker console. It's fine Tqaulity Tqaulity , enjoy the PS5. You shouldn't need ANYONE's validation to enjoy anything. It's gonna be a stellar system with tons of fun shit to play. Everything else is just noise.

LoL! For the record I don’t need to justify my console. I’ll have both as part of my work anyway. That doesn’t affect my ability to observe that PS5 is bringing more to the table to enhance multiplats.

It’s a bit frustrating to see so many folks not paying attention to arguably more meaning benefits that Sony is bringing because they are solely focused on theoretical specs with nothing tangible to support it.
 

EtherMagic

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Assassins Creed: Valhalla is Native 4K on Series X and Upscaled 4K on PS5 dude, Ubisoft confirmed this. The PS5 SSD can’t help against a more powerful GPU and higher memory bandwith in the Series X. This will be a continuing trend going forward this gen whether people want to admit it or not.



“After being asked for clarification, Ubisoft compounded the situation with a statement to DualShockers. Ubisoft delivered a message confirming that "Assassin's Creed Valhalla runs at 4K at 60 fps on PS5 (upscaled 4K)." The key words being "upscaled 4K" in that statement, rather than native 4K. In other words, the PS5 version of Assassin's Creed Valhalla is confirmed to have upscaled 4K at 60fps, while the Xbox Series X version of the game is implied to be native 4K at 60fps.”


👊🏼
 
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Uncharted bunghole
Assassins Creed: Valhalla is Native 4K on Series X and Upscaled 4K on PS5 dude, Ubisoft confirmed this. The PS5 SSD can’t help against a more powerful GPU and higher memory bandwith in the Series X. This will be a continuing trend going forward this gen whether people want to admit it or not.



“After being asked for clarification, Ubisoft compounded the situation with a statement to DualShockers. Ubisoft delivered a message confirming that "Assassin's Creed Valhalla runs at 4K at 60 fps on PS5 (upscaled 4K)." The key words being "upscaled 4K" in that statement, rather than native 4K. In other words, the PS5 version of Assassin's Creed Valhalla is confirmed to have upscaled 4K at 60fps, while the Xbox Series X version of the game is implied to be native 4K at 60fps.”


👊🏼

Not exactly an official confirmation though since they only asked about the Past version. I'm pretty sure Digital Foundry will clear this up. It could be another Watchdogs where the resolution is dynamic on both.
 

Tqaulity

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Yikes OP, just enjoy the PS5 you don't have to convince us lol
LoL true indeed. I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. Both consoles speak for themselves. But I have to admit that it did incite me to continue to see people post with things like "I'm getting a Series X for the multiplats and a PS5 for the exclusives only" or "I'm getting Cyberpunk on Series X since it will play better on there"! I've been seeing these posts all year long and I"ve held it for a while. But now that we actual game impressions and target specs for all 3rd party games, it's pretty clear that any purported performance advantage in the Series X is simply unsubstantiated (to date).

There simply is nothing that has been communicated or shown that indicates that Series X is superior in any tangible way. In other words, IF we did not know the specs in advance and all we had was the games we've been shown thus (Dirt 5, Halo Infinite, Gears 5 vs Spider Man MM, Demon's Souls, Rachet & Clank etc), I don't think people would be thinking the PS5 is inferior at all.
 
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I think the differences will be so minimal, that most regular people won't even notice.

That's my prediction.

This. In fact most regular people outside of our industries bubble can’t tell the difference between a game running at 720p/30fps and a game running at dynamic 4K/60fps.
 

Neat Machine

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This. In fact most regular people outside of our industries bubble can’t tell the difference between a game running at 720p/30fps and a game running at dynamic 4K/60fps.
I mean, you’re right but isn’t this more of an argument for Series S than for PS5?
 

dano1

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Look, I like Sony. I really do.

In fact, I preordered the PS5 and am insanely hyped to play Demon's Souls next week with the Pulse 3D Audio Headset.

... But this post is pretty biased. It would make for a stronger, more objective argument to compare the feature sets between the two consoles and not just what PS5 has that XSX doesn't.

Off the top of my head, here are some things that XSX has that PS5 doesn't and it doesn't stop at just quick resume:
  • Quick Resume - Don't really need to explain this...
  • Auto HDR - Make all those colors pop in games that didn't support HDR.
  • Huge BC library - How many times am I going to have to buy Shadow of the Colossus, Sony? Or any other game locked in the pre-PS4 days for that matter...
  • Hardware support for ML - Microsoft might have their own version of DLSS up their sleeves. That could be huge game changer in regards to performance and that's just one application of ML. Sony first-party exclusives have had a visual fidelity advantage by targeting lower resolutions and then using checkerboard rendering to upscale to 4K, but that advantage won't be around for long.
  • Game Pass - You really can't argue with the value proposition here.
  • Beefier GPU - More stable framerate, resolution (assuming dynamic), etc. and possibly better RT performance
  • First-party storage expansion - I don't have to worry if my third-party SSD is good enough/vetted by Sony.
  • Plays nicely with PC - More people to play with online and no headaches with game saves
  • Dolby Atmos support - While you need the necessary hardware to use it, it could possibly be better or on-par with Tempest
  • Bethesda exclusivity - If I didn't already have a gaming PC better than XSX, this alone would make me want to preorder.
I like to think that Microsoft has better hardware, but Sony has better engineers.

Your wrong on your first point so I stopped reading
 

assurdum

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I mean, even if the series X will be better doesn't means multiplat will suck on ps5. In theory difference shouldn't be that big.
 
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Neat Machine

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I find both consoles to be pretty compelling this generation, which kind of blows because I don't want to have to buy both. I'm getting the Xbox first though, Bethesda exclusivity means I won't be able to avoid it and I figure I might as well start using Gamepass now. Hopefully by the time Sony convinces me to buy a PS5 they'll have a nicer looking model out, and I'll be able to pick up some used games for less than $70.

I just wish there was some must-have game for either of them at launch. For now, I'll take Gamepass and a better looking console over the new controller. The fact that it's ~20% more powerful just helps it go down smoother. That power difference isn't going to just disappear, but I guess we'll have to wait and see how significant it ends up being.
 
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dano1

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When it was obvious that the PlayStation 4 had more TFLOPS than the XBox One and therefore was more powerful than an XBox One it was the most important thing in the World and even Sony and Mark Cerny used that to advertise the PlayStation 4.

Now TFLOPS, higher CU Count and higher Bandwidth doesn't count anymore according to PlayStation Fans and Mark Cerny.

I wonder why!!!

Unless the series X totally blows away the PS5 in the graphics department I’m sure you know it’s comes down to games and features.
 

Kssio_Aug

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Your wrong on your first point so I stopped reading
No he isnt. But thats a lot a matter of opinions, just as pretty much everything OP said. Each one is entitled to their own opinion, that should not be hard to understand.
 

Jigsaah

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First, let me say off the bat that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I am not trying to bash anyone for their choices. But now that we are just about a week away from both the PS5 and Xbox Series consoles being out and we have a wealth more information on what they will offer, we have to be honest about something:
1. The PS5 and Xbox Series X will be much closer in performance than most people were led to believe based on the "theoretical" specs.
2. The PS5 is bringing much more to the table to enhance the gameplay experience for multiplats

Regarding point #1, many have tried to emphasis for months now that theoretical specs such as TFLOPS are meaningless and do not necessarily map to real world performance. We're seeing that in action with Nvidia's new GPU line for example (RTX 3080 = 30FLOPS but is nowhere near 2x the ~14TFLOP RTX 2080Ti) and there is an endless number of examples that demonstrate this. Yet people continue to hold onto the notion that the Xbox Series X is the superior console compared to the PS5...with literally NO real evidence to support this. Yes, we are a week from launch and we now know the target specs for many multiplatform games coming to both consoles. EVERY game that has been announced for both consoles to this point are in fact targeting the same resolution and framerate. I repeat: heading up to launch, there isn't a single case of a multiplatform game that has a higher target spec with regards to resolution and framerate on the Xbox Series X than the PS5 counterpart! Go down the list: Call of Duty Cold War, Dirt 5, DMC V, Assassin' Creed Valhalla, MK11, Watch Dogs Legion etc and they see PS5 version matching the Xbox Series X versions in resolution and framerate. If there is a 120fps version coming to Series X, it's 120fps on PS5 as well (Rainbow Six Siege, Dirt 5). If it's less than native 4K on PS5 (i.e. "dynamic 4K"), guess what? It's also "dynamic 4K" on Series X as well (e.g. MK11, Watch Dogs Legion).

Now before folks start saying that the target specs are meaningless and we won't really see the differences until the systems are out and sites like Digital Foundry do their detailed analysis, let me point out 2 things to counter that:
  1. The target specs actually say a lot about the power difference between 2 systems. Let me remind you guys that it didn't take Digital Foundry analysis to know that when the PS4 pro and Xbox One X were released, most multiplatform games targeted native 4K on One X but only 1440p on PS4 Pro. It also didn't take a pixel counting tool to know that several major 3rd party games targeted lower resolutions on the Xbox One when compared to the PS4 version back in 2013 (i.e. Battlefield 4 900p vs 720p or ACIV 1080p vs 900p). The target specs are indicative of any major power gaps as well as the developer's ability to harness the power in a real game. Again, PS5 is matching all targets for Xbox Series X thus far.
  2. IF it really requires a Digital Foundry analysis to spot the differences between the 2, then my point is already made :). Most people will never notice minor resolution or framerate differences with their naked eye while playing a game (as we have seen already with many PS4/PS4 pro vs Xbox One/X games...and the difference in spec is larger in those cases). Nobody is playing a game on 2 screens with both console versions side by side and a zoomed in view with their face 1 foot away from the screen to spot differences. And in fact, even if those difference do exist at that level of detail the vast majority of gamers will not notice nor care.
Because of my points above, I would submit that any perf advantages when comparing multiplats between the two are effectively moot and irrelevant (at least for now). If you were trying to decide which console to play a game on based purely on technical performance (not including factors like controller preference, friends lists etc), then there is no basis to choose either platform over the other. In other words, both consoles will offer equally amazing experiences :messenger_beaming:.

However, that's not the full story. One console is offering a number of tangible advantages that will enhance all games including 3rd party multiplats and provide a competitive advantage over the competition. Yes, I am saying that the PS5 is bringing more to the table to allow for a superior overall experience when playing a game over the Xbox Series X. Let us count the ways:
  • PS5 SSD - is 2x faster than Xbox Series X. This should mean even faster loading times than the already fast Xbox Series X. If you like the speedy loading on Series X, then this should be a solid advantage for PS5
  • DualSense controller - offers so many unique features that again if a differentiator compared to Series X. I always said that the numerous features of the Dualsense will offer nice advantages for multiplats and now that we have heard the overwhelming positive impressions, it's clear that playing a game on PS5 will be a very different experience than playing on an Xbox due to the Dualsense. The haptic feedback and adaptive triggers appear to be genuine game changers and nearly all the 3rd party games at launch are supporting it
  • Tempest 3D audio engine - This is another genuine differentiator for PS5. While many have pointed out that the Xbox Series X does have some impressive dedicated hardware for audio as well, notice that Microsoft themselves have been virtually silent about it and that no developer or reviewer have even highlighted it. Meanwhile, Sony has pushed it nearly as much as the Dualsense as a key aspect to the next gen experience and as an audiophile myself I am stoked that we will see audio evolve as much as the visuals typically do in the next gen :messenger_beaming:. We've heard many developers discuss the tangible benefits of the PS5 audio engine and simply have that much dedicated audio hardware means that so many possibilities are now available from an audio design perspective. The fact that this tech is not limited to only those with specific and/or expensive hardware to hear the difference is crucial. All gamers with any headphone/TV/soundbar will be able to hear the advantages right off the bat. We are even now hearing how you can get ambisonic audio in 7.1 surround from any pair of headphones direct from the Dualsense controller due to Tempest! Amazing!
  • High Speed USB-C and USB-A ports - . This is something that many have glossed over but the PS5 has higher performing USB ports compared to the Xbox Series X. What does this mean? Well, when you have to store your games on that external HDD (due to the admittedly limited amount of storage), you can extract even more performance allowing for faster transfers of those games back onto the internal SSD on PS5. Yep this means shorter wait times for your games to transfer back and forth. Try to connect one of those external SSDs for example that promise 1-2GB/s speeds and see if you get anywhere near that speed on the Series X via USB.
  • Wifi 6 - this won't be beneficial to everyone but again PS5 is going a bit further by offering the more advanced and faster WIFI standard. Like the faster SSD, this has the potential to dramatically speed up download times for new content from the PS5 store as well as game patches etc (if you have the compatible network hardware).
  • PS5 UI Features - the PS5 UI allows for developers to take advantage of unique features that cannot be replicated on Xbox. The keys ones (that we know about) are the Activities and Guided Help. For some, these features will enhance the game by allowing for a more immediate and direct gameplay experience while removing frustration when playing certain parts of games.
  • PS5 Social Features - we now know that the PS5 allows for seamless party integration while playing your game even allowing for PIP views of friends games etc. Also, the PS5 takes the "share" concept further by proving a dedicated "create" button to produce more advanced videos and live stream complete with background removal (if you have the PS5 camera).

This is only what we know of now as there may be even a few more "differentiators" when it comes to the PS5 UI and feature set. However, I think my point is clear. Whether or not you personally value these additional features (you can't please everyone), it is a fact that PS5 is bringing many more tangible advantages to the table that collectively can make for a much more immersive and satisfying experience when playing games beyond just the visuals and frame rate. People's mileage may vary in how much benefit they see in each of these features but the point is that if I'm looking to decide where to play my next game between PS5 and Xbox Series X, there is a lot more to the PS5 experience than that on Xbox. In fact, other than the theoretical performance (which is effectively nullified at launch), the only unique feature that Xbox seems to have at this point is quick resume which is nice but it is highly likely PS5 has a similar feature as well (we'll find out on Nov 6th). Of course, many will prefer Xbox due to their familiarity, preference for controller, place where there friends are, gamepass and that is fine. I'm mainly talking more objectively regarding system features that gamers can take advantage of.

Again this isn't to bash the Xbox Series X console. It is undoubtedly powerful and has a lot of potential. But I have been dumbfounded when I still see so many people say that they are reserving multiplats for Xbox Series X over PS5. Really? Why? I really don't get that logic and I have not heard of any reason for that other than they expect it to have better performance. But again, everything we have seen thus far point to that not being the case anytime soon (except maybe very minor advantages not perceivable by most during gameplay). Meanwhile, PS5 is bringing so much more potentially game enhancing features to the table that given the choice, I can't see how one could not choose PS5 (again outside of personal preference which everyone is entitled to). Power is about much more than just resolution and framerate.

Would love to hear your thoughts and reasons for your preferences (we'll find out a lot more very soon :messenger_beaming:)!
I've been saying since before we knew the specs, that if ps4 pro and xbox one x can do any games at 4k 60, then it's gonna be the same for XSX and PS5. With that being the case, how can it be much different? I mean 4k 60 is the pinnacle right now outside of some titles that may do 4k 120 fps. So 12TF is more than 10.3 or whatever it is...but who cares if they both do games at 4k 60fps. At this point, even Native 4k is taking a back seat to this VRS and DLSS-like features on RDNA2, so people will start prefering DLSS games that look 4k and have room for higher framerates and raytracing.
 
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Maybe you should give caring about audio a go. It's something you don't really miss until you have experienced it, but surround/3D audio increases immersion massively. And with PS5 you will get that with regular headphones.
Xbox pumps up headphones.
LoL true indeed. I'm not trying to convince anybody of anything. Both consoles speak for themselves. But I have to admit that it did incite me to continue to see people post with things like "I'm getting a Series X for the multiplats and a PS5 for the exclusives only" or "I'm getting Cyberpunk on Series X since it will play better on there"! I've been seeing these posts all year long and I"ve held it for a while. But now that we actual game impressions and target specs for all 3rd party games, it's pretty clear that any purported performance advantage in the Series X is simply unsubstantiated (to date).

There simply is nothing that has been communicated or shown that indicates that Series X is superior in any tangible way. In other words, IF we did not know the specs in advance and all we had was the games we've been shown thus (Dirt 5, Halo Infinite, Gears 5 vs Spider Man MM, Demon's Souls, Rachet & Clank etc), I don't think people would be thinking the PS5 is inferior at all.
60fps, 60fps, 60fps
30fps, 30fps, 30fps
 

assurdum

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Assassins Creed: Valhalla is Native 4K on Series X and Upscaled 4K on PS5 dude, Ubisoft confirmed this. The PS5 SSD can’t help against a more powerful GPU and higher memory bandwith in the Series X. This will be a continuing trend going forward this gen whether people want to admit it or not.



“After being asked for clarification, Ubisoft compounded the situation with a statement to DualShockers. Ubisoft delivered a message confirming that "Assassin's Creed Valhalla runs at 4K at 60 fps on PS5 (upscaled 4K)." The key words being "upscaled 4K" in that statement, rather than native 4K. In other words, the PS5 version of Assassin's Creed Valhalla is confirmed to have upscaled 4K at 60fps, while the Xbox Series X version of the game is implied to be native 4K at 60fps.”


👊🏼
If 4k at 60 fps was easy achievable on series X compared the ps5, Gears 5, a first parties game, wouldn't be 1700p. Be careful before to expect a native 4k at 60 fps by Ubisoft. And in any case Ubisoft never said bolded 4k native but they talk of a vague 4k resolution and full 4k, as usual it's easy to play with the resolution terms. I wouldn't put the last DualShocker rumour has a reliable source by the way
 
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Rob_27

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Another pro Sony thread. No list of advantages for Xbox?

If the power difference was the other way around this post would be totally different.

That's my personal opinion.

But I might add I'm getting both consoles.
 
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Well for me all multiplats will be on SX.. While I'll get a PS5 down the road once an Uncharted and Persona or a redesign will get me to buy one. Both machines will get very good use in my house.
 

assurdum

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Another pro Sony thread. No list of advantages for Xbox?

If the power difference was the other way around this post would be totally different.

That's my personal opinion.

But I might add I'm getting both consoles.
Could be. But honestly I don't think the difference will be that noticeable.
 

dano1

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No he isnt. But thats a lot a matter of opinions, just as pretty much everything OP said. Each one is entitled to their own opinion, that should not be hard to understand.

There was a picture of using rest mode and it mentioned suspend your game. Kind of obvious.
 

Neat Machine

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There was a picture of using rest mode and it mentioned suspend your game. Kind of obvious.
Like the PS4 does currently? That's different from what the new Xbox is doing.

Another thing I've thought about, and it's totally speculative to be fair, is that it's probably a lot more likely for Xbox to update its UI and potentially release a new Elite controller with more haptic feedback this gen than it is for Sony to replicate Gamepass. If Sony did replicate Gamepass first, I'd probably just use the Xbox for Bethesda games and not much else.
 
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MrFunSocks

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Jesus, can you shill for Sony any harder? lol

Tempest 3D audio engine - This is another genuine differentiator for PS5. While many have pointed out that the Xbox Series X does have some impressive dedicated hardware for audio as well, notice that Microsoft themselves have been virtually silent about it and that no developer or reviewer have even highlighted it.

Because 3D audio isn't new to Xbox with the Series X lol. The Xbox One has had 3D audio for years. Developers don't need to shill for it on xbox because they've been releasing games with it for years.

The haptic feedback and adaptive triggers appear to be genuine game changers and nearly all the 3rd party games at launch are supporting it

Nothing about a different type of rumble is a genuine game changer.

Wifi 6 - this won't be beneficial to everyone but again PS5 is going a bit further by offering the more advanced and faster WIFI standard. Like the faster SSD, this has the potential to dramatically speed up download times for new content from the PS5 store as well as game patches etc (if you have the compatible network hardware).

Lol no it doesn't. Nobodies internet is maxing out Wifi 5.

the PS5 UI allows for developers to take advantage of unique features that cannot be replicated on Xbox.

Software features can't be replicated? Wouldn't this go the other way too though?

I hope you got paid for that post OP. Seriously, embarrassing.

Maybe you should give caring about audio a go. It's something you don't really miss until you have experienced it, but surround/3D audio increases immersion massively. And with PS5 you will get that with regular headphones.
lol you get 3D audio with headphones on the Xbox One.....

Guess you're another person that thinks that 3D audio is new to consoles. It's new to Sony consoles, not Xbox. Sony really knock it out of the park with their buzzword names that can make people believe Sony are the first to ever do something.
 
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dano1

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Like the PS4 does currently? That's different from what the new Xbox is doing.

Another thing I've thought about, and it's totally speculative to be fair, is that it's probably a lot more likely for Xbox to update its UI and potentially release a new Elite controller with more haptic feedback this gen than it is for Sony to replicate Gamepass.

Personally with how fast the ssds are now it really doesn’t matter to me but obviously a software patch away if it’s really wanted.
I hope they do I want all games to have those features!
I want both systems to succeed
That’s how we get awesome deals and sales!!
 

RoadHazard

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Jesus, can you shill for Sony any harder? lol



Because 3D audio isn't new to Xbox with the Series X lol. The Xbox One has had 3D audio for years. Developers don't need to shill for it on xbox because they've been releasing games with it for years.



Nothing about a different type of rumble is a genuine game changer.



Lol no it doesn't. Nobodies internet is maxing out Wifi 5.



Software features can't be replicated? Wouldn't this go the other way too though?

I hope you got paid for that post OP. Seriously, embarrassing.


lol you get 3D audio with headphones on the Xbox One.....

Guess you're another person that thinks that 3D audio is new to consoles. It's new to Sony consoles, not Xbox. Sony really knock it out of the park with their buzzword names that can make people believe Sony are the first to ever do something.

Source on that last part? Because it's factually incorrect. Xbox (any Xbox) has nothing like the 3D audio made possible by the Tempest engine on PS5.
 
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I mean, you’re right but isn’t this more of an argument for Series S than for PS5?

Its not an argument for anything other than the average Joe is mostly blind and clueless when it comes to the tech side of gaming.

For those customers, people mostly buy what their friends / families buy.
 

Hendrick's

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  • PS5 SSD
  • DualSense controller
  • Tempest 3D audio engine
  • High Speed USB-C and USB-A ports
  • Wifi 6
  • PS5 UI Features
  • PS5 Social Features
Most of these are matched closely enough by their competition, and none of these features will be utilized by 3rd party developers to their full potential. It simply won’t happen. Proof is evident in looking at every past generation.

The DualSense is awesome, but I have little faith that 3rd parties will do anything more than map their rumble profiles to them outside of a few edge cases.
 
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This year now ?

VFXVeteran VFXVeteran as MS says: wait until next year, you will see we have something great the next time around... We heard it too many times 🤣.
1. The PS5 and Xbox Series X will be much closer in performance than most people were led to believe based on the "theoretical" specs.
The theorical specs are so close that this was predictable, if they are any closer these consoles will be more of less identical except for the SSD and controller (the ps5 is so big you may need to buy a new house, but this is a different issue).

2. The PS5 is bringing much more to the table to enhance the gameplay experience for multiplats
Too early to tell...these things get a lot of attention at first,then it often vanish if there is no incentive to use these platform specific features.
 

MrFunSocks

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Source on that last part? Because it's factually incorrect. Xbox (any Xbox) has nothing like the 3D audio made possible by the Tempest engine on PS5.
You might want to read up on Dolby Atmos and Windows Sonic lol.

.

 

RoadHazard

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You might want to read up on Dolby Atmos and Windows Sonic lol.

.


I have not tried those, will check it out, but from my understanding it's still far from what Sony is doing. They have dedicated audio hardware equal to a full GPU CU for a reason.

And many developers (including 3rd party ones) are talking about Sony's 3D audio and how cool it is, but I haven't heard the same excitement for MS's solution.
 
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MrFunSocks

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I have not tried those, will check it out, but from my understanding it's still far from what Sony is doing. They have dedicated audio hardware equal to a full GPU CU for a reason.

And many developers (including 3rd party ones) are talking about Sony's 3D audio and how cool it is, but I haven't heard the same excitement for MS's solution.
Nah it's the same thing, your understanding of something that you didn't even know existed is unsurprisingly wrong. It's 3D audio. You haven't heard the same excitement for MS's solution because MS haven't been pushing it as revolutionary this generation because they've had it for years. Sony are the ones pushing it, giving it a fancy name like Tempest to try and hype people like yourself up for it, who in turn then spread stuff like you have done here - that it's amazing and MS can't match it. Tempest does nothing that Dolby Atmos and Windows Sonic can't do. Dolby specialize in this, I tend to think they know what they're doing a bit more than Sony.

You flat out said that what I said was "factually incorrect" when the truth is that you didn't even know the Xbox One already had 3D audio. Maybe do some research before trying to correct someone next time?
 
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Vasto

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You might want to read up on Dolby Atmos and Windows Sonic lol.

.





We also got DTS: X :messenger_winking:


 
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WildBoy

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First, let me say off the bat that everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I am not trying to bash anyone for their choices. But now that we are just about a week away from both the PS5 and Xbox Series consoles being out and we have a wealth more information on what they will offer, we have to be honest about something:
1. The PS5 and Xbox Series X will be much closer in performance than most people were led to believe based on the "theoretical" specs.
2. The PS5 is bringing much more to the table to enhance the gameplay experience for multiplats

Regarding point #1, many have tried to emphasis for months now that theoretical specs such as TFLOPS are meaningless and do not necessarily map to real world performance. We're seeing that in action with Nvidia's new GPU line for example (RTX 3080 = 30FLOPS but is nowhere near 2x the ~14TFLOP RTX 2080Ti) and there is an endless number of examples that demonstrate this. Yet people continue to hold onto the notion that the Xbox Series X is the superior console compared to the PS5...with literally NO real evidence to support this. Yes, we are a week from launch and we now know the target specs for many multiplatform games coming to both consoles. EVERY game that has been announced for both consoles to this point are in fact targeting the same resolution and framerate. I repeat: heading up to launch, there isn't a single case of a multiplatform game that has a higher target spec with regards to resolution and framerate on the Xbox Series X than the PS5 counterpart! Go down the list: Call of Duty Cold War, Dirt 5, DMC V, Assassin' Creed Valhalla, MK11, Watch Dogs Legion etc and they see PS5 version matching the Xbox Series X versions in resolution and framerate. If there is a 120fps version coming to Series X, it's 120fps on PS5 as well (Rainbow Six Siege, Dirt 5). If it's less than native 4K on PS5 (i.e. "dynamic 4K"), guess what? It's also "dynamic 4K" on Series X as well (e.g. MK11, Watch Dogs Legion).

Now before folks start saying that the target specs are meaningless and we won't really see the differences until the systems are out and sites like Digital Foundry do their detailed analysis, let me point out 2 things to counter that:
  1. The target specs actually say a lot about the power difference between 2 systems. Let me remind you guys that it didn't take Digital Foundry analysis to know that when the PS4 pro and Xbox One X were released, most multiplatform games targeted native 4K on One X but only 1440p on PS4 Pro. It also didn't take a pixel counting tool to know that several major 3rd party games targeted lower resolutions on the Xbox One when compared to the PS4 version back in 2013 (i.e. Battlefield 4 900p vs 720p or ACIV 1080p vs 900p). The target specs are indicative of any major power gaps as well as the developer's ability to harness the power in a real game. Again, PS5 is matching all targets for Xbox Series X thus far.
  2. IF it really requires a Digital Foundry analysis to spot the differences between the 2, then my point is already made :). Most people will never notice minor resolution or framerate differences with their naked eye while playing a game (as we have seen already with many PS4/PS4 pro vs Xbox One/X games...and the difference in spec is larger in those cases). Nobody is playing a game on 2 screens with both console versions side by side and a zoomed in view with their face 1 foot away from the screen to spot differences. And in fact, even if those difference do exist at that level of detail the vast majority of gamers will not notice nor care.
Because of my points above, I would submit that any perf advantages when comparing multiplats between the two are effectively moot and irrelevant (at least for now). If you were trying to decide which console to play a game on based purely on technical performance (not including factors like controller preference, friends lists etc), then there is no basis to choose either platform over the other. In other words, both consoles will offer equally amazing experiences :messenger_beaming:.

However, that's not the full story. One console is offering a number of tangible advantages that will enhance all games including 3rd party multiplats and provide a competitive advantage over the competition. Yes, I am saying that the PS5 is bringing more to the table to allow for a superior overall experience when playing a game over the Xbox Series X. Let us count the ways:
  • PS5 SSD - is 2x faster than Xbox Series X. This should mean even faster loading times than the already fast Xbox Series X. If you like the speedy loading on Series X, then this should be a solid advantage for PS5
  • DualSense controller - offers so many unique features that again if a differentiator compared to Series X. I always said that the numerous features of the Dualsense will offer nice advantages for multiplats and now that we have heard the overwhelming positive impressions, it's clear that playing a game on PS5 will be a very different experience than playing on an Xbox due to the Dualsense. The haptic feedback and adaptive triggers appear to be genuine game changers and nearly all the 3rd party games at launch are supporting it
  • Tempest 3D audio engine - This is another genuine differentiator for PS5. While many have pointed out that the Xbox Series X does have some impressive dedicated hardware for audio as well, notice that Microsoft themselves have been virtually silent about it and that no developer or reviewer have even highlighted it. Meanwhile, Sony has pushed it nearly as much as the Dualsense as a key aspect to the next gen experience and as an audiophile myself I am stoked that we will see audio evolve as much as the visuals typically do in the next gen :messenger_beaming:. We've heard many developers discuss the tangible benefits of the PS5 audio engine and simply have that much dedicated audio hardware means that so many possibilities are now available from an audio design perspective. The fact that this tech is not limited to only those with specific and/or expensive hardware to hear the difference is crucial. All gamers with any headphone/TV/soundbar will be able to hear the advantages right off the bat. We are even now hearing how you can get ambisonic audio in 7.1 surround from any pair of headphones direct from the Dualsense controller due to Tempest! Amazing!
  • High Speed USB-C and USB-A ports - . This is something that many have glossed over but the PS5 has higher performing USB ports compared to the Xbox Series X. What does this mean? Well, when you have to store your games on that external HDD (due to the admittedly limited amount of storage), you can extract even more performance allowing for faster transfers of those games back onto the internal SSD on PS5. Yep this means shorter wait times for your games to transfer back and forth. Try to connect one of those external SSDs for example that promise 1-2GB/s speeds and see if you get anywhere near that speed on the Series X via USB.
  • Wifi 6 - this won't be beneficial to everyone but again PS5 is going a bit further by offering the more advanced and faster WIFI standard. Like the faster SSD, this has the potential to dramatically speed up download times for new content from the PS5 store as well as game patches etc (if you have the compatible network hardware).
  • PS5 UI Features - the PS5 UI allows for developers to take advantage of unique features that cannot be replicated on Xbox. The keys ones (that we know about) are the Activities and Guided Help. For some, these features will enhance the game by allowing for a more immediate and direct gameplay experience while removing frustration when playing certain parts of games.
  • PS5 Social Features - we now know that the PS5 allows for seamless party integration while playing your game even allowing for PIP views of friends games etc. Also, the PS5 takes the "share" concept further by proving a dedicated "create" button to produce more advanced videos and live stream complete with background removal (if you have the PS5 camera).

This is only what we know of now as there may be even a few more "differentiators" when it comes to the PS5 UI and feature set. However, I think my point is clear. Whether or not you personally value these additional features (you can't please everyone), it is a fact that PS5 is bringing many more tangible advantages to the table that collectively can make for a much more immersive and satisfying experience when playing games beyond just the visuals and frame rate. People's mileage may vary in how much benefit they see in each of these features but the point is that if I'm looking to decide where to play my next game between PS5 and Xbox Series X, there is a lot more to the PS5 experience than that on Xbox. In fact, other than the theoretical performance (which is effectively nullified at launch), the only unique feature that Xbox seems to have at this point is quick resume which is nice but it is highly likely PS5 has a similar feature as well (we'll find out on Nov 6th). Of course, many will prefer Xbox due to their familiarity, preference for controller, place where there friends are, gamepass and that is fine. I'm mainly talking more objectively regarding system features that gamers can take advantage of.

Again this isn't to bash the Xbox Series X console. It is undoubtedly powerful and has a lot of potential. But I have been dumbfounded when I still see so many people say that they are reserving multiplats for Xbox Series X over PS5. Really? Why? I really don't get that logic and I have not heard of any reason for that other than they expect it to have better performance. But again, everything we have seen thus far point to that not being the case anytime soon (except maybe very minor advantages not perceivable by most during gameplay). Meanwhile, PS5 is bringing so much more potentially game enhancing features to the table that given the choice, I can't see how one could not choose PS5 (again outside of personal preference which everyone is entitled to). Power is about much more than just resolution and framerate.

Would love to hear your thoughts and reasons for your preferences (we'll find out a lot more very soon :messenger_beaming:)!

Sticks in the right place. There's your reason.
 
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Could be. But honestly I don't think the difference will be that noticeable.

From what I've seen people say.

Best case : 18% difference
Worst case: 50% difference

Then there's Dealers claim of 40-50 FPs extra for the XSX but I don't believe that at all.

Edit: The worst case was explained to me as the XSX using it's superior GPU combined with VRS and DirectML.
 
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anothertech

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The absolute truth is they'll both have pros and cons and they are so close in power and speed we will NEED DF to use their magic tools to tell the difference.

This gen will be glorious on all fronts.

Sony has a bit of a head start on hype with their games list, but MS has so much shit in the oven they will soon rain down games from the heavens in all their glory.

Believe me, we're in for a hell of a ride this gen and it's the good kind.

These two will keep each other on their toes all gen and that's the way it should be.

About dam time too.