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Jason Schreier : What I actually said on Kotaku Splitscreen about the PlayStation 5's specs

Enigmagamer

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You guys are falling for a false narritive. You have two gpus built from the same architecture and you are convinced that the gpu with more CUs doesnt have an advantage and that storage an i/o are more important?

Punching above its weight is nonsense. The CUs in both systems are likely identical.
Yeah I don't know what people are talking about its the same tech . People talking about Ps5 is revolutionary then so is the Xbox Series X Smh
 

Journey

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Yeah I don't know what people are talking about its the same tech . People talking about Ps5 is revolutionary then so is the Xbox Series X Smh

Exactly! just because the PS5 SSD is faster, doesn't mean the same level design idea can't be implemented for XSX, what's instant or takes a second or 2 on PS5, will be a second or two and 2 or 4 seconds on XSX, both solutions are LIGHTYEARS faster than what we have today, PS5 is just faster still.

Also, some of the tech that was added to the SSD on PS5 to speed up the codec will be handled in software by new techniques available in the new DX12 Ultimate solution via their Sampler Feedback.
 
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MrRenegade

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No shit. Like its crazy that since yesterday there are all these unnamed developers coming out and insisting that what we saw is not what we saw. That someone this 9.2 vs 12.2 TF difference is not going to be noticeable. Hell every single person who has quoted TF number even goes out of their way to quote 10.2 for Sony which is peak with comes crazy fucking overclock that you wouldn't want to run the console at full time. There is so much bullshit being shoveled since yesterday and Schreier is one of the people on the front lines of it. When Microsoft had their shitty reveal of their console it got eviscerated online for it and rightfully so. People saw what they saw and called a duck a duck. The console sucked. Now I am not going to say the PS5 sucks cause it doesn't, but the inability to even point to a 25% gap in power and all the other specs that exist in Microsoft favor is insane to me. I fully understand console warrior bullshit and all that, but we've straight up seen gaming "journalism" going out of their way to do some serious defending of Sony simply because the console is less powerful. They're not even admitting that most of the time. They've flat out spreading the message that the PS5 will defy computer logic and somehow be more powerful than the Xbox Series X and it insanity.

For them it cannot be that the console is weaker and has a kick ass SSD in it. Thats not good enough. They have to go to the ends of the earth and say that this speed of the SSD miraculously offsets all the shortcomings. It makes no damned sense.
What will that - you say - 25% difference makes? Nothing. A game is either enjoyable or not. And that imagined difference won't make it enjoyable if the game is trash. This is MS vs Sony doing their flip flop. MS and Sony talk behind the scenes. Look, we go down this time ok? OK. Next generation is yours. Ok.
Meanwhile: clueless people slitting each others' throats over numbers, when they don't know anything about the underlying tech. Especially when first iteration of nextgen games couldn't use the hardware at it's peak because getting used to it takes time.
 

-kb-

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Nope nope...

Has nothing to do with the theoretical teraflop performance at all, what people are talking about is the difference of having more dedicated compute units available to do the task.

A multi-core CPU will perform much better than a single core CPU of the same architecture clocked higher when it comes to multithreaded tasks like enocding video, so think about the same logic applied with compute units. Having more CU's leaves more room for specialized tasks like Ray tracing.

I'll make an analogy that might be oversimplified, but for instance, for specialized tasks, lets say you dedicated 24 compute units for the main graphics pipeline (Rasterization, poligons, AA, AF) that leaves you with 12 compute units to use for Ray Tracing and everything else.

On Xbox Series X, if you dedicated 32 compute units for rasterization, that leaves you with 20 compute units for Ray Tracing and everything else. Do you see the difference? having more compute units gives you this kind of flexibility, aside of the obvious that 20 RDNA 2 CU's would kill just 12 CUs regardless of the 15% frequency drop because we're looking at a difference of 67% in CUs (12 vs 20).
it has everything to do with TFLOPs because the intersection engines run at a multiple of the core clock rate meaning that there performance is influenced by both the CU count and the core clock. Making the performance difference in the RT hardware between the two the same as the performance difference in TFLO

You also don’t dedicate CUs to raytracing it’s part of the entire pipeline and will likely be run across the entire GPU why else would raytracing hardware be in every TMU?.
 
Jan 29, 2019
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I'm not the author claiming XSX has better Ray Tracing, NXGamer said it himself at the end and others have said the same thing. So it's not a question of whether Xbox Series X has better Ray Tracing, because it does, the question is, how much better than the PS5 is XSX at Ray Tracing? we'll find out, but what's certain is, that where Ray Tracing is involved, that difference will grow past the 15% difference in TF.
But is it good enough to be a game changer? That thing had problems running path traced Minecraft 1080p at 30 to 60fps.... it will be better at it, but by how much and if it is a game changer (literally games)... well this is still up in the air, I mean have you seen games like God of War and Ghost of Tushima... on base PS4? If you are selective with your raytracing it will be usable and you'll probably get very similar results.
 

Tesseract

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anything is possible when you get the flops up on the hertz and you use those number operators on them to do things anything can be done

believing in youself ~ kojima
 
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JLMC469

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Here's my 2 cents. I think the consoles are powerful (give the edge go the Series X), fast (give the edge to the PS5) and innovative. I am extremely excited to see what Microsoft's and SONY's 1st party devs create. The specs are really impressive if you ask me.

That being said, we are probably going to have to wait a couple of years to see what they are truly capable of though (as is with every gen).
 

Journey

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it has everything to do with TFLOPs because the intersection engines run at a multiple of the core clock rate meaning that there performance is influenced by both the CU count and the core clock. Making the performance difference in the RT hardware between the two the same as the performance difference in TFLO

You also don’t dedicate CUs to raytracing it’s part of the entire pipeline and will likely be run across the entire GPU why else would raytracing hardware be in every TMU?.



 
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Swaganizonda

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Why can't you all just accept things remain like today:

- sony at a more sensible price with the best games

- Microsoft all out on high end hardware and giving us pearls like Crackdown 3
But now you have shinny new hardware to start the cycle all over again.
 
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Journey

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Your ignoring AMDs own patent on their solution lol. _rogame obviously knows more then AMD about how their RT works.
I missed nothing, the frequency also influences, but we're looking at a just 22% increment in frequency vs a 45% increase in CU, so overall, Xbox Series X has the advantage no matter how you slice it. That explains why MS was showing off full path tracing, the purest and most computational form of Ray Tracing, while Sony focused on Global Illumination.
 

-kb-

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I missed nothing, the frequency also influences, but we're looking at a just 22% increment in frequency vs a 45% increase in CU, so overall, Xbox Series X has the advantage no matter how you slice it. That explains why MS was showing off full path tracing, the purest and most computational form of Ray Tracing, while Sony focused on Global Illumination.
Yeah, if its linear to the clocks and CUs the difference is the same as the TFLOPs which is 18%.
 
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Journey

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Yeah, if its linear to the clocks and CUs the difference is the same as the TFLOPs which is 18%.

If you ignore the fact that Ray Tracing performance is bound to CUs, but whatever helps you sleep better. I mean it's not like there won't be third party games that use ray tracing, so we'll come back to this topic when those first head to heads appear, perhaps you'll have other excuses to bring up when you start losing sleep again watching better performance on XSX lol.
 
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-kb-

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If you ignore the fact that Ray Tracing performance is bound to CUs, but whatever helps you sleep better. I mean it's not like there won't be third party games that use ray tracing, so we'll come back to this topic when those first head to heads appear, perhaps you'll have other excuses to bring up when you start losing sleep again watching better performance on XSX lol.
Can you should me some proof that its bound to CUs and not CUs and clocks?, or are you merely parroting the opinion of someone else that you don't even understand?.
 

LordOfChaos

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Man I was sure that awful thread link was going to be to me




So everybody's now seeing this spec sheet and they see PS5, 10.2 teraflops, and Xbox Series X, 12 teraflops. And it's like, oh my god, the Xbox is more powerful than the PlayStation. But meanwhile, the people I've been talking to over the past few months and the past couple years who are actually working on the PlayStation have pretty much unanimously all said: This thing is a beast. This thing is one of the coolest pieces of hardware that we've ever seen, we've ever used before. There are so many things here that are revolutionary, so many behind-the-scenes tools and features, APIs, and all sorts of other stuff that is way beyond my scope of comprehension. This is why I'm a reporter, and not an engineer.

Pretty much what I described him saying, yet this thread went SUPER well, lol

 
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RPSleon

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I mean I guess I see what they saying. I have a 750 horse power car, you have a 650, but your car gets faster between point a and b then mine... for whatever secret sauce.
Torque, gearing, weight.
A bus can have a 7l 290bhp engine, while a car can have a 1l 68bhp engine. Those specs alone dont tell you much about how that power is used. The car is still way faster but would make a terrible bus.
 

cryogenic7

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So it's hard not to blame Playstation's new boss for the mis communication, if the hardware in the PS5 has some hidden benefits show them off and fast....
Most people that buy consoles DO NOT, repeat DO NOT read forums like this. They have zero idea what a terraflop is, nor do they care. Sony don't need to show anything regarding hardware, they need to show the games, and once they do people WILL be sold. Sony has the better all around hardware. They know it, and the proof will be plain to all once the games and benchmarks are released. Mark this post down. The naysayers WILL be eating crow. If MS had the hardware specs Sony has, I'd be saying MS has the better all around hardware. Also, I am not a Sony fanboy, I don't care about, nor do I have any loyalty to one company or another.
 
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The GPU with the highest TF count does not need defending.
However, we can argue what the actual real life differences will be (higher resolutions/frame rates? better lighting? both? to what extent?). Will some of the PS5's features alleviate some of the differences? or will it in fact be worse than what we know of the specs so far?

We just know different things about each machines, a 1 to 1 comparison is not easy at this point... By example, Cerny said in presentation about the SSD that the chip that handles decompression can process output up to 21GB/secons (6 to 9 typical), MS claims they have better compression schemes, but they also claim that the SSD's controller can output "only" 6GB/s. What happens to performance when the GPU requires more than 10GB on the series x?
GTA V when the resolution was the same, not to mention the 900p vs 1080p threads.
What you did not see the resolution difference? The pixels on a 1080p TV are quite visible, anything sub-native will show scaling artifacts that are visible (assuming you pay attention).
Most people that buy consoles DO NOT, repeat DO NOT read forums like this. They have zero idea what a terraflop is, nor do they care.
They don't but if their teen buddy tells them that the PS5's unvealing was full of 10.3TF lies and that the other console has sex in its name they will get it.
 

molly14

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They are not targeting the same price point, so obviously the series x is going to be more powerful, probably will be an
extra 100, so stop this pointless never ending argument about Specs..,
 

checkcola

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I own a PS4 and have always been more a user of a Sony ecosystem than the Xbox's, but man, this thing has not looked good from my pov. Xbox message and promises seem more easily understood than Sony's. Think a lot of people bought a lot of games on the PS4, so they are part of a closed audience. However, my feeling is, the average person is willing to jump to the other side because a casual player is just interested in current games. Xbox was not going to get caught in the weeds like they did with the Xbone.
 
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Woodchipper

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Holy dog shit. If this is legit I truly feel sorry for, and empathize with all the crazy Xbox fanboys who had finally found some joy in their lives, drooling over those tflop numbers.
 

T-Square

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so Klaus is at my campsite and has been for 2 days. if I talk to him both options are for him to move in, I can't back out of the dialog. I have to quit without saving to keep from inviting him. I do not want this guy here. anyone know if he will leave or how to make him leave?
 
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V4skunk

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But they showed the RT Minecraft using Series X. It's coming.
Minecraft isn't very demanding though.
You should check out Quake2 RT because it's very similar to Minecraft RT.
Don't expect that level of RT in graphically demanding games. It will be used very selectively for performance.
 

Sacred

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Chasing one pipedream after the next eh?

I don't get people here on GAF right now. It's so embarassing. I feel like people posting threads about how the PS5 might be better than the XBox due to the SSD primarily have to be 14 years old, right between beind a child and trying to find their own place in the world, hence console warring.
I get supporting your favorite thing, but what's happening here is just embarassing for any outsider looking in. I have no horse in this race, I just sold my PS4 a couple days ago because most games I'm interested in end up coming to PC anyways, and I never had an XBox. I'm also a dev and have a pretty good PC. I don't know much about hardware architecture in its entirety because I don't need to, but I know way more about actual game dev than most of you. Being misinformed or getting things wrong isn't what irks me at the time, it's the sheer willful ignorance. Why are so many here eager to prove themselves fools by acting as if they knew anything about everything because they watched some YouTube video, and then ignore valid points or misrepresent them? How can anyone have such an ego, as a grown adult none the less? No practical experience, no professional education, but at least you read some Tweets and watched some videos that make up for it!

First Teraflops are everything, now Teraflops don't matter because some noteable people said that SSDs are great. Cool. 99% of you don't know jack shit how game dev works, and that's fine, but please don't act as if you did. NVMe M2 SSDs have existed for PCs for years and while it is true that a closed system will be more efficient overall and they are doing intruiging things with their hardware, acting as if some SSD will revolutionize gaming as you know it is laughable and any PC gamer that owns a good PC will tell you that. I've seen posts here arguing that SSDs will somehow enable new levels of physics and mechanics.. it won't.
It will primarily make devs not care as much about loading optimization/compression. That's the gist of it. It's important, console peasants are going to be happy and that's what matters.

It's just a piece of tech, when it comes to game performance the XBox just performs better overall. That doesn't mean the PS5 will suck or doesn't have some advantages. It's just how the RTX 2080 Super is a bit better than the RTX 2080. You get a couple more frames per second, a couple more particles, a couple more pixels and that is it. You don't hear people arguing here, trying to spin the fact that the RTX 2080 consumes less energy as meaning that it will be stronger than the Super variant because less TDP means you might be able to OC more.

Invest in ideas, in ideals, in commitments and skills. Don't invest in PR talk and a bit of plastic and metal.
Play your games, if you want to, inform yourselves as much as is adequate, be willing to learn and otherwise just shut up.
PS5 will be great, XBox will be great. Games are, to your standards, also going to be great.

Thanks.

EDIT:
It's funny how Schreier says "all those people don't know about hardware" (with which I agree) and then proceeds to say that HW specs amount to nothing unless tested. HW specs are HW specs. It's physics. Just complex ones. Us not understanding all the complex interactions and therefore getting things wrong (which testing might show) doesn't mean specs become invalid.
This sums it up 100% and it's what I've been saying. There isn't a secret sauce that is going to make up 1000 extra shaders on the GPU or raw horsepower. SSDs will make the game more efficient and load slightly faster, but that's it. There are RDNA 2 features on both GPUs, so no difference , and Sony is using a variable clock speed because they know gamers care about the TF numbers, otherwise it would just be at the 2GHz base clock. You can spin it anyway you want, but when real world tests come out there will be alot of crow to go around.
 

Elder Legend

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God I hate Jason Schrier with a passion. Sure, his good at his work but goddamn his a horrible person. He can't even argue on twitter properly and when he gets proven wrong he blocks people because he knows he got wrekt. Fuck this POS oh and fuck Kotaku too. Miserable fucking shitheads who cry about the most retarded shit that doesn't even make any sense or matter in any shape or form.
 

njean777

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Initially, I thought it was just trolls having fun, now it’s become sad and pathetic.

Xbox Series X is more powerful, get over it you pathetic shills and fanboys.
They won't, they will defend Sony till the death just as Xbox fanboys would MS. They try to pull anything that can give them an edge but when it is right in front of them they don't want to believe. The XSX is more powerful than the PS5, nothing they say or try to imagine with mental gymnastics will change that.
 

Romulus

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Let's save this post for future scrutiny 😉
Please do. Ps4 had a 40% GPU advantage that lead to 900p vs 1080p gate most of the generation. Lol. Since then, dynamic resolution has has become a thing, combined with even less of a difference between ps5 and XSX. We'll need digital foundary to tell us the differences so that people can blow it out of proportion. Suddenly everyone will think dips to 1800p vs 4k is revelatory.
 
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Hobbygaming

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They won't, they will defend Sony till the death just as Xbox fanboys would MS. They try to pull anything that can give them an edge but when it is right in front of them they don't want to believe. The XSX is more powerful than the PS5, nothing they say or try to imagine with mental gymnastics will change that.
Some will be disappointed at how negligible the difference is though
 
Jan 29, 2019
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Also, some of the tech that was added to the SSD on PS5 to speed up the codec will be handled in software by new techniques available in the new DX12 Ultimate solution via their Sampler Feedback.
The PS5 handles the SSD transfer encoding/decoding of data completely in hardware... That brings me to the whole idea that MS has an advantage with anything DirectX, I never made a game, but I noticed that the really well optimized games these days run on Vulkan (just look at the new Doom game, I would never have thought a game that looks like this would run on mid-range hardware), the point is not benefits for one or another API, just that if the hardware in either machines support a feature the platform holder will find a way to grant developers full access to it that is convenient and performs very well.

I would not expect much in therms of difference in performance which will force Sony and MS to compete on content, unless Sony did not include any AI hardware in their design.... which would be surprising.
 

Pallas

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it is amusing to see some "fans" angry that developers like ps5 more than xsx 😂😬
Nice episode
I agree but it’s also hilarious to see some “fans” to do mental gymnastics about the power differences and downplay it.

They cling to those developer words(which honestly it seems like it’s first party developers or indie devs) like it’s the last drop of water in a desert.
 
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Rightisright

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They are not targeting the same price point, so obviously the series x is going to be more powerful, probably will be an
extra 100, so stop this pointless never ending argument about Specs..,
Why should it be more expensive than PS5?
They have the same optical drive, same RAM, same power supply, same plastic case, same shipping costs, and same CPUs.
Only difference is that the XSX will have a 20% larger die for the extra compute units, while Sony has a more expensive SSD, and with the extra heat from the 2.23ghz GPU, they should require a better cooling solution than XSX.
So the extra cost of the GPU would be around $25-30 for the XSX. The tech involved in getting the PS5 SSD to 5.5gb is alot more than the XSXs SSD at 2.5gb. That will easily match the $25-30 of the XSX GPU.
Add to that the cooling system, and the lower yields by pushing the clock so high, and the PS5 will be at best the same price as the XSX.
I expect they will launch at the same price.
 
Mar 23, 2018
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Exactly! just because the PS5 SSD is faster, doesn't mean the same level design idea can't be implemented for XSX, what's instant or takes a second or 2 on PS5, will be a second or two and 2 or 4 seconds on XSX, both solutions are LIGHTYEARS faster than what we have today, PS5 is just faster still.

Also, some of the tech that was added to the SSD on PS5 to speed up the codec will be handled in software by new techniques available in the new DX12 Ultimate solution via their Sampler Feedback.
Well sony claimed instant loading times, so what's 2x slower then instant exactly.
 

Sosokrates

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This is a case of jason reporting on things which are not there, no one is saying the xsx is "way more powerful" they are saying its more powerful, which it is...
Reactions like from jason and other sony extremists is the biggest amount of denial and mental gymnastics ever.

Relax ps5 is still a beast and will have great and amazing looking games.
 
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Dec 29, 2018
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Let's save this post for future scrutiny 😉
Are you sure you want to save that post mate?

In some games the differences between PS4 Pro and One X are negligible already and that raw power gap is much wider than Series X and PS5. Also you do know that dynamic resolution is actually a thing right? This time the raw power gap will be even closer.

Good luck with your post for future scrutiny. You're gonna need it.
 
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