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Jason Schreier : What I actually said on Kotaku Splitscreen about the PlayStation 5's specs

Herr Edgy

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PC games have never been developed with an SSD in mind until Star Citizen came along, and having such a fast pool of memory to dip into has absolutely created a paradigm shift in how games are developed.

There's a reason devs are stoked to be working with SSD's by default and using existing PC games that were never developed with that in mind is a bad comparison.
See, you are already way misinformed.
When you open up Unreal Engine you will mostly develop for all platforms in a similar way and tweak quality settings for a long time until your performance target is reached on all platforms. Do you really think that devs manually move their trillion bits manually around in most games to achieve max sequential speeds? That's not the level at which optimization generally occurs.

Devs will deploy their build on the target devkit, see it runs well/much better than on previous consoles and be happy with it, or not, and optimize some more. Don't buy into PR, ever. Moving to SSDs as baseline is great, that doesn't mean that having SSDs as a baseline will magically make games better than they used to be on high end PCs.
 
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tryDEATH

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Does nobody find it even a bit curious and strange that you primarily have developers connected to Sony and the odd outside dev coming in support of the PS5 looking like they are trying to do damage control going as much as saying its the better console.

We didn't see any sort of similar PR push when MS revealed their info. This really looks like huge damage control. This is a journalist that has to apologize to the mob for them taking him out of context and being rounded up by devs to put in a good word and clean up PS5 image. Red flags everywhere.
 

Jigga117

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Why does a journalist care if a corporation is conveying its message correctly ? Why does he seem angry because he thinks that a corporation is doing a bad pr job and why is he trying to help that corporation ?
The Sean Hannity of *gaming journalist
 
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FStubbs

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See, you are already way misinformed.
When you open up Unreal Engine you will mostly develop for all platforms in a similar way and tweak quality settings for a long time until your performance target is reached on all platforms. Do you really think that devs manually move their trillion bits manually around in most games to achieve max sequential speeds? That's not the level at which optimization generally occurs.

Devs will deploy their build on the target devkit, see it runs well/much better than on previous consoles and be happy with it, or not, and optimize some more. Don't buy into PR, ever. Moving to SSDs as baseline is great, that doesn't mean that having SSDs as a baseline will magically make games better than they used to be on high end PCs.
The thing I wonder about is the overall storage space. AAA games are getting bigger and bigger and this "magic" SSD on the PS5 which somehow supposedly makes it as powerful as the Series X will fill up quickly.
 

TUROK

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See, you are already way misinformed.
When you open up Unreal Engine you will mostly develop for all platforms in a similar way and tweak quality settings for a long time until your performance target is reached on all platforms. Do you really think that devs manually move their trillion bits manually around in most games to achieve max sequential speeds? That's not the level at which optimization generally occurs.

Devs will deploy their build on the target devkit, see it runs well/much better than on previous consoles and be happy with it, or not, and optimize some more. Don't buy into PR, ever. Moving to SSDs as baseline is great, that doesn't mean that having SSDs as a baseline will magically make games better than they used to be on high end PCs.
Whatever you say, sport.
 

Pallas

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Because many of the people who write for news outlets and are in contact with actual industry-heads might know more than some random xbots on a gaming forum? Just a guess.
That goes both ways though, and it seems JS is only relevant/quoted when he fits certain posters narratives.
 
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CJY

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Damage control on steroids. If there were "all these revolutionary things behind the scenes" why wouldn't they have talked about them?

At the end of the day, it's a weaker system with a faster SSD that may or may not make much of an impact.
Cerny didn't talk about all the revolutionary things? The SSD is what is revolutionary. MS even says it'll be revolutionary. The only issue is that Xbox devs will be developing games for Xbone for another year and PCs with slow mechanical harddrives for the foreseeable future. Lowest common denominator.
 

Journey

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You don't sound all that unbiased yourself, chief.

Everyone has a little bias, it's hard to be completely unbiased, but at least I don't have the responsibility of a game journalist or someone who claims to do unbiased comparisons, such as helping people decide which version of a game to buy, or needs guidance understanding the specs of a console mean in the real world, for that it is EXTREMELY important to be unbiased.

Look, I'm not saying that his analysis won't have depth or truth in it, but it's quite easy to focus on the strengths of one system while at the same time focusing on the weaknesses of the other to highlight your favorite piece of hardware. Not too far into the video and you see how he focuses on the SSD for the PS5 while at the same time focusing on the split memory of the Xbox Series X, and that's what defines bias.

An objective person will focus on the overall picture, will of course point out the weaknesses, but will also point out the advantages which he didn't elaborate on, things like VRS, Ray Tracing advantage, or what it actually means for the first 10GB of the memory having 560GB/s bandwidth, do PC games currently exceed 10GB of usage on a regular basis? so at the end of the day, do we need ALL of 16GB of the memory pool to be full speed when we know that just like the PS4 and Xbox One, some of that memory was reserved for system functions and only about 5GB out of the 8GB was reserved for games, why didn't he consider that instead of averaging the entire pool? because he wants to highlight how overall the PS5 memory is faster, even if it doesn't matter in the real world where not ALL 16GB will be used for games, thus the split pool which is normal in the PC environment.
 
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No shit. Like its crazy that since yesterday there are all these unnamed developers coming out and insisting that what we saw is not what we saw. That someone this 9.2 vs 12.2 TF difference is not going to be noticeable. Hell every single person who has quoted TF number even goes out of their way to quote 10.2 for Sony which is peak with comes crazy fucking overclock that you wouldn't want to run the console at full time. There is so much bullshit being shoveled since yesterday and Schreier is one of the people on the front lines of it. When Microsoft had their shitty reveal of their console it got eviscerated online for it and rightfully so. People saw what they saw and called a duck a duck. The console sucked. Now I am not going to say the PS5 sucks cause it doesn't, but the inability to even point to a 25% gap in power and all the other specs that exist in Microsoft favor is insane to me. I fully understand console warrior bullshit and all that, but we've straight up seen gaming "journalism" going out of their way to do some serious defending of Sony simply because the console is less powerful. They're not even admitting that most of the time. They've flat out spreading the message that the PS5 will defy computer logic and somehow be more powerful than the Xbox Series X and it insanity.

For them it cannot be that the console is weaker and has a kick ass SSD in it. Thats not good enough. They have to go to the ends of the earth and say that this speed of the SSD miraculously offsets all the shortcomings. It makes no damned sense.
I've said it in multiple threads now before we got the info from Sony and after. The SSD in the PS5 is the most important update to next-gen hardware. I firmly believe that the PS5 using the SSD as additional RAM will be the key factor in what may potentially make PS5 games look, feel and be superior graphically to Xbox games. HOWEVER, this advantage is most likely going to be limited to the PS5 first party devs taking full effect of the PS5's advantages. The ability to stream the viewpoint because of the data speed on the PS5 may not be possible on the Xbox One X to the same degree. Maybe it will be able to do similar things with some limitations but third-party devs ALWAYS work to the lowest common denominator and I very firmly believe that the speed of the SSD is far FAR more important than ~2-3 TF of power when it comes to first-party devs maxing HW.

This is not a fanboy or Sony defence post, as things stand currently I'm most likely going to be getting an Xbox SX for Game Pass and Third-Party games because I believe it's likely that they will run better on the XSX. I will give the caveat that this will depend on there being one Xbox exclusive game that I feel I absolutely must play and the cost of the console be damned. I will definitely be getting the PS5 and more than likely I'll get it at launch if there are reviews and information about it speeding up the launch times of PS4 games. I'm hoping there will be a good big PS5 exclusive that I wanna play at launch as well but saving those load times means a lot to me personally.

I would also like to mention that the horsepower of the next-gen consoles is just really awesome all around. I feel like they're both incredible machines that are going to be competing closely with the top-spec PC's to the point I'm probably not seeing much benefit in upgrading my 9-year-old gaming PC. I really may just get the XSX instead of upgrading the PC and I'll be happy with that.

Sony has definitely handled the reveal poorly. As I consider myself educated well enough about the technical side of hardware and technology I felt like the presentation was an awesome kid in a candy shop video. I loved it. I feel like the PS5 has everything devs and gamers could want. Sure I would have loved them to take some more CU's and bump the TF to an equivalent of the XSX. More power is always better. But I think Sony has made a decision about the price point they're aiming for and have made a lot of smart decisions regarding this. I hold judgement on this until we see the announce price of both consoles. As I'm getting older I'm becoming more of an old miser and Sony being considerate about price point makes me happy. I'm not a developer and won't claim to know exactly how this is going to affect things but from what I do understand it will make a big difference.

I honestly believe the speed of the SSD and the system overall (including all the little custom tweaks they've made) makes THAT MUCH of a difference in real-world performance. But, when it comes down to it both consoles will be powerful and I expect the XSX to outpace the PS5 with third party games. If you really can't see the sense the explanation makes then you need to do some research and look at the sort of things that bottleneck developers, the things that certain developers have been doing to get around the bottlenecks in current-gen hardware to make beautiful games and then you might start to understand why the SSD being SO fast will be SO important.

Funnily enough, it kinda feels like the arguing at the moment reminds me of the Gamecube vs PS2 during the sixth generation. Sony has pulled a Gamecube this gen going for the efficiency over brute force approach. The way things come full circle. Ha!
 
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CJY

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That goes both ways though, and it seems JS is only relevant/quoted when he fits certain posters narratives.
Maybe so. I never knew he was Sony bias. I literally know nothing about him other than the fact he writes for Kotaku, which I never read anymore. I actually thought he favoured Xbox truth be told.

I usually just take info at face value and make my own judgements. I don't base a person's words solely on their preceding reputation or what others think of him. I think everything he says in that transcript seems very balanced and well-reasoned and doesn't sound shill-y whatsoever. It's mad some people can have so much vitriol towards someone and yet he still continues.

I have to be honest, I myself don't even know why I didn't like him, because I don't remember anything he said that should give me any reason to hate him. I think it was just herd-mentality...
 

Kacho

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That goes both ways though, and it seems JS is only relevant/quoted when he fits certain posters narratives.
I don’t think anyone is doubting that Jason has hot scoops from time to time. The guy is a legit insider. He’s just desperately trying to keep up the narrative that PS5 is ahkshually more powerful because he feels like he can’t be wrong or something. It’s really weird to see since he’s usually not like this. The dude is Twitter quoting a random ready at dawn person as proof for gods sake.
 

Roxkis_ii

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I’m definitely on Team Sony here, but the defense force stuff right now is pretty bad.

But it’s also extremely entertaining...so keep it up.

This wouldn't even be necessary if Sony put out customer oriented presentation first, then added this road to ps5 after that. It was too much for the average gamer to digest.

It would have saved so much misunderstanding if they didn't use the word boost in conjunction with the clock speed, if their boost doesn't work like traditional clock speed boost people are used to on their pc's.

But that's me assuming people were posting in good faith, when in all likelyhood, they would have misconstrued whatever part they could regardless, sadly.
 
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Chiggs

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This wouldn't even be necessary if Sony put out customer oriented presentation first, then added this road to ps5 after that. It was too much for the average gamer to digest.

It would have saved so much misunderstanding if they didn't use the word boost in conjunction with the clock speed, if their boost doesn't work like traditional clock speed boost people are used to on their pc's.

But that's me assuming people were posting in good faith, when in all likelyhood, they would have misconstrued whatever part they could regardless, sadly.
It’s always fun to watch Mark Cerny, but I agree with you. The presentation was a bit of a mess, and even his nerdy enthusiasm couldn’t quite make a show of it.

PS5 is going to be an incredible machine; that much I know.
 

KiNeMz

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I think this is Sony managing hype levels. They will let the developers do the talking over time. If the PS5 is truly revolutionary,and Devs starting showing the things they can do with it, time will tell. nothing wrong with being under hyped.
 
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Jtibh

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I can see the ps5 pumping out michael bay level games where shit is constantly exploding buildings crumbling effects after effects with no downtime in between due to its insane speed.
And you will be exhausted in the first hour.

Enough talk of flops.

I want to see the games. I dont recall a single hardware release without some real time tech demo or fake and look what we got.
Xbox is letting df do the dirty work and sony is putting the most robotic person on screen with cardboard shadow puppets what an embarrassment.

They both should just put together a never before seen show and put it on netflix.
Everyone is sitting home on their asses glued to the tv anyways.
 

Bo_Hazem

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Salalah, Oman
?? Not saying everyone on GAF doesn't know their elbow from their knee, but some of the shit that's been spouted from some, and not even in jest has been ridiculous.

I have NEVER liked JS, but what he is saying is being supported by practically everyone - devs, DF, NXGamer, etc., then you have people on here comparing this to a PS4 vs. Xbone situation. I would rather take the side of the journalists, reporters and people who actually put their reputation on line to bring us information.
Just for fun, Challenger Demon 840hp with semi slicks vs Nissan GT-R 600hp with regular tires (watch all rounds)



They stop before the turn so Demon doesn't hit the wall or go off track or smash the GT-R.

Teraflops = Horespower

It's not the whole story.
 
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Pallas

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I don’t think anyone is doubting that Jason has hot scoops from time to time. The guy is a legit insider. He’s just desperately trying to keep up the narrative that PS5 is ahkshually more powerful because he feels like he can’t be wrong or something. It’s really weird to see since he’s usually not like this. The dude is Twitter quoting a random ready at dawn person as proof for gods sake.
Oh I know he’s a legit insider but I meant the overall animosity toward him And Kotaku in general here on GAF. It just seems like people forget what he and that site stand for when his insider info fit their narratives.
 

DryvBy

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So you are upset that some people have been telling us about this and pointing out that the TF difference may not be as big as some wants us to believe it is? ... it's not like most PC gamers had cards this fast, let alone with ray tracing that they actually use (even the series x struggle to run minecraft with path-tracing at 1080p).

Obviously this is no coincidence, that whole teraflop thing has been in the air for a while, we need to have context for it... there is always a chance that the difference is actually bigger than expected, so we shall see how it turns out, I wish you best of luck.
DF, DryvBy and Mark Cerny all said TFLOPS isn't a good measurement for performance. It's flawed and makes people look foolish.

The reason? Simply you can make a 12TFLOP suck. That's why I only care about pure specs.




Vs.

 

Chiggs

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Seems like a lot of people only believe DF or devs when it fits their narrative. lol
I think they’re massively overrated. They found a niche and I credit them for that. I wouldn’t mind seeing them get some competition.

Please note that overrated doesn’t mean bad.
 

devilNprada

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Chasing one pipedream after the next eh?

I don't get people here on GAF right now. It's so embarassing. I feel like people posting threads about how the PS5 might be better than the XBox due to the SSD primarily have to be 14 years old, right between beind a child and trying to find their own place in the world, hence console warring.
I get supporting your favorite thing, but what's happening here is just embarassing for any outsider looking in. I have no horse in this race, I just sold my PS4 a couple days ago because most games I'm interested in end up coming to PC anyways, and I never had an XBox. I'm also a dev and have a pretty good PC. I don't know much about hardware architecture in its entirety because I don't need to, but I know way more about actual game dev than most of you. Being misinformed or getting things wrong isn't what irks me at the time, it's the sheer willful ignorance. Why are so many here eager to prove themselves fools by acting as if they knew anything about everything because they watched some YouTube video, and then ignore valid points or misrepresent them? How can anyone have such an ego, as a grown adult none the less? No practical experience, no professional education, but at least you read some Tweets and watched some videos that make up for it!

First Teraflops are everything, now Teraflops don't matter because some noteable people said that SSDs are great. Cool. 99% of you don't know jack shit how game dev works, and that's fine, but please don't act as if you did. NVMe M2 SSDs have existed for PCs for years and while it is true that a closed system will be more efficient overall and they are doing intruiging things with their hardware, acting as if some SSD will revolutionize gaming as you know it is laughable and any PC gamer that owns a good PC will tell you that. I've seen posts here arguing that SSDs will somehow enable new levels of physics and mechanics.. it won't.
It will primarily make devs not care as much about loading optimization/compression. That's the gist of it. It's important, console peasants are going to be happy and that's what matters.

It's just a piece of tech, when it comes to game performance the XBox just performs better overall. That doesn't mean the PS5 will suck or doesn't have some advantages. It's just how the RTX 2080 Super is a bit better than the RTX 2080. You get a couple more frames per second, a couple more particles, a couple more pixels and that is it. You don't hear people arguing here, trying to spin the fact that the RTX 2080 consumes less energy as meaning that it will be stronger than the Super variant because less TDP means you might be able to OC more.

Invest in ideas, in ideals, in commitments and skills. Don't invest in PR talk and a bit of plastic and metal.
Play your games, if you want to, inform yourselves as much as is adequate, be willing to learn and otherwise just shut up.
PS5 will be great, XBox will be great. Games are, to your standards, also going to be great.

Thanks.

EDIT:
It's funny how Schreier says "all those people don't know about hardware" (with which I agree) and then proceeds to say that HW specs amount to nothing unless tested. HW specs are HW specs. It's physics. Just complex ones. Us not understanding all the complex interactions and therefore getting things wrong (which testing might show) doesn't mean specs become invalid.
But there are many people who feel the switch is the best gaming device out there.
 

ethomaz

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I think this is Sony managing hype levels. They will let the developers do the talking over time. If the PS5 is truly revolutionary,and Devs starting showing the things they can do with it, time will tell. nothing wrong with being under hyped.
Games always talk for themselves.
 

LittleBusters

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This is why Microsoft is building up their first party. They know Sony has a lot of 3rd party devs in their pocket for whatever reasons are going to hail PS5 as 'revolutionary' and not put in any effort on porting to XSX. So Microsoft has to take matter into their own hands and have a knockout 1st party lineup. Hopefully CD Projekt Red doesn't drink the kool-aid.
 

Foxbat

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I don’t think anyone is doubting that Jason has hot scoops from time to time. The guy is a legit insider. He’s just desperately trying to keep up the narrative that PS5 is ahkshually more powerful because he feels like he can’t be wrong or something. It’s really weird to see since he’s usually not like this. The dude is Twitter quoting a random ready at dawn person as proof for gods sake.
Follow the money. Always follow the money.

JS was biased towards Sony, but he at least made an attempt at seeming as if he was impartial. For whatever reason, he apparently got burned at MS, and now no longer needs to keep up the charade.

JS is shilling for the PS5, because when it comes to consoles, Sony is all he's got as far contacts and insiders. Therefore he needs the PS5 to do well. It means more opportunities for him.
 

MiyazakiHatesKojima

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DF, DryvBy and Mark Cerny all said TFLOPS isn't a good measurement for performance. It's flawed and makes people look foolish.

The reason? Simply you can make a 12TFLOP suck. That's why I only care about pure specs.




Vs.

Yo!!!

This is crazy :O
 

DryvBy

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It's a math equation features the numbers of cores times the frequency times number of boxes divided by a trillion (or billion, too busy playing MLB lol). And I'm not even saying the Xbox isn't more powerful but this TFLOP stuff is hilarious with people trying to act like they understand it.
 

MiyazakiHatesKojima

PC Gaming is better than console gaming. Also, Death Stranding is pure trash. Please pray for me.
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It's a math equation features the numbers of cores times the frequency times number of boxes divided by a trillion (or billion, too busy playing MLB lol). And I'm not even saying the Xbox isn't more powerful but this TFLOP stuff is hilarious with people trying to act like they understand it.
Like I said, it's a masterful marketing scheme by the Xbox Team. I gotta hand it to them, kudos for shifting the momentum to their side!
 

DryvBy

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Like I said, it's a masterful marketing scheme by the Xbox Team. I gotta hand it to them, kudos for shifting the momentum to their side!
I mean, it won't last when all they show is more Forza, Halo and Gears again with some indie art games. And I hope I'm 100% wrong on this. I'd like MS to make sure Sony keeps their game development up on top.
 
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MiyazakiHatesKojima

PC Gaming is better than console gaming. Also, Death Stranding is pure trash. Please pray for me.
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I mean, it won't last when all they show is more Forza, Halo and Gears again with some indie art games. And I hope I'm 100% wrong on this. I'd like MS to make sure Sony keeps their game development up on top.
I think Sony for the first time in a long time are being pushed to a corner, and this will force them to innovate and push the quality of their brand and exclusives even more.
 

DaMonsta

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DF, DryvBy and Mark Cerny all said TFLOPS isn't a good measurement for performance. It's flawed and makes people look foolish.

The reason? Simply you can make a 12TFLOP suck. That's why I only care about pure specs.




Vs.

Sure flops aren’t a good measure when you are comparing different cards.

But when you are measuring similar cards made by the same manufacturer using the same technology then yes flops are a good measure of comparison.
 

Filippos

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the people I've been talking to over the past few months and the past couple years who are actually working on the PlayStation have pretty much unanimously all said:
ah, so they only work on PlayStation. So These are all Sony devs. Well, of course they say that. Lol.
 

Filippos

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Cerny didn't talk about all the revolutionary things? The SSD is what is revolutionary. MS even says it'll be revolutionary. The only issue is that Xbox devs will be developing games for Xbone for another year and PCs with slow mechanical harddrives for the foreseeable future. Lowest common denominator.
Not really. They did the same with Xbox 360 and Xbox one. They had different teams working on their games. There were two different versions for forza horizon developed by different teams and the difference were huge.
 

HawarMiran

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Don't you worry guys. Sony will show games and that will do the talking. I am pretty sure of that. Soon we will read Youtube comments again where people cry about exclusivity or ask "does this come to PC???" and someone will answer " no it is a Sony exclusive developed by a Sony studio" and after that the first guy simply replies with "😔". 😂😂😂😂
 

Filippos

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Chasing one pipedream after the next eh?

I don't get people here on GAF right now. It's so embarassing. I feel like people posting threads about how the PS5 might be better than the XBox due to the SSD primarily have to be 14 years old, right between beind a child and trying to find their own place in the world, hence console warring.
I get supporting your favorite thing, but what's happening here is just embarassing for any outsider looking in. I have no horse in this race, I just sold my PS4 a couple days ago because most games I'm interested in end up coming to PC anyways, and I never had an XBox. I'm also a dev and have a pretty good PC. I don't know much about hardware architecture in its entirety because I don't need to, but I know way more about actual game dev than most of you. Being misinformed or getting things wrong isn't what irks me at the time, it's the sheer willful ignorance. Why are so many here eager to prove themselves fools by acting as if they knew anything about everything because they watched some YouTube video, and then ignore valid points or misrepresent them? How can anyone have such an ego, as a grown adult none the less? No practical experience, no professional education, but at least you read some Tweets and watched some videos that make up for it!

First Teraflops are everything, now Teraflops don't matter because some noteable people said that SSDs are great. Cool. 99% of you don't know jack shit how game dev works, and that's fine, but please don't act as if you did. NVMe M2 SSDs have existed for PCs for years and while it is true that a closed system will be more efficient overall and they are doing intruiging things with their hardware, acting as if some SSD will revolutionize gaming as you know it is laughable and any PC gamer that owns a good PC will tell you that. I've seen posts here arguing that SSDs will somehow enable new levels of physics and mechanics.. it won't.
It will primarily make devs not care as much about loading optimization/compression. That's the gist of it. It's important, console peasants are going to be happy and that's what matters.

It's just a piece of tech, when it comes to game performance the XBox just performs better overall. That doesn't mean the PS5 will suck or doesn't have some advantages. It's just how the RTX 2080 Super is a bit better than the RTX 2080. You get a couple more frames per second, a couple more particles, a couple more pixels and that is it. You don't hear people arguing here, trying to spin the fact that the RTX 2080 consumes less energy as meaning that it will be stronger than the Super variant because less TDP means you might be able to OC more.

Invest in ideas, in ideals, in commitments and skills. Don't invest in PR talk and a bit of plastic and metal.
Play your games, if you want to, inform yourselves as much as is adequate, be willing to learn and otherwise just shut up.
PS5 will be great, XBox will be great. Games are, to your standards, also going to be great.

Thanks.

EDIT:
It's funny how Schreier says "all those people don't know about hardware" (with which I agree) and then proceeds to say that HW specs amount to nothing unless tested. HW specs are HW specs. It's physics. Just complex ones. Us not understanding all the complex interactions and therefore getting things wrong (which testing might show) doesn't mean specs become invalid.
One of the best posts on GAF in a long time.
Thank you.