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Jeff Grubb: Devs Fawning over PS5. Haven't heard the same praise for XSX, but heard nothing bad

Redlight

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seems like some people were expecting the ~25% extra TF to be the be all and end all and that the praise was all going to go one way.

also the damage control narrative is bizarre, seeing as everything was pointing to MS having the more powerful console for a full year now from everything we were hearing. the idea that Sony, which has absolutely curbstomped MS this gen, is begging some relative nobodies to hype them up is laughable, and again seems like salt from the same people who thought that all everyone was gonna do this gen was jerk off about 12tf
You must've been visiting another board by mistake.

Before the specs reveal all the hot mail was that the PS5 was going to be more powerful than the Series X, likely 13tf plus. We had pigeons and verified developers hinting about puberty. It was a golden age.

In that period teraflops were the only thing worth discussing.

Then the storm clouds. When it became apparent that the PS5 was, at best, 10.2 teraflops and less powerful than the Series X, there was a brief period of relative quiet as most of the forum went into mourning (while quietly working out a new narrative).

Then, guess what?

Well, you'll be amazed, but it turns out that teraflops, GPU and CPU power have no bearing on console performance at all! Only the SSD and I/O specs matter and what's more, everyone knew it all along!

It's a miracle!
 

Ar¢tos

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I does feel more like a desperate pre-emptive damage control rather than an actually good PR/marketing. But hey, I don't blame anyone, all those journalists strive for clicks, views, likes, shares/retweets, comments, they have to make a living, it's all just a business. We'll most likely never get to know who those mysterious "developers" were, what studio/publisher they work for, what games they have been working on at the time, few months from now no one will remember nor care about all those revelations, but as of now guys like Jeff are having their 5min. of fame.





Yeah, people seem to forget both consoles are build by on the exact same AMD solutions/architectures, give or take few customizations here and there, but we already saw that with no less than 4 current-gen systems, where at the end of the day a PC that's simply just more powerful can brute force through all those customizations/optimizations and call it a day. Times of exotic, never seen before, hard to master architectures are long time gone, there's no magic, no secret source in the upcoming consoles like some want to believe, the next-gen consoles will be more or less a closed spec Zen2+RDNA2 PCs, nothing more.

And the game engines themselves are build to support multiple platforms to begin with, the tools are all the same no mater what system your aiming for, the "easier to develop for" argument is only relevant to 1st party engines/games, which again, as Cerny said, the "time to triangle" doesn't mean much, and the devs can still take 5-7 years to make their games, if that's how long it takes to fully materialize their vision of the game.

Bottom line is, it's the exact same start of a new generation like any other, where the upcoming consoles will supposedly allow for new, never seen before, never experienced before, never possible before, unimaginable things, and then when they actually launch the reality strikes hard, really hard.
Yes, consoles are exactly the same as pcs.
Well, except for the unified memory that pcs don't have, the lack of cpu<->gpu latency since they are in the same chip, the direct access to the SSD and lack of ssd virtualization for legacy programs (that need to see a ssd as a HDD) and the much smaller overhead since the OS is designed for gaming and for the fixed hardware and the APIs are also made for the fixed hardware (directx is bloated with useless stuff on pc).

PCs are probably the most inelegant solution for gaming, since only GPUs are made for that purpose, everything else is general purpose. Brute force and ability to change hardware parts is really the reason why PCs get better results, but at a much higher cost.
 

Bumblebeetuna

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You must've been visiting another board by mistake.

Before the specs reveal all the hot mail was that the PS5 was going to be more powerful than the Series X, likely 13tf plus. We had pigeons and verified developers hinting about puberty. It was a golden age.

In that period teraflops were the only thing worth discussing.

Then the storm clouds. When it became apparent that the PS5 was, at best, 10.2 teraflops and less powerful than the Series X, there was a brief period of relative quiet as most of the forum went into mourning (while quietly working out a new narrative).

Then, guess what?

Well, you'll be amazed, but it turns out that teraflops, GPU and CPU power have no bearing on console performance at all! Only the SSD and I/O specs matter and what's more, everyone knew it all along!

It's a miracle!
Never forget how PS5 was supposed to have 15+ TF and 32GB of RAM according to this place 😆
 

whitesugar

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You must've been visiting another board by mistake.

Before the specs reveal all the hot mail was that the PS5 was going to be more powerful than the Series X, likely 13tf plus. We had pigeons and verified developers hinting about puberty. It was a golden age.

In that period teraflops were the only thing worth discussing.

Then the storm clouds. When it became apparent that the PS5 was, at best, 10.2 teraflops and less powerful than the Series X, there was a brief period of relative quiet as most of the forum went into mourning (while quietly working out a new narrative).

Then, guess what?

Well, you'll be amazed, but it turns out that teraflops, GPU and CPU power have no bearing on console performance at all! Only the SSD and I/O specs matter and what's more, everyone knew it all along!

It's a miracle!
not from what i saw. most rumours i saw said the Xbox was going to be the stronger. You also have to consider how confident Xbox was in announcing 12tf so early and quoting the most powerful console line like a mantra - seems to me like they knew early on they would be more powerful. People who thought PS5 was going to be more powerful were always grasping at straws.

And I haven't seen anyone say TFs, CPU and GPU don't matter, but they are not the only thing that matters. None of the praise that the PS5 is getting is even about raw power anyway, it seems to be about things such as ease of development,
 
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Ass of Can Whooping

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PCIE 4. raw specification is higher than PS5 I/O spec... (greater than 7GB/s raw) and doesn't need 12 channels... Both have four lanes. How do you think regular PCIE4 achieves that?
Jason/Jeff never talked about the PS5 being 12+ tflops.

Jeff is some new guy so caution is obvious. But it's always amusing seeing people doubt Jason when his track record couldn't be more spotless
 

Tulipanzo

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Jason/Jeff never talked about the PS5 being 12+ tflops.

Jeff is some new guy so caution is obvious. But it's always amusing seeing people doubt Jason when his track record couldn't be more spotless
Also funny that it's now just Jeff, when we've heard some PS5 praise from several independent sources basically every month.

Sweeney called it "the absolute best hardware that will exist at the end of this year" ffs!
 
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TigerKnee

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You must've been visiting another board by mistake.

Before the specs reveal all the hot mail was that the PS5 was going to be more powerful than the Series X, likely 13tf plus. We had pigeons and verified developers hinting about puberty. It was a golden age.

In that period teraflops were the only thing worth discussing.

Then the storm clouds. When it became apparent that the PS5 was, at best, 10.2 teraflops and less powerful than the Series X, there was a brief period of relative quiet as most of the forum went into mourning (while quietly working out a new narrative).

Then, guess what?

Well, you'll be amazed, but it turns out that teraflops, GPU and CPU power have no bearing on console performance at all! Only the SSD and I/O specs matter and what's more, everyone knew it all along!

It's a miracle!
Not only that, apparently the I/O makes the impossible happen! Look at the UE5 demo!!! IMPOSSIBLE on the Series X!!! (this is going by the response "THIS is next gen!!!" responses in that thread...)
 

longdi

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A more apt comparison would be me running Star Citizen on a standard SSD while on a 2070 and you on an high end HDD with 2080.
nonsense.

more like playing on highly OC 2070S + top-range pcie4 ssd vs 2080Ti + midrange pcie3 ssd
 
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Yes..but not full steam ahead, there were those rumors, no
Some rumors can be completely made up.

Remember the ones about the PS5 getting delayed due to severe overheating problems that would lead Sony to have a RROD situation?

Somebody analyzed those rumors and the writing style is eerily similar to Tim Dogs.
 
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Tulipanzo

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It's not hard to see why devs would prefer the PS5 tbh.

The SeX has a GPU advantage, however:
1) The GPU advantage is 15%, aboit half of that this gen, and with no weird RAM shenanigans
2) The difference is virtually nonexistent when applied to resolution (https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/mobile/folders/1nZAF1kWhvAu3bZKbRZIKYIP0llf7nLIA?usp=drive_open)
3) Fully achieving that peak performance might be harder given the higher number of CUs you have to fill with useful work

By contrast, the PS5 has a markedly better SSD solution, and technology seems to be moving towards making use of faster and faster storage + i/o access.
 

geordiemp

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You must've been visiting another board by mistake.

Before the specs reveal all the hot mail was that the PS5 was going to be more powerful than the Series X, likely 13tf plus. We had pigeons and verified developers hinting about puberty. It was a golden age.

In that period teraflops were the only thing worth discussing.

Then the storm clouds. When it became apparent that the PS5 was, at best, 10.2 teraflops and less powerful than the Series X, there was a brief period of relative quiet as most of the forum went into mourning (while quietly working out a new narrative).

Then, guess what?

Well, you'll be amazed, but it turns out that teraflops, GPU and CPU power have no bearing on console performance at all! Only the SSD and I/O specs matter and what's more, everyone knew it all along!

It's a miracle!
I remember the rumour was Ps5 was praised and powerful, but very few could understand why at less Tflops, how can it be powerful with dat TF ?

Its taken a long time for people to realise its a bit more complex than that. :messenger_beaming:

The realisation point was the UE5 demo blowing eveything out of the water at 1440p, but but native 4K but but terraflops....It was and still is a mental problem for those who dont understand computing, even today.

In reality nothing has changed since Cernys road to Ps5 except a little education, and many had to go back and rewatch what cerny said about fast small triangles and latency / speed approach.

The next lesson starts on Thursday.
 
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GRIEVEZ

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Imagine if the PS5 show doesn't go ahead on June 4th, nothing happens and no word is given, people speculate wildly as whats "gone wrong". Then we get to July and there is no Xbox showing, we all start to get antsy and really worried that nothing is coming or something terrible has happened behind the scenes to both companies and then in August its revealed:

"The Playstation Series Xbox 5X"



FUSION!

Then we could stop all this pointless willy-waving.
Dont kid yourself, we'd all devolve to attacking Nintendo fans. :lollipop_worried:
 

noise36

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If teraflops is all that mattered why wouldn't Sony simply go the MS way?
Same reason they don't compete with game pass, they don't have to as they are the market leader and profitable.

Same reason Apple with the exception in of their SOC, doesn't compete with Samsung on raw hardware specs.
 
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oldergamer

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It's not hard to see why devs would prefer the PS5 tbh.

The SeX has a GPU advantage, however:
1) The GPU advantage is 15%, aboit half of that this gen, and with no weird RAM shenanigans
2) The difference is virtually nonexistent when applied to resolution (https://drive.google.com/drive/u/0/mobile/folders/1nZAF1kWhvAu3bZKbRZIKYIP0llf7nLIA?usp=drive_open)
3) Fully achieving that peak performance might be harder given the higher number of CUs you have to fill with useful work
A lot of what you wrote is incorrect.

1. Sex has an advantage in both GPU features and performance. in some cases it will be a lot more then 15%
2. That does prove anything.
3. That's not true at all.
 

megreotsugua

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I m assuming you have some knowledge on this subject . I was talking to someone with knowledge Of both dev kits and they mentioned XSX speed is not the issue but rather the latency.

Anyways XSX wil have 10 to 15% better resolution due to CU count. PS5 might have more detailed scene as it can stream many assets very quickly and with no latency
I wish I have inside knowledge.

My only basis is the official loading demo for xsex which doesn't really inspire confidence. That 11-second loading shows that there are bottlenecks in the system. While Cerny is touting a second of boot time and no loading screens.

If I'm not playing fanboy on forums, I always say that I'll give MS the benefit of the doubt in regard to their I/O. But more and more info are surfacing that the PS5 I/O is really untouchable and it's not just a matter of 2x the raw of speed of xsex. So I'm guessing it's the issue of latency.
 
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megreotsugua

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I’m throwing in the towel. Sorry Xbros, PS5 is just more exciting to me. Don’t care about the slight resolution advantage for XSX. Rich, detailed worlds is what I long for. I will also feast on Sony’s PS4 favorites that I’ve missed, on the cheap!
There's a youtuber who calls himself an xbox traitor playing a lot of PS4 games lately. He has a wild hair and a glottal T accent.
 
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ZywyPL

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Yes, consoles are exactly the same as pcs.
Well, except for the unified memory that pcs don't have, the lack of cpu<->gpu latency since they are in the same chip, the direct access to the SSD and lack of ssd virtualization for legacy programs (that need to see a ssd as a HDD) and the much smaller overhead since the OS is designed for gaming and for the fixed hardware and the APIs are also made for the fixed hardware (directx is bloated with useless stuff on pc).

PCs are probably the most inelegant solution for gaming, since only GPUs are made for that purpose, everything else is general purpose. Brute force and ability to change hardware parts is really the reason why PCs get better results, but at a much higher cost.
While everything above is true (more or less), it hasn't been an issue over the past half a century to make games running on PCs, with as you said, even better results.
 

Ar¢tos

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While everything above is true (more or less), it hasn't been an issue over the past half a century to make games running on PCs, with as you said, even better results.
It is an issue depending income. Not all of us are drug dealers that can afford to upgrade pc parts every 3 months.
 
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Ass of Can Whooping

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I only can go on the specific features announced for the Xbox that have not been announced for PS5 as of yet. Why, what are you using to assume feature parity?
So nothing then. It's just baseless assumption

If you're going to tell someone they're wrong, you should come with evidence. Just a life tip
 
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oldergamer

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So nothing then. It's just baseless assumption

If you're going to tell someone they're wrong, you should come with evidence. Just a life tip
You're full of it. It's not an assumption on my part. MS announced specific GPU features that Sony hasn't. You're assuming they have feature parity, while i'm going by what was announced. if i'm wrong, then where is your proof?
 

Ass of Can Whooping

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You're full of it. It's not an assumption on my part. MS announced specific GPU features that Sony hasn't. You're assuming they have feature parity, while i'm going by what was announced. if i'm wrong, then where is your proof?
The Xbox Series X has the better cooling solution

Sony hasn't actually revealed what their cooling solution is, but I know the SX is better because reasons

Do you see how dumb your argument is now?
 
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Thirty7ven

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Neither does the poster he is answering to. Who makes a claim carries the burden of proof.
Oldergamer did claim it, therefore he must prove it. But he can't, because he's another fan fiction writer.

The poster he answered to spoke to a 15% difference in TFLOPS, which is a mathematical conclusion.
 
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kuncol02

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I wish I have inside knowledge.

My only basis is the official loading demo for xsex which doesn't really inspire confidence. That 11-second loading shows that there are bottlenecks in the system. While Cerny is touting a second of boot time and no loading screens.

If I'm not playing fanboy on forums, I always say that I'll give MS the benefit of the doubt in regard to their I/O. But more and more info are surfacing that the PS5 I/O is really untouchable and it's not just a matter of 2x the raw of speed of xsex. So I'm guessing it's the issue of latency.
There was no such thing as "official loading demo for xsex" they only shown how BC title works on it.
 

geordiemp

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hahaha, my claim is based on what has been revealed so far. Your claim is based on "feelings"?
Whats been revealed so far is the most technically advanced gameplay so far on console, UE5 using 8 k assets / culling / partial geometries and very advanced rendering way in advance of anything else shown or discussed.

Is it using VRS, or PRT+ or Geometry engine ++++ , mesh shaders, primative shaders, penis shaders, BFG fucking light saber...lol, it does not exist until it has a name ?

Who has the best name for the same shit ? - its rendering allot small traingles AND only what you can see, lets create a thousand buzzwords because it sounds cool..

Sony has the most advanced proven set of features that has been shown and blown everyone away.

MS counters it with buzzwords and PR. You are doing the same....its getting old fast.

Show dont tell, show us.

And no cut and pasting DX12 road maps, its crap. Show us.
 
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Redlight

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Whats been revealed so far is the most technically advanced gameplay so far on console, UE5 using 8 k assets / culling / partial geometries and very advanced rendering way in advance of anything else shown or discussed.
Let's not fudge this all important detail; it was a playable tech demo, not actual gameplay. There is a massive difference. That slice is not part of any upcoming release, you'll never be able to 'play' it outside of that demo.

Also, if it were a game, it would also be available on Series X where it would, according to it's creator, be 'awesome'.
 

Psykodad

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Only 3 more days until we can get past this nonsense and people will need to roll back their tongues into their mouths once their jaws dropped.

The power advantage that XSX has will be meaningless once both consoles launch, since one will come out of the gate swinging and the other will leave people hanging.
 
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geordiemp

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Let's not fudge this all important detail; it was a playable tech demo, not actual gameplay. There is a massive difference. That slice is not part of any upcoming release, you'll never be able to 'play' it outside of that demo.

Also, if it were a game, it would also be available on Series X where it would, according to it's creator, be 'awesome'.
A demo shows the technical ability that was interactive with a character you could control, Does that invalidate the technology and ability - thats braindead stupidity.

That is a hilarous reposte, look the rendering technology does not work because they did not shoot anyone.

FFS its like N4G sometimes.
 
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oldergamer

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The Xbox Series X has the better cooling solution

Sony hasn't actually revealed what their cooling solution is, but I know the SX is better because reasons

Do you see how dumb your argument is now?
See you can't provide any proof!

So you assume its a better cooling solution based on what again??? Do you see what you are doing?

Its a classic double standard. This pretty much sums it up here:
What I'm getting from your replies is...

I can assume whatever i want for sony if its good without any proof, but you have to ignore what's been announced for MS and can't assume anything they have is better.

or

Assume parity or better if its Sony, but assume there is no parity or its worse if its MS.

That is pathetic....
 

oldergamer

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Whats been revealed so far is the most technically advanced gameplay so far on console, UE5 using 8 k assets / culling / partial geometries and very advanced rendering way in advance of anything else shown or discussed.
Sony has the most advanced proven set of features until MS can counter it with anything other than buzzords and PR.
How has sony proven anything until they show actual games?? You're excited for gameplay on a tech demo that will not turn into a game (as pretty as it was) Show some consistency in your trolling guys.
 
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Redlight

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A demo shows the technical ability that was interactive with a character you could control, Does that invalidate the technology and ability - thats braindead stupidity.

That is a hilarous reposte, look the rendering technology does not work because they did not shoot anyone.

FFS its like N4G sometimes.
Every word I said in my original post is true. That's why you're so annoyed.
 

Ass of Can Whooping

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See you can't provide any proof!

So you assume its a better cooling solution based on what again??? Do you see what you are doing?

Its a classic double standard. This pretty much sums it up here:
What I'm getting from your replies is...

I can assume whatever i want for sony if its good without any proof, but you have to ignore what's been announced for MS and can't assume anything they have is better.

or

Assume parity or better if its Sony, but assume there is no parity or its worse if its MS.

That is pathetic....
Apologies I thought you were somewhat intelligent enough to notice such an obvious hypothetical

You're using the fact that Microsoft has revealed more about the console as definitive evidence that they have more features

How do you not understand the illogicality in that? You're not going to claim that either one is going to have more launch exclusives than the other until they both actually announce their games are you?

I don't need to provide evidence of anything because I'm not making that claim. YOU are.
 
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geordiemp

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Every word I said in my original post is true. That's why you're so annoyed.
Your comprehension of the difference between appriasal of rendering technology and does it shoot things is frustrating yes, its like being back at school.

I have work to do man,.
 

SleepDoctor

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How has sony proven anything until they show actual games?? You're excited for gameplay on a tech demo that will not turn into a game (as pretty as it was) Show some consistency in your trolling guys.

You're wasting your time. This guy even claimed the ps5 spiderman demo was spiderman swinging through the city, when it was just the camera zooming through the city. Everyone is an "insider" or "engineer" now lol.

Fact is they just need some kind of reassurance everyday that their ssd is a godsend. They're doing sonys marketing for them if you really look at it lol.