All while refusing to acknowledge that culture depends heavily on immigration.
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Japanese reporter died after clocking 159 hours of overtime
- Thread starter badboy78660
- Start date
All while refusing to acknowledge that culture depends heavily on immigration.
perfectchaos007
Member
In Japan working culture its always crunch-time.
Lucky if they get paid atall never mind time and a half.
Our main customer at work is a big Japanese company. They are incredibly quick at turning things around (eg, if we require a complicated spreadsheet from them, we'll get it the next day) and place the most ridiculous expectations on us. It's a pretty big strain on us, to always be disappointing them, but I have to remind myself that it's not our fault they have such horrible work-life balance.
Dynamite Shikoku
Congratulations, you really deserve it!
lol in Japan you are basically a slave for your company
THANK YOU.
This is the attitude EVERYONE needs to take, ACROSS THE WORLD, to make change happen.
It's not a question of whether working a lot is good or bad inherently. It's a question of mental health and work:life balance.
Research has repeatedly shown productivity and quality of work improves if you don't work overt hours.
BobTheFork
Member
Coming out of school (I finished at 30) I was working 70-80 hour weeks very soon.
At the time I was on contract; They had to pay overtime so I didn't care at all.
I barely slept and was manic but I never thought about how it may be affecting my health.
It lasted close to two years. I don't think I could have done it much longer but once I got going, it just felt normal to me.
Now I work where there is no overtime to be had and no off hours support. I come in when I want and go home exactly 9 hours later.
At the time I was on contract; They had to pay overtime so I didn't care at all.
I barely slept and was manic but I never thought about how it may be affecting my health.
It lasted close to two years. I don't think I could have done it much longer but once I got going, it just felt normal to me.
Now I work where there is no overtime to be had and no off hours support. I come in when I want and go home exactly 9 hours later.
peteykirch
Member
I left my old job of being a lead bookkeeper because of overtime/over work exertion.
I was responsible for the paperwork M-F, and they had someone part time to work Sat/Sun.
They left, and for nearly 16 months I worked 6 days a week for nearly 60 hours, unable to take my accrued vacation and actually lost it, because no one else at the job could do my job. Even being off Sunday wasn't a breeze, because I knew when I get there Monday morning I'd have 2 days of paperwork to handle because nothing got done on Sunday.
Boss kept promising me that he'd find someone, never did, gave him an ultimatum and just cut it loose after he failed to keep his word. He saw the work was getting done, he didn't see any incentive on getting someone to lighten the load.
Skellig Gra
Member
Toxic work culture really is terrible.
Why would you work for free like a chump? I mean...
Why would you work for free like a chump? I mean...
TyMiles2012
Member
Yet in America, you get chastised for not doing any overtime. No human should ever have to work more than 40 hours a week. I feel very fortunate that my work has off production days that are optional to go to, so I can either use PTO to take the day off or at least get a few hours helping by tidying up the place giving me something to do when I have nothing to do at home, still adding up to 80 hours each 2 week check. It lets me work on my college degree and spend time with friends and family and I can still support myself. Hell, I remember hearing when the hurricanes were going on that entry level fast food workers were being threatened just because they were evacuating. I don't remember which chain it was though.
SomedayTheFire
Member
Yeah I am not about overtime. I'm out the door between half 5 and 6. Which is my finish time.
I've worked overtime before but it has to benefit me. I ain't working for free. I started a new job in June and have done a single day of overtime. Got an extra day off for that though.
I've worked overtime before but it has to benefit me. I ain't working for free. I started a new job in June and have done a single day of overtime. Got an extra day off for that though.
SafeinSound
Member
That's insane. And I thought my 110 hours was bad.
victreeb3l
Member
RIP.
Are these companies really that productive with all these people working crazy overtime? Or are they just not being as efficient as they can be? Why not just hire more employees? I just dont get it.
Are these companies really that productive with all these people working crazy overtime? Or are they just not being as efficient as they can be? Why not just hire more employees? I just dont get it.
What
AtomskEater
Member
I'm sure some people are working long hours to get stuff done or look good for possible promotions, but apparently it's not uncommon for people who stay at work for long hours to just be kind of doing busy work or trying to look busy, and they're really just staying late because the boss is in his office doing god knows what and the convention is that the employees don't go home before the boss does.
cj_iwakura
Member
How was this covered up for FOUR YEARS?
You were right.
The guys who were covering it up did a lot of overtime.
Well seems like an easy fix right? Mandate time and a half after 40 hours and this problem goes away?
Productivity is less important than perception of productivity.
Its kind of like, hm, gun culture here in the states. Statistically we know the presence of guns raises the rate of fatal accidents but they still provide the illusion of safety to many people.
Toxic work culture really is terrible.
Why would you work for free like a chump? I mean...
Well, it depends on where and what company.
I do overtime all the damn time, but I get 1.5x my regular pay for doing overtime. It's nothing crazy, but a little while ago I did 144 hours of work in 2 weeks - and since overtime is anything over 40, that means I got 64 hours of overtime at 1.5x my regular hourly rate.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
It is.
eyeball_kid
Member
I don't know about Japan's historical work ethic, but American companies definitely brought over Japan's work culture in the 1980's when they were seen to be eating our lunch economically, and simultaneously turned the screws on unions.
The U.S., when taking into account hours, overtime, vacation, parental leave, etc. is the most overworked nation in the world. Japan may hit the headlines with these kinds of tragic deaths and these may be limited to certain sectors, but overall Americans have it worse. Even on straight hours worked, we're above Japan.
I'm so glad I live in Germany lol...
Everything from 35-45 hours a week is OK. If there's additional hours to be made I can decide If I want to get paid for them or add them to my vacation time. Never had more than 10 hours a week extra though.
Brewster123
Neo Member
Welcome to the NHK...
Seriously Japan's work culture is ridiculous... i can't believe how much they focus on productivity.
Seriously Japan's work culture is ridiculous... i can't believe how much they focus on productivity.
gutter_trash
Banned
Japan = Live to Work, Die at Work
Spooky Scary Skeleton
Member
That's east asia's work culture in a nutshell.
entremet
Member
Which is strange since Japanese firms haven't really been innovating as much as they did in the 80s. It's like they assume the same success that brought them here will continue following the same methods. Even after the world has changed dramatically since the 80s.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
That's fucked. So glad I don't have to do that. We don't have overtime where I work, it's basically not allowed. If for some reason I need to stay a bit longer one day I'll go home earlier the next day, or if I arrive late I'll stay a bit longer. I just need to do my 40h/week, and can be flexible about how I achieve that.
Here in Sweden it would also definitely be illegal to fire someone for refusing to work for free. Employee protection is very strong here, a full-time employee can basically only be fired for grossly neglecting their duties. It's a bit different if you're paid by the hour, of course.
Here in Sweden it would also definitely be illegal to fire someone for refusing to work for free. Employee protection is very strong here, a full-time employee can basically only be fired for grossly neglecting their duties. It's a bit different if you're paid by the hour, of course.
Sakura
Member
It's fucking stupid to be honest. Work smarter not harder. But the people here haven't figured that out for the most part. It's all about how many hours you put in. How devoted you look. If there is so much work to do that employees have to work 100+ hours overtime each month, then hire more employees. If you can't do that either then maybe you shouldn't be in business.
This shit isn't even unique to Salarymen. I've done over 120 hours over time in a month at my convenience store job. If I were to do 160 or under hours in a month my boss would ask me why I'm not working very much.
This shit isn't even unique to Salarymen. I've done over 120 hours over time in a month at my convenience store job. If I were to do 160 or under hours in a month my boss would ask me why I'm not working very much.
RoadHazard
Gold Member
160 hours is just a normal month though (not even that, actually - I think the average per month with 40-hour weeks is something like 167 hours?). But yeah, that overtime is crazy.
I do about 159 hours of overtime a year, not a month! It is paid at time-and-a-half though so I don't mind.
I worked a bit for a mobile gaming company before the smart-phone era began and I went back to school the month I learned OT wasn't paid. I'm a motivated worker and I'll put it in the hours, but not for free, hell no.
I worked a bit for a mobile gaming company before the smart-phone era began and I went back to school the month I learned OT wasn't paid. I'm a motivated worker and I'll put it in the hours, but not for free, hell no.
markitrons
Member
My wife is doing her surgical residency - she regularly works 12-14 hour days with occasional overnights. Oh and usually half the weekends of the month. Last stretch was 21 days straight of leaving the house at 445 am and getting home at 9pm.
Frankly, I think it's inhuman, and counterproductive. But once this shit gets ingrained in a work culture it seems so hard to get rid of.
Frankly, I think it's inhuman, and counterproductive. But once this shit gets ingrained in a work culture it seems so hard to get rid of.
Sakura
Member
Yea exactly, if I were to work a normal month I'd be asked why I'm working so little.
I'm a part time employee, I go to school full time.
Edit: OT pay in Japan is also shit. It's like, 25% I think, assuming you get paid for it.
Since I started my new job in July, I've been working 6 day weeks mandatory. 10 hour days on Monday-Thursday, and 8 hour days on Friday and Saturday. Sometimes I even worked a few Sundays for double pay, but that's always optional. It is tiring with only 54 hours a week even, but I get out at 5:30pm on the 10 hour days so I still have a little time to go out after if I wanted to. It's a pretty hard balance. There's a few days in a row where I'm just tired so I come home, eat, fall asleep by 8pm then back to work again. Feels like I do nothing with my time. That's why I made it a priority to go out a few times a week now.
That's what I've heard too, though I don't even have second-hand knowledge.
I'm under the impression that it's mostly about looking busy and dedicated to your employer, to the point where things like working overtime and not going home until your boss does is culturally considered a norm. People are expected to show that they are "good employees" by staying longer than their normal work hours.
I imagine things like trying to leave on time or leaving before your boss does is just frowned upon as signs of a bad employee. Maybe it's similar to how constantly leaving early, passing the buck, and faking sick days is frowned upon in Western office culture?
family_guy
Member
What's going on in Japan? Saw an article about people committing suicide because they couldn't take it anymore at their jobs? Why not just quit?
sixteen-bit
Member
Samurai Gourmet on netflix makes retired life look so chill. Is that at odds with the nation's work culture?
You're right, and in other cases it can definitely impact you if you're looking to advance quickly in your career and snag those promotions.
For me though, I've always maintained that I'd rather make a decent wage at 40 hours then make a shit ton of money @ 80 hours a week. Personally I just can't do it, if push came to shove I would find work elsewhere.
dark_chris
Gold Member
Thats exactly how my gf and I are.
While working for a grocery store, they needed her to stay overtime but didnt want to pay her. They told her to clock out but come back. She didnt. He fired her but in the end, got her manager fired for trying to make her do free labor at the job.
For me, I dont do a fucking thing until Im told Im getting paid past my work time. If not, Im out. If yes, Ill stay behind and keep going. My me time is precious and Im not gonna squander it away for free labor to anyone.
Randomizer
Member
I read an interesting fact about Japan's polictal reporting the other day. Since 2010 they have went from 11th to 67th in the press freedom rankings. They are now the lowest in the G7. I assume Prime Minister Abe is responsible. The same for Japan's more apparent denial of WW2 atrocities and the push for a change to their constitution to allow for a military.
I like the German attidues, as we know they are very efficient and productive. And they don't have a big overtime culture there. The way they see it is that if you have to work overtime you wasted time during your shift, they also have a saying. Work is work and home is home or something like that, basically they don't think one should take over the other.
GameAddict411
Member
At this rate Japan will die off literally. They have very old population, and reproduction rates are really low. They have very strict immigration system that makes it almost impossible to immigrant to Japan because of their obsession of the purity of their culture. And now they are overworking people to death, and continuously without improvements.