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[martino]

just to dissipate a fallacy : release a ps5 only title don't prove anything when it comes to possible down-portability of its game design without more infos.
however, it sure confirms the push for quick transition to new hardware
imo, it's the right move being leader....

 

[Self_Destructive]

Like both of my examples, Rise of the Tomb Raider and Forza Horizon 2 were both developed for the Xbox One, and then Nixxes and Sumo Digital ported, and scaled them down for function on the Xbox 360.

Why do people have such an issue coming to grips with this? The Series X build isn't going to be compromised, the Xbox One and Xbox One X builds will be. It's not hard to understand.

I dunno.

I dunno what fundamental game design they are expecting first generation PS5 games to come with that couldn't be reworked or changed to also work on PS4. Like I said.. more frequent loading between areas, worse visual quality assets and effects. Less AI enemies ect ect.. It can be paired down.

I'd like to hear what people are expecting from first gen games that couldn't be re-interpreted and designed for last gen consoles as well. Some changes MAY have to be drastic... but designing a different version of "the same game" for last gen would likely pay off considering the market available to them. Not to mention the hype that goes into the next gen versions would absolutely play into people buying the current gen version.

I expect Halo Infinite's launch to be absolutely massive between XO, Series X, and PC.

I also don't think people will wonder "what could have been" when we're all just having fun playing it with each other on our respective platforms at launch.

 

[DaMonsta]

I'm not sure why people want to keep playing games that are increasingly struggling to do anything new or run properly on near decade old technology.

It's like people have suddenly become utterly retarded and forgotten the many, many reasons why console generations have existed for 40 years, and how shit gaming gets when a generation outstays it's welcome, despite that being the case just last gen, to the point that a huge number of people were genuinely thinking console gaming was dying.

I mean how much of a selfish, short sighted tool do you have to be, to want gaming to start sucking balls just so you don't have to spend a few hundrd quid on new hardware every 7 years or so years.

If the hardware can run it, there’s no reason for a dev/publisher to exclude it.

It’s not the last 40 years. The way games are made and the hardware it’s made for is very different than any time in the past, and even in the past cross gen games are the norm, not the exception.

I mean how much of a selfish, short sited tool do you have to be to want a company forcing the obsolescence or hardware just to make you feel good about buying new hardware?

 

[Psykodad]

Yeah, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they ignored the PS4 install base and sold all their exclusives only to PS5 owners. They've got to take advantage of that massive install base.

Why?
Because otherwise 100M are going to jump ship and buy XSX which has no games?
("no games" is already popping up on youtube left and right)

 

[JaffeLion]

I liove the fact that we will have titles at launch that are not held back by last gen consoles which were very weak to begin with. I look forward to more complex worlds and game designed focuese around nextgen technology. And with PS5's BC with ps4, we have only to gain.
Sony and MS had to let down either late adopters of last gen consoles or early adopters of the next, MS chose the latter while sony the former.

lol if you believe that any launch title will make use of that, than you are delusional AF.. the console are just about to get finalized, devkits, sdks etc. its impossible to use the consoles at 100% with everything possible.. if this would have been the case, then we wouldnt see any progress in the games graphics and complexity

 

[SLB1904]

Now that i think about we dont need a new generation.

Remeber BF4 on ps3 vs ps4?
Ps3 version 30fps with drops and half of the players

But yeah no diminishing return what so ever

Lol.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Yeah, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they ignored the PS4 install base and sold all their exclusives only to PS5 owners. They've got to take advantage of that massive install base.

I mean you really have to ask yourself, is this better for me or not? How stupid of a concept would it be to purchase Halo: Infinite in May this year for Xbox One/One X and then have to purchase it again let's say in May of next year for Series X?

That's what PlayStation people are essentially saying is a good thing right now and going to bat for it in regards to something like the The Last of Us 2. Having to spend $120 on the same game when Sony could realistically honor the purchase of the title on both and give you each respective build for your $60 purchase.

It boggles the mind how Microsoft's way is somehow the negative route where they ease into a generation rather than severing it instantly.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Why?
Because otherwise 100M are going to jump ship and buy XSX which has no games?
("no games" is already popping up on youtube left and right)

Because there's a lot of money to be made by releasing some of their own games to their 100m+ install base...?

Sure.. those 100m aren't all going to be running to buy an XSX.... but they are going to be hungry for new games... Sony themselves have said how important it is to have those people be able to play with people who purchase the new system.

It's about keeping that entire ecosystem in play and functioning at max profitability until the new gen can sufficiently take over. Yes, you need a reason to push people to the new console... luckily games can be designed for new consoles and scaled back.

 

[DaMonsta]

Yes, because they will respect people forking our money for new HW7 years after the PS4 came out and was showered with great games.

What about respecting the people that bought a PS4?

 

[DaMonsta]

Why are you satisfied to play a game developed for a Jaguar CPU in 2020?

The majority of games that will be bought and played on PS5 will be able to be played on that CPU.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

What about respecting the people that bought a PS4?

They would apparently rather have the illusion of some hyper advanced next-gen game rather than one which is equally next-gen but has a scaled back counterpart for the last generation system.

People are weird AF, don't ask me lol.

 

[Psykodad]

Because there's a lot of money to be made by releasing some of their own games to their 100m+ install base...?

Sure.. those 100m aren't all going to be running to buy an XSX.... but they are going to be hungry for new games... Sony themselves have said how important it is to have those people be able to play with people who purchase the new system.

It's about keeping that entire ecosystem in play and functioning at max profitability until the new gen can sufficiently take over.

Yes, they are hungry for new games and the newest games will either be available on PS4 too, or only PS5.
Like it has always been.

So, if you want to be able to play all the newest games that will be released on Playstation, you'll need to buy a PS5.
Otherwise, you have to wait and enjoy the games that will be crossgen.

But you can betcha that Sony will have some games that will be proper showcases of why someone might want to buy a PS5.
And with an installbase of 100+M, while also having Playstation hype throughout the year due to TLOU 2, FFVII Remake and Ghost of Tsushima, they are in a very good position to just do what has always been done:
Release proper next-gen titles right out the gate.
Espwcially with PS4 BC on top of that and cross-gen multiplayer, so people will remain within the PS4 ecosystem.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Yes, they are hungry for new games and the newest games will either be available on PS4 too, or only PS5.
Like it has always been.

So, if you want to be able to play all the newest games that will be released on Playstation, you'll need to buy a PS5.
Otherwise, you have to wait and enjoy the games that will be crossgen.

But you can betcha that Sony will have some games that will be proper showcases of why someone might want to buy a PS5.
And with an installbase of 100+M, while also having Playstation hype throughout the year due to TLOU 2, FFVII Remake and Ghost of Tsushima, they are in a very good position to just do what has always been done:
Reelase proper next-gen titles right out the gate.

So what kind of proper next gen game design are you expecting? I'd love to hear what your mind comes up with.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

So what kind of proper next gen game design are you expecting? I'd love to hear what your mind comes up with.

Want to hear what my mind comes up with? Games that are fundamentally identical to what we have and are releasing currently in design but will look considerably better.

Shocking revelation, I know. It's almost as if we've had multiple console generations before to build this empirically based foundation of transitional generation design ethos.

 

[JaffeLion]

Yes, they are hungry for new games and the newest games will either be available on PS4 too, or only PS5.
Like it has always been.

So, if you want to be able to play all the newest games that will be released on Playstation, you'll need to buy a PS5.
Otherwise, you have to wait and enjoy the games that will be crossgen.

But you can betcha that Sony will have some games that will be proper showcases of why someone might want to buy a PS5.
And with an installbase of 100+M, while also having Playstation hype throughout the year due to TLOU 2, FFVII Remake and Ghost of Tsushima, they are in a very good position to just do what has always been done:
Release proper next-gen titles right out the gate.
Espwcially with PS4 BC on top of that and cross-gen multiplayer, so people will remain within the PS4 ecosystem.

fucking ridiculous... AS IF there will be any "showcase games" at launch... you have ZERO idea how game development works. ZERO....

if microsoft would do something like that, you would fucking bash MS for EXACTLY DOING THAT - rightfully so - NOW that SONY does it: its great, its amazing, its what you want...

PATHETIC and ridiculous. You know that this is just a greedy cash grab by sony, nothings more, nothing less.. They could easily create those games on current gen consoles - easily.

 

[Psykodad]

So what kind of proper next gen game design are you expecting? I'd love to hear what your mind comes up with.

The same rethoric that has been used every single gen.

I want games that won't be able to run on PS4 without making concessions.
That's what I always expect from a new gen.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

The same rethoric that has been used every single gen.

I want games that won't be able to run on PS4 without making concessions.
That's what I always expect from a new gen.

And to your surprise that basically never happens because the only real early generation delineation is graphically based, the rest for some reason comes later.

 

[Self_Destructive]

The same rethoric that has been used every single gen.

I want games that won't be able to run on PS4 without making concessions.
That's what I always expect from a new gen.

Ok, so you admit that the games could likely run on a PS4... but with concessions.

Now... imagine for a sec... that they built a separate version of the game for last gen...and made those concessions. And then the people who couldn't, wouldn't, or didn't buy a PS5 could enjoy that version of those games.

Imagine that!

 

[Vawn]

Microsoft is doing it again. Sacrificing what gamers have always wanted and expected to push their vision of monthly fee subscriptions.

It's setting up another Sony moment where they say, "remember how games have always been, and how you love them for that? That's PS5".

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Microsoft is doing it again. Sacrificing what gamers have always wanted and expected to push their vision of monthly fee subscriptions.

It's setting up another Sony moment where they say, "remember how games have always been, and how you love them for that? That's PS5".

They're sacrificing literally nothing and giving people incapable or not ready to upgrade yet the opportunity to still experience a variant of said games.

The delusion and dramatics around here is off the charts.

 

[Psykodad]

Ok, so you admit that the games could likely run on a PS4... but with concessions.

Now... imagine for a sec... that they built a separate version of the game for last gen...and made those concessions. And then the people who couldn't, wouldn't, or didn't buy a PS5 could enjoy that version of those games.

Imagine that!

Imagine they don't have to spend time making a seperate version for older hardware and they can spend the time and resources into pushing the game as far as possible in as much areas as possible.

That's how you sell next-gen consoles.

Why the hell do you think MS will release XSX after 1 year?
They could easily release cross-gen games only throughout the entirety of next-gen, isn't that right?

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Imagine they don't have to spend time tuning it to older hardware and they can spend the time and resources into pushing the game as far as possible in as much areas as possible.

That's how you sell next-gen consoles.

Why the hell do you think MS will release XSX after 1 year?
They could easily release cross-gen games only throughout the entirety of next-gen, isn't that right?

Wow, it's almost as if they could still do this and have another team take that work and then port it and tune it lower for weaker hardware.

What a concept.

 

[Self High Five]

What about respecting the people that bought a PS4?

More than 2000 games in 7 years.

What about respecting the 80 million+ PS3 owners or 130 million PS2 owners? Where's there PS5 cross gen games?

 

[Psykodad]

Wow, it's almost as if they could still do this and have another team take that work and then port it and tune it lower for weaker hardware.

What a concept.

Yes, they could. They could do a lot of things.

Luckily for you, at least for one year MS will do exactly what you say.
Seems to go well with the gaming community.

 

[Deleted member 775630]

Already read that. What you haven't explained is why picking the arbitrary 12 months cut off. Why not 6 months or three years? You have no explanation for why it makes sense to intentionally give a 12 month cut off.

it makes sense that it isn't intentional, that it was just because the games are not ready. Saying it is intentional, is what breaks all logic.

He said 1-2 years, so he gives some room for the gains PC hardware is making in the following years...

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Yes, they could. They could do a lot of things.

Luckily for you, at least for one year MS will do exactly what you say.
Seems to go well with the gaming community.

It seems perfectly fine for well adjusted and normal individuals, it's not shocking that Microsoft detractors are trying to use it as some form ammunition for their delusional outlook that games relative to hardware at the top of the pyramid is somehow harmed in the process.

 

[Psykodad]

It seems perfectly fine for well adjusted and normal individuals, it's not shocking that Microsoft detractors are trying to use it as some form ammunition for their delusional outlook that games relative to hardware at the top of the pyramid is somehow harmed in the process.

Meanwhile, out in the real world, most people will be expecting the same thing as me.

And Sony will provide exactly that. Wait and see.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Imagine they don't have to spend time tuning it to older hardware and they can spend the time and resources into pushing the game as far as possible in as much areas as possible.

That's how you sell next-gen consoles.

Why the hell do you think MS will release XSX after 1 year?
They could easily release cross-gen games only throughout the entirety of next-gen, isn't that right?

They have the time, resources, and inclination to push the game as far as possible WHILE ALSO building a last gen version of it... cmon dude.

MS will release exclusive games a year or so later... because those exclusive games are currently in development...and aren't ready for launch. We all know games developed specifically for a singular piece of hardware will be best.. and that in the next 2-3 years games will look and be have different design than the years before as developers learn the new hardware and what's possible. But at launch... if you can design games to take advantage of the new hardware, as well as build a previous gen version... there's a lot of sense in it.

Not all the people that will want a next gen console will be able to buy one in the first year or so.. It's a very small market. Xbox Series X should sell well enough that it sells out as it's in stock for the first year or so. When the real games start to push the next gen consoles, then they should have those games ready.

 

[DynamiteCop!]

Meanwhile, out in the real world, most people will be expecting the same thing as me.

And Sony will provide exactly that. Wait and see.

Sony will provide you exactly what Microsoft is but less? Both with next-gen games except Microsoft will also have a last-gen variant in tow?

Sure seems like you're winning that argument.

 

[Psykodad]

They have the time, resources, and inclination to push the game as far as possible WHILE ALSO building a last gen version of it... cmon dude.

MS will release exclusive games a year or so later... because those exclusive games are currently in development...and aren't ready for launch. We all know games developed specifically for a singular piece of hardware will be best.. and that in the next 2-3 years games will look and be have different design than the years before as developers learn the new hardware and what's possible. But at launch... if you can design games to take advantage of the new hardware, as well as build a previous gen version... there's a lot of sense in it.

Not all the people that will want a next gen console will be able to buy one in the first year or so.. It's a very small market. Xbox Series X should sell well enough that it sells out as it's in stock for the first year or so. When the real games start to push the next gen consoles, then they should have those games ready.

So basically, you're saying what I'm saying, except that I'm stupid for expecting it day 1 because MS doesn't have any launchtitles?

Sony will provide you exactly what Microsoft is but less? Both with next-gen games except Microsoft will also have a last-gen variant in tow?



Sure seems like you're winning that argument.

I don't need to win anything.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Meanwhile, out in the real world, most people will be expecting the same thing as me.

And Sony will provide exactly that. Wait and see.

What if Sony's game doesn't look drastically better than what MS has at launch?

What are you expecting?

 

[Self_Destructive]

So basically, you're saying what I'm saying, except that I'm stupid for expecting it day 1 because MS doesn't have any launchtitles?

No. I'm saying that there WILL be games that take advantage of the console day 1... despite the fact that different versions of those games will also appear on a last gen console.

That's the fundamental difference between what you and I are saying.

 

[lock2k]

Isn't that what we expect when a new console arrives?

 

[DynamiteCop!]

So basically, you're saying what I'm saying, except that I'm stupid for expecting it day 1 because MS doesn't have any launchtitles?

Do you see why we believe you to be an idiot, and specifically target your dumb statements? It's lines such as this which make you exceptionally easy to counter.

You need to up your game, you're lagging behind.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Isn't that what we expect when a new console arrives?

Yea! With PS4 you got Knack, Resogun, and Playroom!!

 

[Sussoloc]

Yea! With PS4 you got Knack, Resogun, and Playroom!!

You forgot Killzone, the best game ever made!!!!

 

[Psykodad]

What if Sony's game doesn't look drastically better than what MS has at launch?

What are you expecting?

Then it won't matter, because in order to play said game I would've needed to buy a PS5, as I intended anyway.

See how it works? It doesn't matter if the game is of better quality, you need the PS5 to play it.
Hence, there's incentive to buy one.

And I'll buy it regardless, because as a longtime fan of Playstation, I know what kind of quality games I can expect, as well as the HZD and GOW sequels.

No. I'm saying that there WILL be games that take advantage of the console day 1... despite the fact that different versions of those games will also appear on a last gen console.



That's the fundamental difference between what you and I are saying.

And those games will be there, primarily 3rd party.

Sony can make the push for exclusives, as they ahve always done.

 

[Self_Destructive]

You forgot Killzone, the best game ever made!!!!

Oh yea.. whoops

What about that game couldn't have been downgraded and made on PS3 again?

 

[DynamiteCop!]

You forgot Killzone, the best game ever made!!!!

You mean that game that plays just like the other Killzone games on PlayStation 3 but looks a lot better?

 

[Psykodad]

You forgot Killzone, the best game ever made!!!!

Also the game that the gaf tech-wizards claimed would never be possible to run in real-time on PS4.

You guys added another reason to buy PS4 by getting your own minds blown.

 

[Self_Destructive]

Then it won't matter, because in order to play said game I would've needed to buy a PS5, as I intended anyway.




And I'll buy it regardless, because as a longtime fan of Playstation

So it doesn't matter if the game doesn't take advantage of the PS5's power... you're buying it because you need to.

And then you say... that you'd buy it regardless.. because you're a long time PS fan.


Now.... just imagine.. longtime Halo fans... Do you think they're not going to want the new console to play the best version of it? Do you think they're not going to buy it regardless of the fact that it also appears on the last gen consoles?

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. The hardcore fans will push the launch through.. regardless of what is sold on it. If Sony can start off a gen with Killzone and Resogun and Knack... MS could surely start off a gen with Halo and a couple other games and be ok...

 

[Panajev2001a]

What about respecting the people that bought a PS4?

They gave them exclusive titles early on and tons and tons of software during the entire generation even when PS5 was around the corner .

 

[molasar]

You forgot Killzone, the best game ever made!!!!

 

[Panajev2001a]

Ok, so you admit that the games could likely run on a PS4... but with concessions.

Now... imagine for a sec... that they built a separate version of the game for last gen...and made those concessions. And then the people who couldn't, wouldn't, or didn't buy a PS5 could enjoy that version of those games.

Imagine that!

This makes me think “a bit” about the delusion that Nintendo was going to use saving in shipping costs and whatnot to subsidise carts haha.

 

[PSlayer]

Bloodborne 2 + backwards compatibility and i'm in.

 

[Sussoloc]

Gosh, should have used smileys instead of exclamation marks.

 

[Guardian's Light]

What a non story.

There's an article from a big videogame website in my country, whose title says " ps5 exclusives at launch won't be compatible with ps4"

LOL wtf, you don't say?

 

[Self_Destructive]

This makes me think “a bit” about the delusion that Nintendo was going to use saving in shipping costs and whatnot to subsidise carts haha.

Would Nintendo have sold more Switches than they did at launch had Breath of the Wild not released on WiiU?

Think a bit about that.

 

[Raziel]

They would apparently rather have the illusion of some hyper advanced next-gen game rather than one which is equally next-gen but has a scaled back counterpart for the last generation system.

People are weird AF, don't ask me lol.

The next gen only game will almost certainly look better than the cross gen game, so it’s not weird at all.

Now, pushing for the highest spec hardware on one hand and also advocating for cross gen is weird AF .

 

[Psykodad]

So it doesn't matter if the game doesn't take advantage of the PS5's power...

Is that what I said?
You said if it isn't better than XSX, which is irrelevant to me, because I need it to be something that in it's current form isn't possible on PS4.

I base my purchase with the expectation of the next Playstation to outperform the last Playstation.
Sony's competitors are no factor at all.

you're buying it because you need to.

Well, yeah, that's how it works with exclusivity.
Nothing new or strange.

And then you say... that you'd buy it regardless.. because you're a long time PS fan.

Yes, I've been dying for a new system, even complaining about it here on gaf for at least a year.
And since I know what I can expect from Sony, it's a no-brainer.
At the end of each gen, Playstation has never failed me with their games library.
Why would next-gen be any different?

Now.... just imagine.. longtime Halo fans... Do you think they're going to want the new console to play the best version of it? Do you think they're not going to buy it regardless of the fact that it also appears on the last gen consoles?

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. The hardcore fans will push the launch through.. regardless of what is sold on it. If Sony can start off a gen with Killzone and Resogun and Knack... MS could surely start off a gen with Halo and a couple other games and be ok...

I know what you mean. The hardcore push the launch indeed.
They did the same for Xbox One and see how this gen ended up.

The hardcore will buy regardless and you have to cater to them, but it's the masses that decide.
And you need to give them reasons. Most of em don't care about all the technical progress being made as much as the hardcore audience does, they only care about what games are on what system and who gives me more value.