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Rumor Clickbait Cringe Jason Schreier from Kotaku reiterates that devs do not like Lockhart, "significantly less RAM"

CeeJay

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I think it's pretty clear to see what Lockhart will be by just looking at the current consoles and generalising somewhat...

Xbox One S = 1080p current gen
Xbox One X = 4K current gen

Lockhart = 1080p next gen
Anaconda = 4K next gen

If they both have the same SSD storage tech and the same CPU but with different GPU then games should scale really easily.
 

onQ123

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People upset about Lockhart but Scarlett user base would die off without it most likely
 
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Clear

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PS4 Pro is actually pitched very well GPU power-wise for 1080p gaming. DF have noted this, higher resolutions is where it gets stretched and I believe a lot of that is down to memory and CPU being basically minimally better than stock PS4.

Lockhart, based on its stated goals would be around PS4 Pro spec gpu-wise, it needs to be cheaper but better performing at 1080p than X.
 

mckmas8808

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Could actually lead to some more exclusives on PS5, much like the PS2 days...
Not enough people understand how possible this is. We may get to a point where 3rd party games are on PS5 and PC only.

I think it's pretty clear to see what Lockhart will be by just looking at the current consoles and generalising somewhat...

Xbox One S = 1080p current gen
Xbox One X = 4K current gen

Lockhart = 1080p next gen
Anaconda = 4K next gen

If they both have the same SSD storage tech and the same CPU but with different GPU then games should scale really easily.
Did you miss the part where Lockhart has way less RAM too?
 
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If true this is gonna result in a lot of free Japanese exclusives for Sony. A lot of Japanese devs skipped the Xbox entirely or didn't release for a few years later and that was with two very similar consoles, I could see them not even bothering if they have to develop for a significantly weaker console.
 

onQ123

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Not enough people understand how possible this is. We may get to a point where 3rd party games are on PS5 and PC only.
Actually that's MS safety net , it will be hard to justify making the game for PC but not Scarlett
 
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Lone Wolf

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I have a hard time believing this. Even though 4TF Navi blows away 4TF GCN, It would be difficult to advertise that. Many will only look at the numbers. I just can’t see this happening.
 

Gashtronomy

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And? It is hardly the first time a corporation makes a silly blunder. Just because a company is rich doesn't mean they don't make mistakes. Example: Stadia launch, by the giant Google.
Or a better example would be Kinect and Tv Tv Tv always online, by Microsoft.

This isn't a case of misreading the market, this is a case of it being false because it wouldn't help Microsoft.
 
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mckmas8808

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Actually that's MS safety net , it will be hard to justify making the game for PC but not Scarlett
Will it though?

Or a better example would be Kinect and Tv Tv Tv always online, by Microsoft.

This isn't a case of misreading the market, this is a case of it being false because it wouldn't help Microsoft.
It wouldn't be the first time MS did something that would benefit them.
 
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With next gen consoles rumoured to be about £499, they kind of HAVE to make weaker/cheaper versions.

Unless you've been living under a rock for the past thirty years, you'll notice that average Joe does NOT like to spend a lot on consoles.
Thing is, the average Joe is also usually not buying a console within its first two years on the market. The hardcore/core early adopter gamers are, and they have zero issues paying a premium for a system as long as it justifies the price relative to competition (or if it does justify it, markets that value properly).

The reason more expensive systems have generally sold poorly compared to rivals is either because they did not have much to justify their premium over their competition, or failed to correctly advertise that premium value over their competition. Price was usually just an incidental, secondary factor, and the one to easily lay the blame on if sales were soft and the price is high.

The mass market usually gets in after that two-year period, when cheaper revisions start to come out replacing the OG models, and in cases like PS3, 360, PS4 etc., adding in more default storage space. MS wants to subvert that more traditional curve and come out the gate with peak sales, instead of the more traditional curve where you have initial strong sales, then a soft dip, and gradual climb towards peak year sales with bumps around Thanksgiving/Holiday season. Better to say, MS wants that AND the big Wii-style sales from the start with Lockhart.

So far though doesn't seem like Lockhart has any unique hook something like the Wii had for its time. Also, and I'm probably gonna get proven wrong, but I don't think PS5 and Scarlet are going to match PS4/XBO Day 1 sales. Doesn't mean I think the market is going to shrink or anything (I think it'll grow tbh), but PS4 and XBO came around when people were honestly just a bit sick of 7th gen and the gulf between those consoles and PC was noticeably large outside of some (mostly PS3) exclusives. 8th gen's gone on for about as long as 7th BUT we had a hardware refresh only about 3 years ago (2 years for XBO-X).

I think those hardware refreshes helped stave off any big migrations to PC but they've also tempered some of the hunger for an immediate jump to next-gen for some people, because they helped mitigate there being too big a gulf between consoles and PC regarding graphics. Unless anything changes for their distributions next gen vs. start of this one I think PS5''ll only do about 2/3 - 4/5 the Day 1/launch week numbers PS4 did. Scarlet probably only about 2/3 the Day 1/launch week of XBO. I have NO idea where Lockhart would fall in those guesses though.

If Sony leverages increases in certain foreign markets though and distributes accordingly, I think they have a better chance of matching or maybe even slightly exceeding PS4's Day 1/launch week WW numbers. MS? They'll have to advertise HARD even in America to try hitting the Day 1/launch week totals here; for the rest of the world I don't think any amount of advertising'll help him maintain XBO's Day 1/launch week totals for Anaconda OR Lockhart, not when we know Sony has the mindshare in those places and will be targeting their marketing keenly for those markets as well.
 
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GymWolf

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This is false. It makes no logical or business sense.
We are talking about the same Microsoft who slowed down xone with that esram shit and a 500 price tag because of kinect 2...
Never understimate how out of touch a billionaire company can be (in general)
 

FranXico

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They'll have to advertise HARD even in America to try hitting the Day 1/launch week totals here; for the rest of the world I don't think any amount of advertising'll help him maintain XBO's Day 1/launch week totals for Anaconda OR Lockhart, not when we know Sony has the mindshare in those places
US and UK forgave MS pretty quickly. MS has those markets back already.
 

Gashtronomy

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It wouldn't be the first time MS did something that would benefit them.
It would. Making a mistake is a mistake, this would be self-harming

We are talking about the same Microsoft who slowed down xone with that esram shit and a 500 price tag because of kinect 2...
Never understimate how out of touch a billionaire company can be (in general)
Misreading the market is different to wilfully fucking up.

I'll give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt and say the only reason they would go through with this, is to make the Lockhart so cheap and powerful, that it can do full BC and they kill the Xbox One hardware off. Maybe Esram is costing a fortune?
 

GymWolf

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It would. Making a mistake is a mistake, this would be self-harming


Misreading the market is different to wilfully fucking up.

I'll give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt and say the only reason they would go through with this, is to make the Lockhart so cheap and powerful, that it can do full BC and they kill the Xbox One hardware off. Maybe Esram is costing a fortune?
I hope you are right.
 

onehitflunder

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3... 2... 1... Phil Spencer about to say something via tweeter either confirming it, denying it or coming up with something else. "I has lots of funs witz ma scarletto mobile!"
 
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zeorhymer

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You was saying that it was nothing & probably just the preferred way to stream games ,


I take that as you saying that it's not a cut down version of Scarlett & just a streaming box.
I have no idea what a Lockheart is. Everyone was saying it was a disc-less XB1. I said, maybe it's just a streaming device since MS was pushing XCloud so hard lately. Then you mention that it as a 4TF vid card. My conclusion based on new info is that it may not *just* be a streaming device, but something that can render something locally. Then I come full circle and hey, it might just be a disc-less XB1. Not quite sure why you're coming off snarky.
 

onQ123

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I have no idea what a Lockheart is. Everyone was saying it was a disc-less XB1. I said, maybe it's just a streaming device since MS was pushing XCloud so hard lately. Then you mention that it as a 4TF vid card. My conclusion based on new info is that it may not *just* be a streaming device, but something that can render something locally. Then I come full circle and hey, it might just be a disc-less XB1. Not quite sure why you're coming off snarky.
You just admitted to doing what I said , I'm not being snarky
 

vpance

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MS is low key trying to go scorched earth next gen. If we can't win vs the competition then hey, let's just force a couple monkey wrenches in the entire design process of every multiplat game for the next couple years and dilute the new playing field.
 
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NickFire

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Do you think MS has any idea what it's doing? We all have to admit that this is stupid right?
I assume they have a vision / plan that they are working off. But I do wonder whether the vision / plan is consistently shared internally, consistently on solid ground internally, fluid or consistent, etc. And honestly, I have a lot of suspicions about whether their shared public sentiments are telling the whole story. The rumors that keep popping up, including those by Kotaku (I dislike some aspects of their the work, but I really, and I mean REALLLLLLLY doubt that JS would make up stuff like this), and their hiding sales numbers while trumpeting subscribers, engagement, etc., lead me to suspect as follows:

1) They are not abandoning hardware at all, at least not anytime soon.
2) They are not abandoning what we would call hardcore gamers either.
3) But services are their main future, and they are not giving anyone a chance to corner that market before they do.
4) In order to corner the services market and get returns on all these studio investments, my bet is they see rapid adoption of their platform by the casual market as vital.
5) My second level bet is that in order to see rapid adoption by the casual market, they plan to come out guns blazing on price while having enough processing chops to say this is next gen level upgrade over existing consoles, by primarily talking about cpu's in press.
6) And my third level bet is that they are going to dance a fine line of giving the appearance of focusing on hardcore gamers with blazing technology in Anaconda, using that platform for reveals, previews, etc., but have a retail chain and advertisements focused on Lockheart due to price.

Basically, I suspect that they see Lockheart's potential pricing as the key to xcloud cornering the streaming market faster than Google can hope for with Stadia. They love and appreciate people like us who post here, on ERA, etc., but they see us as a limited segment of the market (correctly), and won't focus only on us because we are limited in numbers compared to people who want $299 or less.
 
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Elektro_Demon

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I don't get it. I thought lockhart is the same console but just without the bluray drive. Now apparently is also weaker in terms of performance?
Geez, having 2 sku's the one with disk and the one without was bad enough, but having weaker performance is just plain stupid.
 

decisions

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Man if this results in games released only on PC or PS5 looking way better than their Xbox counterparts MS may have played right into Sony’s hands at the start of the fen again.
 

diffusionx

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I assume they have a vision / plan that they are working off. But I do wonder whether the vision / plan is consistently shared internally, consistently on solid ground internally, fluid or consistent, etc. And honestly, I have a lot of suspicions about whether their shared public sentiments are telling the whole story. The rumors that keep popping up, including those by Kotaku (I dislike some aspects of their the work, but I really, and I mean REALLLLLLLY doubt that JS would make up stuff like this), and their hiding sales numbers while trumpeting subscribers, engagement, etc., lead me to suspect as follows:

1) They are not abandoning hardware at all, at least not anytime soon.
2) They are not abandoning what we would call hardcore gamers either.
3) But services are their main future, and they are not giving anyone a chance to corner that market before they do.
4) In order to corner the services market and get returns on all these studio investments, my bet is they see rapid adoption of their platform by the casual market as vital.
5) My second level bet is that in order to see rapid adoption by the casual market, they plan to come out guns blazing on price while having enough processing chops to say this is next gen level upgrade over existing consoles, by primarily talking about cpu's in press.
6) And my third level bet is that they are going to dance a fine line of giving the appearance of focusing on hardcore gamers with blazing technology in Anaconda, using that platform for reveals, previews, etc., but have a retail chain and advertisements focused on Lockheart due to price.

Basically, I suspect that they see Lockheart's potential pricing as the key to xcloud cornering the streaming market faster than Google can hope for with Stadia. They love and appreciate people like us who post here, on ERA, etc., but they see us as a limited segment of the market (correctly), and won't focus only on us because we are limited in numbers compared to people who want $299 or less.
You don't need a $300 box to stream stuff. In fact, people who spend $300 on a box are not going to want to stream stuff. Something like Project xCloud would stream on a million devices people already own, including their Xbox Ones. So I don't think this Lockhart business has anything to do with streaming.

They do have a vision. You nail it in step 3. They want Xbox to be a service. They've said it over and over, the whole company is transitioning to services. To do that, they need people on the platform and subscribed to GamePass. Locking out "next gen" only to people who can afford a $500 box gets in the way of selling GamePass, despite the fact that everyone here is willing to pay for a $500 box. It makes a lot of sense for MS to offer a wide range of hardware at varying price levels, and also giving access with high-end PC boxes that beat everything.

The key is GamePass, not hardware specs and definitely not exclusives. Hardcore gamers comparing specs or spec rumors are looking at this the wrong way, just like the Xbox shills who got mad when MS announced everything was going to PC same day. Even if PS5 games look better, or the hardware is more powerful, is that going to be a big driver versus $10 a month for 100 games?
 
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mckmas8808

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I assume they have a vision / plan that they are working off. But I do wonder whether the vision / plan is consistently shared internally, consistently on solid ground internally, fluid or consistent, etc. And honestly, I have a lot of suspicions about whether their shared public sentiments are telling the whole story. The rumors that keep popping up, including those by Kotaku (I dislike some aspects of their the work, but I really, and I mean REALLLLLLLY doubt that JS would make up stuff like this), and their hiding sales numbers while trumpeting subscribers, engagement, etc., lead me to suspect as follows:

1) They are not abandoning hardware at all, at least not anytime soon.
2) They are not abandoning what we would call hardcore gamers either.
3) But services are their main future, and they are not giving anyone a chance to corner that market before they do.
4) In order to corner the services market and get returns on all these studio investments, my bet is they see rapid adoption of their platform by the casual market as vital.
5) My second level bet is that in order to see rapid adoption by the casual market, they plan to come out guns blazing on price while having enough processing chops to say this is next gen level upgrade over existing consoles, by primarily talking about cpu's in press.
6) And my third level bet is that they are going to dance a fine line of giving the appearance of focusing on hardcore gamers with blazing technology in Anaconda, using that platform for reveals, previews, etc., but have a retail chain and advertisements focused on Lockheart due to price.

Basically, I suspect that they see Lockheart's potential pricing as the key to xcloud cornering the streaming market faster than Google can hope for with Stadia. They love and appreciate people like us who post here, on ERA, etc., but they see us as a limited segment of the market (correctly), and won't focus only on us because we are limited in numbers compared to people who want $299 or less.
I'm afraid that you might be on to something. And the underlined is just plain wrong. I'd argue that the first 18 months of a new console matters alot! And that's mostly bought by people like us on GAF. MS' whole push to putting every one of their games on PC also lends me to believe that your number 6 point will end up before the failure for Lockhart. There's literally ZERO reasons for Lockhart to exist if they can also sell their games on the PC via Steam and the Epic Store.

Like.....what casual even wants to buy a brand new "next-gen" console for $300 when they know it's not the real next-gen console?
 

NickFire

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I'm afraid that you might be on to something. And the underlined is just plain wrong. I'd argue that the first 18 months of a new console matters alot! And that's mostly bought by people like us on GAF. MS' whole push to putting every one of their games on PC also lends me to believe that your number 6 point will end up before the failure for Lockhart. There's literally ZERO reasons for Lockhart to exist if they can also sell their games on the PC via Steam and the Epic Store.

Like.....what casual even wants to buy a brand new "next-gen" console for $300 when they know it's not the real next-gen console?
I don't think I'm wrong on the underlined when talking about lifetime sales, but at the same time I fully, 100% agree with you on your point. And I think MS agrees with us both too, hence the disparity between their public facing comments and all these rumors.

As for the lack of need for Lockheart - there I kind of agree with you. But not totally, because I think MS believes they need a cheap offering to tap deeper into the console audience. I may be putting too much stock into my own experiences, but to me there is a console market, a pc market, and a hybrid market (both console and PC). And the console market is significant.
 
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Bandi

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Could actually lead to some more exclusives on PS5, much like the PS2 days...
this doesnt make any sense at all. not even remotely. like, wtf are you talking about? lol you are delusional af what did you smoke, bruh?
 
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