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Jason Schreier (Kotaku Splitscreen) : "Sony will have PS5 only titles at launch"

raziel

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Cross gen games should die as soon as possible.
Do people even remember how disappointing the PS4/XB1 gen was during the first and half year when it was all about cross gen and remasters and the actual next gen games were in development?
Buying a 500$ new console to play old gen games with better graphics all available on a console that I already own is something that honestly takes all the hype away. At that point it's better to wait for price drops or the now inevitable mid gen consoles.
That is why Microsoft's strategy will have a huge negative impact on their hardware sales with no exclusives and no games built from the ground up for a specific platform. They know it, they have already stated that they don't care because they feel their business is elsewhere but it's still disappointing.
We will be forced to deal with prettified old gen stuff from third parties games already....that's a pity but it's unavoidable since those companies ultimately care about their bottom line and not about a platform, but for a platform holder it shouldn't be like that. They should push the new platform.
Even in third parties games we have seen during last gen the huge difference in a single year when they stopped supporting PS3/360.
Just look at the difference between AC Black Flag and AC Unity (which was probably even too ambitious for PS4/XB1). Unity was on an other planet and Black Flag was fully scaled up on PS4/XB1 from the last gen versions.
I'm really glad that Sony will push PS5 with true exclusives and I'm really looking forward to see what the hardware can do with titles like Horizon 2 and Spiderman 2.
Exactly this.

Some people in here have very short memories.
 

Otterz4Life

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BotW being on Wii U did absolutely nothing to slow Switch hardware sales. If Halo Infinite is a banger, it will push Series X just fine. People won’t want the “inferior” version.
 
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VertigoOA

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Because Wii U already was dedier than ded
To some degree that’s true for the Xbox One brand as well.

The halo split will be interesting .... but I imagine MS will only be selling one sku of the game. No competing versions like older cross gen games.
 
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I enjoyed the first 2/3 years on the ps4. Stuff like Battlefield 4, Destiny, Bloodborne, Assassin's Creed, Alien Isolation, Tomb Raider, Witcher 3 etc. + all the good deals on the ps store made for a great console (i.e. many of which were cross gen titles). It's once the ps4 pro was released when things started going to shit, with unoptimized games with disgusting framerate the new norm (has anyone ever explained why Assassin's Creed Origins looks & runs far better on the base ps4 than Odyssey does?).



"desperate"? I get the best looking console versions of multiplatform titles on the One X. I have no doubt the Series X is also going to be a monster on which Halo Infinite (for example) will look amazing compared to the One & X versions. The only thing desperate here is the annoying console warrior trash tier comments from people who hug their plastic box whilst shitting all over another just because it has a different brand name on it. In this instance it's the "xbox is shit, muh sony exclusives rule!" dementedness.
'Halo Infinite' has to be built around a console with 1.3Tflops. That tells us everything about the ambition of that game.

Meanwhile, Guerilla Games can push a 9-12tflop PS5 exclusive (Horizon2) without having to worry about the shackles of old ass systems with netbook CPUs, slow gpus and ancient HDDs.
 
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spatialawareness

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Not sure why people applaud Sony for doing this.

They are purposely stopping support of the old device just to force people to upgrade.
LOL, yeah PS4 will be abandoned and has terrible support..some of you must only see misterxmediax blogs. PS5 exclusives does not mean there wont be any ps4 games, there will be for 1-2 years.
 
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CatLady

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As long as the specs for the XsX are what has been rumored, I'm in Day 1 because Halo and I have absolutely NO doubt the Xbox flagship will utilize every bit of power offered in the XsX.

If for any reason it turns out that the XsX is only 8 or 9 TFs, I'll probably stay with my 1X until forced to upgrade because that's not enough or an improvement over the 1X to bother with.
 
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o'dium

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'Halo Infinite' has to be built around a console with 1.3Tflops. That tells us everything about the ambition of that game.

Meanwhile, Guerilla Games can push a 9-12tflop PS5 exclusive (Horizon2) without having to worry about the shackles of old ass systems with netbook CPUs, slow gpus and ancient HDDs.
That’s... not how it works...
 
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Tulipanzo

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Which is exactly what they will do, just on the disk. Do you honestly believe the SX version will just be a 1X version upscaled...? 🤣🤣🤣
Oh sorry, didn't realise this was your first console launch.

No, that's not how it works
The game has to work on X1.
The SeX is more capable than X1, and can do much more impressive battles, scenarios etc.
However, the X1 can't so they won't happen.

The SeX will have improved visuals/fps, but will have to abide by the same restrictions as the X1 in regards to everything else.
 
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Panajev2001a

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Which is exactly what they will do, just on the disk. Do you honestly believe the SX version will just be a 1X version upscaled...? 🤣🤣🤣
No, for a marquee franchise coming from a big publisher launching their new RT enabled HW I see a nice lick of lighting paint adding on top and both versions to feature quite a bit of reflective surfaces, detailed rocks, streams of water, dense forests, dynamic time of day, etc... things that can look good on Xbox One X (not sure on Xbox One, performance wise, though) and much much better on XSX.
 
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o'dium

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Explain, because that's exactly how it is.
I don’t even know where to start...?

Look there are some things that will make backporting a LOT harder. Faster SSD access for one, and of course, CPU instruction.

But the majority of the stuff will be simple enable X: Yes/No type deal. And that will account for the VAST majority of things.

But even the other stuff that relies on let’s say for example cpu, they can be disabled, toned down or changed. It’s just a matter of more work. Animations may drop to half rate over distance, or physics may be disabled entirely on certain objects that have no importance. Physics calculations on the whole can be dropped in frequency and quality without any effect on the gameplay. You can, in effect, drop even the most complex of scenes down in various ways. It’s not just a matter of “reduce the lod bias and half the mips”, I’m talking the things people keep going on about.

Now SSD is a much trickier subject because this is where you start to have issues. If the game was designed to work with that and that alone, you’re going to get problems. But I find it VERY unlikely that any lunch windows titles will be using this anymore than virtual ram. You’re asking developers to change the way they handle memory access, and that takes years to get a good grasp on.

Let’s not forget as well that 99.9% of the games on a system are multiplatform. So these games will likely run on both machines, and more importantly, Windows. Your standard pc doesn’t have an SSD. So what do they do then...?

If you think of things in such a simple way you will easily find a fault. But I actually think the way MS is doing this, while not ideal, it’s not the biggest issue they will face. I don’t even think anybody out of sites like here will notice. You would still get MASSIVE differences in visual design, because Sonys studios are way ahead of MS ones.

The biggest issue, I can see anyway, is what if the SX has as big a difference in GPU power and SSD speed as the rumours point towards? That’s going to cause MS headaches.

But let’s just fill in a simple thing here... the best looking, playing and indeed all round game that brings even a 2080ti down TODAY, Witcher 3... Runs on a switch on portable mode. What do you think they did here? Just set the graphics on level 3 to low? Or maybe, just maybe, there are lots of other ways you can gain performance on slower hardware...
 
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Bogey

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BotW being on Wii U did absolutely nothing to slow Switch hardware sales. If Halo Infinite is a banger, it will push Series X just fine. People won’t want the “inferior” version.
Correct me if wrong, but I'd strongly assume the difference in power between wii u and switch is much, much smaller than between xbox one and next gen xbox though?

Meaning, zelda wouldn't have been held back as much as new xbox games would aid will be.

Additionally, Nintendo games have somewhat of a monopoly in terms of brand, gameplay and art direction.

Microsoft exclusives tend to be in very crowded, competitive genres. It they're visually lacking behind (insert any other generic shooter or racing game), I'd imagine it'll make their sales pitch a whole lot harder.
 

Tulipanzo

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Correct me if wrong, but I'd strongly assume the difference in power between wii u and switch is much, much smaller than between xbox one and next gen xbox though?

Meaning, zelda wouldn't have been held back as much as new xbox games would aid will be.

Additionally, Nintendo games have somewhat of a monopoly in terms of brand, gameplay and art direction.

Microsoft exclusives tend to be in very crowded, competitive genres. It they're visually lacking behind (insert any other generic shooter or racing game), I'd imagine it'll make their sales pitch a whole lot harder.
Good post.

To add, while BotW was cross-gen, the WiiU was clearly on the way out and the Switch had several announced exclusives already.

Xbox will have to market its titles across 3 (possibly 4) devices, all with different power, CPUs etc.
So you might see:
X1: 900p 30fps, feature poor
LockHart: 1080p 60fps, feature rich
X1X: 4k 30fps, feature poor
SeX: 4k 60fps, feature rich

Try and market that, when Sony can just showcase a brand new next-gen title.
 
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X-Fighter

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Good post.

To add, while BotW was cross-gen, the WiiU was clearly on the way out and the Switch had several announced exclusives already.

Xbox will have to market its titles across 3 (possibly 4) devices, all with different power, CPUs etc.
So you might see:
X1: 900p 30fps, feature poor
LockHart: 1080p 60fps, feature rich
X1X: 4k 30fps, feature poor
SeX: 4k 60fps, feature rich

Try and market that, when Sony can just showcase a brand new next-gen title.
How do you mean try and market that? They'll just show the SXS version... Just like trailers are now showing OneX or PS4 Pro versions... This is not more difficult then having low-specs and high-specs for a PC game.
 
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Discusguy

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Good post.

To add, while BotW was cross-gen, the WiiU was clearly on the way out and the Switch had several announced exclusives already.

Xbox will have to market its titles across 3 (possibly 4) devices, all with different power, CPUs etc.
So you might see:
X1: 900p 30fps, feature poor
LockHart: 1080p 60fps, feature rich
X1X: 4k 30fps, feature poor
SeX: 4k 60fps, feature rich

Try and market that, when Sony can just showcase a brand new next-gen title.
I agree.

PS4: Get bent
PS4 Pro: Get bent
PS5: 4K 30/60fps features
 
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Tulipanzo

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I agree.

PS4: Get bent
PS4 Pro: Get bent
PS5: 4K 30/60fps features
Flashback to 2012:
Shock, horror! Tears flow down my face
Through misty eyes, I read the news again

Ryse: Son of Rome, launching exclusively on XboX One this winter...

My heart shatters
I turn around to see my 360 burst into flame
 

Chiggs

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Xbox will have to market its titles across 3 (possibly 4) devices, all with different power, CPUs etc.
So you might see:
X1: 900p 30fps, feature poor
LockHart: 1080p 60fps, feature rich
X1X: 4k 30fps, feature poor
SeX: 4k 60fps, feature rich

Try and market that, when Sony can just showcase a brand new next-gen title.
Exactly!

We should all hope and pray that MS just cans Lockhart and instead drops the price of the Xbox One X and makes that entry level.

What MS is doing is nothing short of self-sabotage.
 
Feb 15, 2013
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I don’t even know where to start...?

Look there are some things that will make backporting a LOT harder. Faster SSD access for one, and of course, CPU instruction.

But the majority of the stuff will be simple enable X: Yes/No type deal. And that will account for the VAST majority of things.

But even the other stuff that relies on let’s say for example cpu, they can be disabled, toned down or changed. It’s just a matter of more work. Animations may drop to half rate over distance, or physics may be disabled entirely on certain objects that have no importance. Physics calculations on the whole can be dropped in frequency and quality without any effect on the gameplay. You can, in effect, drop even the most complex of scenes down in various ways. It’s not just a matter of “reduce the lod bias and half the mips”, I’m talking the things people keep going on about.

Now SSD is a much trickier subject because this is where you start to have issues. If the game was designed to work with that and that alone, you’re going to get problems. But I find it VERY unlikely that any lunch windows titles will be using this anymore than virtual ram. You’re asking developers to change the way they handle memory access, and that takes years to get a good grasp on.

Let’s not forget as well that 99.9% of the games on a system are multiplatform. So these games will likely run on both machines, and more importantly, Windows. Your standard pc doesn’t have an SSD. So what do they do then...?

If you think of things in such a simple way you will easily find a fault. But I actually think the way MS is doing this, while not ideal, it’s not the biggest issue they will face. I don’t even think anybody out of sites like here will notice. You would still get MASSIVE differences in visual design, because Sonys studios are way ahead of MS ones.

The biggest issue, I can see anyway, is what if the SX has as big a difference in GPU power and SSD speed as the rumours point towards? That’s going to cause MS headaches.

But let’s just fill in a simple thing here... the best looking, playing and indeed all round game that brings even a 2080ti down TODAY, Witcher 3... Runs on a switch on portable mode. What do you think they did here? Just set the graphics on level 3 to low? Or maybe, just maybe, there are lots of other ways you can gain performance on slower hardware...
Nice explanation but you're assuming Xboxs devs will build games for XSX and downport to XB1 and it's ludicrous 1.3tf design. First of all, that doesn't always work so the ambition of said titles will be kneecapped from birth.

Second, this means some or even most games will be built to run on XB1 first and uported to XSX, essentially meaning XB1 games with higher IQ and framerates. Now if you tell me 'what's wrong with that?' I'll say fucking hell, we've had 7 years of 'XB1' limited titles, this is a new gen, let's see some boundaries being pushed. This is NEXT GEN. Meaning a break from the old limits and the chance to push the industry forward.
 

Discusguy

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Flashback to 2012:
Shock, horror! Tears flow down my face
Through misty eyes, I read the news again

Ryse: Son of Rome, launching exclusively on XboX One this winter...

My heart shatters
I turn around to see my 360 burst into flame
Times have changed and that’s why MS says their games will be forward and back compatible. Sony against their will is offering BC as well but not Forward BC because I suspect their software is bunk.
 
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DaMonsta

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Nice explanation but you're assuming Xboxs devs will build games for XSX and downport to XB1 and it's ludicrous 1.3tf design. First of all, that doesn't always work so the ambition of said titles will be kneecapped from birth.
They already said they are.

Pretty much all devs start development with high end PC spec, and port down.

That’s how modern game dev works.
 
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demigod

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fucking ridiculous... AS IF there will be any "showcase games" at launch... you have ZERO idea how game development works. ZERO....

if microsoft would do something like that, you would fucking bash MS for EXACTLY DOING THAT - rightfully so - NOW that SONY does it: its great, its amazing, its what you want...

PATHETIC and ridiculous. You know that this is just a greedy cash grab by sony, nothings more, nothing less.. They could easily create those games on current gen consoles - easily.
How many people bashed MS for having Ryse and Dead Rising 4 as Xbox one exclusive? Raise your hands please.

Because MS is doing something different this upcoming gen whereas Sony stayed the same, Sony is the bad guy :messenger_tears_of_joy: .
 
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SLB1904

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Ok, so you admit that the games could likely run on a PS4... but with concessions.

Now... imagine for a sec... that they built a separate version of the game for last gen...and made those concessions. And then the people who couldn't, wouldn't, or didn't buy a PS5 could enjoy that version of those games.

Imagine that!
Fuck these people lol
 

DaMonsta

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How many people bashed MS for having Ryse and Dead Rising 4 as Xbox one exclusive? Raise your hands please.

Because MS is doing something different this upcoming gen whereas Sony stayed the same, Sony is the bad guy :messenger_tears_of_joy: .
I precisely remember people saying Ryse was bad/limited cause it started out as 360 game.

Now y’all proping it up as “next gen” showcase.

Just because something is the status quo, doesn’t make it the “right” thing to do.

MS doing something “different” benefits consumers. Why shouldn’t it be applauded?
 

o'dium

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Nice explanation but you're assuming Xboxs devs will build games for XSX and downport to XB1 and it's ludicrous 1.3tf design. First of all, that doesn't always work so the ambition of said titles will be kneecapped from birth.

Second, this means some or even most games will be built to run on XB1 first and uported to XSX, essentially meaning XB1 games with higher IQ and framerates. Now if you tell me 'what's wrong with that?' I'll say fucking hell, we've had 7 years of 'XB1' limited titles, this is a new gen, let's see some boundaries being pushed. This is NEXT GEN. Meaning a break from the old limits and the chance to push the industry forward.
1) that’s exactly what they are doing on...

2) their very few games that will even do this.

Regardless, this is exactly how things have worked for decades. Game gets made, usually for highest spec machine, or machine that will sell most copies, then gets ported to other spec machines, usually lower.

That’s, well... that’s just basic? Nothing is changing here? You can still have your epic 256 man battles in Halo Infinite with massive worlds. You just need to understand you may not have that same setup on Xbox one.

That’s pretty standard and has been since day dot.

Now, I will throw on a “but” and that is the mid gen X and Pro. But those consoles were not built as a generation leap, they were built to do the very same exact shit... but at 4k. Games here are not made for this spec, they are made for base hardware and then given a res or quality boost of available. But this isn’t the same thing, not even close.
 
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demigod

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I precisely remember people saying Ryse was bad/limited cause it started out as 360 game.

Now y’all proping it up as “next gen” showcase.

Just because something is the status quo, doesn’t make it the “right” thing to do.

MS doing something “different” benefits consumers. Why shouldn’t it be applauded?
Xbox fans always propped Ryse as next gen when comparing to ps4 titles. But that’s not what I asked, stop trying to move the goalpost.

If they are so “pro consumer”, why bother releasing the xsx claiming to have the most powerful console while gimping it.
 
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They already said they are.

Pretty much all devs start development with high end PC spec, and port down.

That’s how modern game dev works.
No, try to understand what I'm saying. Of course devs use high end devkits. My point is, there's a huge, HUGE difference between given free reign to make an exclusive where the baseline is the monstrously and dangerously powerful PS5, or making an exclusive where the baseline has to be the XB1 (the 2012-era CPU and 32-bit ESRAM n all).

I mean if you honestly dont think there's much difference between the two scenarios, you'd be playing silly buggers and our debate has ended before its warmed up.
 
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Mass Shift

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I precisely remember people saying Ryse was bad/limited cause it started out as 360 game.

Now y’all proping it up as “next gen” showcase.

Just because something is the status quo, doesn’t make it the “right” thing to do.

MS doing something “different” benefits consumers. Why shouldn’t it be applauded?
No, they found yet another narrative to push.

It's so obvious to the point of being naked.
 
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SLB1904

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I precisely remember people saying Ryse was bad/limited cause it started out as 360 game.

Now y’all proping it up as “next gen” showcase.

Just because something is the status quo, doesn’t make it the “right” thing to do.

MS doing something “different” benefits consumers. Why shouldn’t it be applauded?
I dont know where you guys work. Consumers are the worst.
This is a expensive hobbie not necessity. If you cant afford dont buy it.

The pro consumers bullshit is one the most petty shit ive seen

The hypocrisy is insane
"Consoles sale are not important"
Imagine saying that with absurd amount of money ps4 and switch bring to the table.
L remember a greenberg sharing a picture of xbox one selling out on black friday and shaming sony. But console sales doesnt matter.

"Game sales arent important"

Halo 5 will outsell U4 LTD in one month

"We dont need next gen ecclusives"

Look how many zombies we can put on the screen in dead rising 4 compare to xbox360

And this shit gos on
But agsin there were fanboys defending drm.
And 7 years later the future hasnt come yet
 
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DaMonsta

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Xbox fans always propped Ryse as next gen when comparing to ps4 titles. But that’s not what I asked, stop trying to move the goalpost.

If they are so “pro consumer”, why bother releasing the xsx claiming to have the most powerful console while gimping it.
Didn’t move any goalpost. Just showing how these narratives change based on the situation.

At the start of this gen Ryse was supposedly an example of a game being held back by starting development on last gen.

Now that same game is being brought up as an example of the benefits of a “next gen” only game.

XSX won’t be gimped, you made that up.
 

DaMonsta

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No, try to understand what I'm saying. Of course devs use high end devkits. My point is, there's a huge, HUGE difference between given free reign to make an exclusive where the baseline is the monstrously and dangerously powerful PS5, or making an exclusive where the baseline has to be the XB1 (the 2012-era CPU and 32-bit ESRAM n all).

I mean if you honestly dont think there's much difference between the two scenarios, you'd be playing silly buggers and our debate has ended before its warmed up.
Again, plenty of devs have come out to say, your premiss is wrong.

Games are scalable.
 
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martino

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people keep forgetting this is first time console generation will be like upgrading a pc config
lot of complexity of incompatible architecture and need of new tools will be gone.

a game not pushing special features relying on ssd or more powerfull cpu for game design can scale in thoses conditions.
and if there is features relying on them you can choose them to not be ones on you core game design
if you don't go hyperbole and generalization it's not impossible.
i bet a game pushing next gen visuals with backport compatible game design can blow mind
(games wanting to blown mind visually will probably also go there because they will need most of power in that department)
 
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DaMonsta

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I dont know where you guys work. Consumers are the worst.
This is a expensive hobbie not necessity. If you cant afford dont buy it.

The pro consumers bullshit is one the most petty shit ive seen

The hypocrisy is insane
"Consoles sale are not important"
Imagine saying that with absurd amount of money ps4 and switch bring to the table.
L remember a greenberg sharing a picture of xbox one selling out on black friday and shaming sony. But console sales doesnt matter.

"Game sales arent important"

Halo 5 will outsell U4 LTD in one month

"We dont need next gen ecclusives"

Look how many zombies we can put on the screen in dead rising 4 compare to xbox360

And this shit gos on
But agsin there were fanboys defending drm.
And 7 years later the future hasnt come yet
Not sure what any of this has to do with what I said.

Let go of the war, so you can think straight.
 

Humdinger

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Why?
Because otherwise 100M are going to jump ship and buy XSX which has no games?
("no games" is already popping up on youtube left and right)
No, because releasing games that run on PS4 as well as PS5 massively expands the number of people who can purchase the game and therefore the amount of money they can earn from that game. It's the difference between offering a product to a pool of 120 million people vs. a pool of 10 million people.

That's why I said they'd be shooting themselves in the foot if they released all exclusives on PS5 only. It has nothing to do with jumping ship or going to Xbox. It has to do with potential sales for the game.
 
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ShadowWolf712

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BotW being on Wii U did absolutely nothing to slow Switch hardware sales. If Halo Infinite is a banger, it will push Series X just fine. People won’t want the “inferior” version.
Yeah but BotW was also mostly marketed as a Switch launch title. There's still a surprising number of people who don't know the game is on the Wii U too.

MS seems to be about making SURE people are aware it's on both. Which may also be why they're saying "the console is just called Xbox" now.