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It's Time To Wake Up (The Covid Con)

GribbleGrunger

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Yes not believing CDC, WHO, all major government guidleines outside of Brazil/Iran who have bravely exposed the lies of Western Democracies is all definitely not a conspiracy theory. What is the purpose of the shutdowns? Why are masks being promoted? Are we willingly giving more clout to China and digital distribution companies? If it's a totalitarian power grab then why wouldn't Iran and Brazil presidents jump on this momentous occasion? If it's a play to destroy Western democracies then why would Russia follow suit?

There are no good answers cause you're in a loop of listening to "silenced" few professors while denying the work of professionals who have been treating this for years. So yeah, flat earth sounds about right for this level of paranoia especially since you move goalposts about Covid deaths.

Nobody is being silenced outside of loons who have no accreditation and "random people on the internet", CDC and WHO alone represent 1000s of doctors, 100s more are working on vaccines right now, nobody is screaming around about how it's all hoax and just go do their job to the best of their ability. Everything else is what it is: FUD.
Oh my lord. The level of ignorance some of you show is mind blowing. Carry on thinking the people calling this out are 'loons' if you want. There's nothing anyone can do for someone who just won't actually look.
 

GribbleGrunger

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No one has been treating COVID for years lol, unless you're admitting it's just the flu and therefore no lockdown is needed because we don't lockdown for flus. CDC and WHO did an about face on their stances and could do one again, lol, heck the CDC has admitted as much as 90% of people testing positive for COVID might not have it, that only 6% of COVID deaths DEFINITELY died of COVID.

Hey, is this a loon? Check his resume

None of them are loons. Most of them completely obliterate the credentials of these so called TV experts. I think it's time to give up on those denying something's wrong. You can't make them look and they'll just carry on pretending we're listening to 'loons'.
 

SF Kosmo

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I think there's some sunk cost fallacy, like we gave up so much for this shit and we want to make sure it wasn't for nothing. But I don't think it was. I think we flattened the curve enough to keep hospitals from getting overload and buy some time for treatment to improve and that saved lives.

And I think some areas should stay shut down because they're not over the curve yet, but like, the coasts? Yeah, it's time. A friend of mine in an inner city area said less than 20% of the first graders in her kid's class are attending class online a week in. These kids are being forgotten by the system. They need schools. But the governor is still keeping everything locked down.
 
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GribbleGrunger

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I think there's some sunk cost fallacy, like we gave up so much for this shit and we want to make sure it wasn't for nothing. But I don't think it was. I think we flattened the curve enough to keep hospitals from getting overload and buy some time for treatment to improve and that saved lives.

And I think some areas should stay shut down because they're not over the curve yet, but like, the coasts? Yeah, it's time. A friend of mine in an inner city area said less than 20% of first graders in her daughters class are attending class online a week in. These kids are being forgotten by the system. They need schools. But the governor is still keeping everything locked down.
There was no curve to flatten. Hospitals weren't overun and makeshift facilities set up to help hospitals cope didn't even get used. Nurses and doctors were making dance videos for God's sake. Every single measure taken early on was driven by a computer simulation. That simulation wasn't just proven wrong, it was proven to be criminally wrong.
 

Elcid

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I think covid is real. It's just a bitch virus, GREATLY exaggerated. I think masks are fucking retarded, as well as social distancing. Most people are asymptomatic, and a majority survive just fine. Respirators and medical negligence has led to the many deaths imo.
 
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If you ever wonder how much social distancing matters just remember nearly every country asks for a different spacing between people lol
 

SF Kosmo

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There was no curve to flatten. Hospitals weren't overun and makeshift facilities set up to help hospitals cope didn't even get used.
It came close, man, I know people who worked in those hospitals in NJ and NY and it was really bad, for a couple months, and they did have to shut down the cancer ward to accommodate all the people coming in, and pull all the nurses from other units in to care for the Covid patients. It's true that it didn't get to the point of needing all those "field" hospitals, but it absolutely would have if we didn't shut down.

There's a difference between saying "It worked," and "It wasn't needed."
 
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Elcid

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It came close, man, I know people who worked in those hospitals in NJ and NY and it was really bad, for a couple months, and they did have to shut down the cancer ward to accommodate all the people coming in. It's true that it didn't get to the point of needing all those "field" hospitals, but it absolutely would have if we didn't shut down.

There's a difference between saying "It worked," and "It wasn't needed."
Yeah there were a bunch of rumors being spread about a makeshift camp by my home. People talking about how it was overrun, X person knows this medical professional, and said this emergency hospital was setup. Blah blah. Bullshit. You drove past it and yeah they had pavilions and shit setup but guess what? They were COMPLETELY fucking empty. All the hospitals I know were deadzones too. Like 3-10 cars in the parking lots, a hundred times emptier than usual because everyone was afraid to go out.
 

Marlenus

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Again, in every one of the top 8 worst countries for deaths per million lockdowns were imposed, I'm pretty every one had a mask mandate, too, most of them definitely did. South Korea is different because they had great contact tracing.
Lockdowns came after large infection spikes to get it back under control. Masks, distancing and other strategies are there to keep the infection rate low which enables countries to open up the economy again.

In some places like South Korea the government was more on the ball and had mote effective strategies to prevent that initial spike meaning they could stick to masks, distancing etc to keep the infection rate low without needing to use lockdowns to bring the rate down.

As for how effective any of it has been and what the best strategies were. We will have to wait several years for the pandemic to be over and for the studies to be conducted.
 
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Lockdowns came after large infection spikes to get it back under control. Masks, distancing and other strategies are there to keep the infection rate low which enables countries to open up the economy again.

In some places like South Korea the government was more on the ball and had mote effective strategies to prevent that initial spike meaning they could stick to masks, distancing etc to keep the infection rate low without needing to use lockdowns to bring the rate down.

As for how effective any of it has been and what the best strategies were. We will have to wait several years for the pandemic to be over and for the studies to be conducted.
Uh... nope... most the countries with strict lockdowns did them as a pre-emptive measure, not after large infection spikes.
 
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Marlenus

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Uh... nope... most the countries with strict lockdowns did them as a pre-emptive measure, not after large infection spikes.
They did them on the upward trajectory but there is a delay between infection and detection so it took a few weeks post lockdown for the effects to be seen.
 

diffusionx

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There was no curve to flatten. Hospitals weren't overun and makeshift facilities set up to help hospitals cope didn't even get used. Nurses and doctors were making dance videos for God's sake. Every single measure taken early on was driven by a computer simulation. That simulation wasn't just proven wrong, it was proven to be criminally wrong.
In a functioning society, Neil Ferguson would have been executed or at least exiled for leading us astray to the extent he did.


Lockdowns came after large infection spikes to get it back under control. Masks, distancing and other strategies are there to keep the infection rate low which enables countries to open up the economy again.
Note, if the economy gets “reopened” and then some government official shuts it down a month later, it was never actually reopened. Based on this, all these strategies have done a miserable job at what you claim the goal was. We are at a point now where the government treats lockdown as the default and any reopening a gift from them to us; and people are fine with it.

The government has been dangling this promise of “just do what we say and you can have your normal life back” for months and that’s just not happening and it’s not true. If the point of all that stuff was to actually reopen the economy as you say, then the masks/hand wash/social distancing have been an utterly miserable failure that have not worked at all. We have talked about this ad nauseum, this strategy is missing something because we’ve been hearing it for months and it has been mandated for months and become a morality play for a lot of people (“you do it for other people”/“it’s a sign of respect”/etc.) and cases are still exploding, at least that is what they tell us (the tests are complete bullshit). Note the first time you hear about cases or whatever the first thought is, “who isn’t wearing a mask? Who is being a naughty boy?” Instead of asking if the promise of masks is just not the reality.

That said, If the goal was to scare a population into submission and force compliance despite all evidence of effectiveness, then those things worked beautifully.
 
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GribbleGrunger

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You may not get banned, but conspiracy theories would be more appropriate in this thread.
Look, you need to stop the 'conspiracy theory' angle. Once upon a time mainstream journalists used to actually investigate things instead of just reading off of a teleprompter. Those journalists still exist but they exist independently. I follow 'NEWS' (North, East, West, South) but question everything that's said and evaluate the information presented myself. I don't believe in the flat earth theory, I don't believe in alien abduction, I don't believe in lizards in the Royals or aliens in the White House. I believe in NEWS that's suppressed for one reason or another. JFK is in that category and THIS is another. Stop letting project Mockingbird control how you think because it ends with you NOT thinking.
 

GribbleGrunger

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I'm sorry, but coming up with more conspiracies to defend against the rise in stupid Youtube conspiracies is hilarious.
OK, so it was a brilliant guess on my part then. :) I followed it closely because it was so 'out there' and the proof presented for it covered nearly every aspect of every other conspiracy theory. I remember wondering whether one day they'd start using it to discredit legitimate journalist. Now, even journalists and people who don't believe it are suddenly getting lumped in with the nutters who do believe it. 'Conspiracy theory' the phrase WAS a psi-op, implemented by the CIA to discredit the questioning of JFKs assassination. They put some of their agents into news rooms to help promote and sell the narrative. Now that phrase is used constantly to discredit people but just as 'Racist' has lost its power because it's been overused, 'conspiracy theory' has too, largely because conspiracy theories DO exist. It's just something like a number of people (let's say the Dems) conspiring to undermine a presidency. That's a conspiracy theory ... and is true. So they have to come up with something new and that's why I got interested in the flat earth theory and wondered if it would start replacing 'conspiracy theory' as the go to put down.

It appears to be doing just that.
 
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sobaka770

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Their biggest spikes have been post-lockdown, so please stop while you're miles behind.
Can I also get some of these alternative facts? In most countries the spike came within 2-3 weeks after the lockdown because it's the amount of time for the virus to gestate and express itself in a healthy host. In some countries the lockdown was not done everywhere at the same time so you could have delays but there's clear evidence that lockdown was instumental in blocking the virus.
 
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Can I also get some of these alternative facts? In most countries the spike came within 2-3 weeks after the lockdown because it's the amount of time for the virus to gestate and express itself in a healthy host. In some countries the lockdown was not done everywhere at the same time so you could have delays but there's clear evidence that lockdown was instumental in blocking the virus.
"Peruvian president Martín Vizcarra declared a national state of emergency on March 15, when the country had just 71 confirmed cases of COVID-19. The order closed Peru’s borders and banned Peruvians from leaving the house except to access essential goods or perform essential work. It was one of the earliest quarantines in Latin America, and came in before lockdown orders in France, the U.K., and other European countries that were at the time far ahead of Peru in their contagion curves.


But it hasn’t worked as hoped. By May 28, Peru had nearly 142,000 cases of COVID-19 and 4,099 coronavirus-related deaths. It’s the third highest toll in Latin America, a region which has become the new epicenter of the pandemic in recent weeks, led by its two largest countries, Brazil and Mexico."

 

cryptoadam

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If you read the UNGA's resolution and see that the world sure as hell is ready to take advantage of COVID to push an agenda forward.

The virus is a real virus, and it kills old and unhealthy people. Every country in the world the deaths are 80% above 65, and 90-99% have a comorbidity, this is facts. Sorry for USA but you guys are pretty damn fat and unhealthy so your getting hit a bit harder in the 45-65 age group, lose some F'n weight and put down the ding dongs.

But the entire world just passed a farcifal UNGA that exposes the COVID agenda. And its about pushing climate change, migratns, WAMANZ, BIPOC, Social Justice, and complete control of the internet, media, information, politics and relegion.

And very interesting that the 10 page resolution on the global pandemic has 0 mention of the CCP and its cover up of the virus and instead of calling out the WHO it praises it and says we should all bow down to the WHO.
 

sobaka770

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"Peruvian president Martín Vizcarra declared a national state of emergency on March 15, when the country had just 71 confirmed cases of COVID-19. The order closed Peru’s borders and banned Peruvians from leaving the house except to access essential goods or perform essential work. It was one of the earliest quarantines in Latin America, and came in before lockdown orders in France, the U.K., and other European countries that were at the time far ahead of Peru in their contagion curves.


But it hasn’t worked as hoped. By May 28, Peru had nearly 142,000 cases of COVID-19 and 4,099 coronavirus-related deaths. It’s the third highest toll in Latin America, a region which has become the new epicenter of the pandemic in recent weeks, led by its two largest countries, Brazil and Mexico."

You really should read the articles you link:

"But public health experts say living and working conditions in the country of 33 million—where a fifth of people live on only around $100 a monthhas made it near impossible for many Peruvians to comply with quarantine measures. Meanwhile, some government measures have backfired, inadvertently leading to bigger gatherings of people.

...

The problem is that for many in the South American country, life is still structured in a way that makes it difficult for many people to avoid close contact with others, says Ivan Hidalgo Romero, academic director at the Institute of Government and Public Management in Lima. “The government’s [quarantine] strategy works for the 30% of Peru that is employed in the formal sector, that’s been growing economically,” he says. “But there’s another 70% of Peru, which is informal, that doesn’t have access to basic services of health, education, nutrition, or to pensions and financial safety nets. "

So basically in Peru case lockdown was not done properly therefore you can't really use it to gage effectiveness of a proper stay at home and distancing measures. Can we quit the FUD now?
 
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#Phonepunk#

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COVID it's real but there is a lot of misinformation. it isn't as dangerous as a lot of people have been making it out to be.

tbh im tired as fuck of people pointing fingers claiming anyone who doesn't scream "Wear your fucking mask" nonstop like a bitch narc is an evil Qanon member who should be shunned. yall are obnoxious as fuck. i know some Qanon people and they aren't 1000th as annoying as you guys.

the masks are effective but they are not 100% effective. that's not a conspiracy, that is just science.
 
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You really should read the articles you link:

"But public health experts say living and working conditions in the country of 33 million—where a fifth of people live on only around $100 a monthhas made it near impossible for many Peruvians to comply with quarantine measures. Meanwhile, some government measures have backfired, inadvertently leading to bigger gatherings of people.

...

The problem is that for many in the South American country, life is still structured in a way that makes it difficult for many people to avoid close contact with others, says Ivan Hidalgo Romero, academic director at the Institute of Government and Public Management in Lima. “The government’s [quarantine] strategy works for the 30% of Peru that is employed in the formal sector, that’s been growing economically,” he says. “But there’s another 70% of Peru, which is informal, that doesn’t have access to basic services of health, education, nutrition, or to pensions and financial safety nets. "

So basically in Peru case lockdown was not done properly therefore you can't really use it to gage effectiveness of a proper stay at home and distancing measures. Can we quit the FUD now?
Why because the article can help you move a goalpost? You made a dumb comment about when the spikes happen, this proves you wrong. Also not sure what further point you've made, part of why lockdowns are stupid is that people don't obey them, obviously. I mean, what do you want? If literally everyone stayed in-doors and followed everything to a tee obviously the virus can't spread??? That can't happen, though, you'd have as many people dead from other causes (we most likely do), you're killing the healthy to help the sick. Name me a country in the world where life wouldn't be difficult while not coming into contact with others? This is totally just "communism has never been done right" in a new form.
 
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GribbleGrunger

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Why because the article can help you move a goalpost? You made a dumb comment about when the spikes happen, this proves you wrong. Also not sure what further point you've made, part of why lockdowns are stupid is that people don't obey them, obviously. I mean, what do you want? If literally everyone stayed in-doors and followed everything to a tee obviously the virus can't spread??? That can't happen, though, you'd have as many people dead from other causes (we most likely do), you're killing the healthy to help the sick. Name me a country in the world where life wouldn't be difficult while not coming into contact with others? This is totally just "communism has never been done right" in a new form.
It would also (and is to some extent) lower people's immunity in general, making them more susceptible to other viruses such as the flu. We are meant to be exposed to viruses. We deal with thousands of them on a daily basis. A healthy baby is one that's been exposed to them and grown up with immunity. Isolation makes us all unhealthy, as does not socialising, staying in doors and not getting enough sun (Vit D). Recently they've done some tests showing Vit D ALONE helps with C19 ... I wonder why that's happening?
 

sobaka770

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Why because the article can help you move a goalpost? You made a dumb comment about when the spikes happen, this proves you wrong. Also not sure what further point you've made, part of why lockdowns are stupid is that people don't obey them, obviously. I mean, what do you want? If literally everyone stayed in-doors and followed everything to a tee obviously the virus can't spread??? That can't happen, though, you'd have as many people dead from other causes (we most likely do), you're killing the healthy to help the sick. Name me a country in the world where life wouldn't be difficult while not coming into contact with others? This is totally just "communism has never been done right" in a new form.
You, sir, unfortunately have a poor argumentative range so let me put this in a list to facilitate logic:

1. Only if a lockdown is properly implemented and enforced can it be called a proper lockdown and not just a failed policy of lockdown.
2. Clearly Peru lockdown is not a proper lockdown as it wasn't followed or enforced, for an example proper lockdown you can go anywhere from Japan, South Korea to France, Germany etc. dozens of countries - i.e. enforced orders to stay in place with tracing and fines.
3. You provide therefore a single strawman evidence by definition and say it is me who moves goalposts while in truth you've done nothing but disprove your own point that proper lockdowns are not effective because the only example you found is not a proper lockdown.
4. You now project further away from original point and move goalposts yourself saying all lockdowns are stupid because people don't obey which is again a conjecture based on no evidence with many states successfully enforcing such things with great effect.
5. Yes, the virus can't spread if everyone stays at home and doesn't contact with anyone for a month. In fact, one of the earliest remarks was that if we could freeze people for 2-3 weeks in place at a proper distance we could reduce Corona deaths by 99%. That's why draconian measures in Wuhan made China free of virus ahead of everyone.
6. As always, anecdotal evidence of a single case is not a proof of a trend at large and has never been which is what I commonly see in regards to political discussion. One cop killing a black person is not evidence of systemic racism, one shop burned by BLM protestors doesn't discredit the whole movement etc... One case of clearly unimplementable lockdown in a single country is not evidence that lockdowns don't work in what I assume is USA which is a first-world country with plenty space to social distance, the only thing holding the country back is mistrust of government and rules.

Therefore the conclusion is that you are part of the problem because as lockdowns depend on people's willingness to follow rules and a single infected individual can spread the disease to many, your uninformed stance on this is what would cause the spread.
 
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DeepBreath87

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You, sir, unfortunately have a poor argumentative range so let me put this in a list to facilitate logic:

1. Only if a lockdown is properly implemented and enforced can it be called a proper lockdown and not just a failed policy of lockdown.
2. Clearly Peru lockdown is not a proper lockdown as it wasn't followed or enforced, for an example proper lockdown you can go anywhere from Japan, South Korea to France, Germany etc. dozens of countries - i.e. enforced orders to stay in place with tracing and fines.
3. You provide therefore a single strawman evidence by definition and say it is me who moves goalposts while in truth you've done nothing but disprove your own point that proper lockdowns are not effective because the only example you found is not a proper lockdown.
4. You now project further away from original point and move goalposts yourself saying all lockdowns are stupid because people don't obey which is again a conjecture based on no evidence with many states successfully enforcing such things with great effect.
5. Yes, the virus can't spread if everyone stays at home and doesn't contact with anyone for a month. In fact, one of the earliest remarks was that if we could freeze people for 2-3 weeks in place at a proper distance we could reduce Corona deaths by 99%. That's why draconian measures in Wuhan made China free of virus ahead of everyone.
6. As always, anecdotal evidence of a single case is not a proof of a trend at large and has never been which is what I commonly see in regards to political discussion. One cop killing a black person is not evidence of systemic racism, one shop burned by BLM protestors doesn't discredit the whole movement etc... One case of clearly unimplementable lockdown in a single country is not evidence that lockdowns don't work in what I assume is USA which is a first-world country with plenty space to social distance, the only thing holding the country back is mistrust of government and rules.

Therefore the conclusion is that you are part of the problem because as lockdowns depend on people's willingness to follow rules and a single infected individual can spread the disease to many, your uninformed stance on this is what would cause the spread.
I know this a discussion about whether lockdowns work, but who gives a shit about how effective a lockdown is? It’s both unsustainable and unnecessary. This disease does not pose a large enough risk to the greater society to warrant such a response. It’s bad, but human beings have faced down far, far worse communicable diseases with less draconian measures.
 
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You, sir, unfortunately have a poor argumentative range so let me put this in a list to facilitate logic:

1. Only if a lockdown is properly implemented and enforced can it be called a proper lockdown and not just a failed policy of lockdown.
2. Clearly Peru lockdown is not a proper lockdown as it wasn't followed or enforced, for an example proper lockdown you can go anywhere from Japan, South Korea to France, Germany etc. dozens of countries - i.e. enforced orders to stay in place with tracing and fines.
3. You provide therefore a single strawman evidence by definition and say it is me who moves goalposts while in truth you've done nothing but disprove your own point that proper lockdowns are not effective because the only example you found is not a proper lockdown.
4. You now project further away from original point and move goalposts yourself saying all lockdowns are stupid because people don't obey which is again a conjecture based on no evidence with many states successfully enforcing such things with great effect.
5. Yes, the virus can't spread if everyone stays at home and doesn't contact with anyone for a month. In fact, one of the earliest remarks was that if we could freeze people for 2-3 weeks in place at a proper distance we could reduce Corona deaths by 99%. That's why draconian measures in Wuhan made China free of virus ahead of everyone.
6. As always, anecdotal evidence of a single case is not a proof of a trend at large and has never been which is what I commonly see in regards to political discussion. One cop killing a black person is not evidence of systemic racism, one shop burned by BLM protestors doesn't discredit the whole movement etc... One case of clearly unimplementable lockdown in a single country is not evidence that lockdowns don't work in what I assume is USA which is a first-world country with plenty space to social distance, the only thing holding the country back is mistrust of government and rules.

Therefore the conclusion is that you are part of the problem because as lockdowns depend on people's willingness to follow rules and a single infected individual can spread the disease to many, your uninformed stance on this is what would cause the spread.
1. The top 8 countries for deaths per million had strict lockdowns. The places in the USA with the strictest lockdowns had the highest death tolls.
2. No true-scotsman, point me to a properly implemented lockdown in any country.
3. You made a point about time to gestate, you've moved on from it because you found something else to latch onto.
4. Wait where has it been successfully implemented?
5. They DID NOT freeze people in place in Wuhan, lol based on what we know for sure the most likely scenario is the NYC one... it burned through their population and has no one left to kill, everyone at risk caught it and died.
6. Good point! That's why you should give me an actual TREND of lockdowns WORKING, but you CANT. The top 8 places for COVID-19 deaths per million ALL HAD STRICT LOCKDOWNS.

My stance doesn't cause shit, I spend most my time in the basement of my house playing video games, I haven't spread shit.
 
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cryptoadam

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Lockdown and masks work, but when they don't its because they weren't done properly, thus the goal post can be moved forever.

Meanwhile Sweden and Belarus are moving on with life.

Well maybe we will never agree, but there has to be one issue we can find common ground on. And thats if your leadership are stupid they will send the old infected into old age homes and kill them. Hello Quebec, Hello NYC/NJ, Hello 50% of Europe.
 
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sobaka770

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1. The top 8 countries for deaths per million had strict lockdowns. The places in the USA with the strictest lockdowns had the highest death tolls.
2. No true-scotsman, point me to a properly implemented lockdown in any country.
3. You made a point about time to gestate, you've moved on from it because you found something else to latch onto.
4. Wait where has it been successfully implemented?
5. They DID NOT freeze people in place in Wuhan, lol based on what we know for sure the most likely scenario is the NYC one... it burned through their population and has no one left to kill, everyone at risk caught it and died.
6. Good point! That's why you should give me an actual TREND of lockdowns WORKING, but you CANT. The top 8 places for COVID-19 deaths per million ALL HAD STRICT LOCKDOWNS.

My stance doesn't cause shit, I spend most my time in the basement of my house playing video games, I haven't spread shit.
Well maybe you do need to go out in a mask... or just take an online course: correlation is not causation. Most countries implemented lockdown after the initial mass-increase in cases (e.g. Italy, USA - New York etc) because governments didn't act decisively and most deaths are in countries with highest population and where it spread first and overwhelmed the systems - no shit. Most of the deaths are related to density of population and pre-lockdown sharing and overwhelmed hospitals.

You can check how effective lockdown in any European countries were on the number of cases. In Switzerland we hit a peak on 1000 per day and 2 weeks after full lockdown fell down to 200, 3 weeks - 50. France, Germany, even NYC alone - same thing.

In Wuhan they literally walled people in which is inhumane and caused a lot of unclassified deaths but the truth is outside of Wuhan and provinces around for several months there were no cases.

 
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cryptoadam

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On March 19th Switzerland had 1100 cases. Lockdown was March 19th.

200 cases Was April 20th, a month later.

Germanys lockdown was on March 22nd. They never got to under 50 cases. On may 30th they got to under 500 cases.
 

cryptoadam

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Imagine if Europe and the West would of thrown all their resources into protecting old age homes, and quarantining the elderly.
 

diffusionx

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2. Clearly Peru lockdown is not a proper lockdown as it wasn't followed or enforced, for an example proper lockdown you can go anywhere from Japan, South Korea to France, Germany etc. dozens of countries - i.e. enforced orders to stay in place with tracing and fines.
Wrong, Peru's lockdown was very strictly enforced.
 

Marlenus

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Their biggest spikes have been post-lockdown, so please stop while you're miles behind.
What part of delay between infection and detection did you not understand?

It was also a period where testing was ramping up.

Saying numbers went up therefor lockdown was ineffective, mid pandemic, is a bit shark jumpy.
 
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What part of delay between infection and detection did you not understand?

It was also a period where testing was ramping up.

Saying numbers went up therefor lockdown was ineffective, mid pandemic, is a bit shark jumpy.
What would an effective lockdown look like? If you go country by country and compare strict lockdown countries to countries that didn't have strict lockdowns are you going to find that the strict lockdown countries did better? No.
 

sobaka770

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I definitely give up on arguing with someone when they use NYC as a positive example of lockdowns working.
If you can't take factual evidence in front of your eyes and have to resort to strawman arguments you need to reevaluate your vision, mate.

Also: Israel is going on second lockdown after the one in April - watch what happens to Covid cases in country over the next month from the date.
 
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If you can't take factual evidence in front of your eyes and have to resort to strawman arguments you need to reevaluate your vision, mate.

Also: Israel is going on second lockdown after the one in April - watch what happens to Covid cases in country over the next month from the date.
Going into a second lockdown is proof lockdowns are bogus, dude lol
 
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sobaka770

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Going into a second lockdown is proof lockdowns are bogus, dude lol
That;s not how this works... maybe lay off videogames, and read why lockdowns are there what they do and don't.

To clarify here is the lockdown timing, the 2-week initial peak afterward and what happens when you lift it without proper measures to track and trace, masks and social distancing rules erosion. Clear effectiveness in slowing down and reducing Covid 19 cases. No it's not a panacea because as the world is turning the virus can come back and the lack of other initiatives clearly shows Israel was not prepared to remove the lockdown.



PS. And before someone says something stupid like "hue hue hue well it didn't work" ,that spike we see in September would've been higher and earlier and would probably overwhelm Jerusalem and Tel Aviv hospitals it's about delaying and managing not eradicating.
 
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COVID it's real but there is a lot of misinformation. it isn't as dangerous as a lot of people have been making it out to be.

tbh im tired as fuck of people pointing fingers claiming anyone who doesn't scream "Wear your fucking mask" nonstop like a bitch narc is an evil Qanon member who should be shunned. yall are obnoxious as fuck. i know some Qanon people and they aren't 1000th as annoying as you guys.

the masks are effective but they are not 100% effective. that's not a conspiracy, that is just science.
I dont recall any medical health professional saying they are 100% effective though? Only that they help reduce the transmission.
 
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cryptoadam

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That;s not how this works... maybe lay off videogames, and read why lockdowns are there what they do and don't.

To clarify here is the lockdown timing, the 2-week initial peak afterward and what happens when you lift it without proper measures to track and trace, masks and social distancing rules erosion. Clear effectiveness in slowing down and reducing Covid 19 cases. No it's not a panacea because as the world is turning the virus can come back and the lack of other initiatives clearly shows Israel was not prepared to remove the lockdown.



PS. And before someone says something stupid like "hue hue hue well it didn't work" ,that spike we see in September would've been higher and earlier and would probably overwhelm Jerusalem and Tel Aviv hospitals it's about delaying and managing not eradicating.
What about the nightly protests against Bibi though? Do you think that played a role at all?
 

Joe T.

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The government’s [quarantine] strategy works for the 30% of Peru that is employed in the formal sector, that’s been growing economically,” he says. “But there’s another 70% of Peru, which is informal, that doesn’t have access to basic services of health, education, nutrition, or to pensions and financial safety nets. "
Extended quarantine strategies "work" for 1% of the world if you're lucky and even that crowd can't stick to the guidelines for long. The "Black Lives Matter" protests are more than enough proof, no one treating this virus as a serious threat deserving of these extreme measures would throw themselves in crowds of thousands yelling at the top of their lungs for hours. That so many elected leaders supported those protests tells you all you need to know.

Everyone likes to say "I respect the rules," but know what they like even more than saying that? Their liberty.

Lock downs were a blunt instrument carried out for far too long, I'm quite sure this is the general consensus by now among doctors, scientists and economists - such health issue deserve a lot more precision. They were easy enough to excuse in the opening weeks because we were operating with piss poor information, typical of China and our horrible excuse for mainstream media. Once a region has its cases into the hundreds there's no longer any excuse to keep the entire damned city/state/province/country locked down. If you want to abuse that emergency power then throw them into all the empty hotels and let the rest of the world go on with normal life.

Isolate the virus and implement a more accurate testing process, don't dare change government policy around one that has no error checking. I'd say we already took two full steps into Clown World, but this isn't funny. It's maddening and if governments in the northern hemisphere get away with a second round of lock downs this anger is going to be impossible to brush aside. Reporters and elected officials here have been crying about death threats for weeks, I think they're lucky things aren't already much worse.
 

sobaka770

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What about the nightly protests against Bibi though? Do you think that played a role at all?
Maybe partially but we see that the country reopened very fast and the increase in cases started almost immediately. So considering that the growth is exponential at outset I'd say marginally so. He should've waited a bit longer and put proper measures in place before reopening instead of "saving the economy" only to have a lockdown again. It's not easy but that's the only way.
 

Marlenus

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What would an effective lockdown look like? If you go country by country and compare strict lockdown countries to countries that didn't have strict lockdowns are you going to find that the strict lockdown countries did better? No.
When I say locked down early, late I am talking relative to a countries infection growth rate, not in terms of day/date.

Countries that did best are ones that had good track and trace with voluntary distancing measures that the population followed like South Korea and Japan.

Then you have countries that locked down early and aggressively like New Zealand.

Then you have countries that locked down a bit later like UK, Spain, Italy, France.

Finally there are outliers like Sweden who was no worse than other countries but did not do a lockdown and Germany who did better despite not locking down especially early.

It is going to take a few years post pandemic for all the data to be gathered and actual conclusions drawn on what was effective, what wasn't, why some countries did fine without lockdown and others did less well with them. How well did certain populations follow guidelines prior to lockdowns starting, were masked used extensively on a voluntary basis or did people wait for mandates, did that impact 1st, 2nd 3rd etc waves.

Right now we have an incomplete picture in a still evolving scenario. To say right now that masks don't work or that lockdowns were ineffective or that distancing does not work is premature.