Support NeoGAF

[T-I-N-M-A-N dX]

If it’s as easy to develop for as Cerny said in the presentation I’m sure devs do love it and it would be superior to work on. Less work is a great advantage for a developer ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[-Troid-]

All this bickering and denial was fun for a bit but now it's getting sad and annoying. PS fans should just accept that they won't have the most technically impressive system and enjoy the games anyways; if it really is about the games.

Ah fuck who am I kidding this shits gonna last longer than the pandemic at this rate.

 

[existensmaximum]

There is no Dual GPU, no Power of the Cloud, no Secret Sauce.

Mark Cerny detailed the PS5’s clear performance advantages with regards to the SSD and moving data around the system. I can understand some having difficulty deciphering this. But NX Gamer did a great job putting it into layman’s terms.

These performances advantages are understood by devs and they will have already benchmarked PS5 width their upcoming titles.

Let’s be clear. XSX’s (approx) 15% GPU advantage will, theoretically, allow them to push 15% higher resolutions. We’ll have to see how hard forthcoming games push the GPU’s. Furthermore, many devs may opt for dynamic resolutions to ensure there are no performance drops.

Let’s also be clear and state PS5’s (approx) 100% SSD throughput advantage cannot be matched by XSX. Of course to fully maximise this a game will need to be designed from the ground-up around PS5.

I'm thinking they will both be plenty powerful to push 4k60? Or course the Xbox could have some more eye-candy (and RT) for multiplats compared to PS5.

 

[KlickKlack]

e

Well, why the fuck haven't they communicated them yet?

external power supply... maybe

 

[Alex88]

The core components of a computer are the CPU, GPU and the RAM / bandwidth.

These are all in the Xbox’s favour and no amount of little tweaks on the side can make up for that.

This is incorrect in the console space and demonstrates a misunderstanding of how games are developed.

Games are literally designed around the performance of the HDD/SSD. Entire game worlds are designed around these limitations.

Crawling through crevices and climbing cliffs in Uncharted 4 & God of War? That was because they needed time to load the next game locations.

Spider-Man’s maximin swinging speed? That was because the HDD couldn’t stream assets any quicker.

Repeated track & building textures in GT Sport? That’s because the HDD cannot stream them quick enough.

Why couldn’t you fly on mech dinosaurs in Horizon Zero Dawn? Because the HDD couldn’t stream the game world quick enough.

The list goes on and on. It’s a shame because devs are already producing assets in ultra high resolution. But on this current gen the only time we see their work is in photo modes and cutscenes.

 

[KlickKlack]

fa

The core components of a computer are the CPU, GPU and the RAM / bandwidth.

These are all in the Xbox’s favour and no amount of little tweaks on the side can make up for that.

facts since 20 years.....

 

[Foamy]

I don't believe in:

The tooth fairy
Santa Claus
The Easter bunny
Gaming console secret sauce

 

[JLMC469]

This just got pathetic. Why is he defending the PS5? Shouldn’t SONY communicate better? This is just like MS last gen. Horribly messaging, backtracking and putting out fires.

 

[DonF]

I have a laptop that I got in 2013, the thing was as slow as molasses, I was ready to throw it to the garbage, but I wanted to save money, so I went and got it a brand new ssd and the fastest ram it supported. The thing revived! It works perfectly it runs smooth af, it boots instantly, programs load asap, chrome works flawlessly, but! It still lags in games.

I believe that this is the "revolution" of the ps5 and xsx.

Thanks to the on board storage, we are going to see things load soooo freaking fast, like close to no boot times, no load times ...this are concepts we haven't heard since the SNES days.

The switch to faster storage is a revolution, but it won't make up for the lack of raw power on the ps5

 

[Verchod]

Yeah sure, We believe you.

 

[Nikana]

Is Sony trying to pull an apple and make claims and just hope the fanbase eats it up?

 

[ethomaz]

It will be really interesting to see the new games

 

[CatLady]

e

external power supply... maybe

That will house a secret dGPU ????

 

[Shin]

Let’s be clear.

Take it easy son, account created yesterday but in full swing since then to defend PlayStation/PS5.
The system will be great regardless of the raw power difference, they have CB under control, a faster SSD, power difference + WWS magic will likely put the end result close to each other.

 

[Lionel Richie]

Jason Schreier is a cautionary tale on the dangers of being an egomaniac on the internet. He spews bullshit, gets caught doing so, blame the company he's uselessly championing and/or gamers at large, then he doubles down on idiocy while simultaneously trying to cover his ass AND shill some more. It's okay Jason, you were wrong. You're not a journalist deity, you're a fucking hack. Accept yourself, embrace it, move on.

 

[Andodalf]

I'm thinking they will both be plenty powerful to push 4k60? Or course the Xbox could have some more eye-candy (and RT) for multiplats compared to PS5.

Per DFs testing, even a 2080 TI can't run at 4k 60 with RT, short of dropping down many other graphical options. It can still look great, but even the XSX won't be 4k/60/Ultra/FullRT. something has to give

 

[Metnut]

Schreier clearly has tons of sources throughout the industry and he’s not afraid to take down developers when they do something wrong. I’m willing to cautiously believe him here.

Excited to see more of what PS5 can do.

 

[Kenpachii]

If he's receiving texts from developers saying that PS5 hardware is superior in ways Sony isn't really mentioning yet, then it could very well be the most exciting

Wouldn't they also break nda by talking with him? why not just give him the full blown spec sheet then?

Aka dude is full of shit.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

I'm thinking they will both be plenty powerful to push 4k60? Or course the Xbox could have some more eye-candy (and RT) for multiplats compared to PS5.

These systems should push 4k/60 no problem.

Xbox X already does 4k/60 for many games and that's a 6tf system using archaic tech.

The key issue for next gen systems not being able to do it is if the devs jam in so much fancy graphics and RT and hair strand effects choking the system.

But hopefully, more games will include 2-3 graphics/performance choices. Pro and X had these kinds of things in games. I'm hoping more devs and games will have these options for console gamers.

 

[existensmaximum]

Per DFs testing, even a 2080 TI can't run at 4k 60 with RT, short of dropping down many other graphical options. It can still look great, but even the XSX won't be 4k/60/Ultra/FullRT. something has to give

Of course they won't be running either ultra or full RT. Even if you can't directly compare Windows PC to consoles.

Or maybe they'll try, and end up at 4k30, what do I know.

All I care about is PS5 exclusives anyway, which I'm sure till be mind-blowing...

 

[Deeper Underground]

Jason Schreier is a cautionary tale on the dangers of being an egomaniac on the internet. He spews bullshit, gets caught doing so, blame the company he's uselessly championing and/or gamers at large, then he doubles down on idiocy while simultaneously trying to cover his ass AND shill some more. It's okay Jason, you were wrong. You're not a journalist deity, you're a fucking hack. Accept yourself, embrace it, move on.

So it’s ok to attack people like a pedantic child because he’s saying things you don’t like? Your post is like a microcosm of every petty attack from an Xbox fanboy over the last few days. I really wish we could sticky this so people know how NOT to post.

I wonder how this forum would be acting if Jason was on the other side and talking about XSX. I’m sure we wouldn’t have nearly the amount of bitching and whining from the usual suspects as we do now.

 

[Mista]

And whats the point of not "communicating" properly?

 

[Kuranghi]

The games aren't going to run on XSX OR PS5 at 2160p@60hz unless they look like Xbone/PS4 games, why does everyone think we'll suddenly hit the output targets consoles couldn't hit for the last two gens?

PS3 and Xbox 360 output 1080p@60hz, but most games are 1080p@30hz.
PS4 Pro and Xbox One X output 2160p@60hz, but most games are 1440p-2160p@30hz.
PS5 and XSX will output 2160p@60hz, but most games won't hit that figure with caveats such as simpler GFX, DRS, VRS, checkerboard upscaling.

If you don't see a massive difference between 1440p, 1800p and 2160p on your 4K display, then it has subpar upscaling or you need glasses. I can tell the difference between 3456x1944 and 3840x2160 on my screen so native resolutions really do matter.

 

[Hobbygaming]

Wouldn't they also break nda by talking with him? why not just give him the full blown spec sheet then?

Aka dude is full of shit.

Why would a developer further put himself/herself at risk by releasing a spec sheet

A journalist that has a flawless track record of inside info is now full of shit?

 

[DESTROYA]

So you're PlayStation then?
Since my joke was an image file, but you are personally attacking me.
Do you really want to keep this up because I can go on all day, I love me some idiots any day anytime.

Neither.
Just stating facts about your lame ass jokes,if you have no life then go for it. I don’t care .

 

[Sosokrates]

I don't recall Mark Cerny being associated with the marketing team at Sony, but if that's what you took away from Mark Cerny's explanation on his design philosophy well then that's unfortunate. You missed out on a lot.

Its not what I took , its what he said, while he is correct that at the same compute performance a higher clock rate is better, higher overall compute is still better at similar clocks.
He was talking this because the xsx has more tflops, he was essentially trying to convince people that a fee extra tflops is not that important, its disingenuous.

If the PS5 was 12.9tflops I can assure his speech would if gone somewhat different.

We will see this in digital foundry's anyway.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

In Cerny's defense, GDC is aimed for educate people, not for PR buzz words. And yes it takes time to listen and even more to understand what the vision for PS5 is.

 

[#Phonepunk#]

In Cerny's defense, GDC is aimed for educate people, not for PR buzz words. And yes it takes time to listen and even more to understand what the vision for PS5 is.

Yes it was a tech demonstration made for devs and engineers

I don’t think it was meant to be a grand reveal for he general public

Schreier and folks are playing dumb on purpose to squeeze controversy out of this non story. They could report the facts but the outrage generates way more buzz

 

[Azelover]

Maybe it has something to do with the interface.

As far as graphics alone go, what they have shown so far shows a tepid jump in quality. I'm gonna be buying one of these consoles for the games. But I'm gonna wait until they get much cheaper. Because I don't think the tecnology itself is worth the speculated price. Not from what I've seen thus far.

 

[Kuranghi]

These systems should push 4k/60 no problem.

Xbox X already does 4k/60 for many games and that's a 6tf system using archaic tech.

The key issue for next gen systems not being able to do it is if the devs jam in so much fancy graphics and RT and hair strand effects choking the system.

Don't you think its being disengenuous to say many when its around 10 out of ~2400 games that run at 4K60? If you remove racing and sports games you have Doom 2016, Titanfall 2, Minecraft, Halo 5, Path of Exile and Super Lucky's Tale. The first two are ultra well optimized engines so definitely an exception, Halo 5 was the system seller and the other 3 have simple art styles or fixed cameras, like racing and sports games.

I severely doubt they will stop increasing the IQ and fidelity of effects this gen just so they can hit 4K60, average punters don't care about framerates and resolutions.

 

[GamerEDM]

i think he is referring to the "secret sauce" of the 36 cu

 

[HawarMiran]

Weren't Xbox guys sucking him off a few days ago and call him the most reliable source in business?

 

[Kuranghi]

Maybe it has something to do with the interface.

As far as graphics alone go, what they have shown so far shows a tepid jump in quality. I'm gonna be buying one of these consoles for the games. But I'm gonna wait until they get much cheaper. Because I don't think the tecnology itself is worth the speculated price. Not from what I've seen thus far.

Were you not impressed with Hellblade 2? I've never seen materials or skin shaders like that before outside CGI videoes.

 

[Kenpachii]

Why would a developer further put himself/herself at risk by releasing a spec sheet

A journalist that has a flawless track record of inside info is now full of shit?

Why would he break nda at all? That's the logic here.

If you are under NDA to not tell anybody about a product u work with, the first thing that comes to my mind is talk about it with a fucking journalist that tweets everything out all day long.

Yea sounds legit.

 

[Gone]

Like what?
This is bullshit.

 

[Laconian Sword]

Sony is probably waiting for Microsoft E3 presenation to be done so they can reveal a Dual GPU + secret sauce + power of the cloud to kill Xbox.
Gotta think outside the box, Marketing is changing, everybody likes plot twist .
Seriously guys, its okay PS5 is less powerful, get over it.

That's some Sun Tzu shit right there.

 

[I Love Rock 'n' Roll]

Yes it was a tech demonstration made for devs and engineers

I don’t think it was meant to be a grand reveal for he general public

Schreier and folks are playing dumb on purpose to squeeze controversy out of this non story. They could report the facts but the outrage generates way more buzz

There were some elements i had to search for in Cerny's speech. I see a clearer picture now but he had to say either less or either more to educate us. I'm sooooo impressed by Mark, he's a killer.

Anyway, we'll know for shure in the next weeks. Is may still the target for the public reveal?

 

[DynamiteCop!]

The old secret GPU under the GPU has reared its head, we DirectX 12 now boys!

 

[GHG]

Yup he communicated about the ssd and sound for an hour. Certainly so much more up their sleeve. "Pretty cool, right guys?"

We need to enter the matrix.

 

[CatLady]

So it’s ok to attack people like a pedantic child because he’s saying things you don’t like? Your post is like a microcosm of every petty attack from an Xbox fanboy over the last few days. I really wish we could sticky this so people know how NOT to post.

I wonder how this forum would be acting if Jason was on the other side and talking about XSX. I’m sure we wouldn’t have nearly the amount of bitching and whining from the usual suspects as we do now.

How dare you accuse anyone of being a fanboy or attacking people because they don't like what was said. You really need to take a look in the mirror.

You've been here 2 whole weeks and already you are one of the most aggressive console warring fanboys on GAF.

 

[martino]

That's some Sun Tzu shit right there.

people are reaching and accepting orwellian logic.

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Sony is probably waiting for Microsoft E3 presenation to be done so they can reveal a Dual GPU + secret sauce + power of the cloud to kill Xbox.
Gotta think outside the box, Marketing is changing, everybody likes plot twist .
Seriously guys, its okay PS5 is less powerful, get over it.

Hahaha.

Oh ya. The past week was a laugh. Suddenly gamers turned into business strategy experts.

MS has to shoot their bullets first, because you cant show a weak SeX after because it would be pointless

Sony knows what they are doing! Let MS go first and then blow them out of the water. MS is desperate, so they will show their weaker system first.

Why show a killer PS5? Sony wants to sell PS4 games and don't want gamers getting influenced by PS5 which will be the most powerful. Sony can wait it out.

lol

And the reason why they waited so long is because THEY had the weaker system and had go dark as long as possible, boosted by influxes of 12-13tf supporters which bought them time for a year.

 

[Handy Fake]

Hahaha.

Oh ya. The past week was a laugh. Suddenly gamers turned into business strategy experts.

MS has to shoot their bullets first, because you cant show a weak SeX after because it would be pointless

Sony knows what they are doing! Let MS go first and then blow them out of the water. MS is desperate, so they will show their weaker system first.

lol

I'm not sure about marketing, but I think Sony is just sticking to their own schedule.
As it is, I refuse to believe Cerny doesn't have a few tricks up his sleeve. Quite excited to be honest as I have no idea what the PS5 is capable of in the real world.

 

[DESTROYA]

It's lame because you didn't get it, but that's a me problem?
I don't have a life apparently but you're the retard that's having issues?
You don't care, yet you're the one that's sour as hell, the reverse psychology is hilarious also

I hear your mom calling you to go pick up your leggos

 

[Endless Fluff]

I don't believe that the devs are necessarily talking about the internal specs. The APU is weaker and the APU does all the heavy lifting, that is a fact. No amount of SSD speeds will compensate for 20% more compute power.

But games could feel different on PS5 because of the game pad (with its force feedback stuff). Maybe Sony has a new Eyetoy and wants to revive the Kinect dream. There are things that could make the gaming experience superior that have nothing to do with graphical prowess... things Sony has yet to talk about.

 

[PocoJoe]

Never ending cycle of people comparing PCs to consoles, which doesnt work and gives wrong assumptions.

butthurt xbox warriors down playing everything as "dont cry xbox is faster nothing else matters!"

Facts are facts, xbox have mildly faster cpu+gpu+ram(partly) on paper, ps5 will have much faster ssd on paper. And maybe other benefits as this reveal clearly wasnt the whole picture.

Facts so far will equal into = Almost same visual appearance that is dependant of gpu/cpu/ram, but ps5 can do things that xbox cant because of the SSD.

But xbots continue to scream like spoiled kids that say "my he-man is the best!".

 

[Shin]

I hear your mom calling you to go pick up your leggos

My mom died 8 months ago of cancer.
It's nice to know that not only are you obsessive with a brand, but you threw out any dignity you might have ever had a human being.

 

[RokkanStoned]

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Never ending cycle of people comparing PCs to consoles, which doesnt work and gives wrong assumptions.

butthurt xbox warriors down playing everything as "dont cry xbox is faster nothing else matters!"

Facts are facts, xbox have mildly faster cpu+gpu+ram(partly) on paper, ps5 will have much faster ssd on paper. And maybe other benefits as this reveal clearly wasnt the whole picture.

Facts so far will equal into = Almost same visual appearance that is dependant of gpu/cpu/ram, but ps5 can do things that xbox cant because of the SSD.

But xbots continue to scream like spoiled kids that say "my he-man is the best!".

So the PS5 5.5 gb/s SSD vs. SeX's 2.4 gb/s SSD is going to the deal breaker in consoles, while the rest of the specs don't matter.

Ya, ok. lol

I'm not a tech programmer, but I never knew an extra 3.1 gb/s SSD is going to be the KO punch in a fight. /s

Only reason why it seems like a big deal is because Cerny pushed it for almost half an hr, along with 3D audio for another 15 min. He basically skimmed through the rest of the spec slides asap.

SeX also has an SSD, and also a 3D audio chip. It also has a slew of other techno babble, which they even did a glossary on their website which includes all kinds of other fancy efficiencies. But nobody really cares because the key power specs are all in favour of SeX.

Going by the MS glossary there's actually more fancy features in SeX over PS5.

 

[Jonsoncao]

Reminds me of this:


Man, this is hilarious. It’s like EXACT switched roles from the start of current gen. Haha can’t believe it.

Wow this guy and Cerny both look like frauds.