Japan’s law requires transgender people to undergo full sex change surgery before having their gender reassigned

Oct 21, 2018
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I still think it's way too harsh a requirement to force someone to get sex reassignment surgery in order to get a legal gender status change.
Well, agree to disagree on that. Personally I would like to see something similar happen in the US (though with government funded programs to help those transitioning).
Fortunately for trans individuals, this requirement is the exception rather than the rule around the world.

It is quite harsh, especially because that law doesn't take into account situations where a person is still in the process of undergoing transition and may face discrimination in the meanwhile, especially since Japan doesn't have much in terms of nationwide protections for LGBT individuals nor does it legally recognize same-sex unions outside of a few specific cities (so, for example, if a trans-person is in a relationship with someone of the same birth gender, or even the other way around, that detail compounds the potential problems).

Even the judges who ruled this was constitutional admitted that society is changing, even though Japan is infamously slow at this, and the rule may need to be updated with future legislation. It'll just take decades over there.
 
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Fortunately for trans individuals, this requirement is the exception rather than the rule around the world.

It is quite harsh, especially because that law doesn't take into account situations where a person is still in the process of undergoing transition and may face discrimination in the meanwhile, especially since Japan doesn't have much in terms of nationwide protections for LGBT individuals nor does it legally recognize same-sex unions outside of a few specific cities (so, for example, if a trans-person is in a relationship with someone of the same birth gender, or even the other way around, that detail compounds the potential problems).

Even the judges who ruled this was constitutional admitted that society is changing, even though Japan is infamously slow at this, and the rule may need to be updated with future legislation. It'll just take decades over there.
But the end result is that what trans people should strive for. A complete transition and sexchange. Without this you will always suffer, your mind will always suffer so what is so bad here?

They are not forced in fact they are getting their sex change surgery etc paid so they can complete transition to man or woman.
 
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Alright, I'm jumping in.

1. The title of the article, not really the OP, is exceptionally clickbaity. As the OP states, the law calls for a sex-change, not for sterilization. Of course, the former automatically achieves the latter, so it's a guaranteed result, but it's not *technically* the law. EDIT: Dammit, OP!

2. A major issue is the incorrect use of vocabulary. It's well-understood at this point that "sex" and "gender" are not the same thing. Chances are Japan doesn't even have an official "gender" registry in the first place; at least, most countries don't.

3. If the actual issue is changing your official "sex," then I'm a bit torn. By definition, sex is entirely dependent upon genitalia. As such, I can kinda see it. If, for some reason, an actual "gender" registry becomes a thing, then I don't really think sex should be a factor.

4. Insinuating a poster is comparable to Hitler, or to make any bold claims at all, simply based on a few posts, is a poor way to debate. Calling that insinuator a cunt, though, is also a poor way to debate. And I say that being occasionally guilty of it, myself.
 
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ArchaeEnkidu

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Alright, I'm jumping in.

1. The title of the article, not really the OP, is exceptionally clickbaity. As the OP states, the law calls for a sex-change, not for sterilization. Of course, the former automatically achieves the latter, so it's a guaranteed result, but it's not *technically* the law.

2. A major issue is the incorrect use of vocabulary. It's well-understood at this point that "sex" and "gender" are not the same thing. Chances are Japan doesn't even have an official "gender" registry in the first place; at least most countries don't.

3. If the actual issue is changing your official "sex," then I'm a bit torn. By definition, sex is entirely dependent upon genitalia. As such, I can kinda see it. If, for some reason, an actual "gender" registry becomes a thing, then I don't really think sex should be a factor.
The title was changed by a mod. It was just as clickbaity as the video.
 
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Alright, fair enough.

That's just my view on the matter.
Fair enough! For what it's worth I do feel there need to be more studies on the subject, the current process trans individuals go through in America seems far from optimal and leads many people suffering from dysphoria down a dangerous path.

Unfortunately discussion on this subject can be... rather heated, and it has led to far too little research in how to best assist this segment of the population.

It's a real shame how many people are being hurt because of this lack of information. :(
 
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Well, at least unless things have changed since the below article posted last June...it seems Japan is possibly trying to make it easier for trans people to obtain the needed gender affirmation surgery if they so wish:

- Japan to fund gender-affirming surgery

Yeah isn't this the point? Japan has a medical healthcare system and if you need this surgery you will get it which also means you can finally change your gender on the official way. Shouldn't that what trans people strive for? Isn't this the end goal of this long and hard battle each one of them has to fight and endure.
 
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They are not forced in fact they are getting their sex change surgery etc paid so they can complete transition to man or woman.
It appears that's a rather new development and hasn't been the rule so far. Apparently it doesn't apply to all cases either nor does it cover all costs. There's a few conditions too, such as being single and without children under 20. I am basing this on Ailynn's link to the article above.

Furthermore, I've previously mentioned a few of the problems that might happen. It's not as simple as you think.
 
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Are you certain of that? Or are you just assuming so?

Furthermore, I've mentioned a few of the problems that might happen. It's not as simple as you think.
Yes I am sure they are getting it. Japan also has a healthcare system and this is one of the requirements to change your officially gender. So yes it is getting paid.

It is quite harsh, especially because that law doesn't take into account situations where a person is still in the process of undergoing transition and may face discrimination in the meanwhile
But this is over when you transition is complete so I really do not see the point here to be honest.
 
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Yes I am sure they are getting it. Japan also has a healthcare system and this is one of the requirements to change your officially gender. So yes it is getting paid.
I've updated my reply after reading the article above. Turns out it's partially true, because there are conditions and limits.
 
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It appears that's a rather new development and hasn't been the rule so far. Apparently it doesn't apply to all cases either nor does it cover all costs. There's a few conditions too, such as being single and without children under 20. I am basing this on Ailynn's link to the article above.

Furthermore, I've previously mentioned a few of the problems that might happen. It's not as simple as you think.
Of course it is not as simple and yes the conditions should be changed. But the basic "law" on this issue is not something I would see as bad but rather as a reward after enduring this "battle"
 
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I am not sure I see the problem tbqh. Maybe I am missing something, but why would it be a major issue if the government doesn't acknowledge your gender change until you actually have gone through the process of having actually changed it?

The government wouldn't accept I was married until I actually was married and etc.

What am I missing?
 
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I am not sure I see the problem tbqh. Maybe I am missing something, but why would it be a major issue if the government doesn't acknowledge your gender change until you actually have gone through the process of having actually changed it?

The government wouldn't accept I was married until I actually was married and etc.

What am I missing?
The emotional aspect. If people do not have their identities affirmed it can be devastating emotionally, and having your home country being unwilling to see you how you see yourself can cause great trauma. For a group that is at high of a suicide risk as trans individuals this is problematic for obvious reasons.

Granted, your counterargument is fair. While people's emotions are important, they can not be the sole deciding factor in how a country is run. I hate to say it but the more I look at things the more I realize that emotions may not be wise to rely on when deciding laws.

Every time this subject comes up I wish there were more studies being done to help this group. It feels like we are being left in the dark when it comes to such things and countless individuals are suffering because of our lack of knowledge.
 
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I am not sure I see the problem tbqh. Maybe I am missing something, but why would it be a major issue if the government doesn't acknowledge your gender change until you actually have gone through the process of having actually changed it?

The government wouldn't accept I was married until I actually was married and etc.

What am I missing?
Because some trans people want it both ways. They want to keep their existing biology, but want to be classified the other sex based on mental state.

That would be like me being born a guy, but demanding I go to the women's washroom because I female like a woman. That's sure great for all the ladies inside the washroom...... suddenly a stocky guy with a scruffy beard which hasn't been shaved for 2 weeks walks in and takes a piss standing up.
 
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The thing is. You can identify to yourself however you wish. More power to you. The thing is though why should the government legally consider you something until you actually are.

A lot of transgender individuals suffer from what is a mental issue. Obviously. The mind views it as something other than that of which it is. But, this is also an issue where some may flirt with the idea of a transition but never do or go back and forth on the issue many times due to the confusion associated with the mental issue.

I think the government would be wise in those scenarios to wait until a person makes a full and complete decision through completing the process in order to legally recognizing the change.

Otherwise it becomes an issue which could be ripe for headaches and possible abuse.
 
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i_am_ben

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I don't think requiring someone to undergo a full sex change should be required to change gender. They can be fairly invasive surgeries, and there's a lot of people who are satisfied after hormone therapy - especially FTM trans people.
 
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I don't think requiring someone to undergo a full sex change should be required to change gender. They can be fairly invasive surgeries, and there's a lot of people who are satisfied after hormone therapy - especially FTM trans people.
I think we should stop using the word gender because it is so ambiguous that it is nigh useless.
 
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But if we did that what would NeoGAF post about?
Whatever ERA is talking about, of course!

Which... come to think of it is mostly gender discussion...

Point made!
LOL. Makes sense. We can all refer to ourselves as Biological Entities of Undisclosed Nature.
We could use the word sex. That was a pretty good term that got changed for no good reason.
 
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Whatever ERA is talking about, of course!

Which... come to think of it is mostly gender discussion...

Point made!

We could use the word sex. That was a pretty good term that got changed for no good reason.
But then someone will complain the word brings nightmares because they never have sex.

Maybe for any gender questions, replace it with something like......... If you are a human (and not an alien from Mars), mark an "X"
 
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I have an unrelated question here. Is there gender reassignment surgery for female-to-male? I just realized that I don’t think I’ve ever seen or heard about this in any detail, and I was just assuming all sorts of things. If it does exist, how does it work? Artificial penis or transplant? What about erections and sex? Is it as common as M2F surgery? (Heck are F2M as common in general as M2F?) Do they get to pick the size and shape? Do they get testicles too and do they hurt like hell when hit?
 
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Whatever ERA is talking about, of course!

Which... come to think of it is mostly gender discussion...

Point made!

We could use the word sex. That was a pretty good term that got changed for no good reason.
Lets not ruin the word sex either please.

Lets continue to let gender be played around with, but at least lets keep sex scientific.

Sex is what you are biologically and based on your chromosones. Some people even have a condition that is intersex which is not related to transgender.

But gender, that could be whatever they want it to be. I don't really care if someone claimed their gender was a horse. But SEX is SEX, Female or Male.
 
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I have an unrelated question here. Is there gender reassignment surgery for female-to-male? I just realized that I don’t think I’ve ever seen or heard about this in any detail, and I was just assuming all sorts of things. If it does exist, how does it work? Artificial penis or transplant? What about erections and sex? Is it as common as M2F surgery? (Heck are F2M as common in general as M2F?) Do they get to pick the size and shape? Do they get testicles too and do they hurt like hell when hit?
I am not expert, but F to M exsist and you would be surprised how good some of these surgeries are. Someone posted a photo of some body building guys that were F to M and pretty much all looked like dudes (a few you could tell with closer looks)





http://projects.aljazeera.com/2015/11/trans-bodybuilding/

These aren't the photo I am talking about. But you can see some F to M there.

Now do they get balls and cocks that actually work I have no idea. but I think its probably a lot easier for Women to pass as a man, especially if you buff up and take some hormones that grow you a beard.
 
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I'm sure we've all seen Buck Angel naked. I'm talking about F2M gender reassignment surgery. I literally have no idea about it, how common it is, or even if it exists.
If they could make fake functioning penises then you would think actual dudes would be getting dick surgery to make their junk bigger.

So I have to imagine there is no way to create a functioning fake penis with today's technology.
 
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Damn it, you made me look it up. There's apparently two types of F2M gender reassignment surgeries. The first is Phalloplasty and involves grafting skin from somewhere else (like the forearm) to create a fake penis, extending the urethra through it. The vulva is then closed with testicle implants in order to create a scrotum sack. A mechanical device (some sort of pump thing) is then used to provide erectile function. The second type, Metoidioplasty, involves using hormone therapy and surgery in order to elongate the clitoris into a semi-functional, though small penis (4-10 cm). This also involves a similar scrotoplasty with fake testicles. For the record, no matter what your curiosity on this matter is, I highly suggest you do not do an image search on any of the terms in this post.

Both of these surgeries are rather dangerous, with the Phalloplasty having a 25% serious complication rate (including the penis just falling off due to blood flow issues) and Metoidioplasty having a 50% complication rate. It seems that most F2M transgender people do not opt for complete genital reassignment, though mastectomies are fairly common. So it would appear than when we are talking about genital reassignment surgery, we are predominantly talking about M2F.

One thing I found interesting while looking this up is it appears that M2F occurance is considerably more common than F2M - on the average of about 250% more common in studies that only go up to 2003, but in certain countries (like Scotland), M2F was about 400% more common than F2M. Transgenderism has been growing exponentially in the years since 2003, so I'm sure that if the studies were done today, it would yield much different numbers. Still, this suggests, to me, that transgenderism is largely not biological, but social in nature. It also suggests that even within the umbrella of transgenderism, F2M transgendered persons are a significant minority and that maybe their needs and wishes are not being adequately promoted or addressed by the movement as a whole.
 
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Damn it, you made me look it up. There's apparently two types of F2M gender reassignment surgeries. The first is Phalloplasty and involves grafting skin from somewhere else (like the forearm) to create a fake penis, extending the urethra through it. The vulva is then closed with testicle implants in order to create a scrotum sack. A mechanical device (some sort of pump thing) is then used to provide erectile function. The second type, Metoidioplasty, involves using hormone therapy and surgery in order to elongate the clitoris into a semi-functional, though small penis (4-10 cm). This also involves a similar scrotoplasty with fake testicles. For the record, no matter what your curiosity on this matter is, I highly suggest you do not do an image search on any of the terms in this post.

Both of these surgeries are rather dangerous, with the Phalloplasty having a 25% serious complication rate (including the penis just falling off due to blood flow issues) and Metoidioplasty having a 50% complication rate. It seems that most F2M transgender people do not opt for complete genital reassignment, though mastectomies are fairly common. So it would appear than when we are talking about genital reassignment surgery, we are predominantly talking about F2M.

One thing I found interesting while looking this up is it appears that M2F transgenderism is considerably more common than F2M - on the average of about 250% more common in studies that only go up to 2003, but in certain countries (like Scotland), M2F was about 400% more common than F2M. Transgenderism has been growing exponentially in the years since 2003, so I'm sure that if the studies were done today, it would yield much different numbers. Still, this suggests, to me, that transgenderism is largely not biological, but social in nature. It also suggests that even within the umbrella of transgenderism, F2M transgendered persons are a significant minority and that maybe their needs and wishes are not being adequately promoted or addressed by the movement as a whole.
Thanks for the research. In the end it sounds like getting a functioning fake penis is pretty dangerous and difficult procedure.

And F2M are for sure do not get as much attention as M2F. I think that would be a real interesting study to try and understand why. As far as attention goes I think we can look at a few things. Our media first of all. Its an easier story to understand and package of having a Man turn into a women. Also the media seems to celebrate it a lot more. Kaitlyn Jenner was given a ton of praise for becoming a women. I think its just an easier sell for the media. I also think the notion of becoming a women is a bit more normalized in our society. Its easier to understand the idea of putting on a dress and becoming a girl. The other way around though. Women already wear pants all the time. Women already do traditional male things. But a guy putting on a dress, make up, making cleavage these are a lot more visibile to society.
 
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Thanks for the research. In the end it sounds like getting a functioning fake penis is pretty dangerous and difficult procedure.
That's my take away too, though I admit it is based on about 15 minutes of research using primarily Wikipedia.

And F2M are for sure do not get as much attention as M2F. I think that would be a real interesting study to try and understand why. As far as attention goes I think we can look at a few things. Our media first of all. Its an easier story to understand and package of having a Man turn into a women. Also the media seems to celebrate it a lot more. Kaitlyn Jenner was given a ton of praise for becoming a women. I think its just an easier sell for the media. I also think the notion of becoming a women is a bit more normalized in our society. Its easier to understand the idea of putting on a dress and becoming a girl. The other way around though. Women already wear pants all the time. Women already do traditional male things. But a guy putting on a dress, make up, making cleavage these are a lot more visibile to society.
One possible answer is that M2F can be, and often is, a sexual fetish (at least in some part) and envy plays a big part in it. The idea that they are a woman on the inside and don't have female genitalia doesn't speak to what they find attractive (or even arousing) about being transgender. While this could be common among F2M transgendered persons, I don't think it is as common.
 
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That's my take away too, though I admit it is based on about 15 minutes of research using primarily Wikipedia.


One possible answer is that M2F can be, and often is, a sexual fetish (at least in some part) and envy plays a big part in it. The idea that they are a woman on the inside and don't have female genitalia doesn't speak to what they find attractive (or even arousing) about being transgender. While this could be common among F2M transgendered persons, I don't think it is as common.
Also maybe men are just louder than women, even when the transition to becoming women.

Men take up more attention and space and know how to grab the spotlight.
 
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I was very active there for a year. The claim that there are no differences between trans-women and non-trans-women is new to me.

But if this was a standard position on Resetera or even an enforced one, then it would be very simple to demonstrate this. It is for other claims about transgender.
Despite the fact that other gaffer have brought a resetera thread in which you would be banned if dare to imply that a trans woman is in any way different than a real woman, doesn't matter to Yoshi.

I remember in the old gaf you could get banned too for implying the same. There were people banned for saying that they would never date a trans women because they are not real women, and the answers were always that trans women are literally women; no difference whatsoever.

It's amazing how our friend Yoshi is totally inmune to logic thanks to his SJW religious beliefs.
 
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Despite the fact that other gaffer have brought a resetera thread in which you would be banned if dare to imply that a trans woman is in any way different than a real woman, doesn't matter to Yoshi.

I remember in the old gaf you could get banned too for implying the same. There were people banned for saying that they would never date a trans women because they are not real women, and the answers were always that trans women are literally women; no difference whatsoever.

It's amazing how our friend Yoshi is totally inmune to logic thanks to his SJW religious beliefs.
The only issue I have is with the claim they say there are no differences between a trans woman and a non-trans woman. Because this is demonstrably false. Not an open research question, not a matter of sexual orientation, not a matter of sex vs. gender, just plain wrong. I have not denied any of the above (in particular, enforcing the position that trans women should be able to compete as women in all sports and that it is inacceptable for people to be attracted specifically to non trans women), because, yes, that is Resetera policy (a policy I do not agree with by the way).
 
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Forcing surgery to have an official gender change is not backwards ?
Less backwards than a girl with a penis. Simply put, females don't have them and vice versa. Officially you aren't a woman binary or not.

Don't get me wrong, I'm for people wanting to be themselves, I get it. But when talking about laws and law enforcement you can't have a middle ground. The weird thing is, if they do commit a horrible crime and leave DNA behind, the DNA won't be looking for the right gender.
 
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Transgender people still want to have children , it's systematically taking away their ability to do so regardless on how they choose to conceive. A man transitioning into being a woman might still want to have children. , Why should that be a sacrificed, it solves no issues and is most likely only used to push an anti trans narrative.
In Greece the law states that in case transgendered people had children prior to the name change, the parents rights and obligation to the children remain unaltered as before the change. Also the children will continue to be registered under the old parent name